I'm glad I'm not the only one. At first I though you might have been associated with MacMall and didn't want to go in to details.
I did way more than I should have as a customer to try and get things right. I was a sales manager in a previous life and know mistakes happen, just fix them when they do.
seltzdesign, I live in Minneapolis and have been to the store many times. In fact, I bought my first Harmon Kardon stereo system from their first business, Team Electronics. Yes, it really is a small local shop. They have (had?) a big repair side to the business, and I'm sure a lot of the employees were added when they tried to expand beyond their traditional retail and repair business. Yes, businesses have to learn to adpapt; they tried but couldn't survive. The original stereo store business was failing as big boxes took hold, so they moved into computer. It worked for a long time. I'm sad to see them go, a victim of Apple itself who placed a company store 4 blocks away, as well as the changing face of retail. I don't know if they could have survived, but I do wish that Apple had shown some appreciation and gratitude for a fine bunch of people who have stood with Apple for decades.
Now where would you get that silly idea from... considering Woz grew up around San Jose, CA.
So no... not only are you not close to warm... you're down right frigid cold like the MN Winter... which came back to "normal" this year like it was in the 60's and 70's.
Since I decided to "concentrate on my education" (LOL... that's what I'd still like to believe) rather than continue playing hockey after HS, I headed out to sunny SoCal, USC, surfing, and beach bunnies.
@Dick Applebaum - I purchased my first "personal" Mac in Summer '85 at a computer shop on La Brea between Beverly and Wilshire in Hollywood. I lived only a couple of blocks from there. For the life of me I can't remember the name. Have any idea?
Part 2: How I find myself in Germany since '89 is a story for another day....
I don't know it "can't compete" is the right reason... Apple products are somewhat notorious for being the same price everywhere. I think consumers have just shifted from supporting the local X-tech type of outfit to wanting the big, bright lights of the big box / Apple Store. They walk out with the same product, the same price, and the same support...
Apple's products USED to be priced the same everywhere. It gave customers the ability to choose their store based on the service being provided. It gave the small resellers a chance against the big box stores.
Unfortunately, about a year ago, that all changed. Apple removed the restriction of advertising their products at the same price, and suddenly, the big box retailers were selling at or below cost of the small shops. They could do that because they don't offer anywhere near the level of service, and they use the popularity of Apple products to bring people into their stores to buy other things that do have higher margins.
Competing against Apple stores that sold at the same price as you was challenging, but not impossible. A small shop offers a much different experience than a crowded Apple store, and customers could choose which one to shop at. A big box store exposed Apple products to customers that may not have been interested prior to that, but never offered a great experience to the customer.
But, now that the big box can sell the product at a lower price, customers have to choose between the quality personal service they were getting versus saving some dollars on the purchase. Some customers would go as far as to use the service provided by the small shops to get the information they needed, then drive over to the big box to purchase the item. That's pretty much impossible to compete with.
Apple's products USED to be priced the same everywhere. It gave customers the ability to choose their store based on the service being provided. It gave the small resellers a chance against the big box stores.
Unfortunately, about a year ago, that all changed. Apple removed the restriction of advertising their products at the same price, and suddenly, the big box retailers were selling at or below cost of the small shops. They could do that because they don't offer anywhere near the level of service, and they use the popularity of Apple products to bring people into their stores to buy other things that do have higher margins.
Competing against Apple stores that sold at the same price as you was challenging, but not impossible. A small shop offers a much different experience than a crowded Apple store, and customers could choose which one to shop at. A big box store exposed Apple products to customers that may not have been interested prior to that, but never offered a great experience to the customer.
But, now that the big box can sell the product at a lower price, customers have to choose between the quality personal service they were getting versus saving some dollars on the purchase. Some customers would go as far as to use the service provided by the small shops to get the information they needed, then drive over to the big box to purchase the item. That's pretty much impossible to compete with.
I think it's just the cultural shift as computers became common and the 'computer store' was no longer the domain of the geek... Or perhaps, the feeling of walking into a small computer shop became intimidating while you could not be afraid to be a dummy at Best Buy. We used to have a store, aptly named 'Software Supermarket'... I worked there part-time as a high school geekender... Anyway, I recall when we'd get 25 copies of 'Kings Quest' or 10 Amiga 500's in a shipment. It would be the same 50-100 people in that store week in and week out.
