Yeah I could see Apple introducing Bluetooth on the iBook. Also, the 16 MB vRAM seems like a sure thing because of Quartz Extreme, although I could see Apple using 32 MB vRAM in the iBook for Quartz Extreme as well. As long as the GPU wasn't as good as the Titanium's, it wouldn't tread on the Powerbook's specs, and it would mean optimal Quartz performance.
It's very difficult to imagine Apple offering ANY computers that do not optimally use Quartz Extreme at the time it is introduced with the next OS X update. That gives Apple until September to jack up the iBook's video chipset, but I think they'll do it before then since sales may suffer.
It's hard to say just how many people follow Apple to know that the current iBook is a piece of obsolete crap. Is it enough to affect sales, or are there simply not that many informed Mac users? I know plenty of Mac users who wouldn't even understand what the hell Quartz is after reading Apple's Jaguar page on the web.
The next iBook, I think, will come by MWNY at the very latest. Some features:
G4 on a 100 MHz system bus. Low end will be 550-600 MHz, high end will be 650-700 MHz.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
iBook may come on Tuesday, otherwise definitely by the second week of June. Check the status at <a href="http://www.powerbookcentral.com/mactracker/ibooktracker.shtml"; target="_blank">powerbookcentral.com</a> It's out of stock at Amazon, Apple, CompUSA, and only one model is in stock at Outpost.com, ClubMac, CDW. It's been like that for a week, maybe more. Unless there's some problem on the manufacturing end of it, I just can't see it lasting until MWNY.
I also can't see the iBook with a 650-700 MHz G4. It would kill the TiBook sales just as the iMac has killed the current PowerMac sales. Yes, the TiBook has some extra features but the processor matters most and the iBook has its own advantages such as size and durability. Also, the G4 would mean a fan and a fan would require changes to the internals and modification of the case. Most of all the reason it seems unlikely to me is because as a consumer it simply sounds too good to be true - "Save $600 over a TiBook for a comparable G4 processor in a more convenient and sturdy package." I'd expect an offer like that to require me to switch to a particularly bad long distance phone service.
<strong>IMO by the time MWSF rolls around (at the latest) the iBook will have a G4 & 32MB video card. It would be stupid for Apple to sell hardware that doesn't take full advantage of their OS. If the iBook isn't significantly updated around the time 10.2 ships this fall it's going to look really anemic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree : my bet : the new i book will have a G4 667 without the L3 cache (to give an advantage to the tibook) with radeon mobility chip in it (perhaps the older: the 7500 will be a nice surprise).
I agree : my bet : the new i book will have a G4 667 without the L3 cache (to give an advantage to the tibook) with radeon mobility chip in it (perhaps the older: the 7500 will be a nice surprise).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we need to keep in mind that the iBook was designed with a G3 in mind. much less power/heat than a G4. the Powerbook was designed with a G4 in mind. If the next ibook has a G4 we may see a case revamp as well
The next Sahara G3 will have 512KB on chip L2 cache running at full core speed, and several hardware improvements that mean 20-30% faster at the same processor speed on the same bus as older G3s, like the one currently being used.
Moreover, the next G3 (Sahara) will start at 700 mhz and scale to 1Ghz, and will use way less power than the current G3.
So: Smaller, much faster clock speeds, improved core, more L2 cache, very low power, and inexpensive...
I think the next iBook will be a G3.
At 700mhz, and faster per clock than previous G3s, it's not going to be 'slow'
At 700mhz, and faster per clock than previous G3s, it's not going to be 'slow'</strong><hr></blockquote>
not being slow means nothing. the fact remains that it is a generation behind the rest of Apple's line-up and it lacks altivec. the only that makes apple competitive in performance is altivec right now. without the iBook is not competitive performance wise.
I think we will have to wait for the rev after this upcoming one for a G4, improved case, screen, speakers, and bluetooth.
