Apple, Inc. and the pursuit of affordable luxury electronics

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  • Reply 181 of 270
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

    Granted, it doesnt turn on anymore


     

    Aww, what a shame. Mine’s still a little trooper.

  • Reply 182 of 270
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Aww, what a shame. Mine’s still a little trooper.


     

    Yeah.  Just left in a box for too long.  If I had kept up with it, I'm sure it would still be working.

     

    Oh, well. :)

  • Reply 183 of 270
    I don't like thinking of Apple as a "luxury" brand. Apple has always thought about functionality first, and a well-crafted vehicle for that functionality. While Apple has been known to use more expensive materials than the competition, it has always been in the interest of improving the weight/durability mix or other aspects of the user experience. Only the Gil Amelio 20th Anniversary Mac is dolled up with stuff like leather trim that seems to have no other purpose than to say, "This is a luxury item."

    Apple has always made products for the general consumer, but products that don't treat consumers like chumps. The products may cost more, in some cases, but it's only to purchase higher quality craftsmanship and better support; not so the iPhone can be plated in 24K gold or hand delivered by some guy wearing white gloves and a cheap tuxedo. I don't see customers at the Apple store being served wine and cheese while they wait for their appointment with a "personal product assistant."

    Apple sells thoughtful and well-made products. It's sad that nowadays that's all it takes to count as "luxury."
  • Reply 184 of 270
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    The original iPhone was also not subsidized.

    As CEO, she was probably obligated to stay 6 months. Besides, the bonus stuff is just rumors.



    Again, 35% growth rate is unsustainable. What's Amazon's or Google's growth rate? Those who want that are just money grubbers. The TV set and wearable markets are small relative to the smart phone market. In addition, the set market is a low margin affair. You're not getting 30% growth from that. In addition, wearables and TV sets aren't upgraded often. TV sets last years and I'm assuming wearables would last as long as well. My watch is almost 10 years old and my tv is 8.

     

    35% growth rate is unsustainable?  Well, it depends on how you look at it.  The way they've been going, yeah, but they haven't really done anything to increase any markets with new product introductions for existing markets or for new markets.  They aren't doing anything to go after the Enterprise market, they haven't released any larger screen phone models, and they haven't been able to prove how they monetize what they are doing with the auto industry, and they haven't opened up any new markets, so yeah, they can't sustain 35% which is why Wall Street isn't pumping the stock higher.  DUH.



    Apple has been a little lax in product introductions.  Face it, Tim Cook was the best choice for a replacement, but he's not exactly the most aggressive personality.  I think he lacks that thing CEOs should have to get things done a little sooner.  Jobs knew how to push people, I don't know if Cook knows how to do this as well.

     

    Last year, Tim Cook said smugly, that they had an "ARMY" of products to be announced.  Oh really?   Here's what wasn't refreshed during the end of 2013.

     

    1.  The Entire iPod line up.

    2.  The MacMini

    3.  AppleTV

    4.  They dropped the 15 inch MacBook Pro non-retina.

     

    They didn't announce any wearables, they didn't grow the Mac lineup with newer headless models to go after different price points between the MacMini and MacPro, which they have a HUGE gap in.  No matter what you say, the MacMini are NOT iMacs without a head.  You obviously need some work in comparing product specs.  They didn't announce anything else.  And they had production issues with the iPhone 5S, certain models of iPads and they are still 4 to 5 week lead time on MacPros.  So, they do have room for improvement in the sales department and product announcement area.  And that's why Wall Street isn't pumping up the stock to $700 a share.   Cook needs some, how do they say in Spanish.......... Cojones.

  • Reply 185 of 270
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I think that's a very silly way to look at life. You seem to be saying that if Apple ships a dud, you'll jump ship. It's like saying, if you get a bad apple, you'll never eat apples again, but change to other fruit. So short-sighted!
    I'm not sure how you got that. One dud, no. But many duds and their competitors are now offerings better products at betters prices, absolutely.

    Being loyal to a company means you'll only buy from them regardless of what they produce. I will analyze and scrutinize every single piece of kit that is out there and buy what best suits my needs. I don't love Apple because I can't have "an intense feeling of deep affection" for them. I have a long history of cooperative interaction with Apple but that is not an interaction I will continue to artificially force if they are become less than ideal for my particular needs.
  • Reply 186 of 270
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    drblank wrote: »
    35% growth rate is unsustainable?  Well, it depends on how you look at it.

