Overall tablet sales shrink for the first time as Apple continues to dominate mobile computer market

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 35
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Here's another POSSIBILITY on why these Android numbers might be over inflated.

    Let's take this example. When Samsung releases their numbers, are they separating out between the Samsung LABELED products vs. PRIVATE labeled? Because they and others sell products with their own label on it as well as making for private labels. So, let's say Samsung sold 100 million tablets, but 25 Million of them were private labeled GOOGLE. Then Google releases that they sold 25 Million Google tablets, so then the perception is that Android tablets just between these two companies is 125 Million units, rather than just 100 Million units because Google tablets were actually counted twice since Google reports what they sold under their name, but they are really Samsung tablets that Samsung reported, only Samsung didn't say how many were OEM and non-OEM.

    There are a LOT of companies that make for private labels that may be getting counted twice. Once from the actual mfg and a second time through the private label. maybe that's what's REALLY going on and maybe some of these market research companies can't tell the difference due to the OEM mfg not separating out what's OEM and what isn't.

    I could DEFINITELY believe that SOME of Android based sales figures are largely double reported due to this type of behavior.

    There are lot of these no name products that I don't know who the heck makes them. What happens if there are companies that aren't publicly traded that make 100 million tablets but are only for the OEM market and they are getting double reported because they don't say who their OEM customers are? There's a possibility that there is a LOT more double reporting than we think.

    Who are the actual mfg of products, if they aren't making them,then don't count them, only count the REAL mfg of the products. Obviously, Apple doesn't private label Apple products (they are just mfg by several outsource companies), but LG, ACER, SAMSUNG, ASUS and potentially others mfg products under their name and they private label to others we may not who are getting sold under.
  • Reply 22 of 35
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

     

    @drblank:

     

    I'm with danv2. I've watched for years as NPD makes uselessly comical predictions quarter after quarter. 

     

    As I clearly qualified in my original post, I said "But that's just me…"

     

    But hey, if you want to include their schlock into your analysis, go right ahead


    Did I say that I use their numbers?  NO. So why did you insinuate that I did?  I just asked who you guys are using and how can you tell if they are any better.

     

    I'm mostly interested in what Apple sells and I'm looking at how Apple is performing against themselves and MAYBE what Samsung or other REAL competitors to them.  In the tablet and smartphone market, it's really just a two horse race between Apple and Samsung, maybe ASUS, ACER, HTC might have certain degrees of competition, but again, I only look at what Apple really reports and I get that from BareFigures since that's where they get their numbers.  The rest of the market research companies are hit and miss.

     

    Now, when reporting the usage, that only dictates what's getting used and has nothing to do with sales, but it can give a little guidance I guess on how many of these units sold are actually being used, because I know that a lot of people might buy these POS cheap tablets and not even use the darn things, as they are buying them just to feel like they have something when its just not a useful product.  I have a friend that just bought one POS V-Tech tablet for his kid and it's more of a toy than any serious tablet, but are these "TOY tablets" that get sold part of the OTHER category?  There are plenty of these really cheap toy tablets that get sold.  Are they part of the "OTHER" category?  I don't even know what OS it's using because it doesn't look like an Android OS either.

  • Reply 23 of 35
    mj webmj web Posts: 918member
    Recently bought first tablet, iPad Air 128 GB. It shines at presentations but aside from that sits collecting dust. Prefer surfing web on Macbook Air and creating content on iMac. Will I get another tablet anytime soon? NO!
  • Reply 24 of 35
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post

     

    Just for grins, when it comes to Android numbers, since there are a TON of developers for both Apple and Android phones.  The Apple developers only buy "MAYBE" one of each basic Apple model, but the Android developers may have to buy one of everything that comes out to test their product, even though they are just for testing purposes so a developer that develops for both platforms may only buy a couple of iPhones each year, but they end up buying 100 or more Androd models because they have buy one of each product from each mfg.  So, maybe that's partially the reason why Android has so much market share.  A lot of them are just for developers to test their products and they usually end up not actually used by an end user.  So keep that in mind.


     

    You're overestimating the bulk of developers when it comes to test procedures. With the bugs I've seen in the B and C titles on iOS and Android, it's pretty clear that much of their testing is farmed out to their users, and they're releasing "betas" as final releases. This is unfortunately common in a lot of software outside of the mobile arena as well.

