Samsung's big bet on Android actually a covert strategy to replace Android

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  • Reply 81 of 114
    smalmsmalm Posts: 674member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    What is this, SamsungInsider.com? image

    What this is? Fascinating!

  • Reply 82 of 114
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    DED thinks that Google bought Motorola Mobility for something other than its patents. :lol:
  • Reply 83 of 114
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

     

    Excellent point. Android fans have invested heavily in Samsung hardware since it carries the flag for Android. If Samsung moves away from Android will Android fans move away from Samsung? Are Samsung customers Samsung fans or Android fans? We know Apple customers are Apple fans in general, not necessarily iOS fans.


     

    What does Samsung do for Maps if they stop using Android?  Maybe they license someone else's? (Nokia/MS?)

  • Reply 84 of 114
    Wow there really evil. From what I've read from the bottom it seems as I they would hang on to Android until they could built up their exposure as much as possible and then dumb Google as not many other Cellphone/tablet companies support Android as much as samsung and then go to there tizen platform. I think Apple would crush them and Google would join Apple against samsung. I hope this happens.
  • Reply 85 of 114
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post



    Wow there really evil. From what I've read from the bottom it seems as I they would hang on to Android until they could built up their exposure as much as possible and then dumb Google as not many other Cellphone/tablet companies support Android as much as samsung and then go to there tizen platform. I think Apple would crush them and Google would join Apple against samsung. I hope this happens.

    honestly...I'd be down for that. I REALLLLLLLY do not like Samsung...I'm a Nexus buyer and I even avoided the Nexus program when they made the NS and the GN. I do not buy their monitors, their TVs, nothing.

     

    I know all companies have skeletons in their closet but Samsung also has some in the Kitchen, the living Room, the bathroom, a skeletal totem pole in the front yard and a graveyard in the backyard.

     

    How anyone can support them directly is beyond me (well, usually due to the general ignorance of tech related matters upon most people).

     

    I disagree with your assertion that Google is dumb...Google put themselves in a position where Android could fail miserably and they will still make money...but I do think they've been shortsighted when it came to Android and are now scrambling to make it up.  I've been with Android since 1.0 and OMG was it a POS system. If it wasn't for JesusFreke rooting the G1 I would've returned it within a week and went with the iPhone.

     

    I still may go iPhone...if the rumors of the iP6 are true. The Nexus is cheap enough to buy it for the hell of it regardless.

  • Reply 86 of 114
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    Aren't C#./.NET programs also run using a virtual machine (the Common Language Runtime)? What are the main advantages of C# over Java?


     




    Yes they are.



    As to immediate differences.



    C# is compile before distribution vs Java's Compile at Run Time. Java is made more portable by that design but also incredibly generic and hardware limited in a way. C# and it's C bretheren compiling before distribution can lead to some portability problems because they compile for their target hardware, but they make MUCH better use of the hardware than Java does. It also means Java apps are slower on startup than C# equivalent apps.



    The C's also because of the above have better low level access and functions.



    C# is a lot friendlier with other languages than Java is. Java can't natively interact with other languages, it has to go through something like COBRA or JNI. Java is also fairly restrictive on elements and words that you can use in JNI. C#'s design made it incredibly friendly for cross language interoperability. It still needs extensions depending on the language, but nowhere near Java amount.



    C# Evolves a lot faster than Java does. It is also more feature rich. Before C#/.NET 3.0 the opposite was true.



    Java's Open Source Nature naturally gives it more reach than C# does, however thanks to the work of several open source projects such as Mono, C# has been extended past Windows, and onto platforms like Linux, BSD, Solaris and iOS.



    C# has better support for Parallelism than Java does.



    Also LINQ is one the greatest and most distinguishing features available to the .NET framework.(Though it has seen ports to other languages, Java included.)



    Anything else would basically amount to throwing around pure technobabble words.



    I'm sure there are advantages to Java depending on the application, but I'm personally not a big fan of the language.



    I personally know an older lady friend who has to write her apps in Java first and then translate them over to C++ because she dislikes the syntax of the latter greatly.

