The most difficult part of home automation is a lack of state mandated enforcement of the International, never mind State subset of, Construction standards.
Idaho is a complete joke run by non-bonded and licensed hacks doing home construction, never mind commercial.
Washington State is all licensed and bonded, but having worked closely with some contractors [on the job] they all cut corners, over charge the consumer which resulted in myself as a mechanical engineer helping family out into a heated series of arguments.
The inspectors are morons who easily get bribed.
With rare exception, even all new home construction does not meet the R factor insulation requirements, the proper treated timber, the minimum foundation requirements in WA and northern climates, to the correct span between 2 x 6, etc.
Automating poorly constructed homes is a nightmare.
The commercial industry is the only space worth investigating and Honeywell is king in the US.
I can attest to this. Every time I have to go into some previously unexplored area of my home built in 2006, I seem to find more stuff the "inspector" missed. Insulation on the very outside sections of our master bedroom had only a light dusting of blown-in insulation, they shoved fiberglass insulation at the lowest points of the roof between the trusses that blocked the air flow from the soffits intakes to the peak vents, and blown-in insulation covering the soffit intakes. This was only discovered two weekends ago when I was up there moving blown in insulation to install batts. I can't tell you how many of the structured wiring pulls they installed didn't work due to either (1) bad end point termination or (2) most likely being damaged by drywall screws, nails or other fasteners. I found a number when I first moved in and simply tested them with my cable tester. Why couldn't they do this? Right, they could, but they didn't give enough of a crap. We've been lucky in that we haven't seemed to have had any major things that I've found ... yet.
I wish I'd been able to buy during the construction process so I could have installed low voltage conduit, security wiring and other infrastructure myself, but that wasn't in the cards at the time so I am now trying to retrofit which is a giant pain. I hate whomever came up with the idea of blown-in insulation, had to be an installer as after that initial step, it's a nightmare.
Ha! When we moved to Tucson (circa 1991) we bought a 3-4 year old Del Web Townhouse. This was [mostly] well-built, well-insulated 2300 square 3 BR 3 Bath. It had solar water heating and instant hot water...
The solar never worked right (wrong size collector and poor installation). The worst, though, was the instant hot water -- it was the kind that used a small (efficient) pump to continuously recirculate the hot water to all the taps in the house. But they really dropped the ball -- the water was recirculated through uninsulated copper tubing embedded in the slab, We ran the system for a month and it cost about $50 (1991 dollars). Quickly turned that off...
The other thing was a no-no: You don't embed copper tubing in a concrete slab -- a chemical reaction will cause the copper to deteriorate.
On the other hand, an architect friend designed and built his own home with an [exposed, colored] insulated concrete slab with embedded plastic tubing for radiant heating -- done right, it was inexpensive and energy-efficient.
The guy is credited [most jointly with others] 73 in the US.
In fact, every single patent he's got his name on it along with actual engineers, so no he hasn't authored more than 300, never mind 73, but he has gone on the ride and helped shape 73 in the US, all but 14 of those patents working at Apple where 3-12 other engineers names are stamped on every one.
Ironically, the vast majority of his patents are on plugin adaptor interfacing. Big fucking deal.
And Nest products are designed by a design consultancy firm yet the media is treating this as though Google bought Dieter Rams.
Ha! When we moved to Tucson (circa 1991) we bought a 3-4 year old Del Web Townhouse. This was [mostly] well-built, well-insulated 2300 square 3 BR 3 Bath. It had solar water heating and instant hot water...
The solar never worked right (wrong size collector and poor installation). The worst, though, was the instant hot water -- it was the kind that used a small (efficient) pump to continuously recirculate the hot water to all the taps in the house. But they really dropped the ball -- the water was recirculated through uninsulated copper tubing embedded in the slab, We ran the system for a month and it cost about $50 (1991 dollars). Quickly turned that off...
The other thing was a no-no: You don't embed copper tubing in a concrete slab -- a chemical reaction will cause the copper to deteriorate.
On the other hand, an architect friend designed and built his own home with an [exposed, colored] insulated concrete slab with embedded plastic tubing for radiant heating -- done right, it was inexpensive and energy-efficient.
I may make the move to Colorado in 5 years or so and the lady and I have chatted about what we want in our home. Luckily she has family in the construction biz (GC) who are doing their home right now in Loveland CO I believe. We're hoping we can build new construction or heavily remodel with their help. We know we need a GC that will ensure the work is done correctly. I'm also reading up more about LEED construction. We want to be Green where it makes sense. Lighting and Networking is really important to me and heating/cooling is important to her.