In my small city, we had maybe 5 of these little shops... each with 3-5 employees and the square footage of a large washroom. It wasn't about computers, it was about community. The first round of death for these shops was Gateway... the large 'Computer Shopper' magazine where people got their tech-fix by mail-order. Suddenly saving $50 on a $3000 computer was worth killing your local shop.
A few stuck it out only to be killed by the big box... and the Apple Store is just an extension of the big box. But, it also recreates that atmosphere of being 'a computer store' and even though they are relatively sparse, I know plenty of people that plan a trip to the city around a stop at The Apple Store.
What will kill the Apple Store? Who knows... but nothing seems to last. They certainly tie up huge capital in prime locations and artsy architecture. Kind of reminds me of Gateway and their 'fancy' cow boxes... Hmmm....
Or maybe 57 employees? Hard to believe the numbers in this story…. (even given that 73 years and 37 years are both correct)
75 does seem like a lot but remember its retail so there are probably more part timers, sales/techs/cashiers, open 7 days a week for 12 hours, 2 shops, a couple mgrs per store, inventory crew, etc.
75 isn't bad for 2 stores ... Likely, they had an active service/repair department of 5-15 people. In the early Apple ][ and Apple /// days, savvy stores would burn-in all the equipment for at least 24 hours prior to selling/releasing to customers *. Also, savvy stores would offer training such as: checkout introduction; more advanced tips an techniques; speciality training (apps, networks, hard drives, etc.). In our stores, the sales people were non-commissioned and did training about 25-30% of the time.
In those days most of the chips were not soldered in, and they would work their way loose with the heat from a few power off/power -on cycles. Also, periodically, Apple would ship defective equipment. One case comes to mind:
We received a large shipment of [5 1/4 mini-floppy] Disk ][ drives for the Apple ][. Apple had just changed drive manufacturers, Our burn-in testing had a failure rate of about 98%. I took about 50 of these drives and stacked then on top and around an Apple ][ and christened it the Apple "Data Wall". Then I called Wil Houd, VP of Apple Service, and said: "Ca'mon over and let me buy you lunch -- I've got something you will want to see ...". After lunch, I showed Wil the "data Wall" and explained the problem. Wil took it good-naturedly and immediately brought over technicians to address the problem. A temporary solution was available within days ** until the drive manufacturing problem could be resolved.
** The problem was that the drive couldn't properly center the disk because of the thinness of the flexible magnetic disk surface. The temp fix was Apple supplied free thin plastic rings that you would stick to the center of the disk material (like notebook page hole reinforcers). It was a jerry-rig solution, but it worked until Apple replaced all the drive mechanisms.
The Apple /// was infamous for CPU and Twiggy drive problems.
Now where would you get that silly idea from... considering Woz grew up around San Jose, CA.
So no... not only are you not close to warm... you're down right frigid cold like the MN Winter... which came back to "normal" this year like it was in the 60's and 70's.
Since I decided to "concentrate on my education" (LOL... that's what I'd still like to believe) rather than continue playing hockey after HS, I headed out to sunny SoCal, USC, surfing, and beach bunnies.
@Dick Applebaum - I purchased my first "personal" Mac in Summer '85 at a computer shop on La Brea between Beverly and Wilshire in Hollywood. I lived only a couple of blocks from there. For the life of me I can't remember the name. Have any idea?
Part 2: How I find myself in Germany since '89 is a story for another day....
TarPits R Us ???
Sorry ... In the '80s Apple was aggressively approving dealerships -- like gas stations, 4 on every street corner So we stopped paying attention to any but the stores in Silicon Valley.
75 isn't bad for 2 stores ... Likely, they had an active service/repair department of 5-15 people. In the early Apple ][ and Apple /// days, savvy stores would burn-in all the equipment for at least 24 hours prior to selling/releasing to customers *. Also, savvy stores would offer training such as: checkout introduction; more advanced tips an techniques; speciality training (apps, networks, hard drives, etc.). In our stores, the sales people were non-commissioned and did training about 25-30% of the time.
