That is one way to solve problems related to worker's rights - get rid of the workers.
Nope. These are two separate issues.
Essential workers indeed have rights and should demand them.
But those rights do NOT extend to the presevation of those jobs when they can indeed be replaced by robots. When job functions can be duplicated and improved upon by robots, then the answer is clear.
People interested in working should be flexible enough to predict the eventual loss of the jobs they're currently on and invest before they lose their jobs in training and/or re-location in order to prepare for new and better employment elsewhere.
Companies have responsibilities to their investors and to preserving the company's own wellbeing to always be improving productivity and viability. Employees' wages and benefits can only go so high before they become too expensive. Robots reduce the cost of production while increasing quality. They also relieve humans of drudgery and hazardous/dangerous working conditions.
If jobs disappear as a result, it's not the company's fault. They've simply moved beyond the need for those jobs.
It simply goes back to the need for individuals to prepare themselves for new, possibly different jobs with different skil sets. This means re-education. There's absolutely nothing wrong or unfair about this. It's call progress. If companies can progress, so can and should individuals progress in acquiring new job skills.
From an employment perspective it means that Chinese wages are rising fast enough to make it worthwhile investing in automation. It is cheaper to pay for robot installation for some jobs than compete on price (wages) for manual labour.
Sadly for some commenters, it's a zero sum game. Chinese people apparently can't get a job anywhere else but Foxconn, and aren't allowed to get paid more or get a better paying job.
I'd like to see Apple using this effort to create a competitive moat. It is not clear from this that they are. If not, Foxconn will just flip the switch on for all vendors
That's selfish and silly. Foxconn should be able to benefit fully from this huge capital investment and be able to sell its services to all of its customers. Apple's competitive edge does not depend solely upon Foxconn's products, just as no competitor would suddenly gain an advantage over Apple simply from Foxconn's robotic production for them.
"[Foxconn] plans to roll out robots on assembly lines..., possibly in time for production of the so-called "iPhone 6.""
somewhat contradictory to
"...Foxconn will still have to rely on human hands for the foreseeable future. In June, a report claimed the firm would be hiring some 100,000 employees in ramp up to production of Apple's next-generation iPhone, which is rumored to start in July."
?
It's just you.
They'll probably be doing both simultaneously. It's called phase over.
It'll simply serve to demonstrate to all concerned how the robotically-produced products will come out faster and with fewer flaws than the ones produced by humans.
a real asshole. I hope you're just being sarcastic.
I'll tell you who the real assholes in this story are.
Somebody like Mike Daisey is a real asshole, with his fraud of a monologue, where he lied and fabricated stories about those "poor workers" in China. If he's so concerned about them, then maybe he should hire them, now that quite a few of them will possibly be looking for new work. What a jerk.
Certain media outlets and some people who call themselves journalists are the real assholes in this story, especially those that would try to frame every single negative Foxconn story into an anti-Apple story, even though Apple is only one of Foxconn's many customers. The New York Times are real assholes for their strange anti-Apple reporting. This has been going on for years now.
Real assholes are people and groups who pretend to care about the workers, because at the end of the day, they're just clueless dipshits, spreading lies, misinformation and repeating poorly produced propaganda. They'll exaggerate and lie about almost everything regarding the workers. They're not poorly paid and their suicide rate is actually lower than that of many other groups. The workers should consider themselves lucky.
This move to robots is a great move for Foxconn though, and it's also good for Apple, because the fewer workers there are, the less the chances are that we are going to read about any BS in the future coming from the usual suspects. So that's why I say, great job komrades! You did not disappoint me. Keep up the good work Mike Daisey! Soon you can probably make a show about how robots are poorly treated!" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
This is, of course, exactly what Steve Jobs was referring to when he told Obama, "Those jobs aren't coming back." He, along with the rest of us with a brain in our heads, knew that, even should manufacturing of iDevices come back on shore, it would only be through application of fully automated factories. This will begin with Foxconn, but eventually there will spring up small automated manufacturing lines here and in other places around the world. Apple will take advantage of these to provide reduce risk of manufacturing bottlenecks and disruptions while providing just-in-time production of its products to significant local markets and creation of some, but not many, local jobs for those who will manage and maintain the automated factories and logistics needed to supply them.
