Now as far as transgender... I'm with Apple ][- that's a mental condition. Just be gay. Only hermaphrodites should be able to "change" gender and not be labeled a loony.
You clearly understand that someone can be born with both male and female genitalia and from the context of your post you seem to be fine with them choosing the gender of the sex they most identify with, but you draw the line with someone being born a certain sex but identifying with the other sex? If one can have both sexes at once why can't one identify with a different sex? IOW, why does genitalia have to match the physical brain development that would make someone see themselves as being a different sex? it seems to me that nature is has a wide range of natural variances.
Now I do agree that it's a mental condition, but so is being gay, lesbian or straight. It's how you mentally see yourself.
You clearly understand that someone can be born with both male and female genitalia and from the context of your post you seem to be fine with them choosing the gender of the sex they most identify with, but you draw the line with someone being born a certain sex but identifying with the other sex? If one can have both sexes at once why can't one identify with a different sex? IOW, why does genitalia have to match the physical brain development that would make someone see themselves as being a different sex? it seems to me that nature is has a wide range of natural variances.
I just differ with you that the brain determines sexual orientation. Steve Irwin doesn't watch an alligator to see how it behaves to determine its gender. He sticks his finger in his anus.
Kindergarten cop said it best "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina". The fact people make it more complicated than that is unsettling.
I just differ with you that the brain determines sexual orientation. Steve Irwin doesn't watch an alligator to see how it behaves to determine its gender. He sticks his finger in his anus.
How do alligators determine the sex of potential mates?
Kindergarten cop said it best "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina". The fact people make it more complicated than that is unsettling.
1) You're talking about genitalia, but you've now ignored the hermaphrodite as an option. That certainly complicates thing but it's a part of nature. I hope we're past the point of thinking these rarities in nature are not actually natural and such children should be euthanized because it's too unsettling to think about.
2) Odette Annabel as grown up to be a looker. Kindergarten Cop reference, not a hermaphrodite reference as far as I know.
I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that quoting any religious text won't be helpful with this civil rights issue. If that's the case, I agree. It would be like quoting fortune cookies; perhaps there are some decent statements in some of them but as an argument it's not going to help make one's point. I'd think a rational atheist or agnostic could fine plenty of salient and sagacious statements in the Bible and every other religious books, and I think that any rational person of any region could also find salient and sagacious comments in another religion's sacred texts.
I think if one were to form their statement in their own words even if based on a fair and balanced comment from the Bible but without quoting it I think that would be fine.
How do alligators determine the sex of potential mates?
1) You're talking about genitalia, but you've now ignored the hermaphrodite as an option. That certainly complicates thing but it's a part of nature. I hope we're past the point of thinking these rarities in nature are not actually natural and such children should be euthanized because it's too unsettling to think about.
2) Odette Annabel as grown up to be a looker. Kindergarten Cop reference, not a hermaphrodite reference as far as I know.
No clue. Let's use dogs instead- they're mammals. They can tell by balls. Although my dog has gone after my leg before....
1- duh. Although, if I'm not mistaken, most were "turned" female by default.
2- I'm not a hermaphrodite expert. If I'm not mistaken (without research and from asking an OB 4 years ago)- they have a vagina, but also testes. Not a vagina and a penis- hence why almost all become by default, females.
Again, I'm not expert enough to know about this- and doubtful anyone on this forum is. That's why I gave the hermaphrodite a "not-loony" pass.
But when you're born with balls and a penis. And you want to cut them off and get a vagina. That's insanity. I mean seriously, what's the point? You like boys? Cool- be gay. Vice versa, if you're a girl, don't get a penis if you like girls (as if lesbians have sex anyway- only half joking here).
Something is seriously wrong in your head when your born a man or woman but think you aren't. I'm not intolerant of that person, but definitely intolerant of that act.
I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that quoting any religious text won't be helpful with this civil rights issue. If that's the case, I agree. It would be like quoting fortune cookies; perhaps there are some decent statements in some of them but as an argument it's not going to help make one's point. I'd think a rational atheist or agnostic could fine plenty of salient and sagacious statements in the Bible and every other religious books, and I think that any rational person of any region could also find salient and sagacious comments in another religion's sacred texts.
