This is my favorite game of all time. Loved it on the 360 I used to tell myself I'd play it for just a half hour then go to bed...3 hours later I'd finally look at the time and realize I had to get up in 4 hours. Rapture was so immersive and you wanted to see what was going to happen next. That being said, I can't see this being very enjoyable on an iPad or iPhone. Even if you used a controller the screen is too small to really appreciate the grandeur of the vast dystopian city in which it takes place. High fidelity graphics are a must as so much takes place in dimly lit areas.
If tablet gaming is your thing then the new Nvidia Shield Tablet is the way to go, with it's new K1 CPU & GPU, built in HDMI with support for 4K and new it's new companion gamepad you couldn't ask for a better portable game machine.
Surprise, surprise, recommending a non-Apple alternative.
Steam is also releasing their entire catalog for it, I have been playing Doom 3 with the kids in my hospital for the last few days on this platform, really scary but also a lot of fun.
Steam isn't a developer. The Steam catalog is available to Shield through streaming not native ports. Doom 3 isn't an official release, nor is it a Shield exclusive and it requires copying files from the PC version manually.
That's okay, there are still lot's of Steam titles like; Doom 3, HalfLife 2, Portal 1 & 2, etc. that are Nvidia Shield exclusives with a lot more Steam titles on their way to make the platform still worth while, add in 4K through the built in HDMI and there shouldn't be anything that Shield users need to be jealous of.
Surprise, surprise, recommending a non-Apple alternative.
Steam isn't a developer. The Steam catalog is available to Shield through streaming not native ports. Doom 3 isn't an official release, nor is it a Shield exclusive and it requires copying files from the PC version manually.
Wow, 6 games, only 2 exclusive to Shield (not Portal 2 btw) and those two have downloads of 5,000-10,000 in over 2 months.
There's loads for Android users to be jealous of, why do you think the Android guy is green? It was originally colored blue.
The DLCs for the 3rd one return to the original remastered setting:
Only you seem to care that I recommended the Shield. The game list is here; there are many titles that are optimized for the Nvidia K1 chip. I don't know what your problem is with me but you really need to let it go. The only reason why I mentioned the Steam is because you mentioned that Bio Shock isn't available for Android with a stupid frowny face. I'll tell you what, I will stop posting alternative products when you stop hating on every single thing that isn't Apple, deal? I'm getting just as tired reading about how inferior Android, Windows, well like I said everything is too Apple as much as your getting tired of reading my stuff. The only reason why I do it if you haven't caught on is to add a little balance to all of the negativity. If enough people realize that these things aren't as bad as people like you make them out to be maybe we can actually start discussing technology instead of always turning these things into a bitch session. Why would you even mention Android in this thread, your part of the problem as well Marvin.
I'm getting just as tired reading about how inferior Android, Windows, well like I said everything is too Apple as much as your getting tired of reading my stuff. The only reason why I do it if you haven't caught on is to add a little balance to all of the negativity.
As I've explained before, the forum is Appleinsider, it's a forum about Apple. There's no need for what you call balance. What you call balance is putting everything Apple does in a bad light because you have this delusion that everything that isn't Apple is being treated unfairly and you ironically fabricate claims to promote everything that isn't made by Apple in every thread under the guise of objectivity. Given that you are tired of reading about jabs at Apple's competitors on an Apple forum, what are you expecting to happen? That everyone suddenly becomes less of an Apple fan and promotes their competitors just to make you happy? That's not going to happen. I don't really see what outcome you're expecting from promoting Apple's competitors here other than to alienate yourself from the community. People for the most part don't appreciate that aspect of your posts, they overlook it in favor of the rest of your post content.
How do you mean? That the 3rd is better or worse? Or was that a joke about the space time tearing that what's her name does lol.
TLDR
Infinite tries far too hard to be "Cinematic". It took away almost everything that was beloved in the first two games and replaced them with pseudo-hollywood elements, due to the fact that the games industry is so sensitive about not being the movie industry.
The story is unnecessarily convoluted
Plasmids aren't creative or cool
Ammo and resources drop like flies
There is hardly any tension in the game, the atmosphere is simply too bright for it.
I can’t stand “games” that give the player no choice.
