<strong>Do some of you people realize how much nicer and easier life is if you don't go through it obsessing and harping on stuff like this?
Just curious...
What do you give a shit if Apple has Jimmy Smits or Kool & the Gang in their ads? Relax, get a life and mind your own P's and Q's.
I've always been amazed at people who, while on one hand go on about a "colorblind society" and not forming opinions on race, skin color, ethnicity, etc. will then turn around and scream and carry on when people do just that: DON'T notice and DON'T let it factor in or matter.
You can't have it both ways: either it DOES mater and is the end-all/be-all of civilization and should be talked about 24/7...or it doesn't matter at all and people should be judged on who they are, how they behave, what they do, etc. and NOT where they were born, how dark (or light) their skin or hair is.
I go with the latter. I judge and form opinions on everything BUT skin color. So if you're black and are acting like an asshole, it doesn't make me a racist to point that out. You're simply being an asshole and skin color doesn't - or shouldn't - factor in.</strong><hr></blockquote>
When you find this eutopia, please let me know.
Its easy for someone who's not part of a minority group to say "I don't judge based on color". Its another thing to be part of a minority and see the contrary on a daily basis.
Once again, that isn't what this thread was about. Everyone keeps turning it into a racial thing. All I kept asking was why just 20-30 something males? Why no women, why no elderly?
Quick, someone bring up another point about racism and ignore my original point.
Hey, why stop at skin color? Where's the gun-toting red neck? I'll bet there are more of them then there are blacks in this country. Why don't any of the actors speak with a southern accent? We're cutting off the south! Oh wait... oh my GOD!!!! THERE ARE NO HOMOSEXUALS IN APPLE'S ADS!!! They make up a good 1.5% - 2% of the population!
I agree. This situation needs to be remedied immediately!!!!!
And didn't Apple get s(crewed)ued late last year because they fired a person who happen to be a minority? If you want to see more diversity in Apple's advertising why don't you call the holy brother man himself, Al Sharpton.
I don't know, Willoughby. Maybe that's just how it has turned out.
Nobody here is going to have any satisfactory, helpful answers. Why don't you write a letter to Apple themselves and talk to them about it?
Raise your concerns and ask them these same questions you're asking us. Maybe someone will respond and who knows: you might have been instrumental in changing something.
Why do you want from us? We got two pages of stuff going on here. If you're not satisfied here, go to Apple themselves or try your luck at another forum, maybe with a different group of members?
<strong>When you find this eutopia, please let me know.
Its easy for someone who's not part of a minority group to say "I don't judge based on color". Its another thing to be part of a minority and see the contrary on a daily basis.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gee that's funny: all my black, Asian, Hispanic and gay friends and I don't sit around talking or thinking about this. Maybe I have found Utopia...or maybe I just choose to associate with people who aren't hung up on that stuff.
All my minority friends are walking around with shoulders fairly free of chips.
THAT'S how I know it has nothing to do with skin color and is more about internal factors like character, grounding, personality, etc.
And since you don't really know me, how do you know what group I'm part of?
For all you know, I might be a quadraplegic, bisexual Eskimo. Would my opinion be more or less valid or meaningful then?
<strong>Gee that's funny: all my black, Asian, Hispanic and gay friends and I don't sit around talking or thinking about this. Maybe I have found Utopia...or maybe I just choose to associate with people who aren't hung up on that stuff. All my minority friends are walking around with shoulders fairly free of chips...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Surely you don't think that they'd talk to persons outside of their racial/ethnic about these issues, do you? I don't.
Anyway, I am disappointed that this topic went the path it went. I feel that it is a valid discussion. I mean, is it possible that Apple's image been harmed by the perception that their core users are white? Is this why they are considered a niche player?
I really think that these are questions Apple must ask themselves as they look for ways to boost market share. Every ethnic group has people that can afford a moderate-to-high priced computer with a sense of style and elegance, so why don't they? Could it really be that they don't feel that Apple really wants their business?