Sure I know what he meant. I just find fault with the original Bible lecturer. A lot of these types of religious fanatics just spout off whatever they heard on the sermon TV and haven't even read their own Bible and fail to understand that it is completely full of nonsense. Sorry if I am a bit jaded but going to church a couple times a week for my entire youth was a huge waste of time, but at least I know almost every verse in the Bible by memory so when these holier than thou fanatics start preaching I can quote them verse for verse to counter any argument they make.
That's why I gave the hermaphrodite a "not-loony" pass.
But when you're born with balls and a penis. And you want to cut them off and get a vagina. That's insanity. I mean seriously, what's the point? You like boys? Cool- be gay. Vice versa, if you're a girl, don't get a penis if you like girls (as if lesbians have sex anyway- only half joking here).
Something is seriously wrong in your head when your born a man or woman but think you aren't. I'm not intolerant of that person, but definitely intolerant of that act.
In this context, on this forum- abso-firickin-lutely
One of my pet peeves from both sides
Why are hermaphrodites given a pass? They, too, were born with a male genitalia in some form so why is it OK if they identify as female and actions to make that a reality, but it's not OK if someone is born identifying as the opposite sex (not feeling like they are gay) but feeling their whole life as if their mind was but into the wrong body.
In my life I've never once had such an ordeal to contend with but that is how I see the scenario which is why I see such a decision to be more difficult than any I've ever made and likely more difficult than I'll ever have to make. I think it's courageous for people to be their true self when society isn't ready to accept you for who you are. I consider you to be a reasonable and intelligent person so I do hope you try to consider what these fellow people must have to go through to make such a decision.
Sure I know what he meant. I just find fault with the original Bible lecturer. A lot of these types of religious fanatics just spout off whatever they heard on the sermon TV and haven't even read their own Bible and fail to understand that it is completely full of nonsense. Sorry if I am a bit jaded but going to church a couple times a week for my entire youth was a huge waste of time, but at least I know almost every verse in the Bible by memory so when these holier than thou fanatics start preaching I can quote them verse for verse to counter any argument they make.
Oh, well as a rebuttal to scripture I think quoting scripture is perfectly acceptable.
Why are hermaphrodites given a pass? They, too, were born with a male genitalia in some form so why is it OK if they identify as female and actions to make that a reality, but it's not OK if someone is born identifying as the opposite sex (not feeling like they are gay) but feeling their whole life as if their mind was but into the wrong body.
In my life I've never once had such an ordeal to contend with but that is how I see the scenario which is why I see such a decision to be more difficult than any I've ever made and likely more difficult than I'll ever have to make. I think it's courageous for people to be their true self when society isn't ready to accept you for who you are. I consider you to be a reasonable and intelligent person so I do hope you try to consider what these fellow people must have to go through to make such a decision.
Hermaphrodites at least had some form of both genetalia, so I can comprehend them having confusion.
But In essence I attribute it to a mental disorder. You yourself said "their mind". So were in agreement it's mental, just in disagreement if it's reasonable or not. I don't doubt they think it- that's not an issue- neither is their courage. It can't be proven they are telling the truth or if they have a disorder. I just don't agree with "their" reality- and I don't think we should be forced as a society to. This "accept everything" mentality is ridiculous.
Schizophrenics think they're all sorts of things- why is sexual orientation given a pass but thinking youre from outer space isn't?
Note: not saying they are schizophrenics, just making a point with another disorder.
If someone has a penis but want a vagina- that's fine- you should Get one. Just don't tell me you're a girl and expect me to believe it.
But In essence I attribute it to a mental disorder. You yourself said "their mind". So were in agreement it's mental, just in disagreement if it's reasonable or not.
I also said that being straight is in "your mind." You consciously know you identify yourself as male but you didn't consciously choose that identification.
Schizophrenics think they're all sorts of things- why is sexual orientation given a pass but thinking youre from outer space isn't?
I am surprised that you wrote that. That is some Apple ][ thinking; both the person and the timeframe when that computer was last for sale.
I also said that being straight is in "your mind." You consciously identify yourself as male but you didn't consciously choose that identification.
I can look in my pants and see what I was born with to know in a male. If I get amnesia and forget if I'm a guy or girl, I'll just glance in my underwear or look at my birth certificate and clear things up.
More than genitalia. Ovulation, breast tissue, body type, risk of gender-sensitive disease, prostate cancer, muscularity, fat needs, EVERYTHING in your body works like a male or female. The only thing that doesn't is their mind. Hence- a mental disorder.