    Technically speaking all growth will come to an end given enough time. Even the Universe will stop expanding one day.
  • Reply 187 of 270
    sky kingsky king Posts: 189member
    Kind of interesting to, once again, see the analysts be wrong...and still retain their jobs as analysts. Maybe that tells us something about the value of the news services in general.
  • Reply 188 of 270
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,927member
    1. So much wrong in your comment. What other company has 35% growth rate? Why is only Apple expected to grow that much all the time? iPads are being used in the majority if Fortune 500 companies. There's your enterprise market.
    2. Cook doesn't push people? iOS 7 was released in less than a year. Forstall was fired due to Maps. Next question.
    3. Did he say "Army"? I don't recall that but he did say end of 2013 AND throughout 2014. I can see where you conveniently left that out.
    4. iPod market is shrinking. Only nominal updates are needed.
    5. Omg! No wearables? How will Apple catch up? I forgot they were first in mp3 players, smartphones, tablets, etc. oh wait, that's revisionist history.
    6. There will be no Mac minitower. Apple focuses. You do realize the iMac fits nicely between the mini and pro. Why add more customer confusion like during the Dark Ages?
    7. You think Apple would never has production issues at any other time of year?
    8. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Apple announces products when the products are ready and not to fill some arbitrary gap in a calendar. Deal with it.
  • Reply 189 of 270
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     



    Really? Shocking. Spectacular software.

     

    Hmm. Why? They could have the appropriate hardware out in… oh, you mean three years before their entire actively sold lineup is compatible. Bah, silly.

     

    Now you’ve done it. ;)


    I heard the name a couple of years ago, but I haven't the need for it.  Why would i need it?   I have no use for it.

     

    Putting internal 24 Bit DACs in their entire product line would take 3 years. No need for it?  Well, if they want to do well with 24 bit audio on iTunes, they kind of need it so that the people that don't want to buy an external DAC would still be able to play 24 bit sound files.  That's the only way to do it.  Obviously you don't want or think you want 24 bit, but once you hear it, you'll want it.

     

    Whatever.  There is a substantial difference from16/44 to 24/96 or 24/192.  Have you ever heard a 24/96 or 24/192 file vs a 16 bit file through a 24/192 DAC? Obviously, you might be considered deaf if you can't hear the difference.   It's substantial.

  • Reply 190 of 270
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

     

     

    No offense, but you're on crack.

     

    And I'd love to see you say that Angela Ahrendts in person.


    When has there ever been an announcement of someone in upper management taking 6 months to leave one company to move to another?  That's not normally done.  When the former CEO of HP left to Oracle, that happened VERY quickly.  I'm sorry, but I don't do drugs and I would have NO problem tell Angela to her face.  What's she going to do if I told her that?   NOTHING.  She'd probably have to admit that she should have made the transition a lot sooner.  

     

    No offense, but I think you might want to go do some research and see what person in Corporate History has ever taken longer than a month or two to leave one high ranking position with one company to go to another high ranking position with another?  That's not normal.  What's normal is taking less than 30 Days to transition.

  • Reply 191 of 270
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    drblank wrote: »
    I think he lacks that thing CEOs should have to get things done a little sooner.  Jobs knew how to push people, I don't know if Cook knows how to do this as well.

    What isn't getting done?
    Last year, Tim Cook said smugly, that they had an "ARMY" of products to be announced.  Oh really?   Here's what wasn't refreshed during the end of 2013.

    I'm not see what wasn't released as proof against what was released. Last year I bought a new new MBP, iPhone and iPad mini because all were great products. I have an army new of products from Apple. I didn't buy the previou iPhone 5, the iPad 4 original iPad mini, or the several generations of MBP but in late 2013 I bought all of them because they had sufficient innovations to suit my needs.

    Unde Cook Apple has released the best Macs, best iPhones and best iPads to date, as well as major, excellent updates to their OSes, including the archaic looking iOS 6 being removed and Mac OS X being renamed, and all of them plus their productivity apps being revamped. The Mac Pro, while not going to change their bottom line, is apparently so popular that ordering takes a long time. Apple has gone more green and they've set themselves for future successes going forward.