Why do you want from us? We got two pages of stuff going on here. If you're not satisfied here, go to Apple themselves or try your luck at another forum, maybe with a different group of members?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wanted the thread to NOT be about racial issues. Race keeps coming up, demographics keeps coming up.
Why has no one brought up anything about sex or age?
I'm not looking for answers, I'm looking for thoughts on WHY the commercials feature only males, between the ages of 20-30 using the Apple products. I didn't ask why Apple isn't representing every race equally.
gordy, janitor and Amorph seem to have picked up on what this topic was about, they gave their opinions on why Apple probably made the ads the way they did. Thats all I was asking.
No matter how many times I said it wasn't about race, people ignored that.
it's funny, but you mention not who is in the commercials, but who is the user....because when i saw the commercials i thought just the opposite of you...i thought that apple was being wonderfully diverse....i see a man that i thought was from India descent dancing (poorly) with an iPod...i saw the great and wonderful George Clinton and Barry White being promeniently displayed and featured in the iTunes commercial...the young man with the iBook gets a distainful look from the african american woman sitting next to him on the plane....in the iTunes and iBook commercials maybe the user is a young white male, but people of all races and ages are seeing that young white male use his apple device....maybe that is what apple is hoping...the user base (especially in the states and canada) is probably largely white males...perhaps they are showing apple's user base with the product, but other races, ages etc are seeing the product and (with iTunes) helping him use his apple....at least apple is showing and using different people in their commercials (even if they aren't always the user)....intel uses the freaky aliens and dell has steve, and few people are whiter than steve.....g
Surely you don't think that they'd talk to persons outside of their racial/ethnic about these issues, do you? I don't.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know, Gordy. We talk about everything else: sex, love, money, jobs, design, movies, cars, sports, terrorism, current events, etc.
Just like people do.
And yes, we DO talk about race and stuff. But none of view themselves as "victims" OR has a membership card to the Perpetually Offended & Indignant Brigade either.
Back to Willoughby's thing, I don't know. But, as I said, maybe it's something you should write them about and express your opinion/concerns?
I saw some minorities in that "Rip, Mix & Burn" ad with all the musicians. The iPod guy isn't a WASP. The lady in the "Middle Aisle" spot was black.
I have to say this, though: Apple's stuff bothers me FAR less than seeing commercials that are BLATANTLY lunging for the "Gee, Aren't We Diverse and P.C.?" Lifetime Achievement Award.
THAT gets annoying and obnoxious, especially when it's heavy-handed and smarmy.
There are some commercials out there and they totally beat you over the head with including EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.
There's a way to do it that rings true and is transparent (you know, like REAL PEOPLE), but you can watch some of these things and say to yourself: "okay, that was test marketed..." or "yeah, there's the obligatory Asian chick or dreadlock dude..."
Honest to God, I never once looked at Apple's commercials and went "wow, they sure are white...". Maybe because I'm a white guy?
No, probably because I'm looking at them and marveling at their lameness and totaly ineffective approach and lack of balls?
On the contrary, ONLY Amorph picked up the main reason. There have been too few ads to pass judgement.
And out of the few ads mentioned, 1/3 included non-white male users.
Your original post was pointless. That's why the thread turned out the way it did. There was no validity to it as pointed out above. As long as Apple keeps putting out 1/3 of its ads with non-white males, will you be a good little activist?
I think Apple needs to have some large, big-boned, fat-ass hoochie-mamma on their next ad.
And how about a crack-smokin' black dude? That would diversify by showing an African American AND a drug user!
What about another fat person? America after all does have the most fat people...how about a 450 lb white dude bending over and showing us his carpenter crack?
I know why Apple doesn't do this. ...Steve Jobs is a racist. He probably funnels money into skinhead Nazi groups, and dreams of a White nation. That's why all new Macs are WHITE! Get it?
<strong>On the contrary, ONLY Amorph picked up the main reason. There have been too few ads to pass judgement.
And out of the few ads mentioned, 1/3 included non-white male users.