    Fair points, but I do have a comment about the first one regarding compile before distribution vs. just-in-time compilation. While it's true that JIT incurs a startup penalty, shouldn't that penalty apply only to the first few runs? Both Oracle's JVM and Dalvik cache the JIT compiler output. From Oracle's documentation:

     

    "Additionally, the compiler can take advantage of Oracle JVM's class resolution model to optionally persist compiled Java methods across database calls, sessions, or instances. Such persistence avoids the overhead of unnecessary recompilations across sessions or instances, when it is known that semantically the Java code has not changed." (http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/java.111/b31225/chnine.htm#BABDCIBH)

  • Reply 87 of 114
    wad3gwad3g Posts: 1member
    Articles such as this always seem to forget mentioning how extremely difficult it would be for Samsung to replace Android with Tizen. Android itself isn't attractive to a vast majority of OEM manufacturers - it's Google that makes it attractive.

    Google's Services is what makes Android an attractive OS for manufacturers. If Samsung is to replace Android with Tizen then it's going to have to build or find a replacement for ALL the services Google provides: Gmail, Google Maps, YouTube, Google%u2019s Play Store. This goes without saying the most popular apps the platform as a whole would be lacking.

    I also completely disagree with the last few sentences of this article, "That explains why Google attempted to establish Motorola Mobility as an Android hardware maker under its own control, at least until it became obvious that the strategy wasn't working".

    Google didn't attempt to establish Motorola "under its own control". Google forbade it's Android division from even working with Motorola. In hind sight it seems pretty obvious the Motorola acquisition was always about the patents and nothing else.

    I use both Apple and Android products on a daily basis and this article's "opinions" certainty seem to be from an Apple-only user with blinders on.
  • Reply 88 of 114
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    Rather than seeing other Android makers as part of a collective family or alliance, Samsung saw HTC, once the world's leading Windows Phone maker then a pioneering adopter of Android, as a competitor to stop.

     

    In other news, the Pope is Catholic.

     

    Of course it did. Even for DED that is a ridiculous comment. Is Samsung supposed to have thought, "we won't compete against HTC because they're a fellow Android manufacturer - let's just let them take our marketshare"?

     

    If you think multi-billion-dollar global corporations are motivated by this sort of ideology then you don't understand anything about the industry and should probably stop talking.

  • Reply 89 of 114
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    euphonious wrote: »
    In other news, the Pope is Catholic.

    I'm not so sure about that. :D

    Pope Francis is awesome!
  • Reply 90 of 114
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,361member
    Only slightly off-topic:

    I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink. Passing by the laptop display I heard this conversation between an elderly man and the fairly young Staples salesperson. The words may not be exact but here's the gist of it:

    Salesman: Can I help you find something?
    Customer: Just looking for a Chromebook.
    Salesman: [I]*laughs*[/I] . Why?
    Customer: I need another computer for email and bills and my daughter suggested it. She has one.
    Salesman: She uses a Chromebook? For what? [I]*laughs again*[/I]
    Customer: What do you think I should get?
    Salesman: Personally I like Apple laptops.
    Customer: Where are those?
    Salesman: We don't carry them here. Some people think they're too expensive but if you can afford it that's what I think you should get.
    Customer: Do you have anything here? I don't really want to spend a lot.

    This is where I stuck my nose in:
    Me: What do you want to do besides email?
    Customer: That's mostly it. I pay bills and my wife uses it for recipes, pictures of the grandkids. Look at stuff for the house, medical stuff. Not a lot Shopping maybe.
    Salesman: We have a basic laptop over here for less than $400, It might work. It's a Windows machine so it's slow but if you don't do much it's a good price.
    Me: Why not a Chromebook? It costs less than that.
    Salesman: *snickers* It doesn't do anything.
    Me: Really? What doesn't it do?
    Salesman: [I]*makes believe he's looking at one of the computers as an excuse to look away* [/I]I don't really know. I've never used one myself. I've just heard about them. [I](Now he turning red)[/I]
    Me: I think it will work for everything he said he needs it for. All his email and bills, shopping, keeping up with the kids pictures, editing pictures to send back, listening to music, research medical stuff. . . It's more secure, virus-proof as your Mac, always up to date, doesn't get hot so it won't burn his lap. Pretty much anything he'd do with the $400 laptop except the Chromebook is faster, doesn't cost as much, and easier. Anyway, sorry for butting in.
    Salesman: [I]*nervous laugh*[/I] Well anything is better than Windows.