    I don't get how anyone can judge Cook as a bad CEO because he's not doing what their competitors do. He's doing exactly what Jobs would do by waiting for a product to be ready. That means the technology needs to be there or it's going to fail miserably like the Newton. Wishful thinking does not win a market! There is no need for Apple to release any wearable before its time because that is how you sour the customer to your product. Try giving an anxious child lemonade before you add sugar and see if wants you to give him more later on.
  • Reply 192 of 270
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    The original iPhone was also not subsidized.

    As CEO, she was probably obligated to stay 6 months. Besides, the bonus stuff is just rumors.



    Again, 35% growth rate is unsustainable. What's Amazon's or Google's growth rate? Those who want that are just money grubbers. The TV set and wearable markets are small relative to the smart phone market. In addition, the set market is a low margin affair. You're not getting 30% growth from that. In addition, wearables and TV sets aren't upgraded often. TV sets last years and I'm assuming wearables would last as long as well. My watch is almost 10 years old and my tv is 8.

    http://appadvice.com/appnn/2014/04/angela-ahrendts-start-date-at-apple-may-be-delayed-over-bonus

     

    I know TVs aren't upgraded that often, but that's the dumb TV market.  A smartTV that had more functionality with computing power internally might get upgraded more often because it does more than just displaying TVs and Movies.  So I think the SmartTV market, if done properly might get upgraded more often due to heavier reliance on internal computing power to play video games (how often do households upgrade video game consoles?), etc.

  • Reply 193 of 270
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    What isn't getting done?

    I'm not see what wasn't released as proof against what was released. Last year I bought a new new MBP, iPhone and iPad mini because all were great products. I have an army new of products from Apple. I didn't buy the previou iPhone 5, the iPad 4 original iPad mini, or the several generations of MBP but in late 2013 I bought all of them because they had sufficient innovations to suit my needs.



    Unde Cook Apple has released the best Macs, best iPhones and best iPads to date, as well as major, excellent updates to their OSes, including the archaic looking iOS 6 being removed and Mac OS X being renamed, and all of them plus their productivity apps being revamped. The Mac Pro, while not going to change their bottom line, is apparently so popular that ordering takes a long time. Apple has gone more green and they've set themselves for future successes going forward.



    I don't get how anyone can judge Cook as a bad CEO because he's not doing what their competitors do. He's doing exactly what Jobs would do by waiting for a product to be ready. That means the technology needs to be there or it's going to fail miserably like the Newton. Wishful thinking does not win a market! There is no need for Apple to release any wearable before its time because that is how you sour the customer to your product. Try giving an anxious child lemonade before you add sugar and see if wants you to give him more later on.

    They didn't refresh a lot of products in over a year and they haven't entered new markets.   When Jobs was in office and they got on a role, they started product announcements every quarter.  It's not that way anymore, it's all being pushed into the last quarter of the year.  Jobs NEVER did that.  He would spread out product announcement with new S/W or new H/W every quarter there was some form of announcement.  They used to do product refreshes with speed bumps every 6 months.  I can understand once a year updates for desktops and laptops, but even that's not being done.  They haven't released anything since Oct.  That's now going on 6 months.  I'm just saying that Wall Street's view is that 6 months for no product announcements from Apple makes em nervous.  PERIOD. It's not normal for Apple to wait longer than 3 months between any sort of product announcement.

  • Reply 194 of 270
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,927member
    drblank wrote: »
    When has there ever been an announcement of someone in upper management taking 6 months to leave one company to move to another?  That's not normally done.  When the former CEO of HP left to Oracle, that happened VERY quickly.  I'm sorry, but I don't do drugs and I would have NO problem tell Angela to her face.  What's she going to do if I told her that?   NOTHING.  She'd probably have to admit that she should have made the transition a lot sooner.  

    No offense, but I think you might want to go do some research and see what person in Corporate History has ever taken longer than a month or two to leave one high ranking position with one company to go to another high ranking position with another?  That's not normal.  What's normal is taking less than 30 Days to transition.

    Wasn't that HP guy fired?

