How Wikipedia's sloppy facts obscured reality in Apple vs. Samsung trial

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  • Reply 101 of 170
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

     

     

    Can you outline a few DED "reality obscuring" problems? There are literally hundreds of DED articles up on a wide range of subjects, so it should be easy for you to find and describe lots of serious problems if DED can outline half a dozen major problems in a single Wikipedia article. Or are you simply creating a false equivalency and not backing up your accusations with any facts in a lazy effort to discredit actual journalism?

     

    That’s not something to be proud of. 


     

    Wow, Dilger sees himself as an actual journalist.

    Well, at least that might explain some of his anger issues.

    After all, it must be incredibly frustrating, to see oneself as a real journalist, but being unable to find gainful employment at even a semi-respectable news source. Instead, our fearless journalist is forced to write laughable hit-pieces for a 3rd tier website...

     

    And, btw., who does our actual journalist think he is fooling by commenting on his own verbal diarrhea under the handle "Corrections"?

  • Reply 102 of 170
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    There seems to be plenty of evindence that Samsung's flagship phones sell very well. From their domination of the Android-based device profits, to them being the other cellphone vendor making any real money besides Apple, too independent reports — posted right here on AI recently — of the Samsung Galaxy S4 being either the 2nd or 3rd most popular device on the US' four major carriers.

    The iPhone 5c was alternating 2nd and 3rd place with the Galaxy S4. Yet the 5c was deemed a failure by everyone, and the S4 trumpeted as a good seller. 

  • Reply 103 of 170
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    You are what you hate.

    And you hate what you are.

  • Reply 104 of 170
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    elroth wrote: »
    The iPhone 5c was alternating 2nd and 3rd place with the Galaxy S4. Yet the 5c was deemed a failure by everyone, and the S4 trumpeted as a good seller. 

    If you accept the 5C as a failure that's fine, but I don't see how the 2nd and 3rd most popular device on a carrier can be labeled as such. That means I can't possibly label the S4 as a failure, especially when there is enough circumstantial data to show that it is both popular and profitable for Samsung, along with many of their previous high-end smartphones.
  • Reply 105 of 170
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post





    If you were looking for proof that education reform is long overdue, here's this nugget of... gold.

     

    I thought it was proof that the war on drugs isn't working.

  • Reply 106 of 170
    solipsismx wrote: »
    ...of the Samsung Galaxy S4 being either the 2nd or 3rd most popular device on the US' four major carriers.

    But what about in the whole world?

    If Samsung sold 82 million smartphones worldwide last quarter... how many of those were the Galaxy S4? Or expensive flagship phones in general?

    Or... out of ALL the 280 million smartphones sold last quarter... how many of those were expensive phones?

    I agree with elroth... the cheaper phones tend to be the ones that make up most of the sales.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that :)
  • Reply 107 of 170
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    But what about in the whole world?

    If Samsung sold 82 million smartphones worldwide last quarter... how many of those were the Galaxy S4? Or expensive flagship phones in general?

    Or... out of ALL the 280 million smartphones sold last quarter... how many of those were expensive phones?

    I agree with elroth... the cheaper phones tend to be the ones that make up most of the sales.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that :)

    Sure, because of their excessive selection and the majority of their devices are very cheap (by American standards) the S4 only accounts for a fraction of their total handset units, but elroth started his comment by stating they "don't sell" which is a very different statement.

    As for outside the US I'd say the numbers are very good. From what I've seen the iPhone 5S costs considerably more than the S4 in other countries; it's the Galaxy Note 3 that is priced more comparatively to the iPhone 5S.

    Do you guys think Samsung is making their profits on the cheap phones? The only reasonable answer, to me, is that they are selling enough of their high-end devices and with a decent profit margin to account for their profits in the handset market.
  • Reply 108 of 170
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Sure, because of their excessive selection and the majority of their devices are very cheap (by American standards) the S4 only accounts for a fraction of their total handset units, but elroth started his comment by stating they "don't sell" which is a very different statement.

    As for outside the US I'd say the numbers are very good. From what I've seen the iPhone 5S costs considerably more than the S4 in other countries; it's the Galaxy Note 3 that is priced more comparatively to the iPhone 5S.

    Do you guys think Samsung is making their profits on the cheap phones? The only reasonable answer, to me, is that they are selling enough of their high-end devices and with a decent profit margin to account for their profits in the handset market.

    You can make a profit on any product at any price. You just have to charge more than what it costs to produce, market, ship, etc.

    Samsung is no dummy... they know how to make a profit from their products.

    But I just don't think they're selling as many flagship phones as the profit leads you to believe.