I so disagree. Just have none of it. Then we see the same crap for both sides "love everyone" is rebutted with "can't eat cows" (Paraphrasing).
Refuting scripture with scripture is just a more socially acceptable version of calling someone a moron. "Oh yeah, so you say the Bible is infallible?" What about this [quote]? Sure, it usually ends as agree to disagree but I don't give these Bible thumpers a pass on anything because the contextual continuity of the Bible text is bogus in my opinion, not to mention the scientific contradictions.
I can look in my pants and see what I was born with to know in a male. If I get amnesia and forget if I'm a guy or girl, I'll just glance in my underwear or look at my birth certificate and clear things up.
More than genitalia. Ovulation, breast tissue, body type, risk of gender-sensitive disease, prostate cancer, muscularity, fat needs, EVERYTHING in your body works like a male or female. The only thing that doesn't is their mind. Hence- a mental disorder.
You honestly think you interests, personality, mentality and everything else about that make you sound male to someone that can't check out your "junk" is because you looked down at your crotch one day as a child and said, "Huh, I guess I need to start acting like a male because I have male genitalia." I don't think that was the case. I think you just happen to fall into the majority where your physical sex organ match your physical brain.
I can tell you I have never had to make a decision about such things. There was crossroad or turning point or any decision to be made.
I am surprised that you wrote that. That is some Apple ][ thinking; both the person and the timeframe when that computer was last for sale.
I was simply re-enforcing my belief it's a mental disorder. I don't know if it's a learned or an inherited disorder- maybe both- but I believe it is a disorder nonetheless.
I believe they think they are the opposite gender. And I also believe are incredibly courageous. I just think they're brain isn't right. Again- the brain is the only thing telling them they aren't the gender they were born- so what's wrong? Every single part of their body all the way down to their chromosomes? Or their brain?
Refuting scripture with scripture is just a more socially acceptable version of calling someone a moron. "Oh yeah, so you say the Bible is infallible?" What about this
? Sure, it usually ends as agree to disagree but I don't give these Bible thumpers a pass on anything because the contextual continuity of the Bible text is bogus in my opinion, not to mention the scientific contradictions.
You grew up in church- so you know Jesus said scripture is only the living word to those who believe.
So yes, when a Christian comes in touting scripture, he is being idiotic- because he's trying to convince a non believer- all the while, not believing what Jesus said. So head spinning. The whole thing annoys me to no end.
You honestly think you interests, personality, mentality and everything else about that make you sound male to someone that can't check out your "junk" is because you looked down at your crotch one day as a child and said, "Huh, I guess I need to start acting like a male because I have male genitalia." I don't think that was the case. I think you just happen to fall into the majority where your physical sex organ match your physical brain.
I can tell you I have never had to make a decision about such things. There was crossroad or turning point or any decision to be made.
Huh? How does a male act? Look- a male can wear a dress, work on an engine, or stay at home with the kids. I disagree with "gender specific" actions. It's primative. People should play to their strengths- whether male or female.
In fact, by saying "I think I'm a female" reinforces that ridiculous premise. You were born with a penis. You're a male. Period. Throw all that "how a male acts" crap out the window. If we don't define that having a penis means you're a male- then how in the hell do we define it? If you can bench 225?
I was simply re-enforcing my belief it's a mental disorder. I don't know if it's a learned or an inherited disorder- maybe both- but I believe it is a disorder nonetheless.
I believe they think they are the opposite gender. And I also believe are incredibly courageous. I just think they're brain isn't right. Again- the brain is the only thing telling them they aren't the gender they were born- so what's wrong? Every single part of their body all the way down to their chromosomes? Or their brain?
1) Gender and sex should not be conflated. Gender is cultural and has nothing to do with sex organs even though there is an overwhelming association within nearly all cutlers.
2) Based your comments then you'd have to think being gay is some sort of mental disorder, and not just a variation in nature? It certainly doesn't allow for the procreation of a species, but why does nature have to be so explicit? Clearly it's not or hermaphrodites wouldn't exist. If a fetus moving from female to male doesn't have the right on/off switches for the genitalia then why can't the same be true of the brain?
1) Gender and sex should not be conflated. Gender is cultural and has nothing to do with sex organs even though there is an overwhelming association within nearly all cutlers.