It's really a shame that a medium with such potential as gaming is being held back because developers are so insecure about not being "respected" like Movies or Television.
It's really a shame that a medium with such potential as gaming is being held back because developers are so insecure about not being "respected" like Movies or Television.
Never mind that the following is how games are handled these days.
Interesting. The first game used to bring the PC with a dedicated nvidia graphics card to its knees, back in the day. Mobile has come a long way.
Bioshock was released in 2007... I don't remember it being too demanding if you had solid PC, it is running on quite efficient Unreal engine. I played it on Nvidia 8800GT which, coincidently, was also released in 2007. It was good card for it's time, but not top of the line. I'm pretty sure it was running Bioshock with everything maxed out.
Game doesn't look bad in that iOS preview clip - for a mobile port, but it is way toned down from consoles and PC version running on high settings. You can check comparison with Xbox 360 version here:
Maxed PC version was looking sharper than X360. Textures were crisper, higher resolution, better AA. Cannot recall if there was significant difference in lightning.
As I've explained before, the forum is Appleinsider, it's a forum about Apple. There's no need for what you call balance. What you call balance is putting everything Apple does in a bad light because you have this delusion that everything that isn't Apple is being treated unfairly and you ironically fabricate claims to promote everything that isn't made by Apple in every thread under the guise of objectivity. Given that you are tired of reading about jabs at Apple's competitors on an Apple forum, what are you expecting to happen? That everyone suddenly becomes less of an Apple fan and promotes their competitors just to make you happy? That's not going to happen. I don't really see what outcome you're expecting from promoting Apple's competitors here other than to alienate yourself from the community. People for the most part don't appreciate that aspect of your posts, they overlook it in favor of the rest of your post content.
But what would be the point of forum where everyone agrees and pat each others' shoulders? For a good discussion, you need opposing opinions. Different POV can also provide some reality check.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Infinite tries far too hard to be "Cinematic".</span>
Ah, yes, I forgot to mention that. Infinite is simply a movie with buttons. I can’t stand “games” that give the player no choice.
Games can be cinematic without limiting interaction too much, the following game has over 2 hours of cutscenes but the game world is very open:
[VIDEO]
Henry: I gotta take a guy out. It's my contract but I need some help. That's where you two come in.
Joe: Who's the lucky guy?
Henry: Some fat f* from across the river. The guy's been warned but he thinks he's untouchable.
Vito: Huh, and is he?
Henry: Well... somebody tried to take him out once before...
Vito: and?
Henry: Let's just say they slightly underestimated him.
Vito: How much is slightly?
Henry: Fatally.
Joe: That's a fancy way of saying they're dead, right?
[VIDEO]
[VIDEO]
That franchise is owned by 2K like Bioshock. The problem with interactivity is you have to give the player control and that puts them in the director's seat. Trying to guide them through a directed experience creates a conflict between what the game developer wants the player to experience and what the player wants to do. This happens when a player runs into unskippable cutscenes, invisible walls or what are called quicktime events where you hit button sequences to play out a cutscene.
For a game experience to be meaningful to most players, it has to create a challenge to be overcome. This almost always gravitates towards combat. When you think of movies or even real life, how many problems are overcome with combat? With the above game, combat makes sense in that story context but in Bioshock, it doesn't really make much sense in any of the games. Someone coined the phrase ludonarrative dissonance to describe this, which means that the story the game is trying to tell doesn't match with what the player is doing in order for the story to play out.
That's why when the developers do things like the following and have a game character simply run through a scene without any challenges (2:40):
[VIDEO]
a lot of players get bored with it. Ken Levine mentioned this with the scene on the beach where the girl is dancing on the pier and the developers setup a load of things on the beach to explore but you have the option to simply run right to the door and leave and players were doing this.
Interactive challenges are quite limited in variety. Puzzles are often used but players get frustrated when they can't get past them and so in many games this simply reverts to 'this door is locked, go find a key' or 'the power is out, find a way to turn it on (hint, it's the giant switch marked on the map, just waste some time running to it and here's some enemies to slow you down more)'.
A surprising number of games manage to pull off a good mix between cinematic experience and gameplay though and I actually prefer when developers side more with strong narrative. I don't particularly like the interactive challenges presented by games and I play every game on the easiest settings with a few rare exceptions.