-Barto
EDIT/PS. Applenut, Apple has to keep component prices (ei memory and flat panels) under control, the iBook less powerful than the Powerbook, and keep the iBook a low power, cheap (ei G3... for the time being) consumer portable. Computers compete on usability, and with notebooks that means raw power is less important. Also, with Jaguar a RADEON card in an iBook mean the lack of AltiVec in G3s is less important, as Mac OS X will render faster and people don't buy iBooks for photoshop like a Powerbook.
<strong>Applenut...then please explain to me why the eMac and iMac have 32MB graphics smartarse.</strong><hr></blockquote>
eMac supports a higher resolution: 1280 by 960 and 1.) nVidia doesn't even sell a 16MB version and it would cripple the card. 2.) for gaming 3.) to be competitve
iMac CRT has 16MB rage 128
iMac LCD has a 32MB nVidia Geforce 2 Mx because 1.) nVidia doesn't even sell a 16MB version and it would cripple the card. 2.) for gaming 3.) to be competitve
The strong points of the iBook are low cost, small size, portability and long battery life. These dovetail with the characteristics of the G3. The iBook will not get a G4 till it has the same specs as the G3 (for power requirements and cost).
The sweet spot for an iBook would be a faster G3 (800MHz?), a 16MB equipped Radeon (to get some benefit from QE. Adding a faster HD would probably make the system run a lot snappier too.
I do wish they would knock off one pound or more from the total weight.
Why can't the iBook get a g4? 600/700 with no L3 cache along with the other obvious advantages of a TiBook over an iBook would be fine. Right? I really dont want to spend $3000 on my first laptop when I go away to school, but I dont want to get a g3!!!
Apple dropped a G4 in the iMac and eMac, and people were arguing that they were better suited for G3s. Not true. The iBook will get a G4 because Apple is phasing out the G3, and because Altivec is what apple is counting on to save them from the GHz gap.
And yes, the iBook will get a redesigned muthaboard to take the G4. It also will get a new video chipset that may require some fiddling with the muthaboard. If a G4 can fit in the smaller (thinner) Titanium, then it can fit in the iBook no problem. A fan is no big deal, most laptops have them anyways.
1. It is getting harder and harder to make to case for the G3. Apple can't promote the virtues of Altivec on the one hand and say it is unnecesarry on the other. Students like to play games in their spare time. Games are processor intensive. Power is an equasion that can't be completely ignored in the iBook.
2. The PB hinders the iBook from getting a 32MB vcard. It is bad enough for Apple to ship systems that don't take full advantage of Apple's key advantage, Altivec. Now they face the prospect of systems having not just one, but two major strikes against them, no Altivec and no QE. For marketing reasons alone, that prospect is a nighmare. They have got to go with one or the other.
As far as redesinging the case and adding a fan, it is time for those things anyway. A fan is inevidable. Power generates heat. Whenever they put a G4 in the iBook, it will need a fan. The good news is there are quiet solutions that they can take advantage of.
Given the choice between a low end G4 and a Radeon 32MB, I think the G4 is more likely. Then again, they have not yet contacted me to get my opinion on the next iBook specs. Oh well.
I can't quite figure out what Apple will try to do with the next iBook. I don't think they've had an actual speed increase or real specification bump since the middle of last year (last MWNY? I don't consider the 14.1" to be a spec upgrade), so they should get a decent bump now. I'd rather see 600-700 MHz G4 with a 32 MB video card (i.e. Geforce2 Go, that would match up with the iMacs Geforce2 MX), but I figure they may do something like 700-800MHz G3 with some 16MB video card, most likely an ATI Mobility Radeon.
They need do something, and soon because the education market needs to see some sort of move from Apple, and I don't think a lot of college students (myself included) want to see a mere 100 MHz bump, unless they moved to G4. I'd like to get an iBook soon, but they need to catch my eye with some substantial upgrade like they did with the Powerbook. What are the odds that they would do a 32MB video, but have a Geforce2 Go... would that be enough to differentiate the iBook from the Titanium? Also, when do you all think the next iBook will be announced? Perhaps as a surprise along the rackmounts on Tuesday, or some other event prior to MWNY, or at MWNY?
Comments
although I do think it will still realistically have a 16 mb graphic card and blue tooth.
