Cheaper $400 Xbox One coming sans Kinect as consoles face pressure from low-cost streamers

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,456member
    melgross wrote: »
    Ah, no. The PS4 is doing very well, and the xbox One is doing well, but not as well as the PS4. This has nothing to do with anything the article hopefully stated. It's a pure competitive play against the PS4. Anything else said is pure bunk.

    The WiiU is a failure, as they only sold 2.73 million units all of their fiscal 2013 year, whereas Sony has already sold close to 8 million PS4s, and Microsoft has sold over 5 million XBox Ones.

    I'm not a 'gamer' so a lot of this goes right over my head, but why can't MS have two version of their Xbox thingy ... one with and one without Kinect? What am I missing? Meanwhile kudos to Sony, a company I really hope keeps on going.
  • Reply 62 of 96
    jexusjexus Posts: 373member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    I'm not a 'gamer' so a lot of this goes right over my head, but why can't MS have two version of their Xbox thingy ... one with and one without Kinect? What am I missing?

    One of Microsoft's biggest pushes with the One was the integration of Kinect. It was supposed to be integral to the console, they pushed it so developers would be pressured, or at least have incentive to make games to make use of such capability.

     

    Releasing a Kinectless SKU would have basically damned the Kinect V2 to being nothing more than an expensive accessory that developers would not touch outside of dancing, or other gimmicky games. Now, Kinect will again be scorned as developers will have no incentive once more to make use of it. I assume however that Microsoft has a separate use for Kinect at this point.

  • Reply 63 of 96
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,393member
    Just out of curiosity, are you the same jfanning that wrote in 2008; "Yet I see hundreds of people wearing Nokia earbuds in Ireland (and some using AD2P headphones...) yet have only seen one person with an iPhone here" and "So that explains why apple has fallen on their faces when it comes to iPhone sales outside of the US, the phone has no value to the consumer at the extreme price they have set for it?" ... and I could go on.

    If not I apologize for the insult and will read what you post.

    May I ask what a posting from 2008 has to do

    1. The state of affairs in 2014?
    2. With TS making another false claim?

    Also, can you send me a link to that posting, the history I get only goes back to 2011.

    Thanks
  • Reply 64 of 96
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,495member
    fallenjt wrote: »
    With over 500 millions user accounts, I guess Apple cannot ignore Apple TV potential as a game console anymore.

    But how to tell how many of those CC holders are gamers? Meaning it could be the parents' kids being the gamers, but not authorised to purchase. That number could be way lower. Way, way, way lower than the # of CC holders Apple has on file.

    Thoughts?
  • Reply 65 of 96
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post





    There are three choices for PC gaming.



    Linux - Limited game choice, not a consumer OS

    OS X - Limited game choice, Poor performance for gaming compared to Windows (Compare the requirements for a Steam game in Windows versus OS X)

    Windows - All the games



    You are free to make your own choice

     

    It'll be interesting to see what happens when Steam OS is released. Will developers port their games to it? OS X's range of games has increased significantly since Valve release Steam for OS X.  

  • Reply 66 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,456member
    jfanning wrote: »
    May I ask what a posting from 2008 has to do

    1. The state of affairs in 2014?
    2. With TS making another false claim?

    Also, can you send me a link to that posting, the history I get only goes back to 2011.

    Thanks

    Regarding your posts, it has to do with credibility that's all.

    But TS is TS, I love his posts, they are mostly short and punchy :)

    BTW ... I keep my own personal Hall of Shame going back a long way. I copy and paste the most extreme examples of utterly stupid posts into an archive. One day I will publish a book called "The arrogance of cluelessness" ... :D My criteria is more about the way they are worded than content, it's ok to be wrong but so many are so sure they are right... :no:
  • Reply 67 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,456member
    jexus wrote: »
    One of Microsoft's biggest pushes with the One was the integration of Kinect. It was supposed to be integral to the console, they pushed it so developers would be pressured, or at least have incentive to make games to make use of such capability.

    Releasing a Kinectless SKU would have basically damned the Kinect V2 to being nothing more than an expensive accessory that developers would not touch outside of dancing, or other gimmicky games. Now, Kinect will again be scorned as developers will have no incentive once more to make use of it. I assume however that Microsoft has a separate use for Kinect at this point.

    Thanks for explaining. Of course now I think about it they programming would obviously be totally different and not transferrable. As to a use, perhaps MS can resurrect the Zune with built in Kinect ... they seem to have a penchant for successful concepts like that. :D
  • Reply 68 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,456member
    philboogie wrote: »
    But how to tell how many of those CC holders are gamers? Meaning it could be the parents' kids being the gamers, but not authorised to purchase. That number could be way lower. Way, way, way lower than the # of CC holders Apple has on file.

    Thoughts?