Your original post was pointless. That's why the thread turned out the way it did. There was no validity to it as pointed out above. As long as Apple keeps putting out 1/3 of its ads with non-white males, will you be a good little activist?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No need to be rude or sarcastic. I'm not trying to be an activist. I tried to bring up a discussion, if you think its pointless than why bother posting? When the discussion lost the focus I intended I tried to turn it back around, fruitlessly. When people get frustrated why do they always have to resort to personal attacks?
pscates, I appreciate your comments and thoughts. You make some very valid points and thanks for trying to understand what I'm saying.
You appear to be trying to have a rational discussion without the sarcasm or rudeness. I think I'm starting to see what you're saying and maybe I am off base. But at least I've got the decency to admit that.
I wish other people would think before they post replys that do nothing for the thread except belittle other people. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
On the contrary again, your initial post was pretty much an attack.
"My point is...where's Grandpa? Mom? The kids? The whole family? MINORITIES?!"
Are capitalization really necessary? No, you were patting yourself on the back with a "I am holier than Apple" stance. You've falsely accused Apple of lacking diversity in its ads.
This board is full of people like you...like students who correct teachers with erroneous information or like the pissants who froth whenever Dorsal posts a meaningless post. There's no justification. Where's the justification when 1/3 of Apple ads portray minority (ethnicity, age, whatever) users and every single ad within the last year has prominently featured minority individuals?
<strong>On the contrary again, your initial post was pretty much an attack.
"My point is...where's Grandpa? Mom? The kids? The whole family? MINORITIES?!"
Are capitalization really necessary? No, you were patting yourself on the back with a "I am holier than Apple" stance. You've falsely accused Apple of lacking diversity in its ads.
This board is full of people like you...like students who correct teachers with erroneous information or like the pissants who froth whenever Dorsal posts a meaningless post. There's no justification. Where's the justification when 1/3 of Apple ads portray minority (ethnicity, age, whatever) users and every single ad within the last year has prominently featured minority individuals?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I used capitilization to emphasize my point. Which you still don't get. I didn't personally attack any member of the board, which you did. I didn't say your posts where pointless or not valid. I was merely saying that the thread was taking a wrong turn, a turn with which I didn't want it to take. I was talking about USERS, not people in the ads. The USERS were all young males, except for iTools (mac.com) which is 1 out of 5.
What are "people like you"? What is that supposed to mean? Did you see the message on the forums homepage about negative posts? Why do you continue to post negative comments about me?
Where are you getting 1/3 anyway?
iPod, iBook, iPhoto, iDVD, iTools = 5. One of those featured more than young males using Apple's products. That seems like 1/5 to me. Remember, I'm talking about commercials.
I wanted to start a discussion, not a fight. I wouldn't consider my posts to be one from "pissants who froth".
But fine. You made your point. My post was useless, pointless and not valid. If you intended on making me feel like a shit, congratulations. Job well done <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
<strong>but what about a nice commercial of an African American family on a ski trip in the Pocono Mountains of PA filming their kids on the slopes, editing the movies with iMovie, emailing them to Grandma who watches it on her new iMac???
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I am a ski instructor at Montage Mountain in the Poconos!
I used capitilization to emphasize my point. Which you still don't get. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I understand it alright...
Capitalizing Words for Effect:
Such emphasis proves either that one cannot control oneself to speak in conversational tones, or much worse, that yelling and screaming is integral to one?s point-making process. Consequently, the use of capitalized words for effect is entirely inappropriate in correspondence.
[quote] But fine. You made your point. My post was useless, pointless and not valid. If you intended on making me feel like a shit, congratulations. Job well done <hr></blockquote>
Are we 13 years old and unable to handle criticism? You went on the offensive, attacking Apple for their supposed "lack of diversity" in their advertisements. It is common sense that you must defend such allegations.
You have forgotten the Mac.com ad that has been mentioned and acknowledged man times in thise thread alone. Wow, selective memory too. Who would have thought?
