Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.
Serious gamers aren't using Macs anyway, so why would they even care?
Remember, we're only talking the latest Mac Pro here, those uber expensive Macs for people who need extremely high end hardware for extremely high end applications. If I was laying down 5-10 grand for a single workstation class Apple computer the fact that it wouldn't boot natively into Windows 7 would be a nit level concern.
The other side of the argument is "Hey Microsoft - make Windows 8 not suck!"
Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.
Serious gamers aren't using Macs anyway, so why would they even care?
Remember, we're only talking the latest Mac Pro here, those uber expensive Macs for people who need extremely high end hardware for extremely high end applications. If I was laying down 5-10 grand for a single workstation class Apple computer the fact that it wouldn't boot natively into Windows 7 would be a nit level concern.
The other side of the argument is "Hey Microsoft - make Windows 8 not suck!"
At first I thought you might just be a rapid Apple fanboy, but after thinking about it, you're more likely just a phony trying to ruin the reputation of Apple fans.
Get out fakeboy!
GTFO HERE TROLL!!!!!!I DARE YOU GO OUTSIDE AND SAY LOUD PC BETTER THAN MAC YOU GONNA GET WHAT YOU DESERVE-A$$ FU1!!KED
ARE YOU THE SAME F88K WHO VIRUSED MY WINDOWS PC? WELL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT BECAUSE MY NEXT purchase will be a MAC IN RESPOUNSE TO A BIG **** YOU
You're right this is beyond me being an Apple fan!
Phony is you and other people who buys that big a$$ large phones to cover your entire face with it !!!
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
Apple sold me my Macbook Pro Retina display mid 2012 BECAUSE it could run windows. As an engineer, I need windows because many of the applications I use are for windows only. Without the i7 and windows support, I would be doing just fine on a Dell, Samsung, or another computer that I would have selected. However, since my macbook pro runs windows 7, I am a happy camper and the laptop is prefect. The day Apple's Macs can not run Windows, is the day I switch back to a pure Windows PC and I can name about a dozen people who will follow me on that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
Windows 8 has been widely shunned & licences can still be purchased for Windows 7. This is a poor move for Apples customers who require bootcamp.
Agreed 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo
Why is it Apple's fault if Windows 8 is Microsoft's dumb shit.
It is a major selling point for many of us to be able to run windows 7, including me.
I know at least one "professional user" who used Boot Camp briefly on his first Mac, then got tired of rebooting, and purchased Parallels for Mac.
With that you can run any x86 or x64 OS you want.
Apple's latest move with the Mac Pro and Boot Camp is a huge non-issue. It would neither stop me from buying a new Mac Pro, nor from running Windows 7.
And Windows 8 is just fine if you add Stardock's Start 8 utility. You need never see the "no longer called Metro" interface if you don't want to.
Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.
Very true. Running Windows (natively) was a selling point for Apple, but Boot Camp has never been the smoothest way to do it.
As an aside, what are the chances of Apple breaking the ability to run a virtual OS at all in future hardware or systems?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PopinFRESH
This likely due to EFI/UEFI. Apple is likely removing CSM and requiring Secure Boot. Windows 7 does not support Secure Boot and would require Apple to make a backward compatible video firmware for lack of CSM. I would expect to see this requirement on all future Macs.
-PopinFRESH
That makes it an interesting situation, because 8 might be fantastic but businesses still haven't been making much of a move on it. Seems the majority of dual users in the near future will still be using 7 solutions and not 8, whatever that implies.
It will probably take a plug pulling announcement as with XP to get half of the 7 users to upgrade.
Maybe I missed the sarcasm here, but this is probably Apple's way of telling MS, "ok, even with the best hardware money can buy, look how crappy your OS is."
Except according to Microsoft, Windows 8 is awesome, the perfect high note for Ballmer to end his career on.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
The fact that *Apple* thinks it's important enough not only to market but to develop (it used to require third party software, remember) as a feature of their products seems like enough evidence to me that they think it's making an impact on their bottom line.
Why assume it is Apple? Microsoft isn't exactly pushing 7. Further how many Mac Pro people want to run 7 in boot camp? In Parallel or Fusion maybe.
7's declared end of life is still more than six years away (and they just extended XP's last year). Microsoft may not be marketing it, but they're supporting it for a long time to come. If people want to use 7 rather than 8, Microsoft wants to support them.
Apple sold me my Macbook Pro Retina display mid 2012 BECAUSE it could run windows. As an engineer, I need windows because many of the applications I use are for windows only. Without the i7 and windows support, I would be doing just fine on a Dell, Samsung, or another computer that I would have selected. However, since my macbook pro runs windows 7, I am a happy camper and the laptop is prefect. The day Apple's Macs can not run Windows, is the day I switch back to a pure Windows PC and I can name about a dozen people who will follow me on that one.