    Out of 82 million smartphones sold last quarter... do you think they sold 40 million Galaxy S4? 50 million Galaxy S4? I think they would be shouting from to rooftop if that was the case.

    Instead... they only talk about certain milestones... like "194 million Galaxy S phones sold since 2010"

    That's a great story... but it doesn't really say anything.

    We know Android phones, on average, have a low price. And Samsung sells a lot of Android phones. Those two things don't really enforce the notion that Samsung sells a lot of premium phones.

    Samsung has earned the title of "world's largest smartphone manufacturer by unit sales" but that doesn't say anything about what those units are.

    That's what we're trying to figure out.

    If I was to make a guess... I'd say most of Samsung's sales are the cheaper $100-200 phones sold in China and India... not flagships.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that :)

    .
  • Reply 109 of 170
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post





    Look at this entire thread. Look at the amount of time and effort this website devotes to bashing Samsung.



    It's really embarrassing that these people exist.



    DED is pretty much the Fox News of tech reporting, and everything he writes is a hit-piece.



    I start visiting this site, browse through a bit to see when the updates are coming, and then one of these steaming piles always turns me away again.



    Without this garbage this site would be so, so much better.

     

    Samsung got caught, convicted and fined promoting their "steaming piles" on HTC's Taiwanese forums.

     

    The biggest "steaming piles" are paid for by Samsung out of their $14 Billion marketing budget.

     

    Without whining like yours, these forums would be so much better.

     

    Go back to the "winners".

  • Reply 110 of 170
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post





    You can make a profit on any product at any price. You just have to charge more than what it costs to produce, market, ship, etc.



    Samsung is no dummy... they know how to make a profit from their products.



    But I just don't think they're selling as many flagship phones as the profit leads you to believe.



    Out of 82 million smartphones sold last quarter... do you think they sold 40 million Galaxy S4? 50 million Galaxy S4? I think they would be shouting from to rooftop if that was the case.



    Instead... they only talk about certain milestones... like "194 million Galaxy S phones sold since 2010"



    That's a great story... but it doesn't really say anything.



    We know Android phones, on average, have a low price. And Samsung sells a lot of Android phones. Those two things don't really enforce the notion that Samsung sells a lot of premium phones.



    Samsung has earned the title of "world's largest smartphone manufacturer by unit sales" but that doesn't say anything about what those units are.



    That's what we're trying to figure out.



    If I was to make a guess... I'd say most of Samsung's sales are the cheaper $100-200 phones sold in China and India... not flagships.



    Not that there's anything wrong with that image



    .

     

     

    The average income in India is $1219, in China it's $2,100.  The idea that Samsung is garnering the lions share of it's very substantial profits by selling $100 phones into these markets is ludicrous.  Then there are the sales figures:

     

    Quote:

    But is the current Android flagship model really suffering from poor sales? Not according to a published report out of Korea on Wednesday, which cites Samsung CEO J.K. Shin as the source of a story claiming that more than 40 million units of the Samsung Galaxy S4 have been sold to date. 


    So that's 40 million in six months.  If you want to consider that low sales , fine, but I wouldn't agree with you.  There have been  other sales figures announced which do indicate Samsung sells a lot of high end phones.

     

    They sold a further 10 million Note 3s on top of those 40 million S4s

     

    Quote:

     Samsung on Tuesday announced that channel sales of the Note 3 have rocketed to 10 million units in just two months. For those keeping score, that’s half as long as it took shipments of the Galaxy Note II to reach 10 million. The 60 days Samsung’s Galaxy Note 3 took to hit 10 million units shipped is also shockingly close to the 50 days it took channel sales of Samsung’s flagship Galaxy S4 to hit 10 million units.  It’s actually not much of a surprise, though; BGR reviewed the Galaxy Note 3 back in October and we called it the best smartphone Samsung has ever made.   http://news.yahoo.com/samsung-galaxy-note-3-sales-rocket-10-million-134547384.html


    December 10, 2013


     

    And since the argument is about the percentage of their profits coming from high end devices - don't jump up and down claiming these are channel sales, because it just doesn't matter to Samsung if the retailers dump them in the sea, so long as they are paid for them they make a profit.  But somehow I doubt all those retailers world-wide are really ordering product they don't think there is a demand for and which they think won't sell.

     

    I think a lot of companies would like to fail at selling high end phones the way Samsung obviously does.

