Apple scuttlebutt spurs Samsung to seek sapphire solutions for smartphones

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  • Reply 61 of 124
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

     

    Once again we see that Apple has the balls and intellect to do something new. Once they prove it can be done, the unimaginative cowards at Samsung and the like act like "oh, but phone manufacturers have always used sapphire."  I hope they (the Korean copyists) blow their money on this and find out they don't have the IP to pull it off well.


     

    I find it hilariously disingenuous that Samsung talks about the expense of Sapphire when they dump $20 billion in advertising just smartphones.

  • Reply 62 of 124
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I want Apple's competitors to be better at building good products so there are as good (or even better) than Apple is today which will push the state of the art harder and faster.

    My only concern is having the best possible kit for my specific needs every single day of my life. I care not whose brand is even though that has been Apple for all of the 21st century. If that continues to be Apple then great, if it's someone else, that's fine, too.

    IOW, my loyalty to Apple begins and ends with them serving me the best product just as their loyalty to me begins and ends with my interest in wanting their products. It's only concern.
    Well my loyalty is to the Apple who has consistently worked to provide the best products even when I was convinced the garbage I was buying before was amazing. I joined this and similar sites after my transition to Apple from Microsoft and later from Palm once the iPhone arrived. The level of service I have received has not be even approached by any company I've dealt with. I can tell you how many times I've had them good will a repair that was years out of warranty. Not to mention replace a 4 year old iBook that we bought from eBay and later broke the screen with a brand new model that they were just releasing, when a DHL employee stole it during transit. I'm a tech guy and have bought and sold lots of gear including instruments and cars. My loyalty and those of the like minded people who used to frequent these sites but are mostly quiet or gone, is why there is an Apple today. We continued to support them when no one else cared, because we knew the effort they put in was not a fluke, it was a part of the company from day one, and it's our support of them that allows them to continue to support our needs. I used to wish more people could experience the level of service we do by buying From Apple. Now, I don't think I care and neither do they. They realize that some people don't deserve that level of care because they couldn't appreciate it anyway. I get it now.
  • Reply 63 of 124
    jeffdenverjeffdenver Posts: 108member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Clearly you don't understand what the processor does. 

    LOL

     

    Quote:


    If you actually do that, which Is doubtful, you can then read up on how even a 64-bit version of Android won't have the same benefits because the inherent issues with the Java virtual machine. 


    Yeah, about that. 

     

    https://www.infinum.co/the-capsized-eight/articles/art-vs-dalvik-introducing-the-new-android-runtime-in-kit-kat

     

    Apparently Android does not need the benefits as badly...it already has the extra horsepower to compensate. Thats what those videos show. 

     

    But my real point is that all the supposed benefits of 64-bit processing are not here yet, but that does not stop Apple from using it in their advertising as a spec. 

  • Reply 64 of 124
    jeffdenverjeffdenver Posts: 108member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    Yeah, kind of like that octo-core chip Samsung throws around. And benchmark cheating. Doesn't serve a vital purpose, but boy do the Fandroids lap that shit up.

    Those videos I posted are not benchmarks...they show real world performance. 

  • Reply 65 of 124
    jeffdenverjeffdenver Posts: 108member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    Would you SHUT UP about app loading.


    So angry.  Calm down. 

     

    I'm sorry Android passed up your favorite platform.  I had nothing to do with it though. 

  • Reply 66 of 124
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

    So angry.

     

    Nope.

     

    Calm down.


     

    Shut up.

     

    Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

    Those videos I posted are not benchmarks...they show real world performance. 

     

    You continue not to know what the word ‘performance’ means.

  • Reply 67 of 124
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member

    Apple needs to get better at spreading false rumors that will sting Samsung.    Like they're going to make screens out of a cheese composite.   Or that the next case design will have polka dots.   Or will have a trapezoid shape.    Or that they're changing the default font to Cracked.  Etc.

  • Reply 68 of 124
    pdq2pdq2 Posts: 270member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    ...Sapphire is a common component in watches thanks to its exceptional scratch resistance, but it is ultimately extremely brittle, rendering it susceptible to shattering when dropped.

     

    Mostly this seems to be sourced to Corning, who had a cow when the sapphire thing came out. This company (that's makes products with eitehr shapphire or several kinds of glass, suggests otherwise:

     

    Quote:


    Mechanically second only to diamond. One of the hardest and most scratch resistant materials 

       available. The high modulus of elasticity and high tensile strength make it extremely wear, 

       abrasion and impact resistant. 


