[quote] "Enabling even more applications to take advantage of Motorola's high-performance PowerPC ISA-based host processors, the new Marvell Discovery II devices provide support for our advanced MPX bus protocol," mentioned Bill Dunnigan, Vice President and General Manager of Motorola's Computing Platform Division. "The combination of Motorola's award-winning MPC74XX processors and these new controllers delivers a high performance, high bandwidth solution with compelling price and power dissipation advantages." <hr></blockquote>
This seems to solve the MPX bus incompatibility with DDR. By offering solutions for both the MPX and a DDR 183 MHz memory controller... wow! I am stocked about this one. Great find!
There is no MPX/DDR compatibility problem, as the MPX bus has nothing to do with what memory controller (be it SDR/DDR SDRAM or RDRAM) is used.
The fact that this is networking (lots of non CPU-Memory communication) orientated (4 DMA controllers, 1 onboard gig-e, 3 onboard gig-e MACs, 64-bit PCI), would explain the pairing of MPX/60x with such high speed (366MHz effective ECC) DDR RAM, but here's hoping: does this have multiple MPX/60x buses?
As far as I can tell, controllers from Marvell are not used in any current desktop machines. Can anyone confirm this? The Discovery series and <a href="http://www.marvell.com/Internet/Products/Product_Family/1,2413,1-3,00.html"; target="_blank">other PPC system controllers</a> seem to be exclusively marketed for embedded and high throughput networking applications. Do any of you hardware jocks know what the Discovery II series lacks that would be needed in a desktop machine?
Hmmm, I also just noticed that Marvell is <a href="http://ir.shareholder.com/MRVL/stock2.cfm?period=03"; target="_blank">getting hammered</a> pretty badly on the Nasdaq over the last few months. Is this a sinking ship? (or should I say... stinking chip? <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> )
<strong>There is no MPX/DDR compatibility problem, as the MPX bus has nothing to do with what memory controller (be it SDR/DDR SDRAM or RDRAM) is used.
The fact that this is networking (lots of non CPU-Memory communication) orientated (4 DMA controllers, 1 onboard gig-e, 3 onboard gig-e MACs, 64-bit PCI), would explain the pairing of MPX/60x with such high speed (366MHz effective ECC) DDR RAM, but here's hoping: does this have multiple MPX/60x buses?
Multiple MPX/60x buses connected to one bridge controller are probably nonsense, because MPX bus is not point to point topology (as the athlon bus) but a shared bus (as PIII, or Xeon)
Perhaps a hardware guru can put some light on this.
Moto answer to this problem is RAPIDIO, simmilar to Hypertransport by AMD hammer cpu.
Though I'm no hardware expert by anymeans, but, I can read (Press releases)... to paraphrase Moki
These aren't the boards you are looking for...
Marvell as far as I know is in the business of building hardware for routers and high end telecom equipement. The communications industry also uses Motorola chips hence they are mentioned in the press release. I'm quite confident that these boards have absolutely nothing to do with Apple or "computers". Though I really wish that these boards and specs did have something to do with Apple, I'm afraid that isn't the case.
<strong>As far as I can tell, controllers from Marvell are not used in any current desktop machines. Can anyone confirm this? The Discovery series and <a href="http://www.marvell.com/Internet/Products/Product_Family/1,2413,1-3,00.html"; target="_blank">other PPC system controllers</a> seem to be exclusively marketed for embedded and high throughput networking applications. Do any of you hardware jocks know what the Discovery II series lacks that would be needed in a desktop machine?</strong><hr></blockquote>
By Chris Rijk
Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:24 AM EDT Purchase the PDF
2-way Apple PowerPC systems
Chipset architecture: The basic architecture is similar to Intel's dual processor systems - two CPUs sharing a bus with an ASIC ("GT-64260") that has a memory controller. However, it seems the chipset Apple uses has the southbridge integrated as well, which should save costs, power, size and increase (I/O related) performance a little bit. Up to 1.5GByte/s of SDRAM is supported, though a newer chipset supports up to 2GByte/s of DDR SDRAM.
Cnet are running a story that Jaguar will be ready at the begining of August. This would tie in nicely with a new processor/motherboard configuration, assuming that they are shipping in april.
[quote] "The combination of Motorola's award-winning MPC74XX processors and these new controllers delivers a high performance, high bandwidth solution with compelling price and power dissipation advantages." <hr></blockquote>
If this controller can turn the G4 (MPC74XX) into a "high-bandwidth solution" without cutting out its MPX bus, why in the world wouldn't Apple jump at the chance to use it in a PowerMac?
Chipset architecture: The basic architecture is similar to Intel's dual processor systems - two CPUs sharing a bus with an ASIC ("GT-64260") that has a memory controller. <hr></blockquote>
So, in fact, current dual processor machines do in fact use this Marvell controller (GT-64260 is a Discovery I part number).
The Discovery II series does in fact offer a controller designed for a single processor PPC based system, as well as dual processor systems. I think we will be getting these controllers on new machines announced at Macworld NY.
Given this, what implications does this have for overall system specification??
Personally, I don't know much about the systems, companies, etc. But when that guy above posted this link, I had heard of Marvell before. Didn't Dorsal or someone else here on these boards post that the *NEW* chips will use Marvell.
My point is that I have heard of this company before in relation to a rumor regarding MWNY, and then this comes a couple weeks before. So my gut feeling is that this will be the technology in the new G4's.
<strong>Cnet are running a story that Jaguar will be ready at the begining of August. This would tie in nicely with a new processor/motherboard configuration, assuming that they are shipping in april.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]If this controller can turn the G4 (MPC74XX) into a "high-bandwidth solution" without cutting out its MPX bus, why in the world wouldn't Apple jump at the chance to use it in a PowerMac?<hr></blockquote>
<strong>All in good time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah you see Dorsal has to lay low a little while longer to see what the rumor sites start reporting so he can put his educated "guess" together as to what Apple is doing. We all agree that these guesses are written very very well but like Kormac there seems to be that "...I don't know what Apple did? Maybe there was a last minute change cause the systems were ready..." type thing after the Macworlds. Dorsal has been ready once and that was the 466, 533, 667 & 733 machines. Since then he has been off.
Sorry if I go against the 'praise Dorsal' grain here, I just don't buy it anymore.
Well my mention of Dorsal wasn't in praise. I simply had only heard of that company in relation to a rumor. *MAYBE* it means something, maybe not. But I just found it interesting. I think that the listing of actual processor part numbers that Apple uses in the press releases is pretty simple to understand. Either the tech. is there for Apple to use if it wants too, or the tech HAS been used. Personally I think Apple would be stupid not to take them up. And so what if they typically only make these systems for routers, etc. everything that is needed to boost Apple's line is here. Granted, having 3 Gigabit ethernet switches might be a bit overboard, but I'm sure some program or the future will find use for this.
<strong>Well my mention of Dorsal wasn't in praise. I simply had only heard of that company in relation to a rumor. *MAYBE* it means something, maybe not. But I just found it interesting. I think that the listing of actual processor part numbers that Apple uses in the press releases is pretty simple to understand. Either the tech. is there for Apple to use if it wants too, or the tech HAS been used. Personally I think Apple would be stupid not to take them up. And so what if they typically only make these systems for routers, etc. everything that is needed to boost Apple's line is here. Granted, having 3 Gigabit ethernet switches might be a bit overboard, but I'm sure some program or the future will find use for this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If your referring to Apple having used Marvell's parts before, they have, according to this link.
I don't know if this new controller really means much but it might be a good sign because Marvell is making these chips for both the PowerPC and MIPs processors. It might mean something better (faster) is coming that will be used by this controller.
I'm not a computer hardware expert so take my thoughts on this lightly.
Comments
Where's my Quad CPU, ECC DDR366 Power Mac already!
The current Uni-N (Apple Northbridge) has 1 Gigabit MAC, with a PHY doing timing.
Three Gigabit MACs mean that an Xserve with 2-4 onboard ethernet controllers would be cheaper for Apple to produce.
I'd be happy if someone ported Darwin to one of their reference platforms
Barto
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
[QB]Hey mugwump, ihxo and Bigc, I almost went for the 'Post Reply' button myself... <hr></blockquote>
Ah yeah, he is clearly on top of things
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[quote] "Enabling even more applications to take advantage of Motorola's high-performance PowerPC ISA-based host processors, the new Marvell Discovery II devices provide support for our advanced MPX bus protocol," mentioned Bill Dunnigan, Vice President and General Manager of Motorola's Computing Platform Division. "The combination of Motorola's award-winning MPC74XX processors and these new controllers delivers a high performance, high bandwidth solution with compelling price and power dissipation advantages." <hr></blockquote>
This seems to solve the MPX bus incompatibility with DDR. By offering solutions for both the MPX and a DDR 183 MHz memory controller... wow! I am stocked about this one. Great find!
Barto
The fact that this is networking (lots of non CPU-Memory communication) orientated (4 DMA controllers, 1 onboard gig-e, 3 onboard gig-e MACs, 64-bit PCI), would explain the pairing of MPX/60x with such high speed (366MHz effective ECC) DDR RAM, but here's hoping: does this have multiple MPX/60x buses?
Barto
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
Edit: changed URL
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: wormboy ]</p>
<strong>There is no MPX/DDR compatibility problem, as the MPX bus has nothing to do with what memory controller (be it SDR/DDR SDRAM or RDRAM) is used.
The fact that this is networking (lots of non CPU-Memory communication) orientated (4 DMA controllers, 1 onboard gig-e, 3 onboard gig-e MACs, 64-bit PCI), would explain the pairing of MPX/60x with such high speed (366MHz effective ECC) DDR RAM, but here's hoping: does this have multiple MPX/60x buses?