Our Issaquah Town-home is going to be the testbed for now. I'm thinking of adding more Hue bulbs and testing out some cameras and sensors on windows and doors. Next home will probably have motorized shades, Solar panels, water treatment and more. 5 years from now the technology is going to make 2014 look like Playschool stuff and hopefully Apple will have some solid OS support.
Nest owes a lot of it's attention to the fact that Fadell and Rogers were ex Apple Execs. If they don't have that as a marketing piece the road they travel becomes much harder.
Nests technology is great but don't fool yourself into thinking that there isn't competition.
2) Did you know there is a 4th monkey that coincidentally uses a principle that is nearly identical to Google's motto?
"The three monkeys are Mizaru, covering his eyes, who sees no evil; Kikazaru, covering his ears, who hears no evil; and Iwazaru, covering his mouth, who speaks no evil. Sometimes there is a fourth monkey depicted with the three others; the last one, Shizaru, symbolizes the principle of "do no evil". He may be shown crossing his arms or covering his genitals."
This is like saying the original iPhone was just another smartphone. If Nest is not-so-special, why are their sales taking off?
Firstly the Nest product was done very well. Secondly they chose a classic design Round. Those of us kids of the 60s and 70s remember the round Honeywells Thermostats very well. Thirdly they knocked it out of the park with simplicity. Thermostats where right up there with VCR flashing 12:00 on their clocks with regard to lack of decent UI/UX.
Look at the Eversense from Allure Energy. It's a bit overdone in features but they've got 5 patents on proximity features alone with more pending. The Centralite Pearl looks good as well and integrates into HA environments. I'm not saying Nest doesn't deserve it. They made the Thermostat something that could be a feature in your home and save you money. Honeywell isn't going to put that much attention into their Thermostat line.
I'm thrilled that there's this much excitement around home energy products but the notion that Apple missed out on buying nest for Billions makes absolutely no sense because Apple doesn't care about datamining so Nests cloud data is of no particular value to them. I don't see Apple making hardware. I see them facilitating HA via strong links into OS X and iOS and letting the market deliver the standout products. Apple doesn't make Airplays speakers and that's fine because there are a lot of offerings in this area.
It's a TV show on BBC that has been on for about a decade now. If you enjoy comedy and unusual facts you'll likely enjoy the show. I think most episodes are on YouTube.
In facts, funny that one of my Nest stopped working few days before the acquisition announcement... It must somehow have discovered it would soon be referred to as a droid heat control and ad delivery appliance, and have decided to self sabotage. I shall respect that and not try to fix it. Or I should do it quickly before groogle support geek squad takes over...
Google also is now firmly in the internet of things / smart house game. They are making a bet that this is the next big thing.
I was just reading today that Cisco did a study about the Internet of Everything. Their analysis indicates it will be worth $19 trillion to companies involved in the movement. Google is smart to get on board. Apple isn't interested because there is no "premium" or "high-end" to the Internet of Everything. This is not to say that Apple devices won't connect to the IoE - they surely will. Apple just doesn't want to make Internet connected trash cans or toasters.
Firstly the Nest product was done very well. Secondly they chose a classic design Round. Those of us kids of the 60s and 70s remember the round Honeywells Thermostats very well. Thirdly they knocked it out of the park with simplicity. Thermostats where right up there with VCR flashing 12:00 on their clocks with regard to lack of decent UI/UX.
Look at the Eversense from Allure Energy. It's a bit overdone in features but they've got 5 patents on proximity features alone with more pending. The Centralite Pearl looks good as well and integrates into HA environments. I'm not saying Nest doesn't deserve it. They made the Thermostat something that could be a feature in your home and save you money. Honeywell isn't going to put that much attention into their Thermostat line.
I'm thrilled that there's this much excitement around home energy products but the notion that Apple missed out on buying nest for Billions makes absolutely no sense because Apple doesn't care about datamining so Nests cloud data is of no particular value to them. I don't see Apple making hardware. I see them facilitating HA via strong links into OS X and iOS and letting the market deliver the standout products. Apple doesn't make Airplays speakers and that's fine because there are a lot of offerings in this area.
Nest didn't make the thermostat. They provided a design for one that embodied the past with a digital UI of the present and a soft blue already done many times over, while syncing easily to an iOS platform.
Ha! When we moved to Tucson (circa 1991) we bought a 3-4 year old Del Web Townhouse. This was [mostly] well-built, well-insulated 2300 square 3 BR 3 Bath. It had solar water heating and instant hot water...
The solar never worked right (wrong size collector and poor installation). The worst, though, was the instant hot water -- it was the kind that used a small (efficient) pump to continuously recirculate the hot water to all the taps in the house. But they really dropped the ball -- the water was recirculated through uninsulated copper tubing embedded in the slab, We ran the system for a month and it cost about $50 (1991 dollars). Quickly turned that off...