     

    The iOS advantage in this case is the limited number of discrete configurations. It's entirely possible that a given developer would have access to the top 5 currently most popular iPads and Android tablets. For iOS devices, that would represent an enormous percentage of the user base, but this is not true for Android.

  • Reply 25 of 35
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    mj web wrote: »
    Recently bought first tablet, iPad Air 128 GB. It shines at presentations but aside from that sits collecting dust. Prefer surfing web on Macbook Air and creating content on iMac. Will I get another tablet anytime soon? NO!

    Why did you buy the most expensive model if you didn't have a good reason to own it. I only use my iPad for one purpose, music creation, though it's used everyday for hours at a time and it's an important device for me. If your going to keep it you should really find at least one major thing to use it for otherwise it's just a complete waste. If not I would defiantly sell it before the new model comes out so you can at least recuperate most of what you paid for it.

    Unfortunately I also know a few people who have bought very exspensive tablets only to have them sit around. I recently had a friend who bought an iPad Air with the Logitch keyboard case, she wanted it to replace her old black Macbook. Unfortunately she didn't do any research and found the experience frustrating as a laptop replacment, so it was put in the drawer and forgotten. I convinced her to sell it and use the money towards a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, it's exactly what she was looking for and now couldn't be happier. I'm not saying the Lenovo is better or anything, for example with music creation I would personally still want the iPad but for office and programming then I would defiantly go with something like the ThinkPad. The point is you just need to know what your expectations and needs are and then buy accordingly. That's why I never go to the grocery store hungry and without a list, so I don't come out with stuff that I don't need or is potentially bad for me, though a chocolate bar always seems to find it's way into my bag.
  • Reply 26 of 35
    mj webmj web Posts: 918member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    Why did you buy the most expensive model if you didn't have a good reason to own it. I only use my iPad for one purpose, music creation, though it's used everyday for hours at a time and it's an important device for me. If your going to keep it you should really find at least one major thing to use it for otherwise it's just a complete waste. If not I would defiantly sell it before the new model comes out so you can at least recuperate most of what you paid for it.



    Unfortunately I also know a few people who have bought very exspensive tablets only to have them sit around. I recently had a friend who bought an iPad Air with the Logitch keyboard case, she wanted it to replace her Macbook. Unfortunately she didn't do any research and found the experience frustrating as a laptop replacment, so it was put in the drawer and forgotten. I convinced her to sell it and use the money towards a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, it's exactly what she was looking for and now couldn't be happier. I'm not saying the Lenovo is better or anything, for example with music creation I would personally still want the iPad but for Office and Programming then defiantly the Lenovo. The point is you just need to know what your expectations and needs are and then buy accordingly. That's why I never go to the grocery store hungry and without a list, so I don't come out with stuff that I don't need or is potentially bad for me.

    IPad excels at presentation which is helpful to me as an artist. It's useful having all my images and media instantly accessible in a portable format. I use 70% capacity. As you know the more capacity, the cheaper RAM cost. Problem for me is I prefer OS X over IOS, I'm acclimated to compute that way. I'm more comfortable with keyboard and trackpad over touch. I like typing on the iPad, it works beautifully, but is will never replace my MB Air. Users who came of age in the mobile era acclimate more easily to touch. 

  • Reply 27 of 35
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    You're overestimating the bulk of developers when it comes to test procedures. With the bugs I've seen in the B and C titles on iOS and Android, it's pretty clear that much of their testing is farmed out to their users, and they're releasing "betas" as final releases. This is unfortunately common in a lot of software outside of the mobile arena as well.

     

    The iOS advantage in this case is the limited number of discrete configurations. It's entirely possible that a given developer would have access to the top 5 currently most popular iPads and Android tablets. For iOS devices, that would represent an enormous percentage of the user base, but this is not true for Android.


    Maybe so, but I'm sure it's part of it.  I run into these small time developers using Android and they have a fairly large collection of Android phones.  They won't say how many they have, but some of them show about 5 or 6 models of what they currently have and they are constantly buying new models and selling off their older ones almost like people go through toilet paper.  I was being partly sarcastic.  

  • Reply 28 of 35
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

    You're overestimating the bulk of developers when it comes to test procedures. With the bugs I've seen in the B and C titles on iOS and Android, it's pretty clear that much of their testing is farmed out to their users, and they're releasing "betas" as final releases. This is unfortunately common in a lot of software outside of the mobile arena as well.

     

    The iOS advantage in this case is the limited number of discrete configurations. It's entirely possible that a given developer would have access to the top 5 currently most popular iPads and Android tablets. For iOS devices, that would represent an enormous percentage of the user base, but this is not true for Android.

     

    I've seen plenty of people running around with several Android phones at the same time. probably because the battery life sucked is my guess. But I've only had one cell phone at any given time. But I've run into people running around with two and sometime three phones at the same time.

    Then you have a whole crop of these guys on the YouTube acting like Mr. Smartphone Expert and they basically have every model imaginable and they memorize every spec, every feature, but they are individuals. It's kind of stupid, but I'm sure that's part of it.
  • Reply 29 of 35
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    mj web wrote: »
    IPad excels at presentation which is helpful to me as an artist. It's useful having all my images and media instantly accessible in a portable format. I use 70% capacity. As you know the more capacity, the cheaper RAM cost. Problem for me is I prefer OS X over IOS, I'm acclimated to compute that way. I'm more comfortable with keyboard and trackpad over touch. I like typing on the iPad, it works beautifully, but is will never replace my MB Air. Users who came of age in the mobile era acclimate more easily to touch. 
    mj web wrote: »
    Recently bought first tablet, iPad Air 128 GB. It shines at presentations but aside from that sits collecting dust. Prefer surfing web on Macbook Air and creating content on iMac. Will I get another tablet anytime soon? NO!

    Oh, well then enjoy, you just made it sound like you were unhappy with the whole tablet concept.
  • Reply 30 of 35
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,476moderator
    relic wrote: »
    I recently had a friend who bought an iPad Air... she found the experience frustrating as a laptop replacment, so it was put in the drawer and forgotten. I convinced her to sell it and use the money towards a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, it's exactly what she was looking for and now couldn't be happier. I'm not saying the Lenovo is better or anything, for example with music creation I would personally still want the iPad but for office and programming then I would defiantly go with something like the ThinkPad.

    Is this a genuine story this time? It sounds like another one of those 'I know lots of people with broken iPhones' etc at which point comes the recommendation for an anything-but-Apple product. You even managed to slip in the drawer comment often used about Android tablets. This is the classic 'my friend/partner/child used to use something you like but then got something else and couldn't be happier':

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152839/rules-of-the-troll-wip#post_2250534

    A few people on Amazon seem to think they are garbage tablets:

    http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Tablet-Stylus-367927U/dp/B009TLA7P4

    Poor quality, poor user experience. The following is from someone who bought 40 tablets for productive use with Microsoft Access:

    "Of the 40 we purchased, 4 of them were not functional out of the box, 3 had OS problems and 1 just wouldn't turn on. An additional 1 broke 2 weeks later. We contacted Lenovo and are waiting for recovery DVDs to try to fix the 3 with the OS problems.

    The ones that are 'working' have had a host of problems, the batteries are inconsistent and do not last more the 6 hrs running a simple database. The digitizer pen is completely goofed. We have needed to recalibrate the thing continuously and the driver mysteriously causes and error and stop functioning. We have to reinstall the driver constantly just to keep it working. The unit sometimes just doesn't want to turn on and you have to 'reboot' the thing by holding the power button and volume button at the same time.

    Windows 8 is a complete joke. For anyone old enough to remember Windows 3.1, it is the same idea. A shell of an OS sitting on top of an established OS, in that case Windows 3.1 on top of DOS and in this case Windows 8 on top of Windows 7. I have both IPADs and Androids, there is no comparison. Windows 8 is not ready for prime time.

    Please do your self a favor and don't buy this product; feel my pain."

    The positive reviews mention the benefits of having full Windows but some even gave it a positive review after moving back to a laptop. Having a fully productive platform is nice but not with a classic UI because they have to revert to using a stylus.

