So, anyone feel like actually getting back on topic? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
So yeah, how about those powermacs?
What are we going to get. It seems in vogue for the rumor sites to predict small updates now. I guess we've only got a little over a week left to find out!
I have a "friend" who works for a 'certain" company with a "close" connection to ....
Awe, nevermind. i heard (not from a BBS, or web site) that there is a new apple handheld device coming. Not really a PDA though. "She" hinted at the name being like newton, like a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, or a collegue / contemporary.
Anyway, what does everyone think of an Apple iTools based online calendar system accesable anywhere, you allow family, friends, collegues to access it ?
You are ignorant. I can agree that a P4 system is not slow. But you do a lame job of proving it is faster. You have little or no knowledge of the inner workings of a computer. Just a superficial understanding of hardware specs.
And the fact that you say the iMac uses standard hardware from vendors and that they break down just as much seems somewhat uneducated. I have worked as a Computer Tech before, and the ratio to ratio of repairs of PCs and Macs. The Mac beats the PC by quite a bit, and the repairs on the mac are usually much more minor than what a PC requires.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothign against you advocating the P4 or 'dissing' Apple. Just make sure you know what the hell you are talking about.
The car analogy doesn't work anymore. It did back when all the parts in a mac were proprietary and high quality, but not anymore. The only difference between a mac and a pc is the OS.
Macs use and have been using for a while industry standard parts. There's just as many modern macs that break down as retail pcs. It just seems like more pcs break because there's a lot more of them out there.
The car analogy works and will continue to work as long as there are car makers with the same relative market share as Apple. That's the reason for the analogy along with Bose. Niche markets that make quality products with a low market share. The parts may be similar but the final product is still a better quality.
i heard (not from a BBS, or web site) that there is a new apple handheld device coming. Not really a PDA though. "She" hinted at the name being like newton, like a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, or a collegue / contemporary.<hr></blockquote>
Newton lived from 1643-1727. That rules out Shakespeare and Darwin. Descartes? Boyle? Hooke? Johnson? Bach?
[quote]Anyway, what does everyone think of an Apple iTools based online calendar system accesable anywhere, you allow family, friends, collegues to access it ?<hr></blockquote>
Not much, unless it is accompanied by a lot of other things....
<strong>Why is everyone focusing on video? How many people here regularly use their macs as video workstations? Sure everyone might occassionally import some photos and manipulate them a bit, but how often would the mac user download their raw video data from a camera and then turn it into a great movie? Maybe once a year? Maybe only once in the whole mac's life.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How often does the average user do anything that requires super speed? It's likely one of the major reasons that both PC and Mac sales are slumping is that for many users there is no compelling need to buy a new computer. They can do what they need to do with the computing power they've already got.
I personally want a more powerful Mac for an astronomy applet/application that I've created ( <a href="http://www.skyviewcafe.com"; target="_blank">http://www.skyviewcafe.com</A>; . It's very processor intensive if you want quick, smooth animation when you adjust the application's clock. My old 1.1 GHz AMD system clearly outshines the performance I get on my 800 MHz TiBook, and even the performance I see on dual 1 GHz Power Macs. I'd really like to see Sky View Café program shine on a Mac, but its being held back both by the speed of current Macs and problems in Apple's implementation of Java.
I'd also like a Mac that's so fast that no matter how relatively slow Virtual PC is, raw processing power makes the end result acceptable. Hell, if Virtual PC runs fast enough to feel like a 250-300 MHz PC I'd be happy. I'd probably sell my old PC at that point.
But that's just me. Since you seem very disappointed in Mac performance, might I ask what you do where you find yourself cursing at the Mac's speed? If it's OS X, in a month or two Jaguar is poised to improve OS X performance greatly without the need for new hardware.
I guess I share your displeasure with the raw speed of current Macs, but I'm not so incensed about it. I'll just wait until either they do come out with something substantially more powerful before I buy another system (MWNY '02!?), or regretfully switch to PCs full time if and when the day comes that the real-world performance gap gets to be too much.
I'm also hoping that Mac performance gets big enough a boost to attract new buyers and get a few percent more to switch to Mac. All Mac users will be in a happier place if and when Macs get up to a 10-15% marketshare. That's Apple's most compelling reason to boost performance. Cute ads, friendly iApps and a great OS alone will only go so far. I'm sure Steve et al are well aware of this. The question remains if they are willing and able to do something about it soon enough.
[quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:
<strong>
Just curious? do you use a <a href="http://www.gateway.com/"; target="_blank">Gateway</a>?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No I do not. I own a powerbook 100, a powerpc 5200CD, a G3 Blue and white, a P4 system built myself and a Dell p3 system.
I once was an apple zealot, look for my posts on macaddict. But after getting shit dumped onto my plate year after year after year by Apple I could no longer support Apple.
We all know that Apple is not performing at its best. We can all see that their hardware is lacking (their software, BTW, is great). A company will not improve if people keep buying their crap. Why should they? R&D costs money. If they can just up the processor speed a bit a couple times a year without reinovating they will do it.
I think the best thing for Apple would be a complete drop off of sales in their pro lines. (Again, BTW, I think their portable lines are top notch. I would have no qualms picking up an ibook or PBG4 over a wintel notebook anyday). Apple must realize that we, the consumers want machines that can compete with what's out there.
There's a lot of outdated ideas out here. Sure Apple targets education but are you completely unaware of the massive education cutbacks happening across the United States as well as Canada? Many schools can no longer afford complete labs of macs. They'll purchase a lab of pcs and then a couple emacs for their TV&Film departments.
But you say, the schools could use money from other budgets to purchase these higher quality machines from Apple. And yes, they're doing that. Have you popped in to look at most schools' libraries? They're almost empty or filled with outdated litterature. The majority of high school budgets have been gutted for new computers leaving no money to purchase desperately needed books. I think the schools would be better off purchasing cheap wintels and using the extra money in other needed areas.
[quote]Originally posted by MacGP
cowofwar,
You are ignorant. I can agree that a P4 system is not slow. But you do a lame job of proving it is faster. You have little or no knowledge of the inner workings of a computer. Just a superficial understanding of hardware specs.
And the fact that you say the iMac uses standard hardware from vendors and that they break down just as much seems somewhat uneducated. I have worked as a Computer Tech before, and the ratio to ratio of repairs of PCs and Macs. The Mac beats the PC by quite a bit, and the repairs on the mac are usually much more minor than what a PC requires.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothign against you advocating the P4 or 'dissing' Apple. Just make sure you know what the hell you are talking about.
<hr></blockquote>
Do you need an engineering degree to tell if one computer is faster than another?
What breaks in a pc? Only the same things as in macs. At your comp tech store divide the number of pcs you repaired by 19. Now the ratio should be more fair.
I regularly use macs at my local macstation. These are dual 1ghz g4s. Everyday stuff, navigating the OS, surfing the net, checking email, photoshop, fireworks, games, it's all faster on my pc.
Now maybe I am ignorant of all the little areas that make a mac great. Like that one filter in photoshop that's faster on macs, or the ease of use of the operating system. But I'm sorry to say, that I just get more done on a pc than a mac.
Maybe I'm a pc zealot. Maybe you're mac zealots. Maybe we're blind to eachothers' arguments. But until Apple can upgrade their pro line to a level where the pc using system administrators (they're normally the ones making the choice between macs and pcs) are wowed by the performance and price then they will continue to be a niche market that is slowly shrinking.
I want to see Apple succeed. I want to see their market share grow, Apple wants to see itself grow, but in this capatalistic society where price/performance ratio is all that matters Apple wont grow with its current mindset.
Oh, and about that "Apple will provide a better return on your money in the longrun" idea it is true. And I can back that up since all of my macs still work to do this day, but how many people are thinking that when purchasing a computer? If I tried to sell the average person something that was twice the price, but I explained that it was also twice the quality and would last twice as long, most people would buy the cheaper one.
So maybe Apple can't become a lead marketshare holder because to get big it has to drop quality, and to drop quality it would become what everyone here hates so much. Just another Gateway or Dell.
Sorry if my posts are coming off as "dissing" Apple, but I'm just trying to explain my frustration with Apple's inability or lack of want to keep their hardware current. I don't mind paying a premium for Apple's products, just so long as they're competitive.
cowofwar, Im with you on this. Dont get me wrong I love MacOSX and Ive used macs since 1990 and I have never owned a PC. But July 17 will be the fork of the apple road for me. Thats when I will choose between PC and Mac. Im mainly using Lightwave 3D wich works on both PC and Mac on the same dongle. So I will have no problem switching to PC. Apple sure have to deliver to make me stay. This is your last call Apple!!!
Guys? This is Future Hardware. This thread is about what/whether there will be new hardware introduced at MW Expo NY that will make this year "Apple's Year." Capiche? Good.