In those days most of the chips were not soldered in, and they would work their way loose with the heat from a few power off/power -on cycles. Also, periodically, Apple would ship defective equipment. One case comes to mind:
We received a large shipment of [5 1/4 mini-floppy] Disk ][ drives for the Apple ][. Apple had just changed drive manufacturers, Our burn-in testing had a failure rate of about 98%. I took about 50 of these drives and stacked then on top and around an Apple ][ and christened it the Apple "Data Wall". Then I called Wil Houd, VP of Apple Service, and said: "Ca'mon over and let me buy you lunch -- I've got something you will want to see ...". After lunch, I showed Wil the "data Wall" and explained the problem. Wil took it good-naturedly and immediately brought over technicians to address the problem. A temporary solution was available within days ** until the drive manufacturing problem could be resolved.
** The problem was that the drive couldn't properly center the disk because of the thinness of the flexible magnetic disk surface. The temp fix was Apple supplied free thin plastic rings that you would stick to the center of the disk material (like notebook page hole reinforcers). It was a jerry-rig solution, but it worked until Apple replaced all the drive mechanisms.
The Apple /// was infamous for CPU and Twiggy drive problems.
Another classic one from you - BIG thanks!
Wasn't there also a model which suffered from 'self-rising' memory modules? And Apple advised customers over phone support to 'power down and disconnect the Mac, lift it 6 inches and then simply drop it'. "This ought to reseat the modules".
Wasn't there also a model which suffered from 'self-rising' memory modules? And Apple advised customers over phone support to 'power down and disconnect the Mac, lift it 6 inches and then simply drop it'. "This ought to reseat the modules".
After that, Apple stopped buying their RAM from Fleischmann’s.
Wasn't there also a model which suffered from 'self-rising' memory modules? And Apple advised customers over phone support to 'power down and disconnect the Mac, lift it 6 inches and then simply drop it'. "This ought to reseat the modules".
Someone missed a fact check. The first retailer was Computer Plus in Sunnyvale CA. Embarrassing. ..
As one of 3 founders of Computer Plus, Inc. in Sunnyvale (and San Jose). I must correct you. We were the 5th Computer Store in Silicon Valley and opened December 28, 1978 as an Apple dealer (with no stock to sell). *
There were 2 Byte Shops (the first Apple retailer) and 2 ComputerLands. Also there were quite a few Apple retailers that preceded us in Pasadena, San Francisco, greater LA area. There even was a Computers [plural] Plus in La Brea, CA.
* Apples were a very hot product and very hard to get, then. Our first customer bought an Apple ][ at ComputerLand in San Francisco for his kids (so he claimed). Then, the Apple ][ was supposed to come with game paddles. Because of supply-chain issues Apple substituted a chit that could be redeemed for paddles when available. The customer called Apple, then drove down the peninsula stopping at each Apple reseller looking for game paddles. He hit our store -- the only computers we had were Mark's Apple ][ and my Apple ][ (both personally owned) computers. Both had game paddles. After listening to the guy's story, I traded him the chit for my game paddles. Total sale; $0.00 -- Computer Plus' first sale ... But one of the best sales we ever made, as we gained a customer for life and a source of many reference sales!
75 isn't bad for 2 stores ... Likely, they had an active service/repair department of 5-15 people. In the early Apple ][ and Apple /// days, savvy stores would burn-in all the equipment for at least 24 hours prior to selling/releasing to customers *. Also, savvy stores would offer training such as: checkout introduction; more advanced tips an techniques; speciality training (apps, networks, hard drives, etc.). In our stores, the sales people were non-commissioned and did training about 25-30% of the time.
In those days most of the chips were not soldered in, and they would work their way loose with the heat from a few power off/power -on cycles. Also, periodically, Apple would ship defective equipment. One case comes to mind:
We received a large shipment of [5 1/4 mini-floppy] Disk ][ drives for the Apple ][. Apple had just changed drive manufacturers, Our burn-in testing had a failure rate of about 98%. I took about 50 of these drives and stacked then on top and around an Apple ][ and christened it the Apple "Data Wall". Then I called Wil Houd, VP of Apple Service, and said: "Ca'mon over and let me buy you lunch -- I've got something you will want to see ...". After lunch, I showed Wil the "data Wall" and explained the problem. Wil took it good-naturedly and immediately brought over technicians to address the problem. A temporary solution was available within days ** until the drive manufacturing problem could be resolved.