I wouldn't like a game with no challenges at all but there is a middle ground between cinema and interactivity that works very well. IMO, that comes from 3rd person game mechanics, good cutscenes spaced out between levels and gameplay that suits the game story. I think Bioshock managed to do a good enough job even though the combat felt a bit off. They even changed the combat style more towards stealth when you played as the female character.
Never mind that the following is how games are handled these days.
Games take longer to make these days though. Games in olden times didn't have the same style. A huge AAA game usually has a large world built up around a given art style and this can be more easily extended once it exists but it takes ages to build. This means that 95% of a game can take 6 years but the last 5% can take 6 months. They can wait the extra 6 months to make 100% or sell the 95% to hit a seasonal sale period and sell the 5% later on. I know that developers do it to milk money out of buyers but it's also to try and fight game resale. On consoles, the DLCs will be the only money developers get from some players because they'll have bought used copies of games.
The struggle for big developers is how to stay in business. DLCs always come across like greed but the studio that made Bioshock is gone now. When the money doesn't keep flowing, people lose their jobs. Whether people like it or not, the DLC and microtransaction model is working to keep businesses afloat. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, the Candy Crush developer made more net profit than the top 5 or so AAA studios combined last year. AAA developers need to figure out a payment model that can approach this without coming across as greedy in order to survive.
But what would be the point of forum where everyone agrees and pat each others' shoulders? For a good discussion, you need opposing opinions. Different POV can also provide some reality check.
I'm with Relic on this one.
That's not what I'm suggesting. Imagine the problem from the point of view of someone on an Android forum:
Android guy: hey what's the best Android phone to get?
Apple guy: try an iPhone, an iPhone is better than any Android phone.
Android guy: I'm having a problem with my Android phone and need help.
Apple guy: try an iPhone, you won't have that problem with an iPhone.
Android guy: Isn't Google a great company?
Apple guy: Apple is better than Google, you should buy an iPhone, they are great.
Android guy: I don't like Apple products, they are overpriced.
Apple guy: I personally know like 50 people who had Android devices and they're all broken. Just sayin'. Get an iPhone.
Do you see what the problem is? It's not about everyone agreeing with everything. People join forms to be with like-minded people, not to be antagonised by people who think otherwise. Relic fabricates statements to make Apple products look bad at every given opportunity. The above statement about playing Doom on the Shield is just the latest. To play Doom on a Shield, you'd need a PC installation to copy the files over, if you have a PC with you, why play it on the Shield? Not to mention the fact that the Tegra K1 Shield isn't out yet:
In the past when the Mac Pro was announced with AMD GPUs, she went on about how great NVidia-exclusive CUDA is. There's nothing impartial about that kind of thing, it's an entirely different agenda.
You can even see this in your Youtube video. The top comment about Bioshock for iOS is:
"Probably would have looked better on Android.?"
and upvoted over 300 times. As is evident from benchmarks, there's only 3 Android devices higher than iOS ones and one is a desktop:
One is the NVidia Shield tablet but that one's not out yet and hardly anyone buys these. As I showed earlier, the games developed just for the 2013 Tegra 4 Shield have under 10,000 downloads in 2 months. NVidia said that they sold several thousand units during their launch month. Apple sells several million iOS devices in a week. Plus the Bioshock game for iOS isn't out yet and new iOS devices are coming next month. The footage that's been made public comes from the developers so unreleased products may play the game differently. It would be better to include the best effects for the latest hardware to help sell it.
I didn't fabricate a damn thing, I arranged everything directly with Nvidia. They in turn put me in touch with a company called StegPC who like many other shops all ready have them in inventory. I don't know when the release date is, I don't care what the release date is. StegPC agreed to supply me with the Shields as more become available and shipped back 3 to Nvidia at their request. Nvidia then in turn sent us 5 Nvidia tablets and 5 of the normal comtroller version, directly to the hospital we are staying in. I am still waiting on delivery of the others. Each unit came preloaded with games, a lot of them. Doom 3 was 1,000 percent part of the package, I don't know anything about side loading PC files because these were directly touched by the staff of Nvidia for the kids, I didn't even request it, they also included gift certificates. I explained all of this in my other story. 2 of the 5 are development machines as stamped on the back, only difference I see so far, though I was led to believe they would have 4GB, turned out to be only 2GB. I really don't care what you believe.