     

    In fact, as I understand it, they make the windows on tanks and other military vehicles out of sapphire, at significant cost. Which would be kind of silly if it really was so brittle...

  • Reply 69 of 124
    jpd514jpd514 Posts: 51member
    It's a NO GAME for the patent troll Apple.

    Apple used the sapphire glass for the camera lens cover and fingerprint recognition home button for the first time in the world, but it was China’s Gionee that attempted to use it as front cover glass. Earlier this year Gionee launched a new product using sapphire as cover glass. More recently Shaoni announced its ambitious plan to use sapphire in its new smartphone
  • Reply 70 of 124
    froodfrood Posts: 771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

     

    Apple needs to get better at spreading false rumors that will sting Samsung.    Like they're going to make screens out of a cheese composite.   Or that the next case design will have polka dots.   Or will have a trapezoid shape.    Or that they're changing the default font to Cracked.  Etc.


     

    I heard Apple is working on an innovative 'executive launcher' designed to be set on top of bridges, tall buildings, and mountaintops.  They are working on keeping it super secret so other companies won't race to beat them to market with it.

  • Reply 71 of 124
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    genovelle wrote: »
    Well my loyalty is to the Apple who has consistently worked to provide the best products even when I was convinced the garbage I was buying before was amazing.

    If you thought it was amazing at the time I don't take issue with that, but we do see people here that get upset that Apple isn't the making the exact product they want and then state that Apple should support their needs before the *new* customers. They oft state how they supported Apple during the "dark years" and how Apple should now support them. I think that's ridiculous.

    Your loyalty is clearly based on a history of good experiences — like mine and most (if not all) others — but if they start making products that no only serve your needs compared to another brand will you still be unabashed in your loyalty? I wouldn't.

    jeffdenver wrote: »
    Yeah, about that. 

    https://www.infinum.co/the-capsized-eight/articles/art-vs-dalvik-introducing-the-new-android-runtime-in-kit-kat

    Apparently Android does not need the benefits as badly...it already has the extra horsepower to compensate. Thats what those videos show. 

    But my real point is that all the supposed benefits of 64-bit processing are not here yet, but that does not stop Apple from using it in their advertising as a spec. 

    1) Android and it's apps needs more performance help which is why they have to stuff more cores, a higher clocked processor, and more RAM to accomplish a fraction of what Apple's products can despite using much higher specs for superficial component specs. This is why the Galaxy G5 falls short of previous iPhones in performance despite the greater superficial spec sheet items. As for perceived performance, replacing JIT with ART will help but it's still neither native code nor optimized for the HW or have the HW built specifically for it so it's going to continue to all short of iOS-based products even when using much faster HW (on paper).

    2) You need to learn what horsepower means in terms of a computer. It does not include the OS. The OS and apps an be optimized to make better use of the available horsepower, or they can poorly utilize the HW, as is the case with Android and Java compared to iOS. This is why in a side-by-side comparison test using the same superficial HW specs Android is stillborn.

    3) We haven't even covered power efficiency, a Higley important part of a mobile device. This is where you'd grab some state that compares battery life without mentioning the massive capacity difference between batteries as the key factor in how most Android devices even come within 80% of the iPhone on usability with a 60% smaller battery.
  • Reply 72 of 124
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    pdq2 wrote: »
    In fact, as I understand it, they make the windows on tanks and other military vehicles out of sapphire, at significant cost. Which would be kind of silly if it really was so brittle...

    It all depends on how it's used. Bullet resistance glass is usually a composite which different layers providing different benefits.
  • Reply 73 of 124

    ...windows on tanks and other military vehicles out of sapphire... And they are "Waterproof" is would be the coup Apple needs, diamond glass on all Mac Products and all "WaterProof".. good invention project then sell it to Apple for $4.3 Trillion... my 1st post moving from PC Acer $300 3 years ago I want a MacBook Air i7 8gb 512 ssd $2500 wow and have to get Apple to rewrite iWeb to publish my web... www.electricwindmillcar.com

     

    thanks please comment with your tips moving from a $300 pc Acer aspire 5532 to $2,500 MacBook Pro just wish it came with a built in iPhone5s to help me brainstorm inventions!

  • Reply 74 of 124
    froodfrood Posts: 771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

     

    LOL

     

    Yeah, about that. 

     

    https://www.infinum.co/the-capsized-eight/articles/art-vs-dalvik-introducing-the-new-android-runtime-in-kit-kat

     

    Apparently Android does not need the benefits as badly...it already has the extra horsepower to compensate. Thats what those videos show. 