** The problem was that the drive couldn't properly center the disk because of the thinness of the flexible magnetic disk surface. The temp fix was Apple supplied free thin plastic rings that you would stick to the center of the disk material (like notebook page hole reinforcers). It was a jerry-rig solution, but it worked until Apple replaced all the drive mechanisms.
The Apple /// was infamous for CPU and Twiggy drive problems.
Another classic one from you - BIG thanks!
Wasn't there also a model which suffered from 'self-rising' memory modules? And Apple advised customers over phone support to 'power down and disconnect the Mac, lift it 6 inches and then simply drop it'. "This ought to reseat the modules".
The memory chips (and some others) working loose was the problem I described in my post. I never heard of "dropping it 6 inches" * as a solution. Rather, the burn-in would heat the chips and cause them to loosen. You then pushed down on each chip [with power on if you were good at it] and reseat the chip in its socket (usually with an audible click). Rinse and repeat over 24 hours and the chip contacts and socket contactss would acclimate themselves to each other -- which largely resolved the issue.
Our first customer bought an Apple ][ at ComputerLand in San Francisco for his kids (so he claimed). Then, the Apple ][ was supposed to come with game paddles. Because of supply-chain issues Apple substituted a chit that could be redeemed for paddles when available. The customer called Apple, then drove down the peninsula stopping at each Apple reseller looking for game paddles. He hit our store -- the only computers we had were Mark's Apple ][ and my Apple ][ (both personally owned) computers. Both had game paddles. After listening to the guy's story, I traded him the chit for my game paddles. Total sale; $0.00 -- Computer Plus' first sale ... But one of the best sales we ever made, as we gained a customer for life and a source of many reference sales!
Our first customer bought an Apple ][ at ComputerLand in San Francisco for his kids (so he claimed). Then, the Apple ][ was supposed to come with game paddles. Because of supply-chain issues Apple substituted a chit that could be redeemed for paddles when available. The customer called Apple, then drove down the peninsula stopping at each Apple reseller looking for game paddles. He hit our store -- the only computers we had were Mark's Apple ][ and my Apple ][ (both personally owned) computers. Both had game paddles. After listening to the guy's story, I traded him the chit for my game paddles. Total sale; $0.00 -- Computer Plus' first sale ... But one of the best sales we ever made, as we gained a customer for life and a source of many reference sales!
Now that's some quality service!
2 of the 3 owners, Jim and myself, came from IBM ... so quality and service were part of our DNA.
We decided on these simple objectives for our company:
provide a fair return [profit] to our investors
provide the best products and services to our customers
have fun
You can't believe how easy that makes everyday decision making!
Comments
I did way more than I should have as a customer to try and get things right. I was a sales manager in a previous life and know mistakes happen, just fix them when they do.
More evidence that Apple is doomed. Will Apple HQ be next?
I think about 95% of the uses of the word "doomed" on this site are now by people who are pro-Apple. To me, the joke is tired.
I thought about making it into a drinking game, but I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning in two hours.
So no... not only are you not close to warm... you're down right frigid cold like the MN Winter... which came back to "normal" this year like it was in the 60's and 70's.
Since I decided to "concentrate on my education" (LOL... that's what I'd still like to believe) rather than continue playing hockey after HS, I headed out to sunny SoCal, USC, surfing, and beach bunnies.
@Dick Applebaum - I purchased my first "personal" Mac in Summer '85 at a computer shop on La Brea between Beverly and Wilshire in Hollywood. I lived only a couple of blocks from there. For the life of me I can't remember the name. Have any idea?
Part 2: How I find myself in Germany since '89 is a story for another day....
I don't know it "can't compete" is the right reason... Apple products are somewhat notorious for being the same price everywhere. I think consumers have just shifted from supporting the local X-tech type of outfit to wanting the big, bright lights of the big box / Apple Store. They walk out with the same product, the same price, and the same support...
Apple's products USED to be priced the same everywhere. It gave customers the ability to choose their store based on the service being provided. It gave the small resellers a chance against the big box stores.