It's very difficult to imagine Apple offering ANY computers that do not optimally use Quartz Extreme at the time it is introduced with the next OS X update. That gives Apple until September to jack up the iBook's video chipset, but I think they'll do it before then since sales may suffer.
It's hard to say just how many people follow Apple to know that the current iBook is a piece of obsolete crap. Is it enough to affect sales, or are there simply not that many informed Mac users? I know plenty of Mac users who wouldn't even understand what the hell Quartz is after reading Apple's Jaguar page on the web.
<strong>
The next iBook, I think, will come by MWNY at the very latest. Some features:
G4 on a 100 MHz system bus. Low end will be 550-600 MHz, high end will be 650-700 MHz.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
iBook may come on Tuesday, otherwise definitely by the second week of June. Check the status at <a href="http://www.powerbookcentral.com/mactracker/ibooktracker.shtml"; target="_blank">powerbookcentral.com</a> It's out of stock at Amazon, Apple, CompUSA, and only one model is in stock at Outpost.com, ClubMac, CDW. It's been like that for a week, maybe more. Unless there's some problem on the manufacturing end of it, I just can't see it lasting until MWNY.
I also can't see the iBook with a 650-700 MHz G4. It would kill the TiBook sales just as the iMac has killed the current PowerMac sales. Yes, the TiBook has some extra features but the processor matters most and the iBook has its own advantages such as size and durability. Also, the G4 would mean a fan and a fan would require changes to the internals and modification of the case. Most of all the reason it seems unlikely to me is because as a consumer it simply sounds too good to be true - "Save $600 over a TiBook for a comparable G4 processor in a more convenient and sturdy package." I'd expect an offer like that to require me to switch to a particularly bad long distance phone service.
<strong>IMO by the time MWSF rolls around (at the latest) the iBook will have a G4 & 32MB video card. It would be stupid for Apple to sell hardware that doesn't take full advantage of their OS. If the iBook isn't significantly updated around the time 10.2 ships this fall it's going to look really anemic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree : my bet : the new i book will have a G4 667 without the L3 cache (to give an advantage to the tibook) with radeon mobility chip in it (perhaps the older: the 7500 will be a nice surprise).
<strong>
I agree : my bet : the new i book will have a G4 667 without the L3 cache (to give an advantage to the tibook) with radeon mobility chip in it (perhaps the older: the 7500 will be a nice surprise).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we need to keep in mind that the iBook was designed with a G3 in mind. much less power/heat than a G4. the Powerbook was designed with a G4 in mind. If the next ibook has a G4 we may see a case revamp as well
Moreover, the next G3 (Sahara) will start at 700 mhz and scale to 1Ghz, and will use way less power than the current G3.
So: Smaller, much faster clock speeds, improved core, more L2 cache, very low power, and inexpensive...
I think the next iBook will be a G3.
At 700mhz, and faster per clock than previous G3s, it's not going to be 'slow'
<strong>
At 700mhz, and faster per clock than previous G3s, it's not going to be 'slow'</strong><hr></blockquote>
not being slow means nothing. the fact remains that it is a generation behind the rest of Apple's line-up and it lacks altivec. the only that makes apple competitive in performance is altivec right now. without the iBook is not competitive performance wise.
600MHz G3
100MHz system & memory buses
128MB RAM
15GB hard disk drive
Rage 128 Pro
CD-ROM
12.1"
Airport ready
$1199 Education only model
600MHz G3
100MHz system & memory buses
128MB RAM
20GB hard disk drive
RADEON mobilty with 16mb of vram
CD-RW
12.1"
Airport ready
$1399
700MHz G3
100MHz system & memory buses
256MB RAM
30GB hard disk drive
RADEON mobilty with 16mb of vram
Combo Drive
12.1"
Airport ready
$1599
700MHz G3
100MHz system & memory buses
256MB RAM
30GB hard disk drive
RADEON mobilty with 16mb of vram
Combo Drive
14.1"
Airport ready
$1899
I think we will have to wait for the rev after this upcoming one for a G4, improved case, screen, speakers, and bluetooth.
