Samsung's big bet on Android actually a covert strategy to replace Android

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  • Reply 41 of 114
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member

    This is interesting in light of the ArsTechnica review of the S5.  From that review (emphasis mine):

     

    Quote:


    Besides the three clashing design styles, the Galaxy S5 app selection includes multiples of everything. Samsung wants to push its own software, but the company has a contractual obligation to include all of the Google apps. As a result, the device ships with two browsers, two voice assistant apps, two galleries, two app stores, three music players, and four texting apps.


     

    Samsung, due to their position, can do whatever they want to do.  And what they want to do is get the F away from Google and Android.  Tizen is clearly the future of Samsung.  There can't really be people who don't believe this.

     

    In the world of smartphones, what we have is a total duopoly.  Apple and Samsung account for 106% of worldwide smartphone profits.  That means that all the other companies combined -- COMBINED -- are losing money.  Samsung is the ONLY one who is doing ANYTHING with Android.  The only one.  HTC, LG, Moto -- they aren't doing anything.  Hell, it's a good question as to whether or not HTC will even be in business much longer.

     

    People who own a Samsung phone now will continue to own one once they go to Tizen.  And they will.  That will leave Android with a few companies selling phones that run it, selling them to very few customers, and not making any money doing it.  Once Samsung leaves Android behind, Android will effectively be dead.  Will it still be used?  Sure.  Will anyone talk about it or care?  No.

  • Reply 42 of 114
    This article makes a lot of sense. One might expect Apple to come up with a similar strategy if it was in Samsung's shoes. And we can see Apple still trying to free itself from corporate and technological dependencies that it sees as limiting its ability to control its own product evolution.

    So I think such a strategy will be good for the whole industry in general because the Android platform is far too fragmented and hence complicated for anyone to use as the basis of a successful product ecosystem. Android is surely becoming the Windows of the mobile computing industry. Breaking away from Android will be a very difficult, lengthy and risky move. But maybe its success will help keep Apple on its toes for many years to come and drive further rounds of innovation in the industry.
  • Reply 43 of 114
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member

    DED,

     

    I little background that might interest people.

     

    As people are aware Intel has been disperately trying to get into Mobile.  It turns out they are interweaved into what happened to Nokia and Samsung.

     

    Moblin (version 1).

    Intel created a mobile OS called Moblin  It was effectively a copy of Nokia earlier open source effect with their Nxxx line Mobile Internet devices. Remember N800? It was effectively a stripped down UI based on GTK running on ARM.  Intel pretty much copied it and repurposed it for their IA32 embedded HW chipset called Moorestown.  Remember, Anand Chandrasekher? The Qualcomm Marketing guy that said 64 bit ARM was all hype? Well he was the VP of this Intel BU making this chipset. Anyhow,  when it became obvious that 3D accelerator driver UIs where going to take over, the Intel SW group (Open Source Technology Group) purchased a company (expertise actually) called OpenedHand that had an OSS  toolkit called Clutter. Which was a UI that used the 3D accelerator.  With this new 3D Clutter based UI, Intel renamed the project Moblin 2.

     

    Moblin 2:

     However, Clutter was pretty immature and lacked many UI elements. In the search to find a customer to use the IA32 HW, Intel got together with Nokia.  By this time Nokia was in a panic over iPhone. Also about this time, Intel bought Infineon(they guys supplying GSM modem to iPhone).  Nokia brought to the table their QT framework and a project that they have been working on for next gen phone.  In exchange, Intel brought engineers Moblin 2 as a software foundation and the hope to sell Nokia IA32 and Infineon Baseband on next gen devices.  Merged together the project was renamed MeeGo supported both IA32 and ARM to mitigate risk. 

     

    Meego:

    When it become obvious that both Intel and Nokia were really good at HW but were no match for Apple SW expertise, Nokia abandoned ship and went with Microsoft.  Intel went looking for another partner to try to sell IA32 into the mobile.  They found Samsung who had developed a different UI based on Enlightenment with Linux underneath called Bada.    They struck a similar deal. In exchange for possibility of getting IA32 into Samsung phones, Intel would provide engineers to maintain the lower level stuff and a new project was spun out called Tizen.

     

    Tizen:

    Here we are today. However, I think this effort will likely be a failure just like Meego. Why? Because neither Samsung or Intel are good at SW. They are HW companies.   Samsung's best bet is to find someone good at software and merge with them if they want to pull away from Android. Or a crazy idea, merge with Google (if they will have them). However, I don't see what would in it for Google.  On the other hand, together they might be as strong as Apple, perhaps.