If you include print ads, the only two that even come to mind include minorities *only*.
<strong>You have forgotten the Mac.com ad that has been mentioned and acknowledged man times in thise thread alone. Wow, selective memory too. Who would have thought?
Comments
<strong>Do some of you people realize how much nicer and easier life is if you don't go through it obsessing and harping on stuff like this?
Just curious...
What do you give a shit if Apple has Jimmy Smits or Kool & the Gang in their ads? Relax, get a life and mind your own P's and Q's.
I've always been amazed at people who, while on one hand go on about a "colorblind society" and not forming opinions on race, skin color, ethnicity, etc. will then turn around and scream and carry on when people do just that: DON'T notice and DON'T let it factor in or matter.
You can't have it both ways: either it DOES mater and is the end-all/be-all of civilization and should be talked about 24/7...or it doesn't matter at all and people should be judged on who they are, how they behave, what they do, etc. and NOT where they were born, how dark (or light) their skin or hair is.
I go with the latter. I judge and form opinions on everything BUT skin color. So if you're black and are acting like an asshole, it doesn't make me a racist to point that out. You're simply being an asshole and skin color doesn't - or shouldn't - factor in.</strong><hr></blockquote>
When you find this eutopia, please let me know.
Its easy for someone who's not part of a minority group to say "I don't judge based on color". Its another thing to be part of a minority and see the contrary on a daily basis.
Once again, that isn't what this thread was about. Everyone keeps turning it into a racial thing. All I kept asking was why just 20-30 something males? Why no women, why no elderly?
Quick, someone bring up another point about racism and ignore my original point.
I agree. This situation needs to be remedied immediately!!!!!
mods! Please lock this thread. There's no point to it anymore.
Nobody here is going to have any satisfactory, helpful answers. Why don't you write a letter to Apple themselves and talk to them about it?
Raise your concerns and ask them these same questions you're asking us. Maybe someone will respond and who knows: you might have been instrumental in changing something.
Why do you want from us? We got two pages of stuff going on here. If you're not satisfied here, go to Apple themselves or try your luck at another forum, maybe with a different group of members?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>When you find this eutopia, please let me know.
Its easy for someone who's not part of a minority group to say "I don't judge based on color". Its another thing to be part of a minority and see the contrary on a daily basis.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gee that's funny: all my black, Asian, Hispanic and gay friends and I don't sit around talking or thinking about this. Maybe I have found Utopia...or maybe I just choose to associate with people who aren't hung up on that stuff.
All my minority friends are walking around with shoulders fairly free of chips.
THAT'S how I know it has nothing to do with skin color and is more about internal factors like character, grounding, personality, etc.
And since you don't really know me, how do you know what group I'm part of?
For all you know, I might be a quadraplegic, bisexual Eskimo. Would my opinion be more or less valid or meaningful then?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Gee that's funny: all my black, Asian, Hispanic and gay friends and I don't sit around talking or thinking about this. Maybe I have found Utopia...or maybe I just choose to associate with people who aren't hung up on that stuff. All my minority friends are walking around with shoulders fairly free of chips...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Surely you don't think that they'd talk to persons outside of their racial/ethnic about these issues, do you? I don't.
Anyway, I am disappointed that this topic went the path it went. I feel that it is a valid discussion. I mean, is it possible that Apple's image been harmed by the perception that their core users are white? Is this why they are considered a niche player?
I really think that these are questions Apple must ask themselves as they look for ways to boost market share. Every ethnic group has people that can afford a moderate-to-high priced computer with a sense of style and elegance, so why don't they? Could it really be that they don't feel that Apple really wants their business?
Perception is everything...
<strong>
Why do you want from us? We got two pages of stuff going on here. If you're not satisfied here, go to Apple themselves or try your luck at another forum, maybe with a different group of members?
I wanted the thread to NOT be about racial issues. Race keeps coming up, demographics keeps coming up.
Why has no one brought up anything about sex or age?
