This is both good news and bad news. Great that we the consumer should see less delays come launch day. Sucks if you are one of the 1.2 million that may see the bread line in that plant. Technology is great and all but the human toll will continue to hit us in the pocket as we head into the future. Not sure how sustainable our present situation really is.
Fox must have finally convinced the China government to allow robots or automation assembly systems. In China as far back to when they first started manufacturing stuff for the outside world outlawed the use of any automation which a human could do. China is all about putting people to work, not making it more profitable for companies.
I can not see Foxconn replacing a large majority of the workers, since i would say the government is still against whole scale automation especially for tasks a human can do just as well.
Fox must have finally convinced the China government to allow robots or automation assembly systems. In China as far back to when they first started manufacturing stuff for the outside world outlawed the use of any automation which a human could do. China is all about putting people to work, not making it more profitable for companies.
I can not see Foxconn replacing a large majority of the workers, since i would say the government is still against whole scale automation especially for tasks a human can do just as well.
That's the great thing about automation. It frees the manufacturer from having to be located where there are large numbers of available workers. The Chinese government, if it is taking an active stance in Foxconn's rollout of automated assembly lines, must be aware that those assembly lines could instead be located outside its borders. And so a smart decision would be to allow the automation in order to retain the tax revenue and whatever jobs come along with it.
Something tells me that it will be a while before there are no people on the lines. These robots will be used for selective functions that either don't really need a human, like boxing up the units, or might involve potentially harzardous chemicals, like polishing the screens before applying the oleophobic coating allegedly does.
There will also need to be humans for maintaining the robots and verifying that nothing goes wrong.
And then there's the other 100 or so clients. Just cause the iPhone lines are being filled with robots doesn't mean all the others are also
I'd like to see Apple using this effort to create a competitive moat. It is not clear from this that they are. If not, Foxconn will just flip the switch on for all vendors
This is, of course, exactly what Steve Jobs was referring to when he told Obama, "Those jobs aren't coming back." He, along with the rest of us with a brain in our heads, knew that, even should manufacturing of iDevices come back on shore, it would only be through application of fully automated factories.
this. When I read the headline I was thinking about Apple bringing production back to the US. I think they want to strategically own and control all production for their products eventually. If they own the whole value chain they get the whole pie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
Robots put workers out of jobs. So now we have thousands of workers that only know how to put iPhones together, unable to support themselves and their families.
A company isn't obligated to provide a job for every employee it hires for the rest of their lives. If a company can optimize it's operations it should do so, regardless of whether that means eliminating some jobs. Companies are in the business of creating value in the most efficient way possible, not the business of charity or creating/maintaining jobs for jobs sake.
Should every product produced in the world today be done so by purely human labor? Machines, including robots, are usually specifically designed to reduce manual labor, do things more efficiently, and "put workers out of jobs". We shouldn't anchor ourselves to pre-industrialism just because someone will lose their job. Efficiency is a virtue; needless inefficiency is not.
I feel for anyone who loses their job. I still remember when my dad was 'downsized' from a company he spent 20+ years at. It was the hardest thing I ever saw him go through. But I also still remember how he worked his tail off to get another job that would pay enough to support our family. It took him about a year, but his work ethic paid off. People can find new jobs, and being let go isn't the end of the world. It certainly isn't even close to wrong to let employees go when you no longer have need of their services. It would be silly not to.
Ultimately, there is, of course, a simple solution to the problem of a reduction in jobs for humans. Less humans. Just slow down the manufacture of humans (see, China's one-child policy) until there is a balance between supply and demand in a future world.
Why you gotta be hatin' on the human? You ARE one!
In all seriousness though, if you're unaware of the problems caused by an aging population you are missing a critical social disaster built into such a 'solution'. China's one-child policy is unsustainable in the short to medium term, whatever you think of long-term sustainability. And the US will be feeling the impact soon enough. This isn't a matter of politics or opinion - if there are far fewer people working and far more non-working people in an age bracket where health care costs are far greater it's a matter of simple math. To ignore it because of politics or opinion is to bury your head in the sand.
Well, one possible new use of unskilled labour might be looking after the elderly, with aging population issues?
Eventually the whole idea of identical mass produced devices will go by the wayside, because it is not ideal. It is the 1800/1900s way of doing things. Ideally, whatever situation you find yourself in, you want the ability to manufacture a custom device for that situation on the spot. e.g. your backpack contains a personal mini-factory.
The custom one-off concept is interesting. I recently customized my Nike shoes. They allow you to modify almost every aspect of the color and materials. Very nice and made in USA, Tennessee I think. And fast too. I received them in about a week. They also send updates every other day as the process continues.
Ultimately, there is, of course, a simple solution to the problem of a reduction in jobs for humans. Less humans. Just slow down the manufacture of humans.
Mmm, nah. That’s not how a sane species rolls.
He does have a valid point. China already addressed the issue by not allowing more than one child per couple. In the US for awhile there was a voluntary reduction of couples having children because women were building careers first and delaying parenting. Of course that all got thrown out the window with a mass illegal anchor babies crisis. The planet is actually overpopulated and we are already experiencing sustainability issues which will likely continue to deteriorate. The sanity of the specie may also be called into question. With all the wars and civil unrest around the world, the population may be drastically and suddenly reduced in a not so pleasant manner.