<strong>Is it just me or has this thread run it's useful life out. Can an admin lock this sucker and we can start a new one? (ignore me, I'm with stupid)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I agree. Dorsal has fed his ego enough with how many posts this thread has.
Well all answers will be answered in eleven short days. I just hope that whatever they announce they have ample supply of so it doesn't turn into another imac LCD.
cowofwar, if you hate Apple so much why don't you leave us alone and go hang out at the Gateway or Dell message boards instead? Because you're a troll and you have nothing better to do? Don't try to deny it. We can all see you for what you really are. You have made it as clear as possible. Now sod off.
Comments
So yeah, how about those powermacs?
What are we going to get. It seems in vogue for the rumor sites to predict small updates now. I guess we've only got a little over a week left to find out!
Apple sucks.
<hr></blockquote>
Just curious? do you use a <a href="http://www.gateway.com/"; target="_blank">Gateway</a>?
I have a "friend" who works for a 'certain" company with a "close" connection to ....
Awe, nevermind. i heard (not from a BBS, or web site) that there is a new apple handheld device coming. Not really a PDA though. "She" hinted at the name being like newton, like a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, or a collegue / contemporary.
Anyway, what does everyone think of an Apple iTools based online calendar system accesable anywhere, you allow family, friends, collegues to access it ?
<img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
-----------
I just want a man who is cute, smart, funny, sensitive, tough, adventurous, creative, and has a Mac. Is that so much to ask?
You are ignorant. I can agree that a P4 system is not slow. But you do a lame job of proving it is faster. You have little or no knowledge of the inner workings of a computer. Just a superficial understanding of hardware specs.
And the fact that you say the iMac uses standard hardware from vendors and that they break down just as much seems somewhat uneducated. I have worked as a Computer Tech before, and the ratio to ratio of repairs of PCs and Macs. The Mac beats the PC by quite a bit, and the repairs on the mac are usually much more minor than what a PC requires.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothign against you advocating the P4 or 'dissing' Apple. Just make sure you know what the hell you are talking about.
<strong>
The car analogy doesn't work anymore. It did back when all the parts in a mac were proprietary and high quality, but not anymore. The only difference between a mac and a pc is the OS.
Macs use and have been using for a while industry standard parts. There's just as many modern macs that break down as retail pcs. It just seems like more pcs break because there's a lot more of them out there.
[ 07-06-2002: Message edited by: cowofwar ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The car analogy works and will continue to work as long as there are car makers with the same relative market share as Apple. That's the reason for the analogy along with Bose. Niche markets that make quality products with a low market share. The parts may be similar but the final product is still a better quality.
i heard (not from a BBS, or web site) that there is a new apple handheld device coming. Not really a PDA though. "She" hinted at the name being like newton, like a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, or a collegue / contemporary.<hr></blockquote>
Newton lived from 1643-1727. That rules out Shakespeare and Darwin. Descartes? Boyle? Hooke? Johnson? Bach?
[quote]Anyway, what does everyone think of an Apple iTools based online calendar system accesable anywhere, you allow family, friends, collegues to access it ?<hr></blockquote>
Not much, unless it is accompanied by a lot of other things....
Hope springs eternal.
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
<strong>Why is everyone focusing on video? How many people here regularly use their macs as video workstations? Sure everyone might occassionally import some photos and manipulate them a bit, but how often would the mac user download their raw video data from a camera and then turn it into a great movie? Maybe once a year? Maybe only once in the whole mac's life.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How often does the average user do anything that requires super speed? It's likely one of the major reasons that both PC and Mac sales are slumping is that for many users there is no compelling need to buy a new computer. They can do what they need to do with the computing power they've already got.
I personally want a more powerful Mac for an astronomy applet/application that I've created ( <a href="http://www.skyviewcafe.com"; target="_blank">http://www.skyviewcafe.com</A>; . It's very processor intensive if you want quick, smooth animation when you adjust the application's clock. My old 1.1 GHz AMD system clearly outshines the performance I get on my 800 MHz TiBook, and even the performance I see on dual 1 GHz Power Macs. I'd really like to see Sky View Café program shine on a Mac, but its being held back both by the speed of current Macs and problems in Apple's implementation of Java.
I'd also like a Mac that's so fast that no matter how relatively slow Virtual PC is, raw processing power makes the end result acceptable. Hell, if Virtual PC runs fast enough to feel like a 250-300 MHz PC I'd be happy. I'd probably sell my old PC at that point.
