Wasn't the first Apple retailer the Byte Shop in Silicon Valley? I mean they sort of funded the start of Apple Computer right?
Perhaps the headline should read "World's second Apple computer retailer to shutter operations on Mar. 30"?
Byte Shop and Apple[edit]
The Byte Shop was the first retailer of the original Apple I computer,[2] ordering 50 of the as-yet-unbuilt units from a persistent Steve Jobs.
Jobs approached a local computer store, the Byte Shop, who said they would be interested in the machine, but only if it came fully assembled.[3] The owner, Paul Terrell, went further, saying he would order 50 of the machines and pay $500.00 each on delivery. Jobs then took the purchase order that he had been given from the Byte Shop to Cramer Electronics, a national electronic parts distributor, and ordered the components he needed to assemble the Apple I Computer. The local credit manager asked Jobs how he was going to pay for the parts and he replied, "I have this purchase order from the Byte Shop chain of computer stores for 50 of my computers and the payment terms are COD. If you give me the parts on a net 30 day terms I can build and deliver the computers in that time frame, collect my money from Terrell at the Byte Shop and pay you."[4]
With that, the credit manager called Paul Terrell who was attending an IEEE computer conference at Asilomar in Pacific Grove and verified the validity of the purchase order. Amazed at the tenacity of Jobs, Terrell assured the credit manager if the computers showed up in his stores Jobs would be paid and would have more than enough money to pay for the parts order. The two Steves (Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak) and their small crew spent day and night building and testing the computers and delivered to Terrell on time to pay his suppliers and have a tidy profit left over for their celebration and next order. Steve Jobs had found a way to finance his soon-to-be multimillion-dollar company without giving away one share of stock or ownership. [5]
There were [at least] 2 Byte Shops in Silicon Valley. Both were on the El Camino -- 1 in Palo Alto, the Other in Mountain View.
The Palo Alto Byte Shop was run by Bob Moody a tall, stocky, hirsute, intimidating visage -- an image of Rasputin comes to mind.
That shop was about two blocks up El Camino from where I worked for IBM (at the time). A friend and I would regularly walk past the store at lunch time. The store was unattractive and rarely open.
I believe that when ComputerLand franchised attractive stores in the area, it was too much competition for the Byte Shops. I think they stopped selling Apples after the Apple I.
One day, we found the Palo Alto Byte Shop open and I asked Moody if they sold Apple computers ... He led me to the back room where they had an Apple I motherboard mounted on a slab -- then he scorned me and said "Yeah, we sell Apple computers". It was a total turnoff!
I don't know it "can't compete" is the right reason... Apple products are somewhat notorious for being the same price everywhere. I think consumers have just shifted from supporting the local X-tech type of outfit to wanting the big, bright lights of the big box / Apple Store. They walk out with the same product, the same price, and the same support...
Or maybe 57 employees? Hard to believe the numbers in this story…. (even given that 73 years and 37 years are both correct)
75 does seem like a lot but remember its retail so there are probably more part timers, sales/techs/cashiers, open 7 days a week for 12 hours, 2 shops, a couple mgrs per store, inventory crew, etc.
75 does seem like a lot but remember its retail so there are probably more part timers, sales/techs/cashiers, open 7 days a week for 12 hours, 2 shops, a couple mgrs per store, inventory crew, etc.
75 seems very high ... probably closer to 50. However they opened the ill-advised store in a mall in Rochester a couple of months ago and they are open very long hours, so it's possible they have 15 employees or more there, including part time retail. So considering both locations, 75 might be more accurate than we think.
Also, yes, it sounds like a lot for a retail store, but there are a lot of trainers, repair techs, business to business sales people, etc that most people don't know about.
Or maybe 57 employees? Hard to believe the numbers in this story…. (even given that 73 years and 37 years are both correct)
Just change all the numbers to 50 to make it easy on us. 50 employees, founded 50 years ago, sold the first Apple 50 years ago. Much easier. Especially if there's going to be a test on this.
OMG no! I took the bus downtown just to visit them in the late 70's when I was in High School! Without giving my identity away, because it's so important ( ), I grew up in the North Suburbs... that's all I'm going to say about that....
All good things come to an end sooner or later, and I hope that the employees all find a new rewarding job soon!
The last paragraph of this AI story needs to be expanded. Here's what their product manager said in the St. Paul Pioneer Press:
***
Evans attributes FirstTech's demise to market forces, including shrinking hardware margins amid competition from a growing number of aggressive national vendors.