The other thing was a no-no: You don't embed copper tubing in a concrete slab -- a chemical reaction will cause the copper to deteriorate.
On the other hand, an architect friend designed and built his own home with an [exposed, colored] insulated concrete slab with embedded plastic tubing for radiant heating -- done right, it was inexpensive and energy-efficient.
Comments
Ha! When we moved to Tucson (circa 1991) we bought a 3-4 year old Del Web Townhouse. This was [mostly] well-built, well-insulated 2300 square 3 BR 3 Bath. It had solar water heating and instant hot water...
The solar never worked right (wrong size collector and poor installation). The worst, though, was the instant hot water -- it was the kind that used a small (efficient) pump to continuously recirculate the hot water to all the taps in the house. But they really dropped the ball -- the water was recirculated through uninsulated copper tubing embedded in the slab, We ran the system for a month and it cost about $50 (1991 dollars). Quickly turned that off...
The other thing was a no-no: You don't embed copper tubing in a concrete slab -- a chemical reaction will cause the copper to deteriorate.
On the other hand, an architect friend designed and built his own home with an [exposed, colored] insulated concrete slab with embedded plastic tubing for radiant heating -- done right, it was inexpensive and energy-efficient.
Ha! When we moved to Tucson (circa 1991) we bought a 3-4 year old Del Web Townhouse. This was [mostly] well-built, well-insulated 2300 square 3 BR 3 Bath. It had solar water heating and instant hot water...
The solar never worked right (wrong size collector and poor installation). The worst, though, was the instant hot water -- it was the kind that used a small (efficient) pump to continuously recirculate the hot water to all the taps in the house. But they really dropped the ball -- the water was recirculated through uninsulated copper tubing embedded in the slab, We ran the system for a month and it cost about $50 (1991 dollars). Quickly turned that off...
The other thing was a no-no: You don't embed copper tubing in a concrete slab -- a chemical reaction will cause the copper to deteriorate.
On the other hand, an architect friend designed and built his own home with an [exposed, colored] insulated concrete slab with embedded plastic tubing for radiant heating -- done right, it was inexpensive and energy-efficient.
I may make the move to Colorado in 5 years or so and the lady and I have chatted about what we want in our home. Luckily she has family in the construction biz (GC) who are doing their home right now in Loveland CO I believe. We're hoping we can build new construction or heavily remodel with their help. We know we need a GC that will ensure the work is done correctly. I'm also reading up more about LEED construction. We want to be Green where it makes sense. Lighting and Networking is really important to me and heating/cooling is important to her.
Our Issaquah Town-home is going to be the testbed for now. I'm thinking of adding more Hue bulbs and testing out some cameras and sensors on windows and doors. Next home will probably have motorized shades, Solar panels, water treatment and more. 5 years from now the technology is going to make 2014 look like Playschool stuff and hopefully Apple will have some solid OS support.
Nest owes a lot of it's attention to the fact that Fadell and Rogers were ex Apple Execs. If they don't have that as a marketing piece the road they travel becomes much harder.
Nests technology is great but don't fool yourself into thinking that there isn't competition.
Netatmo Therm - Neatly ties in to their weather station
Centralite Pearl Therm - Will be using Zigbee Home Automation 1.2
Tado Therm - UK's best shot at a Nest competitor
Honeywell Prestige Therm - Can't count these guys out
Allure Energy Eversense Therm - supports iBeacon/NFC modules for the room.
Apple doesn't need to pay a billion dollars for product they don't need. Apple's likely not going to play the hardware
game. If I'm a betting man I'd say that they will align with either Zigbee or Z Wave or both. They will probably abstract
them enough to add some proprietary features for OS X/iOS in an Apple Framework for devs to write against that ads a
bit more Wow Factor than what Zigbee or Z Wave provides.
If Apple were to acquire a company it'd probably be Polish based Fibaro. Their product design is more Apple than anyone.
This is like saying the original iPhone was just another smartphone. If Nest is not-so-special, why are their sales taking off?
1) Did you know they have names?
2) Did you know there is a 4th monkey that coincidentally uses a principle that is nearly identical to Google's motto?
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys
This is like saying the original iPhone was just another smartphone. If Nest is not-so-special, why are their sales taking off?
Firstly the Nest product was done very well. Secondly they chose a classic design Round. Those of us kids of the 60s and 70s remember the round Honeywells Thermostats very well. Thirdly they knocked it out of the park with simplicity. Thermostats where right up there with VCR flashing 12:00 on their clocks with regard to lack of decent UI/UX.