    This is why Apple dominates in the tablet world, they stuck to making the device pleasant to use for long periods of time.
  • Reply 31 of 35
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Marvin wrote: »
    Is this a genuine story this time? It sounds like another one of those 'I know lots of people with broken iPhones' etc at which point comes the recommendation for an anything-but-Apple product. You even managed to slip in the drawer comment often used about Android tablets. This is the classic 'my friend/partner/child used to use something you like but then got something else and couldn't be happier':

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152839/rules-of-the-troll-wip#post_2250534

    A few people on Amazon seem to think they are garbage tablets:

    http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Tablet-Stylus-367927U/dp/B009TLA7P4

    Poor quality, poor user experience. The following is from someone who bought 40 tablets for productive use with Microsoft Access:

    "Of the 40 we purchased, 4 of them were not functional out of the box, 3 had OS problems and 1 just wouldn't turn on. An additional 1 broke 2 weeks later. We contacted Lenovo and are waiting for recovery DVDs to try to fix the 3 with the OS problems.

    The ones that are 'working' have had a host of problems, the batteries are inconsistent and do not last more the 6 hrs running a simple database. The digitizer pen is completely goofed. We have needed to recalibrate the thing continuously and the driver mysteriously causes and error and stop functioning. We have to reinstall the driver constantly just to keep it working. The unit sometimes just doesn't want to turn on and you have to 'reboot' the thing by holding the power button and volume button at the same time.

    Windows 8 is a complete joke. For anyone old enough to remember Windows 3.1, it is the same idea. A shell of an OS sitting on top of an established OS, in that case Windows 3.1 on top of DOS and in this case Windows 8 on top of Windows 7. I have both IPADs and Androids, there is no comparison. Windows 8 is not ready for prime time.

    Please do your self a favor and don't buy this product; feel my pain."

    The positive reviews mention the benefits of having full Windows but some even gave it a positive review after moving back to a laptop. Having a fully productive platform is nice but not with a classic UI because they have to revert to using a stylus.

    This is why Apple dominates in the tablet world, they stuck to making the device pleasant to use for long periods of time.

    Wow, so anyway yes I wouldn't make up a story for the sake of a post. I've mentioned before that I have the 8 inch version of the ThinkPad so for me to recommend to someone the 10 inch is very easy. There is no conspiracy here, I wasn't trying to convey that they were in anyway better. Just used it as an example of about knowing what you want before you buy something so, no need to sift through the Lenovo forums looking for an unsatisfied user. I think you are so used to defending Apple's honour that comments such as these are just reflex.

    How are you, haven't talked with you in awhile.
  • Reply 32 of 35
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    It's because the smartphone screen are getting larger and larger?
    I would use my iPad much more when I had an iPhone 4S and not nearly as much with a 5S. I would imagine much much less with an iPhone 6. It's too much like a large iPod touch with the exception of it now having Office.
  • Reply 33 of 35
    benjamin frostbenjamin frost Posts: 7,203member
    drblank wrote: »
    danv2 wrote: »
    I trust NPD's figures about as far as I can toss an African Bull Elephant. Their numbers aren't worth the paper their printed on, and neither is their research. Investor friends of mine have them on ignore totally now.
    And what numbers do you trust?   What numbers do you have for us to go by instead?

    Do you like BareFigures' numbers better?

    I trust Apple's numbers. They are the only company that provide any.
  • Reply 34 of 35
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post





    I trust Apple's numbers. They are the only company that provide any.

    Barefigures uses Apple numbers.  That's where they get their information from.  If you look at different graphs, they get cut off for some of it because Apple stopped reporting it in the manner that they used to, but Barefigures is Apple numbers.  I like the way they have it organized because you can do all sorts of comparisons and they update it shortly after Apple reports the new quarterly numbers.  It's a great site to play around with.

  • Reply 35 of 35
    benjamin frostbenjamin frost Posts: 7,203member
    drblank wrote: »
    I trust Apple's numbers. They are the only company that provide any.
    Barefigures uses Apple numbers.  That's where they get their information from.  If you look at different graphs, they get cut off for some of it because Apple stopped reporting it in the manner that they used to, but Barefigures is Apple numbers.  I like the way they have it organized because you can do all sorts of comparisons and they update it shortly after Apple reports the new quarterly numbers.  It's a great site to play around with.

    You're missing the point. NO-ONE BUT APPLE PROVIDES ANY NUMBERS.
Sign In or Register to comment.