I saw one recent report that had the 5S as Number 1 and the 5C as number 5 for the world. That's no market failure but it may be in Apple's eyes or in comparison to previous year-old iPhones by internal components.
I hope Apple isn't painting themselves into a corner with this move—especially if they really are going to have the 4.7" as the smallest premium phone.
In my opinion, the actual real or potential iPhone customers (i.e., neither Fandroid trolls nor paid shills) who are so hot for larger screens that they would even consider switching to Android over it are a vanishingly small percentage—a..."rounding error", if you will.
They are extremely loud and extremely annoying on tech-fan sites like this one, but among the general public I doubt if they're numerous enough to be measurable in the actual sales figures, especially if there's any kind of cost premium associated with the larger size.
Personally, I wish they'd go back to the 4:3 3.5" size, mostly because 16:9 is a horrendous aspect ratio for a phone. (Or a tablet. Or a computer. Or basically anything but a TV set.)
You only have to see the enormous sales of 4.7"+ android phones to see that it's not a "rounding error." Many of those people, the ones who didn't leave simply for "free on contract" promotions, really did go for the large screen, for whatever reason. Maybe they have dim eyesight due to age or infirmity, maybe they watch a lot of media on the go, maybe they are like me and are really tall and have big hands. Many of those people, like me, really grew to appreciate that size but find Android not as good as Apple, and would happily come back for a bigger more usable iPhone. You may not personally want a bigger phone, but you aren't the market at large, and fortunately Apple is smart enough not to listen to you.
That said, I do hope they keep a smaller size around for people like you who prefer it. They have two-three sizes of iPad, why not the phone too? And I agree that a 16:9 aspect ratio is too long and thin, but 16:10 works fine and would be ideal.
I saw one recent report that had the 5S as Number 1 and the 5C as number 5 for the world. That's no market failure but it may be in Apple's eyes or in comparison to previous year-old iPhones by internal components.
I can't see numbers for the survey but Apple said 5C sales were lower than expected so I think it's safe to say the 5C would have to be less than 1/3 the sales because higher than that would be fine.
I wonder what will happen this time round with the 5C model. If all they have is the 4.7" metal phone and 4" plastic phone, that's going to suck. They didn't lower the iPhone 5 price last time, they took the iPhone 5 parts and put them in the 5C.
After Samsung introduced the 4.7" S3 after the 4.3" S2, they discovered that a significant portion of their users wanted a smaller device so they made the 4" S3 Mini. There's a breakdown of marketshare here:
Samsung's S series makes up less than half their sales so whatever is in that other category is more popular than the S series and also more popular than every other Android manufacturer combined.
People will just have to get used to 4.7" if that's the way Apple decides to go. While I don't think it will be all that painful a transition, it's clearly not an ideal size for everyone. Maybe they went so large so that they wouldn't have to do a phablet. Maybe they were getting feedback from display manufacturers that it would be cheaper for them to go to that size because they are getting so many orders at that size from other manufacturers and it'll lower their component costs.
If they move the 5C to metal and put the 5S parts inside it, I think that would make a nice phone.
If they move the 5C to metal and put the 5S parts inside it, I think that would make a nice phone.
What's your objection to the plastic case? I think the colours are horrid, but other than that it seemed fine to me. One of my co-workers has the white one which overcomes my involuntarily negative reaction to the C caused by vomiting and allows me to be more objective in my assessment. It actually looks and feels pretty good.
Obviously I'm not saying that you should like it, I'm just curious about why you don't.
Wow, I had no idea this morning that I'd be accused of lying about the size of my trouser pockets.
For heaven's sake TS, in no earthly way is a larger phone unusable. Maybe you wouldn't find it comfortable, and that's completely fine and your prerogative, but it would not be unusable. Not even slightly.
I think the colours are horrid, but other than that it seemed fine to me. One of my co-workers has the white one which overcomes my involuntarily negative reaction to the C caused by vomiting and allows me to be more objective in my assessment. It actually looks and feels pretty good.
Obviously I'm not saying that you should like it, I'm just curious about why you don't.
I don't like the color choices as you've said. The white one is ok but the plastic still doesn't feel good. If they switched the MBP to plastic, it would be such a huge step back. Remember when they switched the white MB to the unibody metal, it was such a great move; it was like when poor people get randomly upgraded to first class tickets.