Unfortunately, about a year ago, that all changed. Apple removed the restriction of advertising their products at the same price, and suddenly, the big box retailers were selling at or below cost of the small shops. They could do that because they don't offer anywhere near the level of service, and they use the popularity of Apple products to bring people into their stores to buy other things that do have higher margins.
Competing against Apple stores that sold at the same price as you was challenging, but not impossible. A small shop offers a much different experience than a crowded Apple store, and customers could choose which one to shop at. A big box store exposed Apple products to customers that may not have been interested prior to that, but never offered a great experience to the customer.
But, now that the big box can sell the product at a lower price, customers have to choose between the quality personal service they were getting versus saving some dollars on the purchase. Some customers would go as far as to use the service provided by the small shops to get the information they needed, then drive over to the big box to purchase the item. That's pretty much impossible to compete with.
Someone missed a fact check. The first retailer was Computer Plus in Sunnyvale CA.
Updated: I did... Computer Plus was in fact the 5th. Memory, when combined with pride can be a fickle beast.
Apple's products USED to be priced the same everywhere. It gave customers the ability to choose their store based on the service being provided. It gave the small resellers a chance against the big box stores.
Unfortunately, about a year ago, that all changed. Apple removed the restriction of advertising their products at the same price, and suddenly, the big box retailers were selling at or below cost of the small shops. They could do that because they don't offer anywhere near the level of service, and they use the popularity of Apple products to bring people into their stores to buy other things that do have higher margins.
Competing against Apple stores that sold at the same price as you was challenging, but not impossible. A small shop offers a much different experience than a crowded Apple store, and customers could choose which one to shop at. A big box store exposed Apple products to customers that may not have been interested prior to that, but never offered a great experience to the customer.
But, now that the big box can sell the product at a lower price, customers have to choose between the quality personal service they were getting versus saving some dollars on the purchase. Some customers would go as far as to use the service provided by the small shops to get the information they needed, then drive over to the big box to purchase the item. That's pretty much impossible to compete with.
I think it's just the cultural shift as computers became common and the 'computer store' was no longer the domain of the geek... Or perhaps, the feeling of walking into a small computer shop became intimidating while you could not be afraid to be a dummy at Best Buy. We used to have a store, aptly named 'Software Supermarket'... I worked there part-time as a high school geekender... Anyway, I recall when we'd get 25 copies of 'Kings Quest' or 10 Amiga 500's in a shipment. It would be the same 50-100 people in that store week in and week out.
In my small city, we had maybe 5 of these little shops... each with 3-5 employees and the square footage of a large washroom. It wasn't about computers, it was about community. The first round of death for these shops was Gateway... the large 'Computer Shopper' magazine where people got their tech-fix by mail-order. Suddenly saving $50 on a $3000 computer was worth killing your local shop.
A few stuck it out only to be killed by the big box... and the Apple Store is just an extension of the big box. But, it also recreates that atmosphere of being 'a computer store' and even though they are relatively sparse, I know plenty of people that plan a trip to the city around a stop at The Apple Store.
What will kill the Apple Store? Who knows... but nothing seems to last. They certainly tie up huge capital in prime locations and artsy architecture. Kind of reminds me of Gateway and their 'fancy' cow boxes... Hmmm....
75 isn't bad for 2 stores ... Likely, they had an active service/repair department of 5-15 people. In the early Apple ][ and Apple /// days, savvy stores would burn-in all the equipment for at least 24 hours prior to selling/releasing to customers *. Also, savvy stores would offer training such as: checkout introduction; more advanced tips an techniques; speciality training (apps, networks, hard drives, etc.). In our stores, the sales people were non-commissioned and did training about 25-30% of the time.
In those days most of the chips were not soldered in, and they would work their way loose with the heat from a few power off/power -on cycles. Also, periodically, Apple would ship defective equipment. One case comes to mind:
We received a large shipment of [5 1/4 mini-floppy] Disk ][ drives for the Apple ][. Apple had just changed drive manufacturers, Our burn-in testing had a failure rate of about 98%. I took about 50 of these drives and stacked then on top and around an Apple ][ and christened it the Apple "Data Wall". Then I called Wil Houd, VP of Apple Service, and said: "Ca'mon over and let me buy you lunch -- I've got something you will want to see ...". After lunch, I showed Wil the "data Wall" and explained the problem. Wil took it good-naturedly and immediately brought over technicians to address the problem. A temporary solution was available within days ** until the drive manufacturing problem could be resolved.