The custom one-off concept is interesting. I recently customized my Nike shoes. They allow you to modify almost every aspect of the color and materials. Very nice and made in USA, Tennessee I think. And fast too. I received them in about a week. They also send updates every other day as the process continues.
As an aside too much choice may not be good either. I've actually trimmed back some of my product options and found sales closing much faster.
Sorry but Motorola will be closing that factory in the US. I believe that announcement was made a few weeks ago.
Yes Too many option is costly to the manufacturer, give consumers too many choices and they will never make a decision, just go to a paint store and watch how long it takes people to pick a color to paint their walls. Paint is not a big deal since they mix it on the spot, paint out of the factory is all white.
Sorry but Motorola will be closing that factory in the US. I believe that announcement was made a few weeks ago.
Yes Too many option is costly to the manufacturer, give consumers too many choices and they will never make a decision, just go to a paint store and watch how long it takes people to pick a color to paint their walls. Paint is not a big deal since they mix it on the spot, paint out of the factory is all white.
It was widely published it will be closing the end of this year, but the example is still valid and the service still available for now. Unfortunate IMHO that management made so many options available, from the backplate color to the trim to even features, wallpaper and custom signature. Just too much really.
That's the great thing about automation. It frees the manufacturer from having to be located where there are large numbers of available workers. The Chinese government, if it is taking an active stance in Foxconn's rollout of automated assembly lines, must be aware that those assembly lines could instead be located outside its borders. And so a smart decision would be to allow the automation in order to retain the tax revenue and whatever jobs come along with it.
Yeah I would tend to agree, but China never saw it that way. There is a definite break even point of automation over labor and how much you can sell the product for. China always love high complexity product with their low labor costs since labor cost were always less then automation costs especially if you could not use the automation across lots of different products over the years.
GE who was one of the largest producers of light bulbs in the world, looked at moving its bulb production to China, but it did not make sense since they had automated it back in the 80's and 90's and factory runs with little human involvement and if they moved it to china which did not allow automation at the time GE costs of production would have gone up not down and it would have been a margin hit to them to move it.
We also know that Foxconn bought the Amp/Tyco Manufacturing facility in Harrisburg PA and they said they plan to create a state of the art robotic factory there. Foxconn may be putting a large number of those foxbot at that location. They are also in partnership with CMU which is big into robotic automation.
The government gave the population economic freedom but not personal freedom - 1 child / censor this / restrict access to that.
Economic opportunities have kept the population under control but take away economic opportunities & how long before we hear the cries for real democracy.
We have alot of workers in this country that would love to have those jobs if China's works can't step it up.
Comments
Fox must have finally convinced the China government to allow robots or automation assembly systems. In China as far back to when they first started manufacturing stuff for the outside world outlawed the use of any automation which a human could do. China is all about putting people to work, not making it more profitable for companies.
I can not see Foxconn replacing a large majority of the workers, since i would say the government is still against whole scale automation especially for tasks a human can do just as well.
Fox must have finally convinced the China government to allow robots or automation assembly systems. In China as far back to when they first started manufacturing stuff for the outside world outlawed the use of any automation which a human could do. China is all about putting people to work, not making it more profitable for companies.
I can not see Foxconn replacing a large majority of the workers, since i would say the government is still against whole scale automation especially for tasks a human can do just as well.
That's the great thing about automation. It frees the manufacturer from having to be located where there are large numbers of available workers. The Chinese government, if it is taking an active stance in Foxconn's rollout of automated assembly lines, must be aware that those assembly lines could instead be located outside its borders. And so a smart decision would be to allow the automation in order to retain the tax revenue and whatever jobs come along with it.
Introducing the new FoxyBot!
There will also need to be humans for maintaining the robots and verifying that nothing goes wrong.
And then there's the other 100 or so clients. Just cause the iPhone lines are being filled with robots doesn't mean all the others are also
Screw the iphone 6, I want one of those robots(female version please)!
This is, of course, exactly what Steve Jobs was referring to when he told Obama, "Those jobs aren't coming back." He, along with the rest of us with a brain in our heads, knew that, even should manufacturing of iDevices come back on shore, it would only be through application of fully automated factories.
this. When I read the headline I was thinking about Apple bringing production back to the US. I think they want to strategically own and control all production for their products eventually. If they own the whole value chain they get the whole pie
Robots put workers out of jobs. So now we have thousands of workers that only know how to put iPhones together, unable to support themselves and their families.
A company isn't obligated to provide a job for every employee it hires for the rest of their lives. If a company can optimize it's operations it should do so, regardless of whether that means eliminating some jobs. Companies are in the business of creating value in the most efficient way possible, not the business of charity or creating/maintaining jobs for jobs sake.
Should every product produced in the world today be done so by purely human labor? Machines, including robots, are usually specifically designed to reduce manual labor, do things more efficiently, and "put workers out of jobs". We shouldn't anchor ourselves to pre-industrialism just because someone will lose their job. Efficiency is a virtue; needless inefficiency is not.