Some reports said that the 5c felt like ceramic, it so doesn't. When you tap ceramic, it has a density to it that you can feel, the 5c still has that flimsy sound to it. What people were hoping for was the upgrade to first class tickets - the premium iPhone 5 for $100 off. Instead they wrenched out the insides and threw it in a casing that everybody can mass manufacture. It would be like you got an upgrade to first class tickets but the only reason the seat's available is because someone's kid took a sh*t all over it and you now have to sit next to that kid screaming in your ear. It still counts as first class but you're not getting the first class experience.
The main problem is not the iPhone 5c in its own right, it's the fact that it's not a cheaper iPhone 5. The fact the 5s sells so much better is testament to the fact that people don't consider the $100 difference reflects the difference in quality. The 5c is $100 cheaper but easily $200-300 worse in perceived quality. A $550 iPhone shouldn't feel less premium than a $200 iPod.
Wow, I had no idea this morning that I'd be accused of lying about the size of my trouser pockets.
I wonder where I was talking about your personal pants...
For heaven's sake TS, in no earthly way is a larger phone unusable.
So “one-handed” is not an “earthly” way, huh. I guess the last 140 years of telephony have been out of this world! I guess you people want it to come crashing down to Earth, huh.
You only have to see the enormous sales of 4.7"+ android phones to see that it's not a "rounding error." Many of those people, the ones who didn't leave simply for "free on contract" promotions, really did go for the large screen, for whatever reason. Maybe they have dim eyesight due to age or infirmity, maybe they watch a lot of media on the go, maybe they are like me and are really tall and have big hands. Many of those people, like me, really grew to appreciate that size but find Android not as good as Apple, and would happily come back for a bigger more usable iPhone. You may not personally want a bigger phone, but you aren't the market at large, and fortunately Apple is smart enough not to listen to you.
What smaller Android phone option do those people have?
The answer is none. They went with the larger phones because that was the only non-iPhone option that they had.
If people just wanted as big as they can get the Note would be killing all other Android devices and I'm sure stats say that it's not even in the top 5.
What smaller Android phone option do those people have?
The answer is none. They went with the larger phones because that was the only non-iPhone option that they had.
If people just wanted as big as they can get the Note would be killing all other Android devices and I'm sure stats say that it's not even in the top 5.
If you visit the websites for Verizon, ATT, etc you'll find "mini" versions of many of the high-end 4.7"+smartphones. They're available, just not as much in demand as their larger screen brethren.
So “one-handed” is not an “earthly” way, huh. I guess the last 140 years of telephony have been out of this world! I guess you people want it to come crashing down to Earth, huh.
Actually it's only been in the last two decades that a telephone could be used with one hand. Before cordless devices with integrated dial pads it took two hands to place a call. Somehow, incredibly, humanity persevered and survived.
As for the pocket issue, as I mentioned in another thread I did a test drive with a big Samsung -- sitting, walking, pocketing, unpocketing -- and it was (forgive the pun) no big deal. Maybe you wear your pants tighter than I do.
Actually it's only been in the last two decades that a telephone could be used with one hand. Before cordless devices with integrated dial pads it took two hands to place a call.
What phones were you using?
Somehow, incredibly, humanity persevered and survived.
Great argument¡ Because those phones were obviously used while people were out and about, doing other things, and certainly never desired to place a call while a hand was otherwise occupied¡ Come on.
Maybe you wear your pants tighter than I do.
Thanks for continuing to pretend that all pockets are the same size: ghetto-huge.
If you visit the websites for Verizon, ATT, etc you'll find "mini" versions of many of the high-end 4.7"+smartphones. They're available, just not as much in demand as their larger screen brethren.
And not as highly (or ever) advertised. And not as highly discounted. Probably not as technically innovative in comparison to their bigger brethren. And therefore not as highly sought after. And with Android being made specifically for bigger screens likely not as highly usable.
Great argument¡ Because those phones were obviously used while people were out and about, doing other things, and certainly never desired to place a call while a hand was otherwise occupied¡ Come on.
Hey, YOU'RE the one who referenced "140 years of telephony," not me.