Look at the Eversense from Allure Energy. It's a bit overdone in features but they've got 5 patents on proximity features alone with more pending. The Centralite Pearl looks good as well and integrates into HA environments. I'm not saying Nest doesn't deserve it. They made the Thermostat something that could be a feature in your home and save you money. Honeywell isn't going to put that much attention into their Thermostat line.
I'm thrilled that there's this much excitement around home energy products but the notion that Apple missed out on buying nest for Billions makes absolutely no sense because Apple doesn't care about datamining so Nests cloud data is of no particular value to them. I don't see Apple making hardware. I see them facilitating HA via strong links into OS X and iOS and letting the market deliver the standout products. Apple doesn't make Airplays speakers and that's fine because there are a lot of offerings in this area.
It’s terrifying how apropos that is, particularly when you think of the word ‘google’ out of context.
1) Did you know they have names?
Wow! I didn't know. I mean the 4th one. Thank you for very informative and interesting post.
I only found out this past weakend on the latest episode of QI.
I only found out this past weakend on the latest episode of QI.
That seems to be a super cool site.
It's a TV show on BBC that has been on for about a decade now. If you enjoy comedy and unusual facts you'll likely enjoy the show. I think most episodes are on YouTube.
Worth reading, particularly since Ars is generally pretty even handed.
I'd wager you'd drop your pants and bend over in front of Schmidt, for a LOT less then a billion...
Who me ? Yes right, I would, for much less than that, why ? Do you have some savings to blow ?
But this is Tony we are talking about, I thought that by founding Nest he had a much greater vision in mind than ultimately selling it to google...
So disappointed...
In facts, funny that one of my Nest stopped working few days before the acquisition announcement... It must somehow have discovered it would soon be referred to as a droid heat control and ad delivery appliance, and have decided to self sabotage. I shall respect that and not try to fix it. Or I should do it quickly before groogle support geek squad takes over...
Thanks for the link, that’s going on my RSS feed.
Edit: seems like it can't be added
Google also is now firmly in the internet of things / smart house game. They are making a bet that this is the next big thing.
I was just reading today that Cisco did a study about the Internet of Everything. Their analysis indicates it will be worth $19 trillion to companies involved in the movement. Google is smart to get on board. Apple isn't interested because there is no "premium" or "high-end" to the Internet of Everything. This is not to say that Apple devices won't connect to the IoE - they surely will. Apple just doesn't want to make Internet connected trash cans or toasters.
Firstly the Nest product was done very well. Secondly they chose a classic design Round. Those of us kids of the 60s and 70s remember the round Honeywells Thermostats very well. Thirdly they knocked it out of the park with simplicity. Thermostats where right up there with VCR flashing 12:00 on their clocks with regard to lack of decent UI/UX.
Look at the Eversense from Allure Energy. It's a bit overdone in features but they've got 5 patents on proximity features alone with more pending. The Centralite Pearl looks good as well and integrates into HA environments. I'm not saying Nest doesn't deserve it. They made the Thermostat something that could be a feature in your home and save you money. Honeywell isn't going to put that much attention into their Thermostat line.
I'm thrilled that there's this much excitement around home energy products but the notion that Apple missed out on buying nest for Billions makes absolutely no sense because Apple doesn't care about datamining so Nests cloud data is of no particular value to them. I don't see Apple making hardware. I see them facilitating HA via strong links into OS X and iOS and letting the market deliver the standout products. Apple doesn't make Airplays speakers and that's fine because there are a lot of offerings in this area.
Nest didn't make the thermostat. They provided a design for one that embodied the past with a digital UI of the present and a soft blue already done many times over, while syncing easily to an iOS platform.
Ha! When we moved to Tucson (circa 1991) we bought a 3-4 year old Del Web Townhouse. This was [mostly] well-built, well-insulated 2300 square 3 BR 3 Bath. It had solar water heating and instant hot water...
The solar never worked right (wrong size collector and poor installation). The worst, though, was the instant hot water -- it was the kind that used a small (efficient) pump to continuously recirculate the hot water to all the taps in the house. But they really dropped the ball -- the water was recirculated through uninsulated copper tubing embedded in the slab, We ran the system for a month and it cost about $50 (1991 dollars). Quickly turned that off...
The other thing was a no-no: You don't embed copper tubing in a concrete slab -- a chemical reaction will cause the copper to deteriorate.
On the other hand, an architect friend designed and built his own home with an [exposed, colored] insulated concrete slab with embedded plastic tubing for radiant heating -- done right, it was inexpensive and energy-efficient.
Isn't it amazing how lime reacts with copper?