Apple agrees to pay $32.5M in refunds, settling App Store in-app purchase lawsuit with US government

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  • Reply 61 of 101
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

    Because the poster said "don't give the kids the iPhone". Seems pretty clear why Apple would prefer parents not resort to that.

     

    I suppose they’d prefer endless lawsuits born of stupidity, huh.

  • Reply 62 of 101
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    I suppose they’d prefer endless lawsuits born of stupidity, huh.

    You normally think a bit bigger than that.
  • Reply 63 of 101
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

    You normally think a bit bigger than that.

     

    I just prefer the concept of parents parenting. That appeals to me in the same way that responsibility for one’s actions does.

  • Reply 64 of 101
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    I just prefer the concept of parents parenting. That appeals to me in the same way that responsibility for one’s actions does.

    Did ever make a accidental long distance call as a kid? I remember one time my brother called a guy in Wales.
  • Reply 65 of 101
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    Did ever make a accidental long distance call as a kid?

     

    I don’t recall these kids accidentally buying things. Accidents and purposeful action are handled differently.

     

    I remember one time my brother called a guy in Wales. 


     

    That’s punishment in and of itself. HI-YO!

    Sorry, Wales.

  • Reply 66 of 101
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    I don’t recall ...

    Not my native language, but isn't it 'redial'? Sorry, stupid mood ATM
  • Reply 67 of 101
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    lkrupp wrote: »
    So when does Google have to pay up for the same thing in the Google app store? Or, like the Chinese labor flaps, only Apple does this and gets sued?

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/01/google-play-store-lets-your-kid-spend-like-a-drunken-sailor/index.htm
  • Reply 68 of 101
    Maybe parents should learn how to use the setting that are already on the phone before handing over their devices to their 3 year olds.
  • Reply 69 of 101
    The problem is the DEFAULT setting! There should be a prompt when setting this phone up that asks if minors will have access to the phone. If answered yes, default the settings to In-App = Off and Password = Immediately. Or at least ask these two questions and explain them.

    Let the parent research online how to "fix" the issue if the new default values are bothering them and be well aware of the change they are making.

    Apple is refusing to do this as it obviously would destroy the entire free-to-play market that they profit on today.
  • Reply 70 of 101
    Originally Posted by BrettF View Post

    The problem is the DEFAULT setting!

     

    No, it isn’t.

     

    There should be a prompt when setting this phone up that asks if minors will have access to the phone.


     

    No, there shouldn’t. That’s the absolute wrong thing to do.

     

    Or at least ask these two questions and explain them.


     

    It’s not Apple’s responsibility to educate idiots. There is no reason for them to hold people’s hands.

     

    Apple is refusing to do this as it obviously would destroy the entire free-to-play market that they profit on today. 


     

    Right, wrong.

  • Reply 71 of 101
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    brettf wrote: »
    The problem is the DEFAULT setting! There should be a prompt when setting this phone up that asks if minors will have access to the phone. If answered yes, default the settings to In-App = Off and Password = Immediately. Or at least ask these two questions and explain them.

    Let the parent research online how to "fix" the issue if the new default values are bothering them and be well aware of the change they are making.

    Apple is refusing to do this as it obviously would destroy the entire free-to-play market that they profit on today.

    Just like child safety locks should be enable by default on vehicles, right? And TV controls on by default, right?

    If you are too lazy to thumb through the settings on a new device, God help your child.
  • Reply 72 of 101
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    It’s not Apple’s responsibility to educate idiots. There is no reason for them to hold people’s hands.


    You morons are looking at this from the wrong point of view.  Its not "idiot" parents, but "uneducated" parents.  These parents had no idea that these games even had these capabilities.  Apple made no effort to make them aware of this during the original sales transaction.  A little blame can be put on the lazy parents for not being more involved and testing the games before handing them to their children.  That said, the concept as a whole was completely foreign to them.

     

    Furthermore, Apple does not advertise the "15 minute" rule.  If a parent was only purchasing a handful of games or apps, they might have been prompted every time they entered a password.  Why would it be wrong for this parent to also assume they would be prompted every time they made a purchase going forward?

     

    My argument is these issues could be avoided if they would go with an "opt-in" instead of "opt-out" approach.

  • Reply 73 of 101
    Originally Posted by BrettF View Post

    Its not "idiot" parents, but "uneducated" parents.

     

    Then they can educate themselves. All the information they need is right there on the device.

     

    These parents had no idea that these games even had these capabilities.


     

    Then. they. can. educate. themselves.

     

    It’s not Steven Spielberg’s fault when parents let their five year old watch Jurassic Park without having seen it themselves.

     

    Apple made no effort to make them aware of this during the original sales transaction.


     

    Nor do they have to. Nor should they.

     

    My argument is these issues could be avoided if they would go with an "opt-in" instead of "opt-out" approach. 


     

    And that will never happen.

  • Reply 74 of 101
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    Just like child safety locks should be enable by default on vehicles, right? And TV controls on by default, right?



    If you are too lazy to thumb through the settings on a new device, God help your child.

     

    Knowing about "Child safety locks" is a reasonable expectation.  Realizing that free games can charge real money, and furthermore without a password within 15 minutes is far from the gray area.

     

    An iPhone is not marketed to just tech nerds, its market towards everyday parents.  If this was some Linux based nerd gadget I would agree here, but this is a phone aimed at the common person.  You have to be more reasonable in your expectations if you don't intend to educate them.

  • Reply 75 of 101
    Originally Posted by BrettF View Post

    Knowing about Child safety locks" is a reasonable expectation.


     

    Inherently knowing how to operate them, however, is not. They’re not the same across vehicles.

     

    So you consult the manual. Piece of cake.

  • Reply 76 of 101
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    It’s not Steven Spielberg’s fault when parents let their five year old watch Jurassic Park without having seen it themselves.


    In every trailer I have ever seen for Jurassic Park it makes it clear with the MPAA rating at the beginning that the movie is not intended for children.  I don't recall that same rating being attached to "Smurfs Village"?

  • Reply 77 of 101
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Inherently knowing how to operate them, however, is not. They’re not the same across vehicles.

     

    So you consult the manual. Piece of cake.


    Your missing the point.  I am not saying they shouldn't understand how to consult a manual.  I am saying they had no reasonable expectation that such a feature existed in the first place.  If they never made an in app purchase themselves, its fair to assume they weren't aware of the feature.

     

    The owner / parent has open doors in a car before, they can assume the child will do the same and should look into preventing it.

  • Reply 78 of 101
    Originally Posted by BrettF View Post

    I don't recall that same rating being attached to "Smurfs Village"?

     

    Because that would be a lie.

     

    Originally Posted by BrettF View Post

    Your missing the point.  I am not saying they shouldn't understand how to consult a manual.  I am saying they had no reasonable expectation that such a feature existed in the first place.  If they never made an in app purchase themselves, its fair to assume they weren't aware of the feature.

     

    So they teach themselves about the product before giving it to their child.

     

    With restrictions off, the child can view any pornography that doesn’t require Flash. I don’t see a lawsuit against Apple about that.

     

    Because there IS a reasonable expectation that restrictions exist. Therefore it is the parents’ responsibility to FIND said restrictions, ENABLE them, and learn about what they entail.

  • Reply 79 of 101
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Because that would be a lie.

     

     

    So they teach themselves about the product before giving it to their child.

     

    With restrictions off, the child can view any pornography that doesn’t require Flash. I don’t see a lawsuit against Apple about that.

     

    Because there IS a reasonable expectation that restrictions exist. Therefore it is the parents’ responsibility to FIND said restrictions, ENABLE them, and learn about what they entail.


     

    I am done with this conversation.  For whatever reason you seem obsessed with defending Apple, when you clearly have no concept of seeing the realty of the situation.

     

    If the parents don't know the feature exist, how can you expect them to research and teach themselves?!?  Why on earth you are assuming the common Joe would even think of such a concept "in app purchases" exist is beyond me.

     

    There is no lawsuit about porn, because any reasonable adult knows the possibility exist.  If it bothers them they can reasonable investigate and research how to prevent it.  You can't make the same assumption about in app purchases.  At the time the concept was entirely new.

     

    To clarify I am not arguing that the parents didn't reasonable know "restrictions" could be enabled, but rather that the feature of making purchases with real money within a free children's game existed.

  • Reply 80 of 101
    Originally Posted by BrettF View Post

    I am done with this conversation.


     

    Good.

     



    For whatever reason you seem obsessed with defending Apple, when you clearly have no concept of seeing the realty of the situation.



     

    Because there’s nothing wrong being done here. Because they already have everything in place that can be “reasonably expected” of them. Because your ideas are wrong.

     

    If the parents don't know the feature exist, how can you expect them to research and teach themselves?!?


     

    Do you have the slightest idea what research is? Holy crap.

     

    There is no lawsuit about porn, because any reasonable adult knows the possibility exist.


     

    Thanks for confirming that you were wrong and I was right.

     


    If it bothers them they can reasonable investigate and research how to prevent it.



     

    Except you JUST SAID THAT THEY CANNOT POSSIBLY DO THAT. Pick a side and stick with it.

     
    At the time the concept was entirely new.

     

    Nope. It’s a digital extension of a preexisting concept.

     

    To clarify I am not arguing that the parents didn't reasonable know "restrictions" could be enabled, but rather that the feature of making purchases with real money within a free children's game existed. 


     

    So. They. Find. Out. About. That.

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