But that's just me. Since you seem very disappointed in Mac performance, might I ask what you do where you find yourself cursing at the Mac's speed? If it's OS X, in a month or two Jaguar is poised to improve OS X performance greatly without the need for new hardware.
I guess I share your displeasure with the raw speed of current Macs, but I'm not so incensed about it. I'll just wait until either they do come out with something substantially more powerful before I buy another system (MWNY '02!?), or regretfully switch to PCs full time if and when the day comes that the real-world performance gap gets to be too much.
I'm also hoping that Mac performance gets big enough a boost to attract new buyers and get a few percent more to switch to Mac. All Mac users will be in a happier place if and when Macs get up to a 10-15% marketshare. That's Apple's most compelling reason to boost performance. Cute ads, friendly iApps and a great OS alone will only go so far. I'm sure Steve et al are well aware of this. The question remains if they are willing and able to do something about it soon enough.
<strong>
Just curious? do you use a <a href="http://www.gateway.com/"; target="_blank">Gateway</a>?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No I do not. I own a powerbook 100, a powerpc 5200CD, a G3 Blue and white, a P4 system built myself and a Dell p3 system.
I once was an apple zealot, look for my posts on macaddict. But after getting shit dumped onto my plate year after year after year by Apple I could no longer support Apple.
We all know that Apple is not performing at its best. We can all see that their hardware is lacking (their software, BTW, is great). A company will not improve if people keep buying their crap. Why should they? R&D costs money. If they can just up the processor speed a bit a couple times a year without reinovating they will do it.
I think the best thing for Apple would be a complete drop off of sales in their pro lines. (Again, BTW, I think their portable lines are top notch. I would have no qualms picking up an ibook or PBG4 over a wintel notebook anyday). Apple must realize that we, the consumers want machines that can compete with what's out there.
There's a lot of outdated ideas out here. Sure Apple targets education but are you completely unaware of the massive education cutbacks happening across the United States as well as Canada? Many schools can no longer afford complete labs of macs. They'll purchase a lab of pcs and then a couple emacs for their TV&Film departments.
But you say, the schools could use money from other budgets to purchase these higher quality machines from Apple. And yes, they're doing that. Have you popped in to look at most schools' libraries? They're almost empty or filled with outdated litterature. The majority of high school budgets have been gutted for new computers leaving no money to purchase desperately needed books. I think the schools would be better off purchasing cheap wintels and using the extra money in other needed areas.
[quote]Originally posted by MacGP
cowofwar,
You are ignorant. I can agree that a P4 system is not slow. But you do a lame job of proving it is faster. You have little or no knowledge of the inner workings of a computer. Just a superficial understanding of hardware specs.
And the fact that you say the iMac uses standard hardware from vendors and that they break down just as much seems somewhat uneducated. I have worked as a Computer Tech before, and the ratio to ratio of repairs of PCs and Macs. The Mac beats the PC by quite a bit, and the repairs on the mac are usually much more minor than what a PC requires.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothign against you advocating the P4 or 'dissing' Apple. Just make sure you know what the hell you are talking about.
<hr></blockquote>
Do you need an engineering degree to tell if one computer is faster than another?
What breaks in a pc? Only the same things as in macs. At your comp tech store divide the number of pcs you repaired by 19. Now the ratio should be more fair.
I regularly use macs at my local macstation. These are dual 1ghz g4s. Everyday stuff, navigating the OS, surfing the net, checking email, photoshop, fireworks, games, it's all faster on my pc.
Now maybe I am ignorant of all the little areas that make a mac great. Like that one filter in photoshop that's faster on macs, or the ease of use of the operating system. But I'm sorry to say, that I just get more done on a pc than a mac.
Maybe I'm a pc zealot. Maybe you're mac zealots. Maybe we're blind to eachothers' arguments. But until Apple can upgrade their pro line to a level where the pc using system administrators (they're normally the ones making the choice between macs and pcs) are wowed by the performance and price then they will continue to be a niche market that is slowly shrinking.
I want to see Apple succeed. I want to see their market share grow, Apple wants to see itself grow, but in this capatalistic society where price/performance ratio is all that matters Apple wont grow with its current mindset.
Oh, and about that "Apple will provide a better return on your money in the longrun" idea it is true. And I can back that up since all of my macs still work to do this day, but how many people are thinking that when purchasing a computer? If I tried to sell the average person something that was twice the price, but I explained that it was also twice the quality and would last twice as long, most people would buy the cheaper one.
So maybe Apple can't become a lead marketshare holder because to get big it has to drop quality, and to drop quality it would become what everyone here hates so much. Just another Gateway or Dell.