     

     

    so in summary, all this time Intel is involved with all this different OS project. Its the same low level Linux guts and generic middleware underneath (maintained by Intel), only the UI is changing. 

  • Reply 44 of 114
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snova View Post



    why would it not? There is already an ecosystem established.




    Because the market share of the other manufacturers is tiny.

    first, isn't the combined market share of all Android guys larger than Samsung? not that it matters

  • Reply 45 of 114
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     
    Originally Posted by snova View Post

    I honestly don't know.

     

    :err: … TAKE A STAB AT IT.


    you wouldn't like where I pull the answer out of. 

  • Reply 46 of 114
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member

    Taking into account that Samsung doesn't have any plan to release a Tizen smartphone almost until 2015, they are hiding very well its intentions about "ditching Android", almost as well as Google's "Android ditching".

  • Reply 47 of 114
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

     

    Taking into account that Samsung doesn't have any plan to release a Tizen smartphone almost until 2015, they are hiding very well its intentions about "ditching Android", almost as well as Google's "Android ditching".


    If we review history we will notice this will take the same path of the Nokia Meego smartphone efforts. Promises, demo to press, delays and then final realization its "not good enough".  I don't see it happening and the project will get cancelled unless they make some kind of acquisition of a SW company.  Or vs. versa. This is Samsung, folks. They whip out different models by the dozen if they want to. Its not the HW holding them back. Its the SW and they are no SW company. Just like Nokia.

  • Reply 48 of 114
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    snova wrote: »
    first, isn't the combined market share of all Android guys larger than Samsung? not that it matters

    Divided by how many manufacturers? Divided by how many high end phones they make that people who will invest in the ecosystem will buy?
  • Reply 49 of 114
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    aaronj wrote: »
    This is interesting in light of the ArsTechnica review of the S5.  From that review (emphasis mine):


    Samsung, due to their position, can do whatever they want to do.  And what they want to do is get the F away from Google and Android.  Tizen is clearly the future of Samsung.  There can't really be people who don't believe this.

    In the world of smartphones, what we have is a total duopoly.  Apple and Samsung account for 106% of worldwide smartphone profits.  That means that all the other companies combined -- COMBINED -- are losing money.  Samsung is the ONLY one who is doing ANYTHING with Android.  The only one.  HTC, LG, Moto -- they aren't doing anything.  Hell, it's a good question as to whether or not HTC will even be in business much longer.

    People who own a Samsung phone now will continue to own one once they go to Tizen.  And they will.  That will leave Android with a few companies selling phones that run it, selling them to very few customers, and not making any money doing it.  Once Samsung leaves Android behind, Android will effectively be dead.  Will it still be used?  Sure.  Will anyone talk about it or care?  No.

    Why haven't those same people bought Samsung tablets if they're so loyal to the brand? You're giving Samsung way too much credit.
  • Reply 50 of 114
    imemberimember Posts: 247member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    What is this, SamsungInsider.com? image

    How is this not relative with Apple? those documents they were shown in Apple vs Shamsung

     

     "Beating Apple is #1 Priority"  Once again this proves how smameful Shamsung company is! 

     

    While Apple's number 1 priority is to INNOVATE !!!

  • Reply 51 of 114
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snova View Post

     

     

    Tizen:

    Here we are today. However, I think this effort will likely be a failure just like Meego. Why? Because neither Samsung or Intel are good at SW. They are HW companies.   Samsung's best bet is to find someone good at software and merge with them if they want to pull away from Android. Or a crazy idea, merge with Google (if they will have them). However, I don't see what would in it for Google.  On the other hand, together they might be as strong as Apple, perhaps.

     

     

    so in summary, all this time Intel is involved with all this different OS project. Its the same low level Linux guts and generic middleware underneath (maintained by Intel), only the UI is changing. 


     

    Google's market cap is ~366B.  Samsung's is ~195B.

  • Reply 52 of 114
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snova View Post



    first, isn't the combined market share of all Android guys larger than Samsung? not that it matters




    Divided by how many manufacturers? Divided by how many high end phones they make that people who will invest in the ecosystem will buy?

    Samsung not strong enough and does not have a wide enough play. Its all about the Google ecosystem which it tightly coupled with Google services.  Samsung is free to try to leave, but someone else will take their place.  Plenty of Chinese guys around with deep pockets like Huawei, Lenovo and up and comers.  Samsung would need to build up effectively a Cloud as large as and with similar services as Apple iCloud including map services to try to compete. We saw how challenging that was right?  Not gonna happen. Samsung needs Google to be good enough or someone like Microsoft and we saw how that turn out for Nokia.

     

    Its not about the brand. Not enough people will follow. This has already been proven with the Nokia brand when they switched to Microsoft. People didn't follow. Same will happen with Samsung if they attempt to leave.  High Brand recognition is not enough.

  • Reply 53 of 114
    snovasnova Posts: 1,281member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snova View Post

     

     

    Tizen:

    Here we are today. However, I think this effort will likely be a failure just like Meego. Why? Because neither Samsung or Intel are good at SW. They are HW companies.   Samsung's best bet is to find someone good at software and merge with them if they want to pull away from Android. Or a crazy idea, merge with Google (if they will have them). However, I don't see what would in it for Google.  On the other hand, together they might be as strong as Apple, perhaps.

     

     

    so in summary, all this time Intel is involved with all this different OS project. Its the same low level Linux guts and generic middleware underneath (maintained by Intel), only the UI is changing. 


     

    Google's market cap is ~366B.  Samsung's is ~195B.


    your point?  doesn't matter which fish eat which fish.  Samsung needs Google more than Google needs Samsung.  Samsung is just a HW manufacturer with a big marketing budget. They can be replaced.

  • Reply 54 of 114
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snova View Post

     

    Samsung not strong enough and does not have a wide enough play. Its all about the Google ecosystem which it tightly coupled with Google services.  Samsung is free to try to leave, but someone else will take their place.  Plenty of Chinese guys around with deep pockets like Huawei, Lenovo and up and comers.  Samsung would need to build up effectively a Cloud as large as and with similar services as Apple iCloud including map services to try to compete. We saw how challenging that was right?  Not gonna happen. Samsung needs Google to be good enough or someone like Microsoft and we saw how that turn out for Nokia.

     

    Its not about the brand. Not enough people will follow. This has already been proven with the Nokia brand when they switched to Microsoft. People didn't follow. Same will happen with Samsung if they attempt to leave.  High Brand recognition is not enough.


     

    Except Nokia was already near death.  Samsung is the ONLY Android phone maker with any traction whatsoever in the market.  They are the only Android company making any money.  Comparing them to Nokia is absurd.

  • Reply 55 of 114
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snova View Post

     

    your point?  doesn't matter which fish eat which fish.  Samsung needs Google more than Google needs Samsung.  Samsung is just a HW manufacturer with a big marketing budget. They can be replaced.


     

    By whom?  Samsung's marketing budget is between $10B and $15B annually.  Do you know how many people own Samsung products including phones?

     

    People, in general, rarely switch up brands unless they have a great reason.  And away from tech site message boards, most people wouldn't even notice the difference between Tizen and Android.  If they can play a game, make a call, download some music, watch "Frozen" -- they're fine.

     

    Trust me: Aside from geeks, your average person is FAR more likely to follow Samsung than to follow Android.

  • Reply 56 of 114
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

     

     

    By whom?  Samsung's marketing budget is between $10B and $15B annually.  Do you know how many people own Samsung products including phones?

     

    People, in general, rarely switch up brands unless they have a great reason.  And away from tech site message boards, most people wouldn't even notice the difference between Tizen and Android.  If they can play a game, make a call, download some music, watch "Frozen" -- they're fine.

     

    Trust me: Aside from geeks, your average person is FAR more likely to follow Samsung than to follow Android.


    Android at least has the semblance of an ecosystem, Samsung / Tizen really doesn't.

  • Reply 57 of 114
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

     

    Android at least has the semblance of an ecosystem, Samsung / Tizen really doesn't.


     

    But it wouldn't be tough for them to fix that.

     

    Getting HTC and LG and Huawie to actually make money selling phones, on the other hand, is going to be pretty tough.

  • Reply 58 of 114
    Sorry Fanboys, but Android is still superior to IOS in almost every single way. See my latest blog post about how Android is still superior:

    http://www.ideoveo.com/2014/04/15-ways-android-beats-ios.html

    And Samsung has invested too much in Android to abandon it...
  • Reply 59 of 114
    Somehow, I don't see the appeal to the customer, when Sammy says: "Here's a phone that's good enough for you , running an OS that's good enough for you".

    Rather off putting, really!
  • Reply 60 of 114
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    Somehow, I don't see the appeal to the customer, when Sammy says: "Here's a phone that's good enough for you , running an OS that's good enough for you".



    Rather off putting, really!

     

    They will just advertise the same way they've always done.  I'd be willing to bet that somewhere north of 75% of phone owners couldn't tell you anything about Android beyond that's what their phone is using.

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