Google now warns iPhone users when search results contain Adobe Flash

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 48
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,208moderator
    I have to wonder if the reason Flash is still used in such scope is porn.

    I'd say it's a mix of DRM and the encoding tools. Some sites stream movies down and Flash had tools for everything, including custom video player controls. MP4 players didn't always let you skip through a movie until it had loaded.

    I don't know why Apple didn't provide the tools when they launched the iPhone. They just decided to go HTML 5 with no HTML 5 authoring software, no streaming server software, no video formats decided on. The whole licensing issue of MP4 meant a headache with browser support and the open source crowd pushing Ogg Vorbis and Google pushing WebM:

    http://yro-beta.slashdot.org/story/07/12/11/1339251/ogg-vorbis--theora-language-removed-from-html5-spec
    http://rudd-o.com/monopolies-of-the-mind/removal-of-ogg-vorbis-and-theora-from-html5-an-outrageous-disaster

    On top of that, Flash had all sorts of effects for full page video zooming, which was used in movie trailer sites. Because it was controlled entirely by Adobe, they could do whatever features they wanted but HTML 5 had to wait on all the browsers being updated.

    HTML 5 might have been better as a browser plugin that got updated every time the browser opens in the background with the browser itself sticking to basic rendering but it still requires all the browser developers to play along.
  • Reply 22 of 48
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,331member

    Facebook, CNN, Hulu and others... take note. It's 2014. It's time to drop Flash like a bad habit.

  • Reply 23 of 48
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post




    And even then you can go to its wiki, directly download the FLV, and play it with the Flash Projector instead of letting websites see you have Flash installed.

  • Reply 24 of 48
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    No. The death of Adobe Flash should be attributed almost singularly to Apple. Google Android proponents derided the lack of Adobe Flash support on Apple iPhones for years before finally accepting reality. Another indication of Google Android proponents disconnect with reality; support for the supposedly open Google Android and support for proprietary Adobe Flash.
    No the death of flash must be attributed entirely to Adobe turning it into a video player instead of just leaving it as a portable vector graphics/animation format. Flash is going to die of natural causes due to h.265 and 4K/8K UHD video anyway. The vector animation was basically left unmaintained, and when you scale flash from the typical 320x240 sizes they were designed for to 720p, 1080p and 2160p, the gradients start looking very weird, and the precision of where objects are placed gets less and less. Yet, converting a flash animation to h.264/h.265 completely destroys the smooth shapes and gradients.

    "mostly flash" sites rarely are vector animation sites, rather they are sites where the flash bits are used for video/slideshows, both which can be done with less effort using HTML5, which was Steve Job's entire point. Flash is heavily misused. You can convert Adobe Flash/Air projects into apps that use the AIR runtime on iOS if it really needs to be flash. But this is unusable for those who wish to share vector animations. And no, you can not convert flash to SVG, because part of the point of flash is that it's a zlib compressed binary format that has all the music, sound, shapes in one file, and plays back exactly the same on every device. SVG doesn't do any of this. Safari, MSIE and Firefox don't even render the same SVG identical.
  • Reply 25 of 48
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Misa View Post

     
    The vector animation was basically left unmaintained, and when you scale flash from the typical 320x240 sizes they were designed for to 720p, 1080p and 2160p, the gradients start looking very weird, and the precision of where objects are placed gets less and less. Yet, converting a flash animation to h.264/h.265 completely destroys the smooth shapes and gradients.


    Flash export to QuickTime works fine, but you need to know how to configure the settings and it is best to have your frame rate doubled first. Personally I use png sequences because then every frame is pristine.

     

    Importing swf into AfterEffects is another fantastic way to leverage the power and ease of use of Flash to get quality animations into video. So many TV commercials are made this way. 

  • Reply 26 of 48
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,628member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post



    You don't know how I "see" that.

     

    Sorry if I misunderstood. I meant no offence.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post



    The issue I have is with sycophants who mindlessly chant their religious mantra of "open source" but ignore or even refute the fact that a significant portion of (the basis for) Apple OS X is open source.

     

    I'm not a developer, but I'm inclined to agree that making an "open source" argument for OS X because it's built on Unix (and other historic open source projects like Squirrel et al) may be a bit of a stretch. Its origins and what it is now are two entirely different things, no? It's like saying Hip-Hip is Country since that's where those chord structures began.

     

  • Reply 27 of 48
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    Sorry if I misunderstood. I meant no offence.


    I'm not a developer, but I'm inclined to agree that making an "open source" argument for OS X because it's built on Unix (and other historic open source projects like Squirrel et al) may be a bit of a stretch. Its origins and what it is now are two entirely different things, no? It's like saying Hip-Hip is Country since that's where those chord structures began.


    Not only is Apple OS X a direct descendant of NeXTSTEP through the OPENSTEP lineage but Apple OS X is based on the Mach kernel and BSD components. Furthermore, Apple continues to contribute considerable effort to the open source community rather than pretending to be open source when they aren't really.

    OpenCL
    Grand Central Dispatch
  • Reply 28 of 48
    Not only is Apple OS X a direct descendant of NeXTSTEP through the OPENSTEP lineage but Apple OS X is based on the Mach kernel and BSD components. Furthermore, Apple continues to contribute considerable effort to the open source community rather than pretending to be open source when they aren't really.