2) Based your comments then you'd have to think being gay is some sort of mental disorder, and not just a variation in nature? It certainly doesn't allow for the procreation of a species, but why does nature have to be so explicit? Clearly it's not or hermaphrodites wouldn't exist. If a fetus moving from female to male doesn't have the right on/off switches for the genitalia then why can't the same be true of the brain?
1) are you kidding? That's the most confining crap I've ever heard. Talk about gender stereotyping! Screw that. So you could technically be one gender in one culture and another in another? Come on man. This has gotten ridiculous.
2) nah. I think if you look at a guy and get a hard on- you're sexually attracted to him. I believe that's both inherited or learned. Both are absolutely legitimate feelings. Again- this hasn't been scientifically proven but that's my belief.
Ok- I agree with you- we'll let the fetus decide. Once the decision is made its final.
Comments
You clearly understand that someone can be born with both male and female genitalia and from the context of your post you seem to be fine with them choosing the gender of the sex they most identify with, but you draw the line with someone being born a certain sex but identifying with the other sex? If one can have both sexes at once why can't one identify with a different sex? IOW, why does genitalia have to match the physical brain development that would make someone see themselves as being a different sex? it seems to me that nature is has a wide range of natural variances.
Now I do agree that it's a mental condition, but so is being gay, lesbian or straight. It's how you mentally see yourself.
I just differ with you that the brain determines sexual orientation. Steve Irwin doesn't watch an alligator to see how it behaves to determine its gender. He sticks his finger in his anus.
Kindergarten cop said it best "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina". The fact people make it more complicated than that is unsettling.
How do alligators determine the sex of potential mates?
1) You're talking about genitalia, but you've now ignored the hermaphrodite as an option. That certainly complicates thing but it's a part of nature. I hope we're past the point of thinking these rarities in nature are not actually natural and such children should be euthanized because it's too unsettling to think about.
2) Odette Annabel as grown up to be a looker. Kindergarten Cop reference, not a hermaphrodite reference as far as I know.
Got it! Scripture is completely useless.
I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that quoting any religious text won't be helpful with this civil rights issue. If that's the case, I agree. It would be like quoting fortune cookies; perhaps there are some decent statements in some of them but as an argument it's not going to help make one's point. I'd think a rational atheist or agnostic could fine plenty of salient and sagacious statements in the Bible and every other religious books, and I think that any rational person of any region could also find salient and sagacious comments in another religion's sacred texts.
I think if one were to form their statement in their own words even if based on a fair and balanced comment from the Bible but without quoting it I think that would be fine.
1- duh. Although, if I'm not mistaken, most were "turned" female by default.
2- I'm not a hermaphrodite expert. If I'm not mistaken (without research and from asking an OB 4 years ago)- they have a vagina, but also testes. Not a vagina and a penis- hence why almost all become by default, females.
Again, I'm not expert enough to know about this- and doubtful anyone on this forum is. That's why I gave the hermaphrodite a "not-loony" pass.
But when you're born with balls and a penis. And you want to cut them off and get a vagina. That's insanity. I mean seriously, what's the point? You like boys? Cool- be gay. Vice versa, if you're a girl, don't get a penis if you like girls (as if lesbians have sex anyway- only half joking here).
Something is seriously wrong in your head when your born a man or woman but think you aren't. I'm not intolerant of that person, but definitely intolerant of that act.
In this context, on this forum- abso-firickin-lutely
One of my pet peeves from both sides
Sure I know what he meant. I just find fault with the original Bible lecturer. A lot of these types of religious fanatics just spout off whatever they heard on the sermon TV and haven't even read their own Bible and fail to understand that it is completely full of nonsense. Sorry if I am a bit jaded but going to church a couple times a week for my entire youth was a huge waste of time, but at least I know almost every verse in the Bible by memory so when these holier than thou fanatics start preaching I can quote them verse for verse to counter any argument they make.
Why are hermaphrodites given a pass? They, too, were born with a male genitalia in some form so why is it OK if they identify as female and actions to make that a reality, but it's not OK if someone is born identifying as the opposite sex (not feeling like they are gay) but feeling their whole life as if their mind was but into the wrong body.
In my life I've never once had such an ordeal to contend with but that is how I see the scenario which is why I see such a decision to be more difficult than any I've ever made and likely more difficult than I'll ever have to make. I think it's courageous for people to be their true self when society isn't ready to accept you for who you are. I consider you to be a reasonable and intelligent person so I do hope you try to consider what these fellow people must have to go through to make such a decision.