Barto
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Multiple MPX/60x buses connected to one bridge controller are probably nonsense, because MPX bus is not point to point topology (as the athlon bus) but a shared bus (as PIII, or Xeon)
Perhaps a hardware guru can put some light on this.
Moto answer to this problem is RAPIDIO, simmilar to Hypertransport by AMD hammer cpu.
rooster
These aren't the boards you are looking for...
Marvell as far as I know is in the business of building hardware for routers and high end telecom equipement. The communications industry also uses Motorola chips hence they are mentioned in the press release. I'm quite confident that these boards have absolutely nothing to do with Apple or "computers". Though I really wish that these boards and specs did have something to do with Apple, I'm afraid that isn't the case.
Please someone prove me wrong...
Superd
(Edited for clarity)
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: superd ]</p>
<strong>As far as I can tell, controllers from Marvell are not used in any current desktop machines. Can anyone confirm this? The Discovery series and <a href="http://www.marvell.com/Internet/Products/Product_Family/1,2413,1-3,00.html"; target="_blank">other PPC system controllers</a> seem to be exclusively marketed for embedded and high throughput networking applications. Do any of you hardware jocks know what the Discovery II series lacks that would be needed in a desktop machine?</strong><hr></blockquote>
By Chris Rijk
Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:24 AM EDT Purchase the PDF
2-way Apple PowerPC systems
Chipset architecture: The basic architecture is similar to Intel's dual processor systems - two CPUs sharing a bus with an ASIC ("GT-64260") that has a memory controller. However, it seems the chipset Apple uses has the southbridge integrated as well, which should save costs, power, size and increase (I/O related) performance a little bit. Up to 1.5GByte/s of SDRAM is supported, though a newer chipset supports up to 2GByte/s of DDR SDRAM.
the link:http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000226
rooster
Or maybe it has nothing to do with Apple.
If this controller can turn the G4 (MPC74XX) into a "high-bandwidth solution" without cutting out its MPX bus, why in the world wouldn't Apple jump at the chance to use it in a PowerMac?
[quote] 2-way Apple PowerPC systems
Chipset architecture: The basic architecture is similar to Intel's dual processor systems - two CPUs sharing a bus with an ASIC ("GT-64260") that has a memory controller. <hr></blockquote>
So, in fact, current dual processor machines do in fact use this Marvell controller (GT-64260 is a Discovery I part number).
The Discovery II series does in fact offer a controller designed for a single processor PPC based system, as well as dual processor systems. I think we will be getting these controllers on new machines announced at Macworld NY.
Given this, what implications does this have for overall system specification??
Edit: Discovery... Dimension... whatever.
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: wormboy ]</p>
My point is that I have heard of this company before in relation to a rumor regarding MWNY, and then this comes a couple weeks before. So my gut feeling is that this will be the technology in the new G4's.
<strong>Cnet are running a story that Jaguar will be ready at the begining of August. This would tie in nicely with a new processor/motherboard configuration, assuming that they are shipping in april.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Time travel?
Reckless use of Quantum Processors?
Because they already have the Xserve controller.
<strong>All in good time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah you see Dorsal has to lay low a little while longer to see what the rumor sites start reporting so he can put his educated "guess" together as to what Apple is doing. We all agree that these guesses are written very very well but like Kormac there seems to be that "...I don't know what Apple did? Maybe there was a last minute change cause the systems were ready..." type thing after the Macworlds. Dorsal has been ready once and that was the 466, 533, 667 & 733 machines. Since then he has been off.
Sorry if I go against the 'praise Dorsal' grain here, I just don't buy it anymore.
<strong>Well my mention of Dorsal wasn't in praise. I simply had only heard of that company in relation to a rumor. *MAYBE* it means something, maybe not. But I just found it interesting. I think that the listing of actual processor part numbers that Apple uses in the press releases is pretty simple to understand. Either the tech. is there for Apple to use if it wants too, or the tech HAS been used. Personally I think Apple would be stupid not to take them up. And so what if they typically only make these systems for routers, etc. everything that is needed to boost Apple's line is here. Granted, having 3 Gigabit ethernet switches might be a bit overboard, but I'm sure some program or the future will find use for this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If your referring to Apple having used Marvell's parts before, they have, according to this link.
<a href="http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000231"; target="_blank">http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000231</a>;
GT-64260 is a Marvell part #.
You can read about it on this page:
<a href="http://www.marvell.com/Internet/Products/products/1,2414,1-4-18-12,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.marvell.com/Internet/Products/products/1,2414,1-4-18-12,00.html</a>;
I don't know if this new controller really means much but it might be a good sign because Marvell is making these chips for both the PowerPC and MIPs processors. It might mean something better (faster) is coming that will be used by this controller.
I'm not a computer hardware expert so take my thoughts on this lightly.