    Just because it may not have happened before doesn't mean it can't happen now. Contracts can state people need to submit a reasonable notice time. Isn't an Apple employee being sued by BBRY for leaving early?
  • Reply 195 of 270
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,927member
    drblank wrote: »
     They haven't released anything since Oct.  That's now going on 6 months.  I'm just saying that Wall Street's view is that 6 months for no product announcements from Apple makes em nervous.  PERIOD. It's not normal for Apple to wait longer than 3 months between any sort of product announcement.

    Mac Pro, anyone.
  • Reply 196 of 270
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

    Why would i need it?   I have no use for it.

     

    I use it to bring morons’ video files into the 21st century. AVI? MKV? Nonsense!

  • Reply 197 of 270
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    When has there ever been an announcement of someone in upper management taking 6 months to leave one company to move to another?  That's not normally done.  When the former CEO of HP left to Oracle, that happened VERY quickly.  I'm sorry, but I don't do drugs and I would have NO problem tell Angela to her face.  What's she going to do if I told her that?   NOTHING.  She'd probably have to admit that she should have made the transition a lot sooner.  

     

    No offense, but I think you might want to go do some research and see what person in Corporate History has ever taken longer than a month or two to leave one high ranking position with one company to go to another high ranking position with another?  That's not normal.  What's normal is taking less than 30 Days to transition.


     

    So, you're starting with a question.  Interesting.  Do you know what that tells investigators?

  • Reply 198 of 270
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,666member
    It's funny how analysts fabricate what they think should be hot, like "wearables" or an AppleTV" and then get all bent out of shape when their fantasies fail to materialize. I guess that makes sense when you are talking about how other people should be spending their money rather than how you spend your own money. If you look back at the tablet market you'll see at least a solid decade of wild swings and misses and flailing as vendor after vendor tried to ramrod their current product capabilities into what they thought the tablet future should be, like Microsoft's tablet editions. Then there were attempts like the Apple Newton that got the form factor and workflows nearly right but couldn't find the right combination of technology and connectivity to make it worthwhile. So there was no shortage of vendors investing in the product catagory but everything needed to really pull it off still wasn't in place until the emergence of the iPhone, good touch technology, mobile app marketplaces, ans several generations of mobile processing improvements made the iPad not only possible but the archetype for the implementation of a class of product that could only be fantasized about up to that point. Wearables haven't hit the point of mainstream viability yet so punishing Apple for not producing a crude prototype like Google Glass or Galaxy Gear seems silly. Duct taping your iPhone to your wrist does not make it a smart watch.

    While I deeply admire Apple's commitment to quality I also recognize that their biggest risk is not the continuing oneupsmanship against their competition that drives them to redefine the meaning of luxury. The biggest threat to their quality commitment is the shrinking update and refresh cycles of smartphone buyers. The potential lifetime of an iPhone far exceeds the actusl time that many buyers want to spend with a single phone model. With much of the innovation baked into the product it becomes geek-obsolete fairly quickly, especially as carriers roll out better services and reduce the barriers to more frequent refresh cycles. This creates a competition between great and good-enough when the cycles are short and especially when the value of the devices is based on the services that it delivers more so than what it feels like as a prized possession. Like it or not, over time most consumers tend to gravitate to "good enough" and pure consumption rather than specsmanship and tinkering. How many gearheads even bother to open the hood on their modern cars to see what's really under the hood? As long as the car delivers gobs of right foot joy they are probably not going to be fiddling around in the rats nest of tubing and electronics that are hidden under the hood. A tiny few may care, but they are probably still grieving the loss of HeathKit build-it-yourself products as well.

    So the real threat is really around how to keep the landfills from overflowing with 6 month old premuim products. Once that becomes a problem the need for luxury will give way to good enough and disposability.
  • Reply 199 of 270
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post



    1. So much wrong in your comment. What other company has 35% growth rate? Why is only Apple expected to grow that much all the time? iPads are being used in the majority if Fortune 500 companies. There's your enterprise market.

    2. Cook doesn't push people? iOS 7 was released in less than a year. Forstall was fired due to Maps. Next question.

    3. Did he say "Army"? I don't recall that but he did say end of 2013 AND throughout 2014. I can see where you conveniently left that out.

    4. iPod market is shrinking. Only nominal updates are needed.

    5. Omg! No wearables? How will Apple catch up? I forgot they were first in mp3 players, smartphones, tablets, etc. oh wait, that's revisionist history.

    6. There will be no Mac minitower. Apple focuses. You do realize the iMac fits nicely between the mini and pro. Why add more customer confusion like during the Dark Ages?