    OpenCL
    Grand Central Dispatch

    You're not doing a very good job arguing against the “sycophants”. Not even the most sweaty neckbeard of an Android fanboy would dispute that Apple's operating system is based on open source software at some level. What they find value in is the ability to build their own operating system from the Android source code, something that isn't even remotely possible for iOS or OS X.
  • Reply 29 of 48
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,717member

    I have a Galaxy 4 I have been given to connect to my work Exchange server, but I don't have any actual Google searches that would demonstrate how this actually works on an Android.  I'd assume I should see the same message on Android 4.x since it also doesn't support Flash?  Or did we forget that little fact?

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post



    What they find value in is the ability to build their own operating system from the Android source code, something that isn't even remotely possible for iOS or OS X.

     

    Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this.  The Android you could potential build from source is a ghetto.  There's no Samsung bits, there's no Google Play bits, all of the AOSP apps you can build are basically abandonware on the part of Google.

  • Reply 30 of 48
    john.b wrote: »
    Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this.  The Android you could potential build from source is a ghetto.  There's no Samsung bits, there's no Google Play bits, all of the AOSP apps you can build are basically abandonware on the part of Google.

    I don't disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that that freedom is the source of value for developers and custom ROM enthusiasts. Not to mention it's apparently quite easy to make the operating system function normally since every custom build I've ever seen supports the Play Store and Play Services.
  • Reply 31 of 48
    How can I get this warning enabled on my Mac browser where I've un-installed flash for security reasons? It's as much of an annoyance to me on the desktop as it is on mobile platforms.
  • Reply 32 of 48
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by scooper4711 View Post

    How can I get this warning enabled on my Mac browser where I've un-installed flash for security reasons?

     

    If you’ve uninstalled Flash, why does it matter? It can’t attack what it isn’t installed on.

  • Reply 33 of 48
    Flash is dying. This may speed the process up.

    Yet, there still are lots of mostly-Flash websites around. Worse, some new Flash designs are still being created.

    The trouble is, all those Flash developers have known this for quite some time, but
    - Flash is their livelihood, because this is what they know best
    - They trick their clients into accepting heavily Flash-based web site designs, knowing that at some point they will be asked for an entire Flash-free site overhaul, due to declining site visits as Flash dies faster and faster. They believe Flash is their insurance for the near future.

    My take: hopefully those clients will see the light and ask someone else to redo their website.
  • Reply 34 of 48
    jefft2jefft2 Posts: 1member
    I'm a Graphic Designer and have used Adobe Flash since version 2 to create animations for the web, CD's, cartoons, interactive stories and even exported Flash content to uncompressed QuickTime video and had my 9 minute 45 second cartoon animation in the Dusty film festival at the famous Ziegfeld Theater in Manhattan.

    I do not deny that Adobe Flash does not work on IOS devices and has security flaws due to Adobe, but many people do not realize that Adobe Flash was used to create many of the most popular iOS games on the market. Angry Birds and Candy Crush were BOTH created using Adobe Flash, and then ported over and programmed in another language like Objective C, but many ppl do not want to admit this. I have a friend at Comedy Central who uses Adobe Flash EVERY day to illustrate in and create vector animations used on TV on Comedy Central and the Cartoon Network. Flash can export to video which is then used in Final Cut or Avid. You can use Flash vector graphics in Adobe Illustrator or Adobe Photoshop to be used in professional print as well or even use vector from Flash in Maya to be rendered in 3d.

    The fact of the matter is, Flash is not going away. It is a vector based drawing tool. The SWF file format however is becoming obsolete which is Adobe Flash's default export file format. Flash CS6 with a plugin and the latest version of Adobe Flash CC can export to the HTML5 format. Flash CC will take a Flash vector animation programmed in ActionScript and convert it to HTML5 and JavaScript. Designers DO NOT need to have to program their artwork, but simply design visually. They can create vector and raster animations like they have for years and then export the finished animation in not SWF, but HTML5.

    HTML5 is still in its infancy however and is limiting and messy. It requires folders, images, JavaScript files sometimes a minimum of 10 files for just 1 SWF self contained file. HTML5 does not allow (yet) many of the filters the SWF file format does and the files are much larger than SWF files. I did a test in Flash CS6 and exported a complex vector animation from Flash in both SWF and HTML5. The SWF file was 140kb while the HTML5 file was about 10MB and played slowly. HTML5 is not optimized yet and is more demanding on mobile devices.
  • Reply 35 of 48
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,208moderator
    jefft2 wrote: »
    I'm a Graphic Designer and have used Adobe Flash since version 2 to create animations for the web, CD's, cartoons, interactive stories and even exported Flash content to uncompressed QuickTime video and had my 9 minute 45 second cartoon animation in the Dusty film festival at the famous Ziegfeld Theater in Manhattan.