    My guess, like you, is would be very few are gamers. I have no idea of course, but most AppleTV users I know just want to disconnect from the old system and move to on demand and love the ability to switch between any Apple device and continue where you left off, big screen, iPad or iPhone. The next thing for AppleTV needs to be 4K support I'd say.
  • Reply 69 of 96
    nhtnht Posts: 4,496member
    jexus wrote: »
    There is a reason that Japanese companies often outsource localizations or PC ports....that is because most Japanese developers have seldom developed a PC game(PC's were never popular in Japan after the Famicon release). See the awful port that was Dark Souls Prepare to die edition.

    So what of anything you've written refutes the statement that PC gaming is not as problem free as console gaming? The fact that you think game X sucks or Country Y outsources PC ports is simply trying to explain WHY PC gaming is not as smooth as console gaming, not that it isn't more annoying than it should be sometimes.

    Consoles can be annoying too but it's a lot more just turn on and play than PC gaming often is.
  • Reply 70 of 96
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,495member

    BTW ... I keep my own personal Hall of Shame going back a long way. I copy and paste the most extreme examples of utterly stupid posts into an archive. One day I will publish a book called "The arrogance of cluelessness" ... :D My criteria is more about the way they are worded than content, it's ok to be wrong but so many are so sure they are right... :no:

    Could you release that through iBooks please? I'm out of touch with the physical world... :smokey:
    My guess, like you, is would be very few are gamers. I have no idea of course, but most AppleTV users I know just want to disconnect from the old system and move to on demand and love the ability to switch between any Apple device and continue where you left off, big screen, iPad or iPhone. The next thing for AppleTV needs to be 4K support I'd say.

    Funny that. Continuing on a different device is what Bill Gates had imagined some 10 years ago. He had a system installed in his $60M US west coast home, and wanted to release this to the world through Windows. Never came to be.

    As for 4K, I think it's way too early for the masses. There simply is too little content shot in 4K.
  • Reply 71 of 96
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

    2. With TS making another false claim?

     

    Once again, if you were able to disprove me, you would have done it by now.

     

    I cited everything I have posted. You either do the same or refrain from the libel, please.

     

    Also, Watch Dogs hasn't been released yet. 


     

    Having what to do with anything? It comes out in two weeks. The game has been in print for at least two more. It’s done. Finished. Finalized. In the can. They’ve already announced the resolutions at which it’s playable. Standard insane huge resolution with great graphics on computers, garbage on consoles because they’re absolutely terrible at what they’re supposed to be designed to do.

  • Reply 72 of 96
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,393member
    richl wrote: »
    It'll be interesting to see what happens when Steam OS is released. Will developers port their games to it? OS X's range of games has increased significantly since Valve release Steam for OS X.  

    Hopefully they will, it will be the best bet towards getting a PC console
  • Reply 73 of 96
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,393member
    Regarding your posts, it has to do with credibility that's all.

    Again, in what context can you use a posting from 2008? It is six years ago, things have changed
    But TS is TS, I love his posts, they are mostly short and punchy :)

    Ok, this explains a lot.
    BTW ... I keep my own personal Hall of Shame going back a long way. I copy and paste the most extreme examples of utterly stupid posts into an archive. One day I will publish a book called "The arrogance of cluelessness" ... :D My criteria is more about the way they are worded than content, it's ok to be wrong but so many are so sure they are right... :no:

    I imagine TS will feature quite a bit in your book
  • Reply 74 of 96
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,393member
    Once again, if you were able to disprove me, you would have done it by now.

    Um, yes I have, you said
    The fact that they can do 1080p60 when Microsoft and Sony are often limited to 720p30, even for 1st party and AAA games is just a plus.

    I am still waiting on you to list all the PS4 games limited to 720p30 that you claimed there are.

    I cited everything I have posted. You either do the same or refrain from the libel, please.

    You are posting anonymously, there can be no libel
    Having what to do with anything? It comes out in two weeks. The game has been in print for at least two more. It’s done. Finished. Finalized. In the can. They’ve already announced the resolutions at which it’s playable. Standard insane huge resolution with great graphics on computers, garbage on consoles because they’re absolutely terrible at what they’re supposed to be designed to do.

    As already stated, there is a difference between a $500 gaming PC, and a $2000 gaming PC. The $500 won't be playing it at full resolutions. A console is an appliance, it just works, and they work great at what they are designed to do, playing games. Also, they may release a PC to up the resolution/framerate as per other games.
  • Reply 75 of 96
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

    You are posting anonymously, there can be no libel

     

    Sure thing. :no:

     
    As already stated, there is a difference between a $500 gaming PC, and a $2000 gaming PC.

     

    Yes, the $500 one has better graphics output than either the PS4 or the Xbone, and the $2000 one has LUDICROUSLY better graphics output than either the PS4 or the Xbone.

     

    The $500 won't be playing it at full resolutions.


     

    Define “full”. Of course it will. The GTX 760 BLOWS AWAY both consoles at resolutions higher than 1080p. And it’s certainly not the only one.

     

    A console is an appliance, it just works, and they work great at what they are designed to do, playing games.