Oh, well as a rebuttal to scripture I think quoting scripture is perfectly acceptable.
But In essence I attribute it to a mental disorder. You yourself said "their mind". So were in agreement it's mental, just in disagreement if it's reasonable or not. I don't doubt they think it- that's not an issue- neither is their courage. It can't be proven they are telling the truth or if they have a disorder. I just don't agree with "their" reality- and I don't think we should be forced as a society to. This "accept everything" mentality is ridiculous.
Schizophrenics think they're all sorts of things- why is sexual orientation given a pass but thinking youre from outer space isn't?
Note: not saying they are schizophrenics, just making a point with another disorder.
If someone has a penis but want a vagina- that's fine- you should Get one. Just don't tell me you're a girl and expect me to believe it.
I so disagree. Just have none of it. Then we see the same crap for both sides "love everyone" is rebutted with "can't eat cows" (Paraphrasing).
I also said that being straight is in "your mind." You consciously know you identify yourself as male but you didn't consciously choose that identification.
I am surprised that you wrote that. That is some Apple ][ thinking; both the person and the timeframe when that computer was last for sale.
I can look in my pants and see what I was born with to know in a male. If I get amnesia and forget if I'm a guy or girl, I'll just glance in my underwear or look at my birth certificate and clear things up.
More than genitalia. Ovulation, breast tissue, body type, risk of gender-sensitive disease, prostate cancer, muscularity, fat needs, EVERYTHING in your body works like a male or female. The only thing that doesn't is their mind. Hence- a mental disorder.
Refuting scripture with scripture is just a more socially acceptable version of calling someone a moron. "Oh yeah, so you say the Bible is infallible?" What about this [quote]? Sure, it usually ends as agree to disagree but I don't give these Bible thumpers a pass on anything because the contextual continuity of the Bible text is bogus in my opinion, not to mention the scientific contradictions.
You honestly think you interests, personality, mentality and everything else about that make you sound male to someone that can't check out your "junk" is because you looked down at your crotch one day as a child and said, "Huh, I guess I need to start acting like a male because I have male genitalia." I don't think that was the case. I think you just happen to fall into the majority where your physical sex organ match your physical brain.
I can tell you I have never had to make a decision about such things. There was crossroad or turning point or any decision to be made.
I was simply re-enforcing my belief it's a mental disorder. I don't know if it's a learned or an inherited disorder- maybe both- but I believe it is a disorder nonetheless.
I believe they think they are the opposite gender. And I also believe are incredibly courageous. I just think they're brain isn't right. Again- the brain is the only thing telling them they aren't the gender they were born- so what's wrong? Every single part of their body all the way down to their chromosomes? Or their brain?
A lot of people in this thread are saying WAY more about themselves and their ignorance than they realize.
I'm outta here.
Huh? How does a male act? Look- a male can wear a dress, work on an engine, or stay at home with the kids. I disagree with "gender specific" actions. It's primative. People should play to their strengths- whether male or female.
In fact, by saying "I think I'm a female" reinforces that ridiculous premise. You were born with a penis. You're a male. Period. Throw all that "how a male acts" crap out the window. If we don't define that having a penis means you're a male- then how in the hell do we define it? If you can bench 225?
1) Gender and sex should not be conflated. Gender is cultural and has nothing to do with sex organs even though there is an overwhelming association within nearly all cutlers.
2) Based your comments then you'd have to think being gay is some sort of mental disorder, and not just a variation in nature? It certainly doesn't allow for the procreation of a species, but why does nature have to be so explicit? Clearly it's not or hermaphrodites wouldn't exist. If a fetus moving from female to male doesn't have the right on/off switches for the genitalia then why can't the same be true of the brain?
1) are you kidding? That's the most confining crap I've ever heard. Talk about gender stereotyping! Screw that. So you could technically be one gender in one culture and another in another? Come on man. This has gotten ridiculous.
2) nah. I think if you look at a guy and get a hard on- you're sexually attracted to him. I believe that's both inherited or learned. Both are absolutely legitimate feelings. Again- this hasn't been scientifically proven but that's my belief.
Ok- I agree with you- we'll let the fetus decide. Once the decision is made its final.