These vendors have "basically been willing to sell the computer equipment below cost to go after the national service business," he noted. It became increasingly difficult for "a brick-and-mortar to offer personalized service when we can't make any money off the product you're selling.
"It has been a dramatic change in that regard, the last couple of years in particular," Evans said.
Apple Inc., which does not heavily discount its products, had little to do with this trend, he said.
I hate to say it, but look to the online discounters featured right here on AI as one of the reasons. The online marketplace is draining sales from bricks-and-mortar stores. So it goes.
I don't know it "can't compete" is the right reason... Apple products are somewhat notorious for being the same price everywhere. I think consumers have just shifted from supporting the local X-tech type of outfit to wanting the big, bright lights of the big box / Apple Store. They walk out with the same product, the same price, and the same support...
It depends on the wholesale prices. Given that Apple so effectively sells direct to customers, they have very little reason to sell to other retailers at low prices and it seems they don't:
"Apple, extends only a tiny wholesale discount on its Macs and iPads to your retailer of choice. The actual numbers are a closely guarded secret, protected by confidentiality agreements between Cupertino and its resellers, but the difference probably amounts to only a few percentage points off the official price that you find at Apple’s own stores. With such a narrow gap to tinker with, most retailers can’t offer big discounts and still hope to turn a profit."
Apple only makes 25% net margin on their Macs so the wholesale prices are not going to be below 75% of the retail price. Take a $999 Air, Apple's profit would be $250 if they sold direct to a customer. They likely wouldn't be happy with a 3rd party making more profit than them so I'd expect them in the best case to split it 50/50 and sell it to the reseller for 87.5% ($875). The reseller then has to compete with Apple's $999. They might shift a few at $899 but Apple probably gives out limited supplies and 87.5% is a best-case scenario.
You can see the prices on AppleInsider's own price page:
Most for the entry Air are ~$949, except for MacMall. Given that MacMall must still make a profit at $920, the wholesale price would be 87.5%-92%. Let's say that they have bought them for $875, then $949 would be 7.8% margin but this isn't net margin for them, it's gross margin. They still have to pay retail staff, server costs and payment processor fees to process the order and other support costs out of that 7.8%. Physical retail stores can't survive on that. They have to make the margins on price-inflated 3rd party accessories. They need to stock the carrying cases for the Air that they can buy for <$10 and sell for $20-30, sell support services, maybe they can make more of a cut on AppleCare sales.
The reason computer stores stock Dell, HP, Sony, Lenovo etc is probably what contributes to their low margins vs Apple because in order to sustain the high volumes, they need to give over so much of the profit margin to the retail stores.
I expect this is much the same with the iOS devices and why phone stores try to push Android devices. They'll make more margins from those than from Apple's products but it kills the margins for the manufacturers.
Sorry to hear. I bought my wife a 20" Haswell iMac before Christmas from one of these guys at an excellent price and prompt free shipping.
Price was great for me too. Shipping was a little flakey, took about a week to a week and a half if I remember correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Why don't you name the vendor and say what happened? Specifics make a complaint more believable.
I didn't think any one would care but since you asked, I fell for a free Parallels 8 offer on Black Friday. It was one of those buy it now and send in the rebate offers. I sent it in only to have my rebate rejected with a generic letter and no explanation of what was needed to complete the rebate. (I sent them everything that was listed in the rebate.) I tried contacting them numerous times via the number they supplied to find out why my rebate was rejected. It never rang, it was always busy. One time just for laughs I was up and called at 2 am, it was still busy.
Finally one day out of the blue some one contacted me. I don't know if it was a follow up or what. I think they were looking for corporates sales leads. I told him what happened to me a few months earlier, I even told him I'm not perfect, here is a copy of everything I sent and here is MacMall's response, what is missing? He finally responded and tried negotiating a store credit with me for half the value of the original rebate, $20. I told him that was unacceptable, the rebate was for $40, and he had a copy of everything I sent. Why won't they honor the rebate? He never replied back.
Well, they might have "won" that little fight with me for $40 but they lost the war as far as I'm concerned. I've purchased three machines since (I know not a lot by some standards) and they've all come from Apple. If I couldn't trust them over $40 (probably $20 - $27 their cost?) There is no way I'm going to trust them with anymore of my business and I'll warn others when appropriate.
Price was great for me too. Shipping was a little flakey, took about a week to a week and a half if I remember correctly.