Games take longer to make these days though. Games in olden times didn't have the same style. A huge AAA game usually has a large world built up around a given art style and this can be more easily extended once it exists but it takes ages to build. This means that 95% of a game can take 6 years but the last 5% can take 6 months. They can wait the extra 6 months to make 100% or sell the 95% to hit a seasonal sale period and sell the 5% later on. I know that developers do it to milk money out of buyers but it's also to try and fight game resale. On consoles, the DLCs will be the only money developers get from some players because they’ll have bought used copies of games. The struggle for big developers is how to stay in business. DLCs always come across like greed but the studio that made Bioshock is gone now. When the money doesn't keep flowing, people lose their jobs.
When the marketing budget of AAA games is larger than the development budget, you know that the industry is headed for another collapse like in the ‘80s. And frankly, they deserve it. There are few developers who care about the user’s experience and don’t try to scam them anymore.
Whether people like it or not, the DLC and microtransaction model is working to keep businesses afloat.
“Isn’t it funny–a ship that sinks from the top. Ha...”
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, the Candy Crush developer made more net profit than the top 5 or so AAA studios combined last year.
And this doesn’t immediately scream “PROBLEM” to anyone else? The big studios’ answer to successful games is to buy the smaller studios that made them, destroy the concept, and release a shallow, incomplete, buggy, DLC-packed version (20 versions) of future games. Then they act surprised when people who liked the original games refuse to buy anything from them.
Comments
All 3 BioShock games are really good. If you think you might like it and haven't played it yet, play it!
You’ll find that anything you liked about the first one will be torn to shreds after you play the third.
All of you upset about the iPad and iPhone screen size:
Google this: "Apple TV Airplay"
Surprise, surprise, recommending a non-Apple alternative.
Steam isn't a developer. The Steam catalog is available to Shield through streaming not native ports. Doom 3 isn't an official release, nor is it a Shield exclusive and it requires copying files from the PC version manually.
Lots of titles? Here's the catalog:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=NVIDIA+Tegra+Partners
Wow, 6 games, only 2 exclusive to Shield (not Portal 2 btw) and those two have downloads of 5,000-10,000 in over 2 months.
There's loads for Android users to be jealous of, why do you think the Android guy is green? It was originally colored blue.
The DLCs for the 3rd one return to the original remastered setting:
[VIDEO]
Surprise, surprise, recommending a non-Apple alternative.
Steam isn't a developer. The Steam catalog is available to Shield through streaming not native ports. Doom 3 isn't an official release, nor is it a Shield exclusive and it requires copying files from the PC version manually.
Lots of titles? Here's the catalog:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=NVIDIA+Tegra+Partners
Wow, 6 games, only 2 exclusive to Shield (not Portal 2 btw) and those two have downloads of 5,000-10,000 in over 2 months.
There's loads for Android users to be jealous of, why do you think the Android guy is green? It was originally colored blue.
The DLCs for the 3rd one return to the original remastered setting:
Only you seem to care that I recommended the Shield. The game list is here; there are many titles that are optimized for the Nvidia K1 chip. I don't know what your problem is with me but you really need to let it go. The only reason why I mentioned the Steam is because you mentioned that Bio Shock isn't available for Android with a stupid frowny face. I'll tell you what, I will stop posting alternative products when you stop hating on every single thing that isn't Apple, deal? I'm getting just as tired reading about how inferior Android, Windows, well like I said everything is too Apple as much as your getting tired of reading my stuff. The only reason why I do it if you haven't caught on is to add a little balance to all of the negativity. If enough people realize that these things aren't as bad as people like you make them out to be maybe we can actually start discussing technology instead of always turning these things into a bitch session. Why would you even mention Android in this thread, your part of the problem as well Marvin.
As I've explained before, the forum is Appleinsider, it's a forum about Apple. There's no need for what you call balance. What you call balance is putting everything Apple does in a bad light because you have this delusion that everything that isn't Apple is being treated unfairly and you ironically fabricate claims to promote everything that isn't made by Apple in every thread under the guise of objectivity. Given that you are tired of reading about jabs at Apple's competitors on an Apple forum, what are you expecting to happen? That everyone suddenly becomes less of an Apple fan and promotes their competitors just to make you happy? That's not going to happen. I don't really see what outcome you're expecting from promoting Apple's competitors here other than to alienate yourself from the community. People for the most part don't appreciate that aspect of your posts, they overlook it in favor of the rest of your post content.