I understand your passion for one-handed use. It's a valid preference, but only one among many. Others place higher priority on other considerations, like being able to see more than 1/25 of a web page at a time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Thanks for continuing to pretend that all pockets are the same size: ghetto-huge.
Yeah, nice try. One needn't wear baggie overalls to comfortably pocket a 6" or smaller phone.
Are you a really small person? With really small pockets? Is that why you seem to perceive this so much differently than those of us who have tried it and found it to be just fine?
Hey, YOU'RE the one who referenced "140 years of telephony," not me.
Still waiting for you to post a phone that can’t be used one-handed.
...like being able to see more than 1/25 of a web page at a time.
Yep, that statement certainly isn’t wrong¡
One needn't wear baggie overalls to comfortably pocket a 6" or smaller phone.
You just need to not be a woman or man under 6’ or anyone who doesn’t like carpenter clothing.
Are you a really small person? With really small pockets? Is that why you seem to perceive this so much differently than those of us who have tried it and found it to be just fine?
Pretty clear you’ve not put a 6” screen device in your pocket, nor have “those of us” otherwise.
I wonder where I was talking about your personal pants...
I said I could fit a 6" phone in my pockets, you said liars were lying to make unusable phones seem usable. It was a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So “one-handed” is not an “earthly” way, huh. I guess the last 140 years of telephony have been out of this world! I guess you people want it to come crashing down to Earth, huh.
One handed use is not equal to all use. A phone is not unusable if it's hard to use with one hand. Most people on earth have two hands. If you're unlucky enough to only have one hand then I'm sorry about that, and I hope Apple continue making a phone that's size appropriate for you, but I don't think that's a good reason for Apple not to make any larger devices.
If a phone is usable with two hands then it is usable. Calling it unusable with no additional qualifiers would be a lie. Saying it doesn't fit into trouser pockets would also be a lie. Start living up to your own demands and quit the lying.
Pretty clear you’ve not put a 6” screen device in your pocket
OF COURSE I've put it in my pocket!!! I know it must be hard to imagine, but believe or not there are businesses set up all over the place that have many models of smart phones right out in the open! On display! You can pick them up and everything! You can try putting them in your pocket, walking around with them, sitting down with them in your pocket (even one on each side if you're feeling REALLY adventurous), pulling them out of your pocket while sitting, even putting them IN your pocket while sitting! Risqué, I know, but really, they let you do it!
I didn't bother reading the specs on the device I tried, but Holy Hell, you're RIGHT!. I grabbed some Samsung thing, so I guess that would be only 5.7", NOT six inches! Obviously this has turned my entire world upside down and I no longer have any sense of what is or is not comfortable in my pocket. How could I have so grossly miscalculated?! It doesn't matter that the general meaning of what I was describing remains true, and that pedantic nit-picking about absolute dimensions completely misses the point. I've been so... so... misguided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
nor have “those of us” otherwise.
In just the last few days at least two other people have mentioned, in either this thread or the other one, doing the same pocket test I did. Maybe you overlooked them. Or maybe you're ignoring them. They and I are the "those of us" to which I referred.
Comments
I saw one recent report that had the 5S as Number 1 and the 5C as number 5 for the world. That's no market failure but it may be in Apple's eyes or in comparison to previous year-old iPhones by internal components.
I hope Apple isn't painting themselves into a corner with this move—especially if they really are going to have the 4.7" as the smallest premium phone.
In my opinion, the actual real or potential iPhone customers (i.e., neither Fandroid trolls nor paid shills) who are so hot for larger screens that they would even consider switching to Android over it are a vanishingly small percentage—a..."rounding error", if you will.
They are extremely loud and extremely annoying on tech-fan sites like this one, but among the general public I doubt if they're numerous enough to be measurable in the actual sales figures, especially if there's any kind of cost premium associated with the larger size.
Personally, I wish they'd go back to the 4:3 3.5" size, mostly because 16:9 is a horrendous aspect ratio for a phone. (Or a tablet. Or a computer. Or basically anything but a TV set.)