Well the problem with that threat is that, next month there might only be 11 that follow you back to a PC, by summer 10. Last year it was 20. For 70% of users, any hassle with legacy Windows 7 hardware support, won't send them flocking back to PC hardware. It will only drive them further toward cheaper, easier, more convenient mobile implementations. Almost every industry is almost directly facing a crossroads in computer hardware, so at the very least you shouldn't be surprised by this development.
Quote:
It is a major selling point for many of us to be able to run windows 7, including me.
I know what a bind it can be getting stuck between platform changes. However the new Mac Pro doesn't even support OS X from two years ago. Windows 7 is five years old. That alone says a lot about about the state of your platform. Bummer, but this is going to be a lingering side effect of your industry in choosing to develop on Windows. Why do you think Gates is so publicly trying to cleanse his soul? Deep down, he knows he has wronged you and your kin.
Better start vocalizing your concerns to your app's developers.
Has anyone actually been able to purchase an clean install version of Windows 8? The 2 options available for purchase here are only for upgrades.
So, if there is no clean install version of Windows 8, how does one install it on Bootcamp, or on VMware/ Parallels for that matter?
When our office called up Microsoft to enquire about installing Windows 8 on Bootcamp for a MBP, the person said that we will need to buy an install disc from Microsoft, which is priced almost thrice as much as standard Windows 8. Needless to say, we thought it wasn't worth it and stayed with Windows 7.
given that win 7 is at 50% use still worldwide, and the main target audiences for the pro being media and power users, take into consideration the need for win 7 in those enviroments. the need for legacy support for cad programs alone eliminates the use by architects to an extent, and yes i do know that cad has moved on but given recent conversations ive had with sophies dad alone leads me to beleive there is still a culture out there still doing the same as they were many years ago on the same programs. however my biggest concern is that in essence the pro is a commercial product more so that a home user product, window 8 is not really being taken up so much in the commercial market, so why remove support for the os that is the comcercially most utilised. surely this is effectively shooting yourself in the foot for commercial users to look at the pro as being their go to product for dual use
There was a recent study done on laptops that found that the Macbook Pro Retina was the most reliable and highest-rated Windows laptop. Getting a Mac device gets you higher build quality and reliability than most Windows devices, as well as letting you run OS X if you need.
You can still get that optimal performance of Windows 7 on a Macbook Pro Retina.
Apple sold me my Macbook Pro Retina display mid 2012 BECAUSE it could run windows. As an engineer, I need windows because many of the applications I use are for windows only. Without the i7 and windows support, I would be doing just fine on a Dell, Samsung, or another computer that I would have selected. However, since my macbook pro runs windows 7, I am a happy camper and the laptop is prefect. The day Apple's Macs can not run Windows, is the day I switch back to a pure Windows PC and I can name about a dozen people who will follow me on that one.
Agreed 100%.
It is a major selling point for many of us to be able to run windows 7, including me.
This article is about a new Mac Pro. If it were about MBPs, Mac minis or Airs then many of the posts in this thread would make sense. As it is they don't.
Comments
Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.
Serious gamers aren't using Macs anyway, so why would they even care?
Remember, we're only talking the latest Mac Pro here, those uber expensive Macs for people who need extremely high end hardware for extremely high end applications. If I was laying down 5-10 grand for a single workstation class Apple computer the fact that it wouldn't boot natively into Windows 7 would be a nit level concern.
The other side of the argument is "Hey Microsoft - make Windows 8 not suck!"
100% agree.
At first I thought you might just be a rapid Apple fanboy, but after thinking about it, you're more likely just a phony trying to ruin the reputation of Apple fans.
Get out fakeboy!
GTFO HERE TROLL!!!!!!I DARE YOU GO OUTSIDE AND SAY LOUD PC BETTER THAN MAC YOU GONNA GET WHAT YOU DESERVE-A$$ FU1!!KED
ARE YOU THE SAME F88K WHO VIRUSED MY WINDOWS PC? WELL GOOD LUCK WITH THAT BECAUSE MY NEXT purchase will be a MAC IN RESPOUNSE TO A BIG **** YOU
You're right this is beyond me being an Apple fan!
Phony is you and other people who buys that big a$$ large phones to cover your entire face with it !!!
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
Apple sold me my Macbook Pro Retina display mid 2012 BECAUSE it could run windows. As an engineer, I need windows because many of the applications I use are for windows only. Without the i7 and windows support, I would be doing just fine on a Dell, Samsung, or another computer that I would have selected. However, since my macbook pro runs windows 7, I am a happy camper and the laptop is prefect. The day Apple's Macs can not run Windows, is the day I switch back to a pure Windows PC and I can name about a dozen people who will follow me on that one.