    This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.
  • Reply 91 of 114
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Only slightly off-topic:

    I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink. Passing by the laptop display I heard this conversation between an elderly man and the fairly young Staples salesperson. The words may not be exact but here's the gist of it:

    Salesman: Can I help you find something?
    Customer: Just looking for a Chromebook.
    Salesman: *laughs* . Why?
    Customer: I need another computer for email and bills and my daughter suggested it. She has one.
    Salesman: She uses a Chromebook? For what? *laughs again*
    Customer: What do you think I should get?
    Salesman: Personally I like Apple laptops.
    Customer: Where are those?
    Salesman: We don't carry them here. Some people think they're too expensive but if you can afford it that's what I think you should get.
    Customer: Do you have anything here? I don't really want to spend a lot.

    This is where I stuck my nose in:
    Me: What do you want to do besides email?
    Customer: That's mostly it. I pay bills and my wife uses it for recipes, pictures of the grandkids. Look at stuff for the house, medical stuff. Not a lot Shopping maybe.
    Salesman: We have a basic laptop over here for less than $400, It might work. It's a Windows machine so it's slow but if you don't do much it's a good price.
    Me: Why not a Chromebook? It costs less than that.
    Salesman: *snickers* It doesn't do anything.
    Me: Really? What doesn't it do?
    Salesman: *makes believe he's looking at one of the computers as an excuse to look away* I don't really know. I've never used one myself. I've just heard about them. (Now he turning red)
    Me: I think it will work for everything he said he needs it for. All his email and bills, shopping, keeping up with the kids pictures, editing pictures to send back, listening to music, research medical stuff. . . It's more secure, virus-proof as your Mac, always up to date, doesn't get hot so it won't burn his lap. Pretty much anything he'd do with the $400 laptop except the Chromebook is faster, doesn't cost as much, and easier. Anyway, sorry for butting in.
    Salesman: *nervous laugh* Well anything is better than Windows.

    This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.

    1) Is this what they told you post about in your weekly shillnanigans meeting at Google?¡ 8-) (THIS IS JUST A JOKE)

    2) I bet that happens far too often. The fact that the store doesn't sell Macs should mean the employee never bring it up. He shouldn't lie to the customer, but he shouldn't bring it up. He's getting paid to push products sold by Staples. I probably would have said something to the employee because it's not good for Staples or his job.

    3) Staples sells iPads and based on his usage that may have been a better for his needs than Chromebook. It's only if someone needs to type a lot but doesn't need extensive access to desktop apps that I'd think Chromebook would be a better fit for the average user. I think a couple follow up questions on the type of device could have been asked. That said, if he currently uses Gmail, Picasa, Google Docs then Chromebook would weigh more heavily in such a decision but I'm guessing that isn't the case.
  • Reply 92 of 114
    jexusjexus Posts: 373member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

    Fair points, but I do have a comment about the first one regarding compile before distribution vs. just-in-time compilation. While it's true that JIT incurs a startup penalty, shouldn't that penalty apply only to the first few runs? Both Oracle's JVM and Dalvik cache the JIT compiler output. From Oracle's documentation:

     

    "Additionally, the compiler can take advantage of Oracle JVM's class resolution model to optionally persist compiled Java methods across database calls, sessions, or instances. Such persistence avoids the overhead of unnecessary recompilations across sessions or instances, when it is known that semantically the Java code has not changed." (http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/java.111/b31225/chnine.htm#BABDCIBH)

     

    It's a fair point, and I will concede to it from the looks of it.
  • Reply 93 of 114
    gatorguy wrote: »
    I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink.

    This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.

    Few points:
    Printer ink? Do people still print things? I thought we went digital as a culture, where things could be exchanged electronically. I even take paper invoices and checks I get and scan them for information archives. And Apple Stores will email your receipts. Ink jets and their consumables feel like an anachronism. I'm curious as to what people need to print these days.

    The salesperson is obviously not there to be the source of sage advice when it comes to tech; he is instead there to push whatever tech they got to sell (Windows PCs). If he was a more skilled salesman, he would have been on top for the situation and been able to manipulate the "Dad" into a sale--and made "Dad" feel like he got a great deal for his money.