You only have to see the enormous sales of 4.7"+ android phones to see that it's not a "rounding error." Many of those people, the ones who didn't leave simply for "free on contract" promotions, really did go for the large screen, for whatever reason. Maybe they have dim eyesight due to age or infirmity, maybe they watch a lot of media on the go, maybe they are like me and are really tall and have big hands. Many of those people, like me, really grew to appreciate that size but find Android not as good as Apple, and would happily come back for a bigger more usable iPhone. You may not personally want a bigger phone, but you aren't the market at large, and fortunately Apple is smart enough not to listen to you.
That said, I do hope they keep a smaller size around for people like you who prefer it. They have two-three sizes of iPad, why not the phone too? And I agree that a 16:9 aspect ratio is too long and thin, but 16:10 works fine and would be ideal.
There was a survey here ranking the 5C at 5th:
http://www.counterpointresearch.com/top10may2014
I can't see numbers for the survey but Apple said 5C sales were lower than expected so I think it's safe to say the 5C would have to be less than 1/3 the sales because higher than that would be fine.
I wonder what will happen this time round with the 5C model. If all they have is the 4.7" metal phone and 4" plastic phone, that's going to suck. They didn't lower the iPhone 5 price last time, they took the iPhone 5 parts and put them in the 5C.
After Samsung introduced the 4.7" S3 after the 4.3" S2, they discovered that a significant portion of their users wanted a smaller device so they made the 4" S3 Mini. There's a breakdown of marketshare here:
http://www.localytics.com/blog/2014/samsung-remains-king-of-the-android-market/
Samsung's S series makes up less than half their sales so whatever is in that other category is more popular than the S series and also more popular than every other Android manufacturer combined.
People will just have to get used to 4.7" if that's the way Apple decides to go. While I don't think it will be all that painful a transition, it's clearly not an ideal size for everyone. Maybe they went so large so that they wouldn't have to do a phablet. Maybe they were getting feedback from display manufacturers that it would be cheaper for them to go to that size because they are getting so many orders at that size from other manufacturers and it'll lower their component costs.
If they move the 5C to metal and put the 5S parts inside it, I think that would make a nice phone.
If they move the 5C to metal and put the 5S parts inside it, I think that would make a nice phone.
What's your objection to the plastic case? I think the colours are horrid, but other than that it seemed fine to me. One of my co-workers has the white one which overcomes my involuntarily negative reaction to the C caused by vomiting and allows me to be more objective in my assessment. It actually looks and feels pretty good.
Obviously I'm not saying that you should like it, I'm just curious about why you don't.
To have idiots lie so that they can claim an unusable device is usable? Yeah.
Wow, I had no idea this morning that I'd be accused of lying about the size of my trouser pockets.
For heaven's sake TS, in no earthly way is a larger phone unusable. Maybe you wouldn't find it comfortable, and that's completely fine and your prerogative, but it would not be unusable. Not even slightly.
I don't like the color choices as you've said. The white one is ok but the plastic still doesn't feel good. If they switched the MBP to plastic, it would be such a huge step back. Remember when they switched the white MB to the unibody metal, it was such a great move; it was like when poor people get randomly upgraded to first class tickets.
Some reports said that the 5c felt like ceramic, it so doesn't. When you tap ceramic, it has a density to it that you can feel, the 5c still has that flimsy sound to it. What people were hoping for was the upgrade to first class tickets - the premium iPhone 5 for $100 off. Instead they wrenched out the insides and threw it in a casing that everybody can mass manufacture. It would be like you got an upgrade to first class tickets but the only reason the seat's available is because someone's kid took a sh*t all over it and you now have to sit next to that kid screaming in your ear. It still counts as first class but you're not getting the first class experience.
The main problem is not the iPhone 5c in its own right, it's the fact that it's not a cheaper iPhone 5. The fact the 5s sells so much better is testament to the fact that people don't consider the $100 difference reflects the difference in quality. The 5c is $100 cheaper but easily $200-300 worse in perceived quality. A $550 iPhone shouldn't feel less premium than a $200 iPod.
I wonder where I was talking about your personal pants...
So “one-handed” is not an “earthly” way, huh. I guess the last 140 years of telephony have been out of this world! I guess you people want it to come crashing down to Earth, huh.
What smaller Android phone option do those people have?
The answer is none. They went with the larger phones because that was the only non-iPhone option that they had.
If people just wanted as big as they can get the Note would be killing all other Android devices and I'm sure stats say that it's not even in the top 5.