Windows 8 has been widely shunned & licences can still be purchased for Windows 7. This is a poor move for Apples customers who require bootcamp.
Agreed 100%.
Why is it Apple's fault if Windows 8 is Microsoft's dumb shit.
It is a major selling point for many of us to be able to run windows 7, including me.
With that you can run any x86 or x64 OS you want.
Apple's latest move with the Mac Pro and Boot Camp is a huge non-issue. It would neither stop me from buying a new Mac Pro, nor from running Windows 7.
And Windows 8 is just fine if you add Stardock's Start 8 utility. You need never see the "no longer called Metro" interface if you don't want to.
Why assume it is Apple? Microsoft isn't exactly pushing 7. Further how many Mac Pro people want to run 7 in boot camp? In Parallel or Fusion maybe.
Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.
Very true. Running Windows (natively) was a selling point for Apple, but Boot Camp has never been the smoothest way to do it.
As an aside, what are the chances of Apple breaking the ability to run a virtual OS at all in future hardware or systems?
This likely due to EFI/UEFI. Apple is likely removing CSM and requiring Secure Boot. Windows 7 does not support Secure Boot and would require Apple to make a backward compatible video firmware for lack of CSM. I would expect to see this requirement on all future Macs.
-PopinFRESH
That makes it an interesting situation, because 8 might be fantastic but businesses still haven't been making much of a move on it. Seems the majority of dual users in the near future will still be using 7 solutions and not 8, whatever that implies.
It will probably take a plug pulling announcement as with XP to get half of the 7 users to upgrade.
Windows 8 is all Apple's fault.
Except according to Microsoft, Windows 8 is awesome, the perfect high note for Ballmer to end his career on.
On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
The fact that *Apple* thinks it's important enough not only to market but to develop (it used to require third party software, remember) as a feature of their products seems like enough evidence to me that they think it's making an impact on their bottom line.
Why assume it is Apple? Microsoft isn't exactly pushing 7. Further how many Mac Pro people want to run 7 in boot camp? In Parallel or Fusion maybe.
7's declared end of life is still more than six years away (and they just extended XP's last year). Microsoft may not be marketing it, but they're supporting it for a long time to come. If people want to use 7 rather than 8, Microsoft wants to support them.
Apple sold me my Macbook Pro Retina display mid 2012 BECAUSE it could run windows. As an engineer, I need windows because many of the applications I use are for windows only. Without the i7 and windows support, I would be doing just fine on a Dell, Samsung, or another computer that I would have selected. However, since my macbook pro runs windows 7, I am a happy camper and the laptop is prefect. The day Apple's Macs can not run Windows, is the day I switch back to a pure Windows PC and I can name about a dozen people who will follow me on that one.
Well the problem with that threat is that, next month there might only be 11 that follow you back to a PC, by summer 10. Last year it was 20. For 70% of users, any hassle with legacy Windows 7 hardware support, won't send them flocking back to PC hardware. It will only drive them further toward cheaper, easier, more convenient mobile implementations. Almost every industry is almost directly facing a crossroads in computer hardware, so at the very least you shouldn't be surprised by this development.
It is a major selling point for many of us to be able to run windows 7, including me.
I know what a bind it can be getting stuck between platform changes. However the new Mac Pro doesn't even support OS X from two years ago. Windows 7 is five years old. That alone says a lot about about the state of your platform. Bummer, but this is going to be a lingering side effect of your industry in choosing to develop on Windows. Why do you think Gates is so publicly trying to cleanse his soul? Deep down, he knows he has wronged you and your kin.
Better start vocalizing your concerns to your app's developers.
Windows 8 is all Apple's fault.
How so?
Has anyone actually been able to purchase an clean install version of Windows 8? The 2 options available for purchase here are only for upgrades.
So, if there is no clean install version of Windows 8, how does one install it on Bootcamp, or on VMware/ Parallels for that matter?
When our office called up Microsoft to enquire about installing Windows 8 on Bootcamp for a MBP, the person said that we will need to buy an install disc from Microsoft, which is priced almost thrice as much as standard Windows 8. Needless to say, we thought it wasn't worth it and stayed with Windows 7.
however my biggest concern is that in essence the pro is a commercial product more so that a home user product, window 8 is not really being taken up so much in the commercial market, so why remove support for the os that is the comcercially most utilised. surely this is effectively shooting yourself in the foot for commercial users to look at the pro as being their go to product for dual use
There was a recent study done on laptops that found that the Macbook Pro Retina was the most reliable and highest-rated Windows laptop. Getting a Mac device gets you higher build quality and reliability than most Windows devices, as well as letting you run OS X if you need.
You can still get that optimal performance of Windows 7 on a Macbook Pro Retina.
This article is about a new Mac Pro. If it were about MBPs, Mac minis or Airs then many of the posts in this thread would make sense. As it is they don't.