I'm not looking for answers, I'm looking for thoughts on WHY the commercials feature only males, between the ages of 20-30 using the Apple products. I didn't ask why Apple isn't representing every race equally.
gordy, janitor and Amorph seem to have picked up on what this topic was about, they gave their opinions on why Apple probably made the ads the way they did. Thats all I was asking.
No matter how many times I said it wasn't about race, people ignored that.
it's funny, but you mention not who is in the commercials, but who is the user....because when i saw the commercials i thought just the opposite of you...i thought that apple was being wonderfully diverse....i see a man that i thought was from India descent dancing (poorly) with an iPod...i saw the great and wonderful George Clinton and Barry White being promeniently displayed and featured in the iTunes commercial...the young man with the iBook gets a distainful look from the african american woman sitting next to him on the plane....in the iTunes and iBook commercials maybe the user is a young white male, but people of all races and ages are seeing that young white male use his apple device....maybe that is what apple is hoping...the user base (especially in the states and canada) is probably largely white males...perhaps they are showing apple's user base with the product, but other races, ages etc are seeing the product and (with iTunes) helping him use his apple....at least apple is showing and using different people in their commercials (even if they aren't always the user)....intel uses the freaky aliens and dell has steve, and few people are whiter than steve.....g
<strong>
Surely you don't think that they'd talk to persons outside of their racial/ethnic about these issues, do you? I don't.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know, Gordy. We talk about everything else: sex, love, money, jobs, design, movies, cars, sports, terrorism, current events, etc.
Just like people do.
And yes, we DO talk about race and stuff. But none of view themselves as "victims" OR has a membership card to the Perpetually Offended & Indignant Brigade either.
Back to Willoughby's thing, I don't know. But, as I said, maybe it's something you should write them about and express your opinion/concerns?
I saw some minorities in that "Rip, Mix & Burn" ad with all the musicians. The iPod guy isn't a WASP. The lady in the "Middle Aisle" spot was black.
I have to say this, though: Apple's stuff bothers me FAR less than seeing commercials that are BLATANTLY lunging for the "Gee, Aren't We Diverse and P.C.?" Lifetime Achievement Award.
THAT gets annoying and obnoxious, especially when it's heavy-handed and smarmy.
There are some commercials out there and they totally beat you over the head with including EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.
There's a way to do it that rings true and is transparent (you know, like REAL PEOPLE), but you can watch some of these things and say to yourself: "okay, that was test marketed..." or "yeah, there's the obligatory Asian chick or dreadlock dude..."
Honest to God, I never once looked at Apple's commercials and went "wow, they sure are white...". Maybe because I'm a white guy?
No, probably because I'm looking at them and marveling at their lameness and totaly ineffective approach and lack of balls?
And out of the few ads mentioned, 1/3 included non-white male users.
Your original post was pointless. That's why the thread turned out the way it did. There was no validity to it as pointed out above. As long as Apple keeps putting out 1/3 of its ads with non-white males, will you be a good little activist?
And how about a crack-smokin' black dude? That would diversify by showing an African American AND a drug user!
What about another fat person? America after all does have the most fat people...how about a 450 lb white dude bending over and showing us his carpenter crack?
I know why Apple doesn't do this. ...Steve Jobs is a racist. He probably funnels money into skinhead Nazi groups, and dreams of a White nation. That's why all new Macs are WHITE! Get it?
<strong>On the contrary, ONLY Amorph picked up the main reason. There have been too few ads to pass judgement.
And out of the few ads mentioned, 1/3 included non-white male users.
Your original post was pointless. That's why the thread turned out the way it did. There was no validity to it as pointed out above. As long as Apple keeps putting out 1/3 of its ads with non-white males, will you be a good little activist?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No need to be rude or sarcastic. I'm not trying to be an activist. I tried to bring up a discussion, if you think its pointless than why bother posting? When the discussion lost the focus I intended I tried to turn it back around, fruitlessly. When people get frustrated why do they always have to resort to personal attacks?
pscates, I appreciate your comments and thoughts. You make some very valid points and thanks for trying to understand what I'm saying.