-Barto
EDIT/PS. Applenut, Apple has to keep component prices (ei memory and flat panels) under control, the iBook less powerful than the Powerbook, and keep the iBook a low power, cheap (ei G3... for the time being) consumer portable. Computers compete on usability, and with notebooks that means raw power is less important. Also, with Jaguar a RADEON card in an iBook mean the lack of AltiVec in G3s is less important, as Mac OS X will render faster and people don't buy iBooks for photoshop like a Powerbook.
[ 05-12-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
<strong>Applenut...then please explain to me why the eMac and iMac have 32MB graphics smartarse.</strong><hr></blockquote>
eMac supports a higher resolution: 1280 by 960 and 1.) nVidia doesn't even sell a 16MB version and it would cripple the card. 2.) for gaming 3.) to be competitve
iMac CRT has 16MB rage 128
iMac LCD has a 32MB nVidia Geforce 2 Mx because 1.) nVidia doesn't even sell a 16MB version and it would cripple the card. 2.) for gaming 3.) to be competitve
[ 05-12-2002: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
How long did Apple ship machines that didn't take full advantage of Altivec and their OS? Oh yeah, they're still doing it!
16 MB card for the new iBook.
<strong>Guys, I think you're forgetting that 'Quartz Extreme' is supposed to be like 'Altivec'- nice to have but not neccesary.
How long did Apple ship machines that didn't take full advantage of Altivec and their OS? Oh yeah, they're still doing it!
16 MB card for the new iBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
thank you!
The sweet spot for an iBook would be a faster G3 (800MHz?), a 16MB equipped Radeon (to get some benefit from QE. Adding a faster HD would probably make the system run a lot snappier too.
I do wish they would knock off one pound or more from the total weight.
Once that happens, expect to see iBooks at the current Ti speeds.
The iBook does need a Radeon though so it can play with Quartz Extreme.
Not really sure what all the hoopla is about.
Apple dropped a G4 in the iMac and eMac, and people were arguing that they were better suited for G3s. Not true. The iBook will get a G4 because Apple is phasing out the G3, and because Altivec is what apple is counting on to save them from the GHz gap.
And yes, the iBook will get a redesigned muthaboard to take the G4. It also will get a new video chipset that may require some fiddling with the muthaboard. If a G4 can fit in the smaller (thinner) Titanium, then it can fit in the iBook no problem. A fan is no big deal, most laptops have them anyways.
1. It is getting harder and harder to make to case for the G3. Apple can't promote the virtues of Altivec on the one hand and say it is unnecesarry on the other. Students like to play games in their spare time. Games are processor intensive. Power is an equasion that can't be completely ignored in the iBook.
2. The PB hinders the iBook from getting a 32MB vcard. It is bad enough for Apple to ship systems that don't take full advantage of Apple's key advantage, Altivec. Now they face the prospect of systems having not just one, but two major strikes against them, no Altivec and no QE. For marketing reasons alone, that prospect is a nighmare. They have got to go with one or the other.
As far as redesinging the case and adding a fan, it is time for those things anyway. A fan is inevidable. Power generates heat. Whenever they put a G4 in the iBook, it will need a fan. The good news is there are quiet solutions that they can take advantage of.
Given the choice between a low end G4 and a Radeon 32MB, I think the G4 is more likely. Then again, they have not yet contacted me to get my opinion on the next iBook specs. Oh well.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Mac Voyer ]</p>
They need do something, and soon because the education market needs to see some sort of move from Apple, and I don't think a lot of college students (myself included) want to see a mere 100 MHz bump, unless they moved to G4. I'd like to get an iBook soon, but they need to catch my eye with some substantial upgrade like they did with the Powerbook. What are the odds that they would do a 32MB video, but have a Geforce2 Go... would that be enough to differentiate the iBook from the Titanium? Also, when do you all think the next iBook will be announced? Perhaps as a surprise along the rackmounts on Tuesday, or some other event prior to MWNY, or at MWNY?
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: MCQ ]</p>