“Original remastered”? All I know is that Infinite was a load of pseudoscientific twaddle bookending a worse game than its predecessor.
How do you mean? That the 3rd is better or worse? Or was that a joke about the space time tearing that what's her name does lol.
TLDR
Infinite tries far too hard to be "Cinematic". It took away almost everything that was beloved in the first two games and replaced them with pseudo-hollywood elements, due to the fact that the games industry is so sensitive about not being the movie industry.
The story is unnecessarily convoluted
Plasmids aren't creative or cool
Ammo and resources drop like flies
There is hardly any tension in the game, the atmosphere is simply too bright for it.
Infinite tries far too hard to be "Cinematic".
Ah, yes, I forgot to mention that. Infinite is simply a movie with buttons. I can’t stand “games” that give the player no choice.
I can’t stand “games” that give the player no choice.
It's really a shame that a medium with such potential as gaming is being held back because developers are so insecure about not being "respected" like Movies or Television.
Never mind that the following is how games are handled these days.
A painful reminder of what games are becoming. One of the few times I'm thankful that I still have a backlog to assemble.
Bioshock was released in 2007... I don't remember it being too demanding if you had solid PC, it is running on quite efficient Unreal engine. I played it on Nvidia 8800GT which, coincidently, was also released in 2007. It was good card for it's time, but not top of the line. I'm pretty sure it was running Bioshock with everything maxed out.
Game doesn't look bad in that iOS preview clip - for a mobile port, but it is way toned down from consoles and PC version running on high settings. You can check comparison with Xbox 360 version here:
Maxed PC version was looking sharper than X360. Textures were crisper, higher resolution, better AA. Cannot recall if there was significant difference in lightning.
But what would be the point of forum where everyone agrees and pat each others' shoulders? For a good discussion, you need opposing opinions. Different POV can also provide some reality check.
I'm with Relic on this one.
Games can be cinematic without limiting interaction too much, the following game has over 2 hours of cutscenes but the game world is very open:
[VIDEO]
Henry: I gotta take a guy out. It's my contract but I need some help. That's where you two come in.
Joe: Who's the lucky guy?
Henry: Some fat f* from across the river. The guy's been warned but he thinks he's untouchable.
Vito: Huh, and is he?
Henry: Well... somebody tried to take him out once before...
Vito: and?
Henry: Let's just say they slightly underestimated him.
Vito: How much is slightly?
Henry: Fatally.
Joe: That's a fancy way of saying they're dead, right?
[VIDEO]
[VIDEO]
That franchise is owned by 2K like Bioshock. The problem with interactivity is you have to give the player control and that puts them in the director's seat. Trying to guide them through a directed experience creates a conflict between what the game developer wants the player to experience and what the player wants to do. This happens when a player runs into unskippable cutscenes, invisible walls or what are called quicktime events where you hit button sequences to play out a cutscene.
For a game experience to be meaningful to most players, it has to create a challenge to be overcome. This almost always gravitates towards combat. When you think of movies or even real life, how many problems are overcome with combat? With the above game, combat makes sense in that story context but in Bioshock, it doesn't really make much sense in any of the games. Someone coined the phrase ludonarrative dissonance to describe this, which means that the story the game is trying to tell doesn't match with what the player is doing in order for the story to play out.
That's why when the developers do things like the following and have a game character simply run through a scene without any challenges (2:40):
[VIDEO]
a lot of players get bored with it. Ken Levine mentioned this with the scene on the beach where the girl is dancing on the pier and the developers setup a load of things on the beach to explore but you have the option to simply run right to the door and leave and players were doing this.
Interactive challenges are quite limited in variety. Puzzles are often used but players get frustrated when they can't get past them and so in many games this simply reverts to 'this door is locked, go find a key' or 'the power is out, find a way to turn it on (hint, it's the giant switch marked on the map, just waste some time running to it and here's some enemies to slow you down more)'.