     

    But my real point is that all the supposed benefits of 64-bit processing are not here yet, but that does not stop Apple from using it in their advertising as a spec. 


     

    It really depends on the end product delivered- and in that aspect I think both Apple and Samsung phones are great.  Apple and Samsung took fairly radically different approaches and arrived at a pretty similar place.  Yes, the S5 has impressive performance as your video demonstrates- more so when you consider the S5 is driving over 2,000,000 pixels to Apple's over 700,000 (try running your favorite graphics intensive FPS on ultra graphics settings vs setting 1/3 that to see what a difference that makes).

     

    I don't think anyone will argue that *all* the benefits for 64-bit processing are here yet, but that does not mean it is a 'gimmick' or that it is only paving the way for the future.  It provides a current benefit.  Much as your argument is that 64-bit isn't doing anything because it is still 'only' as fast as Samsung's 32-bit offering, it is the equivalent of me calling Samsungs octocore strategy or doubling of RAM a gimick because even with 8 cores and twice the memory they are only able to achieve comparable performance to Apple's processor with half the memory and only 2 cores.  Apple designers must rock, no?

     

    Apple and Samsung both build great devices.

  • Reply 75 of 124
    jeffdenverjeffdenver Posts: 108member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    1) Android and it's apps needs more performance help which is why they have to stuff more cores, a higher clocked processor, and more RAM to accomplish a fraction of what Apple's products can despite using much higher specs for superficial component specs. 

    It seems to be working if that video is any indication. And on phones that are much cheaper, despite being stuffed with more cores and more RAM. 

     

    Quote:


    This is why the Galaxy G5 falls short of previous iPhones in performance despite the greater superficial spec sheet items. 


    It is weird to me that Apple people always think that the Galaxy phones = Android. They don't. The Galaxy phones = Touchwiz-polluted Android. 

     

    Apple does beat the Nexus 5 in single core benchmarks...but once the Nexus leverages all it's cores, the iPhone gets left behind. 

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/google-nexus-5-smartphone,3720-7.html

     

    Quote:


    As for perceived performance, replacing JIT with ART will help but it's still neither native code nor optimized for the HW or have the HW built specifically for it so it's going to continue to all short of iOS-based products even when using much faster HW (on paper).


    That makes these benchmarks all the more amazing...this cheap Android phone is still beating the best iPhone despite what you just said. Those benchmarks are not even using the ART runtime...they are using the old Dalvik. 

     

     




    3) We haven't even covered power efficiency, a Higley important part of a mobile device. This is where you'd grab some state that compares battery life without mentioning the massive capacity difference between batteries as the key factor in how most Android devices even come within 80% of the iPhone on usability with a 60% smaller battery.


    Uh huh. 


     


     



  • Reply 76 of 124
    jeffdenverjeffdenver Posts: 108member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frood View Post

     

    I don't think anyone will argue that *all* the benefits for 64-bit processing are here yet, but that does not mean it is a 'gimmick' or that it is only paving the way for the future.  It provides a current benefit.  Much as your argument is that 64-bit isn't doing anything because it is still 'only' as fast as Samsung's 32-bit offering, it is the equivalent of me calling Samsungs octocore strategy or doubling of RAM a gimick because even with 8 cores and twice the memory they are only able to achieve comparable performance to Apple's processor with half the memory and only 2 cores.  Apple designers must rock, no?


    The whole issue was about how Android is all just about specs...what is the point of advertising a 64-bit CPU if the vast majority of apps and/or the UI itself do not even leverage it yet? If Android did that, Apple people would call it a gimmick. 

  • Reply 77 of 124
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

     

    Once again we see that Apple has the balls and intellect to do something new. Once they prove it can be done, the unimaginative cowards at Samsung and the like act like "oh, but phone manufacturers have always used sapphire."  I hope they (the Korean copyists) blow their money on this and find out they don't have the IP to pull it off well.




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



    Start your photocopiers.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    They'll give the excuse they gave a long time ago when they copied Apple in the first place, I think it was something along the lines of a logical progression.  


     

    You guys are quick to judge on this one. Here's the google translate version. I'm not sure whether AI has access to real translators, but it's more likely that they write whatever will draw page views.

     

    Quote:


     

    Sapphire cover glass to accelerate adoption of smart phones ... Related backward industrial growth expectations

    Expensive than glass increases durability

    Quick Links Close Quick Links Naver Naver



    Smartphone vendors are authentic sapphire -glass front cover related material and parts industry in adopting this precious hunpung blowing.