I didn't think any one would care but since you asked, I fell for a free Parallels 8 offer on Black Friday. It was one of those buy it now and send in the rebate offers. I sent it in only to have my rebate rejected with a generic letter and no explanation of what was needed to complete the rebate. (I sent them everything that was listed in the rebate.) I tried contacting them numerous times via the number they supplied to find out why my rebate was rejected. It never rang, it was always busy. One time just for laughs I was up and called at 2 am, it was still busy.
Finally one day out of the blue some one contacted me. I don't know if it was a follow up or what. I think they were looking for corporates sales leads. I told him what happened to me a few months earlier, I even told him I'm not perfect, here is a copy of everything I sent and here is MacMall's response, what is missing? He finally responded and tried negotiating a store credit with me for half the value of the original rebate, $20. I told him that was unacceptable, the rebate was for $40, and he had a copy of everything I sent. Why won't they honor the rebate? He never replied back.
Well, they might have "won" that little fight with me for $40 but they lost the war as far as I'm concerned. I've purchased three machines since (I know not a lot by some standards) and they've all come from Apple. If I couldn't trust them over $40 (probably $20 - $27 their cost?) There is no way I'm going to trust them with anymore of my business and I'll warn others when appropriate.
Comments
Actually, "do the math" would be more accurate. The article did say it started in 1941, but not as an Apple reseller.
That's life.
Yeah, sadly, in this life, we have to endure bitter, hateful douche bags.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Terrell
There were [at least] 2 Byte Shops in Silicon Valley. Both were on the El Camino -- 1 in Palo Alto, the Other in Mountain View.
The Palo Alto Byte Shop was run by Bob Moody a tall, stocky, hirsute, intimidating visage -- an image of Rasputin comes to mind.
That shop was about two blocks up El Camino from where I worked for IBM (at the time). A friend and I would regularly walk past the store at lunch time. The store was unattractive and rarely open.
I believe that when ComputerLand franchised attractive stores in the area, it was too much competition for the Byte Shops. I think they stopped selling Apples after the Apple I.
One day, we found the Palo Alto Byte Shop open and I asked Moody if they sold Apple computers ... He led me to the back room where they had an Apple I motherboard mounted on a slab -- then he scorned me and said "Yeah, we sell Apple computers". It was a total turnoff!
As an insider, I can say you hit it right on the head, Soundivision.
Spring Forward, Fall back.
75 does seem like a lot but remember its retail so there are probably more part timers, sales/techs/cashiers, open 7 days a week for 12 hours, 2 shops, a couple mgrs per store, inventory crew, etc.
75 does seem like a lot but remember its retail so there are probably more part timers, sales/techs/cashiers, open 7 days a week for 12 hours, 2 shops, a couple mgrs per store, inventory crew, etc.
75 seems very high ... probably closer to 50. However they opened the ill-advised store in a mall in Rochester a couple of months ago and they are open very long hours, so it's possible they have 15 employees or more there, including part time retail. So considering both locations, 75 might be more accurate than we think.
Also, yes, it sounds like a lot for a retail store, but there are a lot of trainers, repair techs, business to business sales people, etc that most people don't know about.
Or maybe 57 employees? Hard to believe the numbers in this story…. (even given that 73 years and 37 years are both correct)
Just change all the numbers to 50 to make it easy on us. 50 employees, founded 50 years ago, sold the first Apple 50 years ago. Much easier. Especially if there's going to be a test on this.
Spring Forward, Fall back.
Now we have something that we agree on
Now I changed my mind
OMG no! I took the bus downtown just to visit them in the late 70's when I was in High School! Without giving my identity away, because it's so important (
All good things come to an end sooner or later, and I hope that the employees all find a new rewarding job soon!
Is that you, Woz?
For those not able to upgrade every three years, repair of legacy equipment is important.
Those employees who are losing their jobs might think about banding together to start a computer repair shop for older Macs.
Freaking B&H, and J&R
It depends on the wholesale prices. Given that Apple so effectively sells direct to customers, they have very little reason to sell to other retailers at low prices and it seems they don't:
http://www.macworld.com/article/2024257/how-apple-sets-its-prices.html
"Apple, extends only a tiny wholesale discount on its Macs and iPads to your retailer of choice. The actual numbers are a closely guarded secret, protected by confidentiality agreements between Cupertino and its resellers, but the difference probably amounts to only a few percentage points off the official price that you find at Apple’s own stores. With such a narrow gap to tinker with, most retailers can’t offer big discounts and still hope to turn a profit."