If you visit the websites for Verizon, ATT, etc you'll find "mini" versions of many of the high-end 4.7"+smartphones. They're available, just not as much in demand as their larger screen brethren.
So “one-handed” is not an “earthly” way, huh. I guess the last 140 years of telephony have been out of this world! I guess you people want it to come crashing down to Earth, huh.
Actually it's only been in the last two decades that a telephone could be used with one hand. Before cordless devices with integrated dial pads it took two hands to place a call. Somehow, incredibly, humanity persevered and survived.
As for the pocket issue, as I mentioned in another thread I did a test drive with a big Samsung -- sitting, walking, pocketing, unpocketing -- and it was (forgive the pun) no big deal. Maybe you wear your pants tighter than I do.
Actually it's only been in the last two decades that a telephone could be used with one hand. Before cordless devices with integrated dial pads it took two hands to place a call.
What phones were you using?
Great argument¡ Because those phones were obviously used while people were out and about, doing other things, and certainly never desired to place a call while a hand was otherwise occupied¡ Come on.
Thanks for continuing to pretend that all pockets are the same size: ghetto-huge.
What phones were you using?
Great argument¡ Because those phones were obviously used while people were out and about, doing other things, and certainly never desired to place a call while a hand was otherwise occupied¡ Come on.
Hey, YOU'RE the one who referenced "140 years of telephony," not me.
I understand your passion for one-handed use. It's a valid preference, but only one among many. Others place higher priority on other considerations, like being able to see more than 1/25 of a web page at a time.
Thanks for continuing to pretend that all pockets are the same size: ghetto-huge.
Yeah, nice try. One needn't wear baggie overalls to comfortably pocket a 6" or smaller phone.
Are you a really small person? With really small pockets? Is that why you seem to perceive this so much differently than those of us who have tried it and found it to be just fine?
Hey, YOU'RE the one who referenced "140 years of telephony," not me.
Still waiting for you to post a phone that can’t be used one-handed.
Yep, that statement certainly isn’t wrong¡
You just need to not be a woman or man under 6’ or anyone who doesn’t like carpenter clothing.
Pretty clear you’ve not put a 6” screen device in your pocket, nor have “those of us” otherwise.
I wonder where I was talking about your personal pants...
I said I could fit a 6" phone in my pockets, you said liars were lying to make unusable phones seem usable. It was a joke.
So “one-handed” is not an “earthly” way, huh. I guess the last 140 years of telephony have been out of this world! I guess you people want it to come crashing down to Earth, huh.
One handed use is not equal to all use. A phone is not unusable if it's hard to use with one hand. Most people on earth have two hands. If you're unlucky enough to only have one hand then I'm sorry about that, and I hope Apple continue making a phone that's size appropriate for you, but I don't think that's a good reason for Apple not to make any larger devices.
If a phone is usable with two hands then it is usable. Calling it unusable with no additional qualifiers would be a lie. Saying it doesn't fit into trouser pockets would also be a lie. Start living up to your own demands and quit the lying.
Pretty clear you’ve not put a 6” screen device in your pocket
OF COURSE I've put it in my pocket!!! I know it must be hard to imagine, but believe or not there are businesses set up all over the place that have many models of smart phones right out in the open! On display! You can pick them up and everything! You can try putting them in your pocket, walking around with them, sitting down with them in your pocket (even one on each side if you're feeling REALLY adventurous), pulling them out of your pocket while sitting, even putting them IN your pocket while sitting! Risqué, I know, but really, they let you do it!
I didn't bother reading the specs on the device I tried, but Holy Hell, you're RIGHT!. I grabbed some Samsung thing, so I guess that would be only 5.7", NOT six inches! Obviously this has turned my entire world upside down and I no longer have any sense of what is or is not comfortable in my pocket. How could I have so grossly miscalculated?! It doesn't matter that the general meaning of what I was describing remains true, and that pedantic nit-picking about absolute dimensions completely misses the point. I've been so... so... misguided.
nor have “those of us” otherwise.
In just the last few days at least two other people have mentioned, in either this thread or the other one, doing the same pocket test I did. Maybe you overlooked them. Or maybe you're ignoring them. They and I are the "those of us" to which I referred.