That's selfish and silly. Foxconn should be able to benefit fully from this huge capital investment and be able to sell its services to all of its customers. Apple's competitive edge does not depend solely upon Foxconn's products, just as no competitor would suddenly gain an advantage over Apple simply from Foxconn's robotic production for them.
Right. Because Apple does not do strategic sourcing and mfg arrangements. Silly me
Well there would have to be skilled human workers to service the robots. At least until someone makes robots to service those robots.
I'm genuinely concerned about the long term social consequences of robots replacing unskilled labor. If we get to a point where no-one can afford to buy the things which the robots produce then the whole system collapses.
That's where the vast majority of jobs are headed, first labor, then knowledge-based jobs, then even a lot of creativity-based jobs. There will come a day that a computer can design a better robot than a team of engineers can. We're going to need an entirely different social system.
If these workers are only making around $1.87 per hour... and the work is grueling and hazardous...
What [I]else[/I] could they be doing?
All the stories I've heard about Foxconn is people work long hours and live in horrible conditions just to send money home to their families. Thousands of people line up hoping they're lucky enough to get a job at Foxconn.
So if it wasn't for Foxconn... where else would they work?
Robots put workers out of jobs. So now we have thousands of workers that only know how to put iPhones together, unable to support themselves and their families.
Typical outdated comments about China. One of the biggest issues for factories in China is getting staff to work. This is because of the rapidly growing middle class and the reluctance to do labour intensive work. Ring any bells in the West?
"Each Foxbot can complete an average of 30,000 devices per year, meaning a release of 10,000 would theoretically yield 300,000 iPhones if tasked to that production line."
That 300,000 should be 300,000,000. But that conflicts with the later statement that Terry Gou predicted 1 million robots online by 2014 (I recall that statement from years ago). Either the Foxbots are far more capable than the robots originally mentioned by Gou, or some of the numbers in the article are wrong.
iPhones are produced on an assembly line. If robots replace people, a single robot still doesn't build an iPhone. If an iPhone takes 1000 steps to assemble, then 1,000 of these robots can produce 30,000 iPhones per year, and 10,000 can produce 300,000. But I'm still skeptical the author has the numbers right!
Comments
Well there would have to be skilled human workers to service the robots. At least until someone makes robots to service those robots.
I wasn't aware that the robots would have, er, such needs.
That is one way to solve problems related to worker's rights - get rid of the workers.
Nope. These are two separate issues.
Essential workers indeed have rights and should demand them.
But those rights do NOT extend to the presevation of those jobs when they can indeed be replaced by robots. When job functions can be duplicated and improved upon by robots, then the answer is clear.
People interested in working should be flexible enough to predict the eventual loss of the jobs they're currently on and invest before they lose their jobs in training and/or re-location in order to prepare for new and better employment elsewhere.
Companies have responsibilities to their investors and to preserving the company's own wellbeing to always be improving productivity and viability. Employees' wages and benefits can only go so high before they become too expensive. Robots reduce the cost of production while increasing quality. They also relieve humans of drudgery and hazardous/dangerous working conditions.
If jobs disappear as a result, it's not the company's fault. They've simply moved beyond the need for those jobs.
It simply goes back to the need for individuals to prepare themselves for new, possibly different jobs with different skil sets. This means re-education. There's absolutely nothing wrong or unfair about this. It's call progress. If companies can progress, so can and should individuals progress in acquiring new job skills.
Sadly for some commenters, it's a zero sum game. Chinese people apparently can't get a job anywhere else but Foxconn, and aren't allowed to get paid more or get a better paying job.
I'd like to see Apple using this effort to create a competitive moat. It is not clear from this that they are. If not, Foxconn will just flip the switch on for all vendors
That's selfish and silly. Foxconn should be able to benefit fully from this huge capital investment and be able to sell its services to all of its customers. Apple's competitive edge does not depend solely upon Foxconn's products, just as no competitor would suddenly gain an advantage over Apple simply from Foxconn's robotic production for them.
Sheesh Innumeracy on this site is a real problem. It's not just leaving off numbers: it's not making sense.