You appear to be trying to have a rational discussion without the sarcasm or rudeness. I think I'm starting to see what you're saying and maybe I am off base. But at least I've got the decency to admit that.
I wish other people would think before they post replys that do nothing for the thread except belittle other people. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
"My point is...where's Grandpa? Mom? The kids? The whole family? MINORITIES?!"
Are capitalization really necessary? No, you were patting yourself on the back with a "I am holier than Apple" stance. You've falsely accused Apple of lacking diversity in its ads.
This board is full of people like you...like students who correct teachers with erroneous information or like the pissants who froth whenever Dorsal posts a meaningless post. There's no justification. Where's the justification when 1/3 of Apple ads portray minority (ethnicity, age, whatever) users and every single ad within the last year has prominently featured minority individuals?
<strong>On the contrary again, your initial post was pretty much an attack.
"My point is...where's Grandpa? Mom? The kids? The whole family? MINORITIES?!"
Are capitalization really necessary? No, you were patting yourself on the back with a "I am holier than Apple" stance. You've falsely accused Apple of lacking diversity in its ads.
This board is full of people like you...like students who correct teachers with erroneous information or like the pissants who froth whenever Dorsal posts a meaningless post. There's no justification. Where's the justification when 1/3 of Apple ads portray minority (ethnicity, age, whatever) users and every single ad within the last year has prominently featured minority individuals?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I used capitilization to emphasize my point. Which you still don't get. I didn't personally attack any member of the board, which you did. I didn't say your posts where pointless or not valid. I was merely saying that the thread was taking a wrong turn, a turn with which I didn't want it to take. I was talking about USERS, not people in the ads. The USERS were all young males, except for iTools (mac.com) which is 1 out of 5.
What are "people like you"? What is that supposed to mean? Did you see the message on the forums homepage about negative posts? Why do you continue to post negative comments about me?
Where are you getting 1/3 anyway?
iPod, iBook, iPhoto, iDVD, iTools = 5. One of those featured more than young males using Apple's products. That seems like 1/5 to me. Remember, I'm talking about commercials.
I wanted to start a discussion, not a fight. I wouldn't consider my posts to be one from "pissants who froth".
But fine. You made your point. My post was useless, pointless and not valid. If you intended on making me feel like a shit, congratulations. Job well done <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Willoughby ]</p>
<strong>but what about a nice commercial of an African American family on a ski trip in the Pocono Mountains of PA filming their kids on the slopes, editing the movies with iMovie, emailing them to Grandma who watches it on her new iMac???
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I am a ski instructor at Montage Mountain in the Poconos!
<strong>
I used capitilization to emphasize my point. Which you still don't get. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I understand it alright...
Capitalizing Words for Effect:
Such emphasis proves either that one cannot control oneself to speak in conversational tones, or much worse, that yelling and screaming is integral to one?s point-making process. Consequently, the use of capitalized words for effect is entirely inappropriate in correspondence.
[quote] But fine. You made your point. My post was useless, pointless and not valid. If you intended on making me feel like a shit, congratulations. Job well done <hr></blockquote>
Are we 13 years old and unable to handle criticism? You went on the offensive, attacking Apple for their supposed "lack of diversity" in their advertisements. It is common sense that you must defend such allegations.
[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]</p>
If you include print ads, the only two that even come to mind include minorities *only*.
print ad: 40+ year old Asian father
print ad: pre-teen black girl
[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>You have forgotten the Mac.com ad that has been mentioned and acknowledged man times in thise thread alone. Wow, selective memory too. Who would have thought?
[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Eugene, please go back and reread my post. I specifically said "iTools (mac.com)". SO thats still 5. Would you please point out how you got to 6?
Also, I specifically said commercials.
So now you're not even bothering to read my posts throughly. Great
I think I deserve an apology for that selective memory remark since you clearly didn't see that I mentioned that ad specifically.