A surprising number of games manage to pull off a good mix between cinematic experience and gameplay though and I actually prefer when developers side more with strong narrative. I don't particularly like the interactive challenges presented by games and I play every game on the easiest settings with a few rare exceptions.
I wouldn't like a game with no challenges at all but there is a middle ground between cinema and interactivity that works very well. IMO, that comes from 3rd person game mechanics, good cutscenes spaced out between levels and gameplay that suits the game story. I think Bioshock managed to do a good enough job even though the combat felt a bit off. They even changed the combat style more towards stealth when you played as the female character.
Games take longer to make these days though. Games in olden times didn't have the same style. A huge AAA game usually has a large world built up around a given art style and this can be more easily extended once it exists but it takes ages to build. This means that 95% of a game can take 6 years but the last 5% can take 6 months. They can wait the extra 6 months to make 100% or sell the 95% to hit a seasonal sale period and sell the 5% later on. I know that developers do it to milk money out of buyers but it's also to try and fight game resale. On consoles, the DLCs will be the only money developers get from some players because they'll have bought used copies of games.
The struggle for big developers is how to stay in business. DLCs always come across like greed but the studio that made Bioshock is gone now. When the money doesn't keep flowing, people lose their jobs. Whether people like it or not, the DLC and microtransaction model is working to keep businesses afloat. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, the Candy Crush developer made more net profit than the top 5 or so AAA studios combined last year. AAA developers need to figure out a payment model that can approach this without coming across as greedy in order to survive.
That's not what I'm suggesting. Imagine the problem from the point of view of someone on an Android forum:
Android guy: hey what's the best Android phone to get?
Apple guy: try an iPhone, an iPhone is better than any Android phone.
Android guy: I'm having a problem with my Android phone and need help.
Apple guy: try an iPhone, you won't have that problem with an iPhone.
Android guy: Isn't Google a great company?
Apple guy: Apple is better than Google, you should buy an iPhone, they are great.
Android guy: I don't like Apple products, they are overpriced.
Apple guy: I personally know like 50 people who had Android devices and they're all broken. Just sayin'. Get an iPhone.
Do you see what the problem is? It's not about everyone agreeing with everything. People join forms to be with like-minded people, not to be antagonised by people who think otherwise. Relic fabricates statements to make Apple products look bad at every given opportunity. The above statement about playing Doom on the Shield is just the latest. To play Doom on a Shield, you'd need a PC installation to copy the files over, if you have a PC with you, why play it on the Shield? Not to mention the fact that the Tegra K1 Shield isn't out yet:
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nvidia-to-launch-shield-tablet-in-europe-at-gamescom/0136434
In the past when the Mac Pro was announced with AMD GPUs, she went on about how great NVidia-exclusive CUDA is. There's nothing impartial about that kind of thing, it's an entirely different agenda.
You can even see this in your Youtube video. The top comment about Bioshock for iOS is:
"Probably would have looked better on Android.?"
and upvoted over 300 times. As is evident from benchmarks, there's only 3 Android devices higher than iOS ones and one is a desktop:
http://gfxbench.com/result.jsp
One is the NVidia Shield tablet but that one's not out yet and hardly anyone buys these. As I showed earlier, the games developed just for the 2013 Tegra 4 Shield have under 10,000 downloads in 2 months. NVidia said that they sold several thousand units during their launch month. Apple sells several million iOS devices in a week. Plus the Bioshock game for iOS isn't out yet and new iOS devices are coming next month. The footage that's been made public comes from the developers so unreleased products may play the game differently. It would be better to include the best effects for the latest hardware to help sell it.
http://www.steg-electronics.ch/de/article/nvidia-shield-tablet-878709.aspx#
When the marketing budget of AAA games is larger than the development budget, you know that the industry is headed for another collapse like in the ‘80s. And frankly, they deserve it. There are few developers who care about the user’s experience and don’t try to scam them anymore.
“Isn’t it funny–a ship that sinks from the top. Ha...”
And this doesn’t immediately scream “PROBLEM” to anyone else? The big studios’ answer to successful games is to buy the smaller studios that made them, destroy the concept, and release a shallow, incomplete, buggy, DLC-packed version (20 versions) of future games. Then they act surprised when people who liked the original games refuse to buy anything from them.