For a other example, ten thousand a year adds up to just under four an hour.
Is that what a robot can produce? 1 iPhone every 15 minutes?
I have no idea if that's fast or slow. It's just that I have no confidence in their answer.
Another thought. If see robots put that many people out of work, I foresee it could destabilize China
Confer arguments based on numbers are welcome.
Is it just me, or is
"[Foxconn] plans to roll out robots on assembly lines..., possibly in time for production of the so-called "iPhone 6.""
somewhat contradictory to
"...Foxconn will still have to rely on human hands for the foreseeable future. In June, a report claimed the firm would be hiring some 100,000 employees in ramp up to production of Apple's next-generation iPhone, which is rumored to start in July."
?
It's just you.
They'll probably be doing both simultaneously. It's called phase over.
It'll simply serve to demonstrate to all concerned how the robotically-produced products will come out faster and with fewer flaws than the ones produced by humans.
a real asshole. I hope you're just being sarcastic.
I'll tell you who the real assholes in this story are.
Somebody like Mike Daisey is a real asshole, with his fraud of a monologue, where he lied and fabricated stories about those "poor workers" in China. If he's so concerned about them, then maybe he should hire them, now that quite a few of them will possibly be looking for new work. What a jerk.
Certain media outlets and some people who call themselves journalists are the real assholes in this story, especially those that would try to frame every single negative Foxconn story into an anti-Apple story, even though Apple is only one of Foxconn's many customers. The New York Times are real assholes for their strange anti-Apple reporting. This has been going on for years now.
Real assholes are people and groups who pretend to care about the workers, because at the end of the day, they're just clueless dipshits, spreading lies, misinformation and repeating poorly produced propaganda. They'll exaggerate and lie about almost everything regarding the workers. They're not poorly paid and their suicide rate is actually lower than that of many other groups. The workers should consider themselves lucky.
This move to robots is a great move for Foxconn though, and it's also good for Apple, because the fewer workers there are, the less the chances are that we are going to read about any BS in the future coming from the usual suspects. So that's why I say, great job komrades! You did not disappoint me. Keep up the good work Mike Daisey! Soon you can probably make a show about how robots are poorly treated!
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Oooh, then well get to watch some foxy-boting.
Also, as to the iPhone workers; I guess they'll have to be transferred to the division that builds the robots.
Right. Because Apple does not do strategic sourcing and mfg arrangements. Silly me
But any Droid Army would run Android 2.3, and we all know Google can do no evil.
Those robots look just like real people¡
Does the ¡ mean you are being sarcastic and the robots in the picture don't look like real people?
Well there would have to be skilled human workers to service the robots. At least until someone makes robots to service those robots.
I'm genuinely concerned about the long term social consequences of robots replacing unskilled labor. If we get to a point where no-one can afford to buy the things which the robots produce then the whole system collapses.
That's where the vast majority of jobs are headed, first labor, then knowledge-based jobs, then even a lot of creativity-based jobs. There will come a day that a computer can design a better robot than a team of engineers can. We're going to need an entirely different social system.
If these workers are only making around $1.87 per hour... and the work is grueling and hazardous...
What [I]else[/I] could they be doing?
All the stories I've heard about Foxconn is people work long hours and live in horrible conditions just to send money home to their families. Thousands of people line up hoping they're lucky enough to get a job at Foxconn.
So if it wasn't for Foxconn... where else would they work?
Robots put workers out of jobs. So now we have thousands of workers that only know how to put iPhones together, unable to support themselves and their families.
"Each Foxbot can complete an average of 30,000 devices per year, meaning a release of 10,000 would theoretically yield 300,000 iPhones if tasked to that production line."
That 300,000 should be 300,000,000. But that conflicts with the later statement that Terry Gou predicted 1 million robots online by 2014 (I recall that statement from years ago). Either the Foxbots are far more capable than the robots originally mentioned by Gou, or some of the numbers in the article are wrong.
iPhones are produced on an assembly line. If robots replace people, a single robot still doesn't build an iPhone. If an iPhone takes 1000 steps to assemble, then 1,000 of these robots can produce 30,000 iPhones per year, and 10,000 can produce 300,000. But I'm still skeptical the author has the numbers right!