** The problem was that the drive couldn't properly center the disk because of the thinness of the flexible magnetic disk surface. The temp fix was Apple supplied free thin plastic rings that you would stick to the center of the disk material (like notebook page hole reinforcers). It was a jerry-rig solution, but it worked until Apple replaced all the drive mechanisms.
The Apple /// was infamous for CPU and Twiggy drive problems.
TarPits R Us ???
Sorry ... In the '80s Apple was aggressively approving dealerships -- like gas stations, 4 on every street corner
Go, Trojans!
Another classic one from you - BIG thanks!
Wasn't there also a model which suffered from 'self-rising' memory modules? And Apple advised customers over phone support to 'power down and disconnect the Mac, lift it 6 inches and then simply drop it'. "This ought to reseat the modules".
After that, Apple stopped buying their RAM from Fleischmann’s.
I'm baffled by the long retention time of your memory!
Another classic one from you - BIG thanks!
Wasn't there also a model which suffered from 'self-rising' memory modules? And Apple advised customers over phone support to 'power down and disconnect the Mac, lift it 6 inches and then simply drop it'. "This ought to reseat the modules".
I think that was the Apple ///: http://books.google.com/books?id=mXnw5tM8QRwC&lpg=PA245&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q&f=false
As one of 3 founders of Computer Plus, Inc. in Sunnyvale (and San Jose). I must correct you. We were the 5th Computer Store in Silicon Valley and opened December 28, 1978 as an Apple dealer (with no stock to sell). *
There were 2 Byte Shops (the first Apple retailer) and 2 ComputerLands. Also there were quite a few Apple retailers that preceded us in Pasadena, San Francisco, greater LA area. There even was a Computers [plural] Plus in La Brea, CA.
* Apples were a very hot product and very hard to get, then. Our first customer bought an Apple ][ at ComputerLand in San Francisco for his kids (so he claimed). Then, the Apple ][ was supposed to come with game paddles. Because of supply-chain issues Apple substituted a chit that could be redeemed for paddles when available. The customer called Apple, then drove down the peninsula stopping at each Apple reseller looking for game paddles. He hit our store -- the only computers we had were Mark's Apple ][ and my Apple ][ (both personally owned) computers. Both had game paddles. After listening to the guy's story, I traded him the chit for my game paddles. Total sale; $0.00 -- Computer Plus' first sale ... But one of the best sales we ever made, as we gained a customer for life and a source of many reference sales!
The memory chips (and some others) working loose was the problem I described in my post. I never heard of "dropping it 6 inches" * as a solution. Rather, the burn-in would heat the chips and cause them to loosen. You then pushed down on each chip [with power on if you were good at it] and reseat the chip in its socket (usually with an audible click). Rinse and repeat over 24 hours and the chip contacts and socket contactss would acclimate themselves to each other -- which largely resolved the issue.
* how do they test air bags in the cars
Our first customer bought an Apple ][ at ComputerLand in San Francisco for his kids (so he claimed). Then, the Apple ][ was supposed to come with game paddles. Because of supply-chain issues Apple substituted a chit that could be redeemed for paddles when available. The customer called Apple, then drove down the peninsula stopping at each Apple reseller looking for game paddles. He hit our store -- the only computers we had were Mark's Apple ][ and my Apple ][ (both personally owned) computers. Both had game paddles. After listening to the guy's story, I traded him the chit for my game paddles. Total sale; $0.00 -- Computer Plus' first sale ... But one of the best sales we ever made, as we gained a customer for life and a source of many reference sales!
Now that's some quality service!
2 of the 3 owners, Jim and myself, came from IBM ... so quality and service were part of our DNA.
We decided on these simple objectives for our company:
You can't believe how easy that makes everyday decision making!
I stand corrected.
Yeah, sadly, in this life, we have to endure bitter, hateful douche bags.
I endure that every day when I look in the mirror.