I feel for anyone who loses their job. I still remember when my dad was 'downsized' from a company he spent 20+ years at. It was the hardest thing I ever saw him go through. But I also still remember how he worked his tail off to get another job that would pay enough to support our family. It took him about a year, but his work ethic paid off. People can find new jobs, and being let go isn't the end of the world. It certainly isn't even close to wrong to let employees go when you no longer have need of their services. It would be silly not to.
Ultimately, there is, of course, a simple solution to the problem of a reduction in jobs for humans. Less humans. Just slow down the manufacture of humans (see, China's one-child policy) until there is a balance between supply and demand in a future world.
Why you gotta be hatin' on the human? You ARE one!
In all seriousness though, if you're unaware of the problems caused by an aging population you are missing a critical social disaster built into such a 'solution'. China's one-child policy is unsustainable in the short to medium term, whatever you think of long-term sustainability. And the US will be feeling the impact soon enough. This isn't a matter of politics or opinion - if there are far fewer people working and far more non-working people in an age bracket where health care costs are far greater it's a matter of simple math. To ignore it because of politics or opinion is to bury your head in the sand.
Well, one possible new use of unskilled labour might be looking after the elderly, with aging population issues?
Eventually the whole idea of identical mass produced devices will go by the wayside, because it is not ideal. It is the 1800/1900s way of doing things. Ideally, whatever situation you find yourself in, you want the ability to manufacture a custom device for that situation on the spot. e.g. your backpack contains a personal mini-factory.
The custom one-off concept is interesting. I recently customized my Nike shoes. They allow you to modify almost every aspect of the color and materials. Very nice and made in USA, Tennessee I think. And fast too. I received them in about a week. They also send updates every other day as the process continues.
http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/pw/shoes/brk
Look for the customize it icon.
Mmm, nah. That’s not how a sane species rolls.
He does have a valid point. China already addressed the issue by not allowing more than one child per couple. In the US for awhile there was a voluntary reduction of couples having children because women were building careers first and delaying parenting. Of course that all got thrown out the window with a mass illegal anchor babies crisis. The planet is actually overpopulated and we are already experiencing sustainability issues which will likely continue to deteriorate. The sanity of the specie may also be called into question. With all the wars and civil unrest around the world, the population may be drastically and suddenly reduced in a not so pleasant manner.
Nope. That’s where your argument falls to pieces.
Nope. That’s where your argument falls to pieces.
Perhaps that is where your opinion differs.
https://www.motorola.com/us/designs
As an aside too much choice may not be good either. I've actually trimmed back some of my product options and found sales closing much faster.
Motorola is offering much the same fast one-off service, and also "Made in the USA". See Moto Maker:
https://www.motorola.com/us/designs
As an aside too much choice may not be good either. I've actually trimmed back some of my product options and found sales closing much faster.
Sorry but Motorola will be closing that factory in the US. I believe that announcement was made a few weeks ago.
Yes Too many option is costly to the manufacturer, give consumers too many choices and they will never make a decision, just go to a paint store and watch how long it takes people to pick a color to paint their walls. Paint is not a big deal since they mix it on the spot, paint out of the factory is all white.
It was widely published it will be closing the end of this year, but the example is still valid and the service still available for now. Unfortunate IMHO that management made so many options available, from the backplate color to the trim to even features, wallpaper and custom signature. Just too much really.
Well, you said it as fact and the opposite is true, so I’m not sure this is a matter of opinion.
That's the great thing about automation. It frees the manufacturer from having to be located where there are large numbers of available workers. The Chinese government, if it is taking an active stance in Foxconn's rollout of automated assembly lines, must be aware that those assembly lines could instead be located outside its borders. And so a smart decision would be to allow the automation in order to retain the tax revenue and whatever jobs come along with it.
Yeah I would tend to agree, but China never saw it that way. There is a definite break even point of automation over labor and how much you can sell the product for. China always love high complexity product with their low labor costs since labor cost were always less then automation costs especially if you could not use the automation across lots of different products over the years.
GE who was one of the largest producers of light bulbs in the world, looked at moving its bulb production to China, but it did not make sense since they had automated it back in the 80's and 90's and factory runs with little human involvement and if they moved it to china which did not allow automation at the time GE costs of production would have gone up not down and it would have been a margin hit to them to move it.
We also know that Foxconn bought the Amp/Tyco Manufacturing facility in Harrisburg PA and they said they plan to create a state of the art robotic factory there. Foxconn may be putting a large number of those foxbot at that location. They are also in partnership with CMU which is big into robotic automation.
China's issues belong to China.
Foxconn's decisions are not caused by the West
The government gave the population economic freedom but not personal freedom - 1 child / censor this / restrict access to that.
Economic opportunities have kept the population under control but take away economic opportunities & how long before we hear the cries for real democracy.
We have alot of workers in this country that would love to have those jobs if China's works can't step it up.
Well, you said it as fact and the opposite is true, so I’m not sure this is a matter of opinion.
The World has 7.68 billion acres of arable land.
The Earth's population is 7.046 billion.
It takes about 1+ acres of land to sustain 1 adult.
You can do the math.