Sorry if my posts are coming off as "dissing" Apple, but I'm just trying to explain my frustration with Apple's inability or lack of want to keep their hardware current. I don't mind paying a premium for Apple's products, just so long as they're competitive.
[ 07-06-2002: Message edited by: cowofwar ]</p>
<strong>
I just bought the p4 system last month. It cost less than the low end imac.
Cheaper my ass
</strong><hr></blockquote>
[code]Summary - iMac LCD 700
? 128MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? Mac OS X - U.S. English
? 40GB Ultra ATA drive
? CD-RW drive
? NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/32MB DDR graphics
? Mac OS X & Mac OS 9 installed
? Apple Keyboard
? Apple Pro Mouse
Subtotal $2,249.00
</pre><hr></blockquote>
[code]
Summary - My P4 System
INTEL PENTIUM 4 1.6GHZ A P4 512K 400FSB S478 NORTHWOOD RETAIL BOX
ABIT IT7 S478 845E ATX 3DDR AGP 4PCI ATA133 RAID USB2.0 SOUND LAN
SAMSUNG 256MB PC2700 DDR333 184PIN
MAXTOR D740X-6L 80GB EIDE 7200RPM ATA133 W/ FDB QUIET VERSION
1.44 MB High Density Floppy Drive
SAMSUNG NATURAL FLAT 900NF 19IN 0.25MM AG TCO99
ABIT SILURO NVIDIA GEFORCE4 TI4400 128MB AGP VGA/DVI W/ TV OUT
LIAN-LI ALUMINUM PC65U 18IN CASE USB 4X5.25 3X3.5 5X3.5INT TRANSPARENT SIDE
CREATIVE SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY SB0092W/1394 SC
LITEON 16X DVD-ROM INT E-IDE OEM W/ SW DVD PLAYER
SURECOM PCI 10/100M NIC
ENERMAX EG365P-VE 350W W/ 2 FAN
Subtotal $2,124.13
</pre><hr></blockquote>
? 128MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? Mac OS X - U.S. English
? 40GB Ultra ATA drive
? CD-RW drive
? NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/32MB DDR graphics
? Mac OS X & Mac OS 9 installed
? Apple Keyboard
? Apple Pro Mouse
Subtotal $2,249.00
</pre><hr></blockquote>
[code]
Summary - My P4 System
INTEL PENTIUM 4 1.6GHZ A P4 512K 400FSB S478 NORTHWOOD RETAIL BOX
ABIT IT7 S478 845E ATX 3DDR AGP 4PCI ATA133 RAID USB2.0 SOUND LAN
SAMSUNG 256MB PC2700 DDR333 184PIN
MAXTOR D740X-6L 80GB EIDE 7200RPM ATA133 W/ FDB QUIET VERSION
1.44 MB High Density Floppy Drive
SAMSUNG NATURAL FLAT 900NF 19IN 0.25MM AG TCO99
ABIT SILURO NVIDIA GEFORCE4 TI4400 128MB AGP VGA/DVI W/ TV OUT
LIAN-LI ALUMINUM PC65U 18IN CASE USB 4X5.25 3X3.5 5X3.5INT TRANSPARENT SIDE
CREATIVE SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY SB0092W/1394 SC
LITEON 16X DVD-ROM INT E-IDE OEM W/ SW DVD PLAYER
SURECOM PCI 10/100M NIC
ENERMAX EG365P-VE 350W W/ 2 FAN
Subtotal $2,124.13
</pre><hr></blockquote>
Not add to the mix, but isn't a CD-R drive slightly more expensive then a DVD drive? I know not $400 worth, but a little more none the less.
Not to mention- I assume the 19" flat is a CRT? Wouldn't a 15" LCD be slightly more expensive then a CRT?
[ 07-06-2002: Message edited by: KidRed ]</p>
Car analogies... rants about current hardware... the inevitable listing of (carefully written) spec sheets from Dell.
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Guys? This is Future Hardware. This thread is about what/whether there will be new hardware introduced at MW Expo NY that will make this year "Apple's Year." Capiche? Good.
PS: Rants belong in General Discussion.
<strong>Is it just me or has this thread run it's useful life out. Can an admin lock this sucker and we can start a new one? (ignore me, I'm with stupid)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I agree. Dorsal has fed his ego enough with how many posts this thread has.
Two weeks to go and Dorsal's a no show.
Close the thread.
Lemon Bon Bon
Maybe earlier if Time Magazine gets a preview
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />