Los Angeles school district to shift away from Apple's iPad to Windows, Chromebook



  • Reply 21 of 79
    runbuhrunbuh Posts: 315member
    j1h15233 wrote: »
    No it's a privilege, not a right and as a former teacher, I wish students and their "parents" would realize that.

    I think there may have been a missing /s in the post to which you are referring.

    However, it's all a matter of perspective. In the USA, if children are going to public schools, which are taxpayer funded, then many taxpaying parents of said children will claim that a K-12 education is a right. To the best of my knowledge, the Constitution does not state anything about education. However, many state constitutions do (if you believe what you read on the internets). For example, California states:

    The right to a public education in California is a fundamental right fully guaranteed and protected by the California Constitution



    SECTION 1. A general diffusion of knowledge and intelligence being
    essential to the preservation of the rights and liberties of the
    people, the Legislature shall encourage by all suitable means the
    promotion of intellectual, scientific, moral, and agricultural

    SEC. 5. The Legislature shall provide for a system of common
    schools by which a free school shall be kept up and supported in each
    district at least six months in every year, after the first year in
    which a school has been established.

    SEC. 7.5. The State Board of Education shall adopt textbooks for
    use in grades one through eight throughout the State, to be furnished
    without cost as provided by statute.
  • Reply 22 of 79
    phone-ui-guyphone-ui-guy Posts: 1,019member
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">iPads are too small for education.</span>

    Same size as a textbook, so no.

    Comparing the size to a closed textbook doesn't make much sense. Textbooks are generally more useful when open at twice the size of an iPad.
  • Reply 23 of 79
    stargazerctstargazerct Posts: 227member

    I can see the headlines now...


    "After transitioning from Apple to Windows, LA school district comes to a screeching halt as virus infects all learning devices."

    School superintendent finally concedes in a statement to the press "You get what you pay for, and we got f&$#!d" while IT department attempts to negotiate ransom with Vladamir "feel my bytes" Dipshinsky in the Ukraine. However, Homeland Security will not authorize the 10,000 surface-to-air missiles requested to unlock the devices. 

  • Reply 24 of 79
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,246member

    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

    Comparing the size to a closed textbook doesn't make much sense. Textbooks are generally more useful when open at twice the size of an iPad.

    Your comment only applies to picture books. Most students can only read one page at a time so comparing a single page to the iPad works for me. 


    Of course, "reading" is only one part of the educational process. Being able to experience what you're reading is something that's new. This is where a good multimedia book or web site viewed on a good visual device is at least as important as being able to read text. Many people learn better when seeing something instead of reading. Being able to do both helps more students. As far as being able to do a lot of typing, that's fine for English students but not always necessary for fine arts and technical education. Oh, wait, we only are paying to learn them how to read, rite, and do rithmatic.

  • Reply 25 of 79
    constable odoconstable odo Posts: 1,041member

    Unless there are some politics and bribes going on in the background, it appears as though Apple simply dropped the ball on this one.  I think most companies would practically bend over backwards to get a contract but it seems as though Apple always has this attitude of "We're Apple so our products sell themselves."  If Apple does make the best products then they should be grabbing contracts left and right.  If Apple needs to lower the cost then that's what they should do.  They can easily afford to take some losses to grab mind-share.  Maybe Apple is thinking that eventually the BOE will see the error of their ways for not choosing Apple but who knows.  I kind of think it should be a matter of pride that Apple should beat out Microsoft for educational contracts.  Any contract Apple loses to Microsoft is going to show up as bad press for Apple and a reason to devalue the company to investors.  I'm absolutely sure Apple knows what it is doing but I'm just saying how things appear to me.  It's a little odd how good iPads are in some situations but this case using iPads turned into a fiasco.  I thought it would be simple to lock down the iPads with better security but I guess that wasn't enough.

  • Reply 26 of 79
    thewhitefalconthewhitefalcon Posts: 4,453member
    Eh, let the school district be stupid. Kids know what devices are best. Why anyone would buy a Dell is beyond me.
  • Reply 27 of 79
    runbuhrunbuh Posts: 315member
    rob53 wrote: »
    Many people learn better when seeing something instead of reading. Being able to do both helps more students.

    Most people learn better with combined "seeing", "hearing", and "doing" over just one of these (and "reading" is "seeing", technically speaking).
  • Reply 28 of 79
    suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,819member
    The only thing this story confirms is whatever you already believe. It's self-confirmation bias run amok.
  • Reply 29 of 79
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    I think this said it all!!


    Today teacher are spending too much time Teaching (well not teaching more like directing) kid how to find answers, not problem solve. Most kids today can not problem solve themselves out of paper bag. I see it all the time and I work with youths in scouting and unless the kids have seen the situation before they have no idea how to approach a new problem. they do not know how to look around them and see what is available to them or look out side the box, unless the have the internet they can not answer questions which have not obviously right or wrong answer, it just the matter of solving the problem..


    Personally there is no reason why kids need laptop or even iPads, as one educator said Ipad if too fragile, so are laptop in the hands of kids especially if they did not buy it. Look at how many kids walk around with broken displays on their cell phone.



    Originally Posted by DewMe View Post


    This is simply another indicator that the school system doesn't really know what it's doing and is flailing around wildly trying to find a technological fix to a problem that has nothing to do with technology. This has nothing at all to do with Apple, the iPad, ChromeBooks, or Windows PCs. This is simply a failing school system with too much money to spend and taxpayers and parents who are too lazy to take responsibility for their children's education and are more than willing to delegate responsibility to a machine. Educating young people properly comes down to the quality of the educational system, the ability of educators to connect with students in a meaningful way, engaging the parents, creating an environment for intellectual enrichment, and having people in the system who can make it all work regardless of the tool de jour and the desire to satisfy their own financial and political self interests. Technology will come and technology will go. No technology, even stellar immersive technology like the iPad, can substitute for gross inadequacies in other parts of the educational system. Plus, there is never one tool that serves all possible needs for students across all age groups, capabilities, and tasks.


    Those folks who keep spewing the pre-iPad-release crusty and moronic party line about the iPad being a "consumption only device" simply don't get it - and sadly never will. Once one's head is firmly ensconced in the colon of silence there's little opportunity for a clean extraction. If you believe that creation is all about putting together a pivot table in a spreadsheet or photoshopping 15 lbs and 4 inches off a model's thighs you're missing the whole point. If you believe creativity is only about content creation you're wrong. Content creation is an industrial endeavor. If all we're trying to do in education is crank out the next generation of industrial servants, then yeah, put business and industrial machinery like Windows PCs in the hands of students so we can prime the industrial machine with more raw material. May as well hone their burger flipping and deep fat fryer skills at the same time and issue each student a spatula and George Forman grill instead of a creativity enriching device like the iPad.


    The iPad has proven to be an incredible tool for fostering creativity, especially for younger students, gifted students, special needs students, and creatives in general. Does it serve every educational need or every task at hand? Hell no. I can't imagine why anyone would think that it could. There will always be a need for a mix of tools and educators who know how to best apply them to serve the needs of students and society. However, it still comes down to the fact that primary education has to teach every student to learn how to learn. The bulk of this responsibility falls on the parents and the educators and not the latest trends in technology. The mere fact that a school district would queue up an enormous technology buy without having a very clear, proven, and somewhat foolproof plan already in place for how these devices would be used to enrich the educational process is evidence that they don't have a friggen clue about what they are doing and are completely shirking their responsibility as professional educators. 


    In other words, it's simply business as usual in the public education system. 

  • Reply 30 of 79

    the iPad does not fit the needs of students taking standardized tests, citing insufficient screen size and the lack of a built-in keyboard as major deficiencies.


    Pretty clear reasoning to me. But why consider a SurfacePro instead of a MacBookAir?  In any event, I think it's just too easy to armchair-quarterback this issue: I am sure the school district has made a thorough analysis.  This is the competitive marketplace "in action" and should stimulate Apple and others to devise better solutions if they wish access to that market.

  • Reply 31 of 79
    tracertracer Posts: 11member
    "School administrators will be able to select....."

    Oh yes the School Administrators are the best people to make the selection.
    Not Teachers, Students or Parents.
  • Reply 32 of 79
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Funny, I don't recall Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Euclid, Newton, Bayes, Einstein... and so many more... having access to any kind of computing device beside their own brains. If a child or an educator cannot think, any kind of tool available to them is a waste.

    The fact is, schools are babysitting factories where individuality and creativity are rarely rewarded. Curiosity, self-study and an understanding that education does not begin or end at school, but from within has been my most valuable life lesson.
  • Reply 33 of 79
    wmsfowmsfo Posts: 28member

    In case you missed it - Apple does provide a free tool that allows you to deploy iPad, iPhone, iPod touch, and Apple TV devices in schools and businesses.


    You can:


    configure only once, then deploy

    control and configure on an ongoing basis

    assign devices to specific users in an organization

    can install free apps, paid apps using Volume Purchase Program (VPP) codes


    For an overview - please see - http://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/1.5/#cadf1802aed

  • Reply 34 of 79
    wmsfowmsfo Posts: 28member

    And if that is not enough here is some more reference/technical materials for Education Deployment:


    Manage Devices and Content in the Classroom - http://www.apple.com/education/it/


    iOS 7 Deployment Overview - http://images.apple.com/education/docs/EDU_Deployment_Overview_EN_Mar14.pdf


    Looks like Apple does provide methods of deploying iOS devices ...

  • Reply 35 of 79
    flippyscflippysc Posts: 34member

    I know a school district that chose to provide their students with Chromebooks based on having a built-in keyboard in order for the students to take standardized tests. 

  • Reply 36 of 79
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    flippysc wrote: »
    I know a school district that chose to provide their students with Chromebooks based on having a built-in keyboard in order for the students to take standardized tests. 

    Mustn't allow any of the robots to escape from the factory floor.
  • Reply 37 of 79
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,246member

    Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

    Most people learn better with combined "seeing", "hearing", and "doing" over just one of these (and "reading" is "seeing", technically speaking).

    I don't want this to become a semantics conversation but what I was attempting to say is that people learn using different techniques, one way doesn't meet everyone's needs (my wife is a teacher, three of my brothers are teachers, and two of my sister-in-laws are teachers--I'm not but I get an ear full every time we meet). Saying "most people learn better with combined ..." doesn't necessarily apply. Each student is different, which is why the no student left behind stupidity doesn't work. This was done by administrators who's only goal is to get good test numbers to improve their salary instead caring about whether a kid actually learns anything. 


    Reading is seeing only to the extent your eyes process the text converting them into words the brain hopefully understands. When someone watches a movie or visual presentation (excluding Powerpoint), they learn by seeing the objects, not necessarily by reading the subtitles. This is also how people learn by watching, then doing, what someone else does, which is why we really need to do back to apprenticeship programs instead of only using books to teach kids. Just reading something doesn't teach a kid how to do much of anything. Just pushing buttons doesn't do much either, unless it comes with visual aids.


    Of course the school districts spend more time providing child care many parents refuse to accept as their responsibility than actually getting them ready to exist on their own in this world. 

  • Reply 38 of 79
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,246member

    Originally Posted by flippysc View Post


    I know a school district that chose to provide their students with Chromebooks based on having a built-in keyboard in order for the students to take standardized tests. 

    I'm trying to remember the last time a test actually taught me anything. A test, especially a standardized one for all the robot kids we're trying to educate (thanks SpamSandwich), doesn't teach a student anything and is only used to gauge how good their short-term memory is. That's why everyone continues to cram the night before a test then forgets everything during finals. If something a teacher tells you doesn't stick for more than a few weeks, it never will and is useless (just like those stupid standardized tests). Why can't we let our teachers get back to real teaching instead of helping kids just pass tests?

  • Reply 39 of 79
    curtis hannahcurtis hannah Posts: 1,833member
    Interesting. If students need a traditional personal computer, well, Apple makes those too.

    I would argue though, that regardless, students could benefit from a quality e-textbook reader. And the iPad makes a fine platform for that.
    Then there comes the $ problem, now this is stupid because everyone knows to not get chrome, and most won't get a windows laptop
  • Reply 40 of 79
    karmadavekarmadave Posts: 369member

    I think there is a huge backstory involving lots of vendor protests, back room dealing, etc. The bottom line is you are never going to get a large, public institution like LAUSD to 'standardize' on any one platform. There are multiple factions each with their own preferences and agendas. The higher ups probably came to the conclusion that they needed to offer a range of devices and allows teachers and administrators to choose what they want within a list of supported offerings. This is pretty much what went down in my opinion...

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