    That reminded me that font rendering used to be one of the important uses for Flash as well as multiple browser uploads. Font support varies between different browsers:

    http://webfonts.info/node/379
    jefft2 wrote: »
    Adobe Flash was used to create many of the most popular iOS games on the market. Angry Birds and Candy Crush were BOTH created using Adobe Flash, and then ported over and programmed in another language like Objective C, but many ppl do not want to admit this. I have a friend at Comedy Central who uses Adobe Flash EVERY day to illustrate in and create vector animations used on TV on Comedy Central and the Cartoon Network. Flash can export to video which is then used in Final Cut or Avid. You can use Flash vector graphics in Adobe Illustrator or Adobe Photoshop to be used in professional print as well or even use vector from Flash in Maya to be rendered in 3d.

    The fact of the matter is, Flash is not going away. It is a vector based drawing tool.

    There will always be a need for a vector animation app. I think it would be good if Adobe added animation features to Illustrator and brought the two together so there's no intermediates between Flash and Illustrator and it would help if they retired Actionscript in favor of Javascript with the same API. After Effects and Unity use Javascript. That could help exporting to the web.

    Some fairly large games have been developed in Flash such as Deponia:

    http://www.flashgamesnexus.com/flash-games/Deponia.php

    This is on the Mac/PC already and is being ported to iOS ( http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a558602/deponia-for-ps3-and-ios-as-daedalic-branches-out-from-pc-gdc-2014.html ). Some Flash games were ported to HTML 5:

    http://chrome.angrybirds.com

    but the developers mentioned there were some hurdles with Javascript and they had to develop their own preloaders like this one for the HTML 5 version of Cut the Rope:

    http://thinkpixellab.com/pxloader/

    There were also issues with drawing loops and idling the game when there were no updates. There's also the issue of content protection. Extracting assets from a Flash file is harder than from HTML 5. I don't think web publishing is right for games at all though, native apps are much better as they save game state better and don't have to download assets on each play.
    jefft2 wrote: »
    HTML5 is still in its infancy however and is limiting and messy. It requires folders, images, JavaScript files sometimes a minimum of 10 files for just 1 SWF self contained file. HTML5 does not allow (yet) many of the filters the SWF file format does and the files are much larger than SWF files. I did a test in Flash CS6 and exported a complex vector animation from Flash in both SWF and HTML5. The SWF file was 140kb while the HTML5 file was about 10MB and played slowly. HTML5 is not optimized yet and is more demanding on mobile devices.

    The Flash plugin has the advantage of being a custom runtime that they can do anything with so any kind of motion tweening, motion blur is easier. With the Canvas element though, there shouldn't need to be a size difference between what's in Flash and what's in HTML 5 but conversions from one to the other will involve flattening some things or exporting multiple objects in full vs being created at run-time.

    When it comes to performance, HTML 5 has the benefit that hardware acceleration support is no longer controlled by Adobe. That was a huge hurdle for Flash on mobile because there are so many devices. There was no way they could ensure that every processor would get full support.

    WebGL has also gone beyond what Flash was capable of without the need for the plugin.

    Flash filled a need for rich content when competing browsers couldn't agree on standards. Youtube wouldn't have existed without Flash. It's clear that it wasn't right for the web long-term though. Search engines couldn't index the content and there's very little segmentation of content so browsers just have to load entire .swf files. It also puts the authoring and playback of rich web content entirely in the hands of one company. HTML 5 makes authoring and playback accessible to everyone.

    HTML 5 is far from perfect but it's the right way to go and it will erode the use of 3rd party plugins the more features it gets. Vector animation software won't go away and Flash for the web only existed because of the slowness of browser development. Browser developers deserve more blame for holding back rich content from the web than Flash does for delivering it.

    Going forward, I don't see web apps taking off. Mobile apps have shown that people want a controlled App Store and offline apps. HTML 5 will gradually fill in the uses for video, advertising, fonts and general online content but it would move faster if there were better tools to deliver it. Flash will focus on offline vector animation, which is much more respectable than the reputation it gets from the Flash plugin.
  • Reply 36 of 48
    freshmakerfreshmaker Posts: 517member

    But...but...Google is evil!  Why would they do something helpful?  /s

  • Reply 37 of 48
    "The company goes on to suggest that developers should eschew proprietary formats like Flash in favor of more widely-implemented standards such as HTML5."

    Funny, are Google going to warn about HTML 5 web games not working too ! Apple allows 3D for iAds only, not web games.
    So is iAds the new Flash for IOS?
  • Reply 38 of 48
    I thought Android doesn't have Flash now as well and Adobe abandoned Flash on mobile devices like 2 years ago. No?
  • Reply 39 of 48
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    My humble take on this, for simple applications HTML5 is a good replacement. For complex applications, the Unreal Engine packs incredible power and can export to most platforms on the market, and it uses C++ and/or blueprints, which makes it incredibly better than Flash, and offers a huge amount of trained, high-performance developers.
  • Reply 40 of 48
    doh123doh123 Posts: 323member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post



    "The company goes on to suggest that developers should eschew proprietary formats like Flash in favor of more widely-implemented standards such as HTML5."



    Funny, are Google going to warn about HTML 5 web games not working too ! Apple allows 3D for iAds only, not web games.

    So is iAds the new Flash for IOS?

    You are talking about WebGL, not HTML5.

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