Apple only makes 25% net margin on their Macs so the wholesale prices are not going to be below 75% of the retail price. Take a $999 Air, Apple's profit would be $250 if they sold direct to a customer. They likely wouldn't be happy with a 3rd party making more profit than them so I'd expect them in the best case to split it 50/50 and sell it to the reseller for 87.5% ($875). The reseller then has to compete with Apple's $999. They might shift a few at $899 but Apple probably gives out limited supplies and 87.5% is a best-case scenario.
You can see the prices on AppleInsider's own price page:
http://prices.appleinsider.com
Most for the entry Air are ~$949, except for MacMall. Given that MacMall must still make a profit at $920, the wholesale price would be 87.5%-92%. Let's say that they have bought them for $875, then $949 would be 7.8% margin but this isn't net margin for them, it's gross margin. They still have to pay retail staff, server costs and payment processor fees to process the order and other support costs out of that 7.8%. Physical retail stores can't survive on that. They have to make the margins on price-inflated 3rd party accessories. They need to stock the carrying cases for the Air that they can buy for <$10 and sell for $20-30, sell support services, maybe they can make more of a cut on AppleCare sales.
The reason computer stores stock Dell, HP, Sony, Lenovo etc is probably what contributes to their low margins vs Apple because in order to sustain the high volumes, they need to give over so much of the profit margin to the retail stores.
I expect this is much the same with the iOS devices and why phone stores try to push Android devices. They'll make more margins from those than from Apple's products but it kills the margins for the manufacturers.
Too bad they didn't invest in some Apple stock in the 70's. Even a small stake would be worth millions today.
Too bad they didn't invest in some Apple stock in the 70's. Even a small stake would be worth millions today.
Considering Apple didn't have their IPO until 1980 that would be some trick.
Sorry to hear. I bought my wife a 20" Haswell iMac before Christmas from one of these guys at an excellent price and prompt free shipping.
Price was great for me too. Shipping was a little flakey, took about a week to a week and a half if I remember correctly.
Why don't you name the vendor and say what happened? Specifics make a complaint more believable.
I didn't think any one would care but since you asked, I fell for a free Parallels 8 offer on Black Friday. It was one of those buy it now and send in the rebate offers. I sent it in only to have my rebate rejected with a generic letter and no explanation of what was needed to complete the rebate. (I sent them everything that was listed in the rebate.) I tried contacting them numerous times via the number they supplied to find out why my rebate was rejected. It never rang, it was always busy. One time just for laughs I was up and called at 2 am, it was still busy.
Finally one day out of the blue some one contacted me. I don't know if it was a follow up or what. I think they were looking for corporates sales leads. I told him what happened to me a few months earlier, I even told him I'm not perfect, here is a copy of everything I sent and here is MacMall's response, what is missing? He finally responded and tried negotiating a store credit with me for half the value of the original rebate, $20. I told him that was unacceptable, the rebate was for $40, and he had a copy of everything I sent. Why won't they honor the rebate? He never replied back.
Well, they might have "won" that little fight with me for $40 but they lost the war as far as I'm concerned. I've purchased three machines since (I know not a lot by some standards) and they've all come from Apple. If I couldn't trust them over $40 (probably $20 - $27 their cost?) There is no way I'm going to trust them with anymore of my business and I'll warn others when appropriate.
Hope you believe me now...
Price was great for me too. Shipping was a little flakey, took about a week to a week and a half if I remember correctly.
I didn't think any one would care but since you asked, I fell for a free Parallels 8 offer on Black Friday. It was one of those buy it now and send in the rebate offers. I sent it in only to have my rebate rejected with a generic letter and no explanation of what was needed to complete the rebate. (I sent them everything that was listed in the rebate.) I tried contacting them numerous times via the number they supplied to find out why my rebate was rejected. It never rang, it was always busy. One time just for laughs I was up and called at 2 am, it was still busy.
Finally one day out of the blue some one contacted me. I don't know if it was a follow up or what. I think they were looking for corporates sales leads. I told him what happened to me a few months earlier, I even told him I'm not perfect, here is a copy of everything I sent and here is MacMall's response, what is missing? He finally responded and tried negotiating a store credit with me for half the value of the original rebate, $20. I told him that was unacceptable, the rebate was for $40, and he had a copy of everything I sent. Why won't they honor the rebate? He never replied back.
Well, they might have "won" that little fight with me for $40 but they lost the war as far as I'm concerned. I've purchased three machines since (I know not a lot by some standards) and they've all come from Apple. If I couldn't trust them over $40 (probably $20 - $27 their cost?) There is no way I'm going to trust them with anymore of my business and I'll warn others when appropriate.
Hope you believe me now...
I've had my own run ins with MacMall, believe me.