    This is why I only to use salesmen as stock checkers. I never answer the "why?" question from salesmen. I am not there to justify my purchase decisions to them, I am there to conduct a retail transaction. They ask "why" to test whether you are firm or malleable about your buying decision--and most customers who walk into retail like the "Dad" are malleable. Malleable in the sense that the "ChromeBook" inquiry is really an unmet need "email, web etc." that the salesman could fill with his Windows laptops.
  • Reply 94 of 114
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,361member
    Few points:
    Printer ink? Do people still print things? I thought we went digital as a culture, where things could be exchanged electronically. I even take paper invoices and checks I get and scan them for information archives. And Apple Stores will email your receipts. Ink jets and their consumables feel like an anachronism. I'm curious as to what people need to print these days.

    Well, we're not quite to the point of an all-digital world yet. I still have customers that want a paper copy of an invoice as a receipt. or a paper receipt for a job deposit. Most people don't even have an e-mail address connected to their credit/debit card so that I can automatically forward an electronic receipt.

    Besides, 80% of my business depends on folks needing printed materials (canvas, fabric, vinyl, paper) so I'd just as soon the need never went away. :D Of course the 440cc cartridges I use for that don't come from Staples.
  • Reply 95 of 114
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Well, we're not quite to the point of an all-digital world yet. I still have customers that want a paper copy of an invoice as a receipt. or a paper receipt for a job deposit. Most people don't even have an e-mail address connected to their credit/debit card so that I can automatically forward an electronic receipt.

    Besides, 80% of my business depends on folks needing printed materials (canvas, fabric, vinyl, paper) so I'd just as soon the need never went away. :D Of course the 440cc cartridges I use for that don't come from Staples.

    I can top that :)

    I shoot video of dance recitals and stuff... and I sell DVDs.

    But guess what.... I also PRINT on the surface of the DVD too!

    It seems there's still a market for physical media and printing... even though I keep hearing that they are dying media :D

    700 700
  • Reply 96 of 114
    vvswarupvvswarup Posts: 334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NormM View Post

     

     

    What does Samsung do for Maps if they stop using Android?  Maybe they license someone else's? (Nokia/MS?)


     

    Who said they can't use Google Maps? I don't think Google will block Samsung from Maps. Samsung is the dominant smartphone manufacturer and in the Android space, they're the only one making money. Google isn't Apple or Microsoft. Google needs users' eyeballs looking at ads. Eyeballs are eyeballs. It doesn't matter if it's an iOS or Android user looking at ads. I doubt Google will refuse to allow Samsung to use Maps.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post



    Wow there really evil. From what I've read from the bottom it seems as I they would hang on to Android until they could built up their exposure as much as possible and then dumb Google as not many other Cellphone/tablet companies support Android as much as samsung and then go to there tizen platform. I think Apple would crush them and Google would join Apple against samsung. I hope this happens.

     

    They're not evil. They're being smart business people. Google bought out Motorola, a smartphone manufacturer. Despite Google's assurances, Android OEMs weren't on a level playing field while Motorola was owned by Google. Maybe Google didn't give Motorola preference on Android updates but while owned by Google, Motorola was able to ring up loss after loss because Google was willing to eat them. HTC didn't have a Google to eat its losses. 

     

    If Samsung does eventually dump Android altogether for Tizen, it will be even more proof that vertical integration is what really works, especially for the OEM. 

  • Reply 97 of 114
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post





    I can top that image



    I shoot video of dance recitals and stuff... and I sell DVDs.



    But guess what.... I also PRINT on the surface of the DVD too!



    It seems there's still a market for physical media and printing... even though I keep hearing that they are dying media image




     

    What is that? a VHS duplicator? ;)

  • Reply 98 of 114
    What is that? a VHS duplicator? ;)

    Worse... it's Betamax

    :lol:
  • Reply 99 of 114
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichL View Post



    DED thinks that Google bought Motorola Mobility for something other than its patents. image



    For two reason actually (well that is what can be concluded by the resell) the patents and Motorola's Advanced Technology and Projects (ATAP) department (which it also kept).

  • Reply 100 of 114
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Manufacture and/or designer? Meaning, Apple seems to hire out every bit of their HW manufacturing but they excellent design teams, as noted by pretty much everything they sell, save for their standard headphones.



    I would say both (when it comes to components), f.e. Samsung's displays (which it also designs itself) are really good. So are their RAM-modules, SoC's are a bit hit and miss (some were/are great others not so much), their storage solutions are also really good,....

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