     

    This litle tid-bit is interesting:

     

    Quote:

     In fact, Samsung is planning to focus more on low- to mid-range handsets, claims the source, as well as tablets, where it smells much more opportunity for growth, and expects just 35% of its phones sold next year to be "premium models"




     

    Since that article is about Samsung revising downward their expectations for sales of the S5, one could reasonably infer that previously, high end phones made up more than 35% of their sales.

  • Reply 111 of 170
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    There seems to be plenty of evindence that Samsung's flagship phones sell very well. From their domination of the Android-based device profits, to them being the other cellphone vendor making any real money besides Apple, too independent reports — posted right here on AI recently — of the Samsung Galaxy S4 being either the 2nd or 3rd most popular device on the US' four major carriers.

     

    150 million Galaxy S models sold since 2010 vs 430 million iPhones over the same period, yet Apple are the "failures".

     

    Source Sydney Galaxy S5 launch Tuesday March 25 2014.

  • Reply 112 of 170
    Another is not being able to spell.
  • Reply 113 of 170
    jessijessi Posts: 302member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



    If this Wikipedia page is off, why didn't the author edited it? Or is it locked down?

     

     

    As you found, you cannot fix wikipedia.  Even correctly cited factual data does not hold up to the political ideology of the wikipedia editors, which as someone else pointed out, are a bunch of biased jerks who will simply revert corrections.

     

    This is why, anyone who claims something based on wikipedia as a source, is a fool. 

     

    Wikipedia is a joke, for anything even mildly controversial, and the editors are jerks.

  • Reply 114 of 170
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    You can make a profit on any product at any price. You just have to charge more than what it costs to produce, market, ship, etc.

    Samsung is no dummy... they know how to make a profit from their products.

    But I just don't think they're selling as many flagship phones as the profit leads you to believe.

    Out of 82 million smartphones sold last quarter... do you think they sold 40 million Galaxy S4? 50 million Galaxy S4? I think they would be shouting from to rooftop if that was the case.

    Instead... they only talk about certain milestones... like "194 million Galaxy S phones sold since 2010"

    That's a great story... but it doesn't really say anything.

    We know Android phones, on average, have a low price. And Samsung sells a lot of Android phones. Those two things don't really enforce the notion that Samsung sells a lot of premium phones.

    Samsung has earned the title of "world's largest smartphone manufacturer by unit sales" but that doesn't say anything about what those units are.

    That's what we're trying to figure out.

    If I was to make a guess... I'd say most of Samsung's sales are the cheaper $100-200 phones sold in China and India... not flagships.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that :)

    .

    As noted by [@]hill60[/@] Samsung is selling one Galaxy for every iPhone Apple sells. Samsung is successful and they sell a shitload of higher-end devices. They sold 10 million S3 or S4's in under a month. Apple can almost do that in a weekend, but within a month is damn good. It doesn't matter if their high-end devices account for 100% of 1% of their total handset sales, it's still a lot of of high0end devices that are clearly making a profit.

    I honestly don't get this where you and others are coming from here. Is this retaliation over the claims that the 5C is a failure? If so, that's neither objective nor fair.
  • Reply 115 of 170
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    jessi wrote: »
    This is why, anyone who claims something based on wikipedia as a source, is a fool.

    Where did you read that? Wikipedia?
  • Reply 116 of 170
    Quote:


    Instead, Judge Koh ruled during the trial that accusations by Samsung that Apple had "doctored" photographic evidence were simply "not credible."


     

    The internet made information free, and corporations and governments hired people to make it suspect.

  • Reply 117 of 170
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I honestly don't get this where you and others are coming from here. Is this retaliation over the claims that the 5C is a failure? If so, that's neither objective nor fair.

    One person said "Android buyers are cheap" and another person said "Samsung makes phones that cost as much as an iPhone or more"

    And I said "Samsung also sells phones that cost a lot less" and it spiraled from there.

    :)
  • Reply 118 of 170
    asdasd wrote: »
    Maybe I needs a /s ?

    Maybe you needs a :lol: !
    But I never heard Corrections admit to being another sock account for DED, Prince McLean, Slash Lane or whatever.
  • Reply 119 of 170
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,423member
    Maybe you needs a :lol: !
    But I never heard Corrections admit to being another sock account for DED, Prince McLean, Slash Lane or whatever.

    Yup, pretty common knowledge who he is. Just have to let the newer members know the connection once in awhile.
  • Reply 120 of 170
    hill60 wrote: »
    150 million Galaxy S models sold since 2010 vs 430 million iPhones over the same period, yet Apple are the "failures".

    <img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="40605" data-type="61" src="http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/40605/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 375px">

    Source Sydney Galaxy S5 launch Tuesday March 25 2014.

    Stop bashing Samsung. /s
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