    7. You think Apple would never has production issues at any other time of year?

    8. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Apple announces products when the products are ready and not to fill some arbitrary gap in a calendar. Deal with it.

    Apple used to have a LOT more than 35% yearly growth rate.  They even had 50% yearly growth rate.  Intel, Microsoft, Cisco, plenty of companies had 35% or higher growth rates until they reached saturation of 70% or higher in the markets they were in.   What market does Apple have a commanding lead?  They had it with the iPad in the beginning, but have lost ground due to other competitors coming in.   They have that with the iPod, but they haven't upgraded the IPod with 24 bit technology which IS the new trend in digital audio for the masses.

    Hardware and new markets isn't happening as quickly as they COULD.  Instead of focusing on several iPhone models in different sizes, they only focused on one new model, whereas their competitors were focusing on various screen sizes, so Apple was caught sleeping at the wheel with different sized iPhones, which is a big market for them.  Face it, Apple lost a lot of business over not introducing multiple sized iPhones and not getting into the ~5 inch model.  Yes, they will capture a lot sales, but they lost a lot during the past 2 years.  I know a lot of iPhone users that bought a larger screen Android phone specifically because of screen size and they told me they would have bought an iPhone if it had the larger screen size, so those types of customers are simply not going to buy a larger screen iPhone until their 2 year contract is up.  There is a sizable amount of lost business.   I am a candidate for a new phone and am waiting for the ~ 5 inch model and there are a lot others just like me.  

     

    Yes, he said "ARMY of new products". I think that quote was said after WWDC.  I can't recall the exact date but he did say that.

    History is past history, in this world of High Tech it's "What have you done lately?" since the shareholders are looking at what are they doing NOW and in the FUTURE.  People don't buy stocks based on what a company did a year ago, 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years, etc.  They buy or sell stock based on what they THINK they are going to do in the FUTURE.  You obviously haven't taken any investment courses.  Maybe you should study Finance and Investments, then you'll have a different appreciation for what the Analysts are doing and how they look at companies.

     

    The iPod market is shrinking because Apple hasn't made any significant product announcements to spurt sales.  24 bit is what's going to do that. Along with increasing storage, functionality in the iPod Touch (802.11ac), etc.

     

    Why do you twist words around?  I never said the word "TOWER", I said a midrange workstation that's in between the Mac Mini and MacPro that's headless.  It could be the same case as a MacPro or a larger case than a MacMini for all I care, it's just got to have the guts of the higher end iMacs, with maybe a little more to satisfy people in the prosumer market that want something in between the MacMini and MacPro, so get off this "TOWER" nonsense.  and please stop twisting words around to suit your agenda.

     

    Well, the rumor mill and the market in general was touting Apple's entrance into wearables and they were expecting something by the end of 2013.  Apple did trademark iWatch in several countries.

     

    You OBVIOUSLY don't get it.  In order for WALL STREET to get excited about Apple, they have to have more product refreshes and get into new markets that they can see some growth.  That's what WALL STREET and SHAREHOLDERS are looking at.  If I was a shareholder, I would probably be a little upset the stock price isn't at $700 a share.  Apple did take a little hit in Net Profit margin.  That did take a little dip. so they aren't making the profit margins they once were, or at least temporarily.

     

    YOU CAN'T READ.  It's painfully obvious to me.  Now, go and take some courses in Investments and Finance to analyze a company.

  • Reply 200 of 270
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,584member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by knowitall View Post



    Did we forget that Apple priced the initial iPhone way to high and slashed the price substantially a few months later (to the dismay of the people who bought it for the original price)?

    Did Steve Balmer refer to the original price of the iPhone?

    The iPad was priced relatively low because a marked had to be created.

    The original iPhone had no carrier subsidy and still sold in impressive volumes to long lines of users.

     

    The $99 Motorola Q that Ballmer was touting as he scoffed a the iPhone's price was carrier subsidized. It was not actually $99 retail.

     

    The price reduction Apple delivered was a volume play to introduce carrier subsidy. The next iPhone was plastic and carrier subsidized, starting at the same price as WinMo models. 

     

    So no, the events you are trying to line up are not true. Ballmer and the rest of the industry just aimed too low and subsequently failed. 

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