     

    “Great” is subjective here.

     

    Also, they may release a PC to up the resolution/framerate as per other games.


     

    Oh, yes, that’s just what we need, yet ANOTHER gimped PC version ported from the console version that doesn’t take advantage of the fact that the game is no longer constrained by pathetic hardware requirements. Gee, thanks. :rolleyes:

  • Reply 76 of 96
    p5cho6p5cho6 Posts: 6member

    The reason MSFT now has a sku without kinect is because it lost the perception war with Sony by mismanaging the value proposition with their targeted audience and as a result, neither developer or consumer really cares about kinect.

     

    Now, Kinect could be killing the console market if Microsoft leveraged their advanced cloud technologies by including Bing "cortana" as the primary brain behind kinect instead of dedicating 10% of GPU resources to kinect functions. This 10% is the bottleneck to 1080p or consistent 60fps gameplay. 

  • Reply 77 of 96
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,393member
    Sure thing. :no:

    You do know what anonymous means? If you want me to libel you, post your real name.
    Yes, the $500 one has better graphics output than either the PS4 or the Xbone, and the $2000 one has LUDICROUSLY better graphics output than either the PS4 or the Xbone.

    A PS4 is NZ$600. A $500 PC will have on board graphics, you might be able to up it to full HD, but you will need to turn off all the AA, shading etc. And a $2000 is over 3 times more than a PS4, is should produce better graphics or something is wrong.
    Define “full”. Of course it will. The GTX 760 BLOWS AWAY both consoles at resolutions higher than 1080p. And it’s certainly not the only one.

    A GTX 760 is 66% of the price of a PS4, by the time you purchase the rest of the PC you are up to $2000, but for some reason the fact that a $2000 PC can produce better gaming graphics than a NZ$600 PS4 surprises you?
    “Great” is subjective here.

    Only to you.
    Oh, yes, that’s just what we need, yet ANOTHER gimped PC version ported from the console version that doesn’t take advantage of the fact that the game is no longer constrained by pathetic hardware requirements. Gee, thanks. :rolleyes:

    What are you talking about? how does that have anything to do with a game getting a patch released for it?
  • Reply 78 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,456member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Could you release that through iBooks please? I'm out of touch with the physical world... :smokey:
    Funny that. Continuing on a different device is what Bill Gates had imagined some 10 years ago. He had a system installed in his $60M US west coast home, and wanted to release this to the world through Windows. Never came to be.

    As for 4K, I think it's way too early for the masses. There simply is too little content shot in 4K.

    You'll be amongst the first to get a proof. It will take a long time to prune down KDarling and JFanning et al ... ;)

    Bill probably overheard Steve say that. I don't think Gates ever had an original thought in his life other than 'reverse engineer anything Steve's companies do'.

    I suspect a lot more is being shot in 4K than you may think. Like color was long before many had color TVs. Youtube already supporting 4K tells me this will move quickly along. It is quite a shock when you see it, I think the average Joe will go for it as soon as costs come down and I suspect Netflix will be offering it sooner than later. It's no gimmick like 3D was.
  • Reply 79 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,456member
    jfanning wrote: »
    You do know what anonymous means? If you want me to libel you, post your real name.
    A PS4 is NZ$600. A $500 PC will have on board graphics, you might be able to up it to full HD, but you will need to turn off all the AA, shading etc. And a $2000 is over 3 times more than a PS4, is should produce better graphics or something is wrong.
    A GTX 760 is 66% of the price of a PS4, by the time you purchase the rest of the PC you are up to $2000, but for some reason the fact that a $2000 PC can produce better gaming graphics than a NZ$600 PS4 surprises you?
    Only to you.
    What are you talking about? how does that have anything to do with a game getting a patch released for it?

    You two should get a room ;)
  • Reply 80 of 96
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,230moderator
    Yes, the $500 one has better graphics output than either the PS4 or the Xbone, and the $2000 one has LUDICROUSLY better graphics output than either the PS4 or the Xbone.

    The GTX 760 BLOWS AWAY both consoles at resolutions higher than 1080p. And it’s certainly not the only one.

    Someone tested a sub-$500 PC against the consoles:


    [VIDEO]


    [VIDEO]


    There doesn't seem to be much difference between them all (if they are locked to certain framerates, that's not necessarily their hardware limit) so building a PC would be a decent option if the games you wanted were available. You also have to get and install an OS and a controller and the PS4 is $399.

    Sony's and Microsoft's strategy seems to be working out ok for them sales-wise. Perhaps they could have put in faster hardware but it would cost more and they needed to have target hardware for developers. It looks like the PS4 is based on a 7870:

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171375-reverse-engineered-ps4-apu-reveals-the-consoles-real-cpu-and-gpu-specs

    Naturally every successive GPU generation is going to get some percentage boost over the last one so PCs will continue to jump ahead but hardly anyone buys desktops so the comparison point for a lot of people is laptop graphics.
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