    22 days , according to industry Recently, Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics introduced the sapphire cover glass ingot , wafer makers in relation to submission of samples required. Last year, because of the high price , but reluctant to review the recent global competitors are applying Sapphire Glass announced plans to launch a new product launched a review of the hurry .



    Apple is the world's first camera Sapphire glass lens cover and home button wrote fingerprint glass in the front cover paper sludge is first tried in China . Earlier this year, whether the sludge is applied to the sapphire glass cover came up with new products . Following recent sludge Shah introduced the new smartphone would launch an ambitious said.



    Apple recently built in Arizona sapphire glass manufacturing and processing plants were operating ahead of schedule . New product launch in the second half , and only 10 million shipments Sapphire Glass is known to be applied to the front .



    Sapphire glass is applied to high-purity alumina column to form lumps made ??of sapphire ingot and wafer thin slices then rework it to make the cut . 3 times more than conventional glass hard and not scratched it up to strength. As well as the durability of the touch recognition is high. But the price is 10 times more expensive than conventional glass .



    The sapphire ingot industry official said, " Last year, even if only to lower handset makers are very sought Sapphire Unit " and " But this year using good material subjected to the receipt of a premium price towards the atmosphere will switch and the equipment -related companies are also more active in response to the market trend , "he said.



    4.6 inches sapphire ingot manufacturers in Korea , such as the recent production of large-diameter wafers have to move the weight . Aztec Sapphire Technology · DK · OCI this year , including the ability to enhance the production of large diameter ingots . In particular, in the year 100 ? DK -grade ingot Aztec generating equipment (the Roar ) is introduced to ? in May from 600,000 to 700,000 doubled production capacity expands . 6 inches ingot is 10 times expensive than 2 inches can increase profitability . Apple has 5.5 inches large screen on which you want to apply known sapphire glass .



    The nation's only large-scale high- purity alumina to produce a force known recently focusing on the Chinese market . The company official said, " China Sapphire Ingot manufacturers in order to request a sample from an exploding " and " China , but also domestic alumina producers , such as purity of the product quality is excellent value for money look so much ," he said.



    China Sapphire Ingot manufacturer in the Aurora (Aurora), Crystal Land (Crystal land) and the like, and processing companies in the BIEL wear fur and lens (Lens) , etc. cited .



     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

     

     

     

    AHAHAH let me laugh, troll.

     

    Learn, instead of using old images that are just wrong and simply show how ignorant of other OSes you are :

     

     


    I hate the reused photo comparisons, because they're always constructed by someone with an agenda.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Clearly you don't understand what the processor does. Perhaps you might want to read up on the benefits of the new ISA in ARM64, especially how that specifically benefits apps written in Obj-C.

     

    I need to look that up. It might be useful.

  • Reply 78 of 124
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    frood wrote: »
    I don't think anyone will argue that *all* the benefits for 64-bit processing are here yet, but that does not mean it is a 'gimmick' or that it is only paving the way for the future.

    All has nothing to do with it. The iPhone 5S already delivers increased performance today by using the new ISA. That's a fact. If the iPhone with everything else being equal in HW was still running 32-bit it would perform worse.

    His "proof" that the iPhone is slower with 64-bit is ridiculous on multiple scales. Besides not comparing the same OSes at 32 and 64-bit he's also not even coming close to comparing the same HW. The Galaxy has to use beefier HW to even play in the same pool and therefore has to use a much larger battery to maintain any equivalency to battery life. We're talking a 2.45GHz CPU with 2 GiB RAM with a 2800 mAh battery compared to the iPhone 5S's 1.3Ghz with 1 GiB RAM and a 1450 mAh battery and yet the device from 2013 still trounces the Galaxy phone in comparable processing tests despite it being a newly released device. On top of that you have that first test in that video he thinks "proves" the iPhone sucks showing the Flickr app loading faster on the iPhone. Twice.


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  • Reply 79 of 124
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    jeffdenver wrote: »
    The whole issue was about how Android is all just about specs...what is the point of advertising a 64-bit CPU if the vast majority of apps and/or the UI itself do not even leverage it yet? If Android did that, Apple people would call it a gimmick. 

    The entire OS and all the included apps were 64-bit from days one. Apple also made it very easy to allow developers to update their apps to 64-bit by creating a clear, focused path and creating excellent documentation. Most devs say it took them less than hour to update their apps. Of course, you know all that but you're just justing trolling. Gotta earn that coin for Google.
  • Reply 80 of 124
    jeffdenverjeffdenver Posts: 108member

    The processor gap is a lot less than you'd like to believe. 

     

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