Given the vehemence of your comment, however, I have to wonder if you might be among the first to instigate one of those brawls you decry ... Hmmm?
You're right. Long day (night?). I need to lighten up.
But just imagine the cabin crew trying to serve meals and drinks while being ignored by people busy talking on their phones. Imagine trying to get out of your window seat and having to disturb someone on the phone who gives you one of those "looks" when you want to get to the WC. Imagine waiting at the WC door while hearing the person in the WC is talking on the phone, and the next person behind you is also talking on the phone.
Exaggerated perhaps, but from my last transatlantic flight I still have the nightmare image of everyone around me pulling out their phones and calling just as the plane stopped while at the same time trying to get their carry-on stuff out of the overhead bins. Pure chaos.
I think cell calls should be disallowed, and not for any technical reasons, just because it is rude to talk on a phone in crowded public places.
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
I always try to fly business class and it is usually a very quiet and relaxing environment where passengers generally have more respect and manners than in the cattle car that is coach.
Yes...I don't want to listen to a phone conversation on my flight. I hope this passes. Sometimes I hate cell phones and of this doesn't pass and calls are allowed, this would be one of those times. Your god damn phone call can wait a couple of hours. Before cell phones they always did and we still survived. We will today as well.
Wait, didn't the FAA approve in flight cell phone usage? How does then another federal agency supercede that decision? Especially one I had no idea had jurisdiction over air transportation.
Yes they did, and even said cellular functions should not pose a safety hazard. Their parent agency apparently has some other issues with allowing cell phone use. This article is specifically referring to cellular voice and cellular data usage. I am not sure why a rule is required. If there is no safety issue then there is no need for a rule or regulation.
I never said I wanted cellphone use on planes. What I'm saying is we don't need the government to regulate that. Leave it to the airlines themselves. So we will sit you with the other assholes just because you're an asshole.
It makes absolutely no sense to let the airlines regulate this! The overwhelming majority of people DO NOT WANT IT! Period. BTW - you weren't called an asshole, just the people that would use a cellphone on an airplane . But if you think the airlines should be able to allow such use, then most certainly, hopefully, you would be the one sitting next to them. Then tell us how you feel. Do you really think the airlines would do what's in the best interest of their customers? Just look at the condition of US air service now. It's absolutely pathetic by world standards.
I would rather have the asshole next to me talking on the phone than trying to talk to me....
All this batshit crazy paranoia people have about in-flight phone calls makes no sense when you think about how this service will be monetized, how much the charges will be per minute, and how cheap people are.
No, because the "captains of the world", who are travelling on their company's dime, couldn't care less about how much per minute they're spending. To satisfy their own ego and to convince themselves that they're working all the time, they would constantly be on their phones during a flight. Frankly, I'd rather sit next to a crying baby than to someone on their phone. If they need so badly to communicate with someone, they can send texts or an email.
It's bad enough today when they ask everyone to shut off their phones and the idiot next to me continues talking like the rules don't apply to them. On another flight, the woman next to me hid her still powered-on phone under a blanket so she wouldn't have to shut it off.
If they permit people to use their phones in-flight, there are going to be big fights on planes by people who are annoyed by the loudmouth sitting next to them. There's enough idiotic rage on planes as there is. And if it's up to the airlines, then idiot flyers will be confused and such confusion will lead to arguments. I was on a flight earlier this year where they threatened to arrest some clown who refused to put away his laptop when the plane was preparing for landing.
Wait, didn't the FAA approve in flight cell phone usage?
Not as a phone call device, they didn't. They approved the use of it as an electronic device from gate-to-gate, but you must stay in airplane mode (but WiFi is OK) until you land at your destination. In other words, you don't have to turn these handheld devices off anymore below 10,000 feet. That and WiFi is all it gains you. Not cellular usage. From the article...
"The FAA did not, however, include cellular calling in its rule change, meaning smartphones still need to be in Airplane Mode during all phases of flight."
This is consistent with my experience on every airline I've traveled since the rule changed. I travel a lot and have never experienced an airline that allows you to make cellular calls. The exception is after landing while taxiing. You're not going to have cell coverage for the majority of the flight anyway... the cell towers are too far away. (I noted another poster mentioned microcell usage. I haven't encountered that yet, but I totally believe that's a real thing. That would mean big $$$ for many parties.) However, you could use a voice messaging app if you want to pay for the on-board WiFi.
Airlines want the ability to have in-flight calling because they get a cut of the roaming fees. When you're on a plane, you aren't connected to AT&T or Verizon's network, your phone is connected to a microcell on board the aircraft, which is operated by a third party company the airline contracts with which acts as an in-flight roaming provider. That third party charges roaming fees to connect you to your cellular provider, and the airlines get a portion of that revenue.
Look at how much it costs to make phone calls aboard airplanes in Europe or the rest of the world - $2-4/minute. That means a 5 hour phone call would cost the person between $600 and $1,200!!
All this batshit crazy paranoia people have about in-flight phone calls makes no sense when you think about how this service will be monetized, how much the charges will be per minute, and how cheap people are.
Bingo, with regard to actual cell calls.
But people will pay the $9.95 for a GoGo mobile all-day pass for the WiFi and then chat it up using Skype or any of a dozen other apps that utilize VOIP. That's assuming the connection is swift enough (and with low-latency) to get decent voice quality. I've never tried, so I don't know.
You're right. Long day (night?). I need to lighten up.
But just imagine the cabin crew trying to serve meals and drinks while being ignored by people busy talking on their phones. Imagine trying to get out of your window seat and having to disturb someone on the phone who gives you one of those "looks" when you want to get to the WC. Imagine waiting at the WC door while hearing the person in the WC is talking on the phone, and the next person behind you is also talking on the phone.
Exaggerated perhaps, but from my last transatlantic flight I still have the nightmare image of everyone around me pulling out their phones and calling just as the plane stopped while at the same time trying to get their carry-on stuff out of the overhead bins. Pure chaos.
Another poster is right. The airline, wanting to add additional revenue, is going to charge a pretty penny for the use of their microcell (because the cell towers are too far away.)
The scene that so many of us here are imagining is never going to happen. It would be waaaay too expensive for so many people to engage in throughout the flight. Kind of like the $6 beers. There used to be a lot more drinking on airplanes when the price was half that. Same thing will happen with cell calls.
Delighted to hear this. 1. I don't want to have to sit to next to someone talking on the phone. 2. I don't want my head radiated by their mobile phone, just 30cm from my head (which is still very close) ... and not even be able to move away to a safe distance (like 2 or 3m, by the inverse square law).
Like some others, I think the only thing that makes sense is that the airlines are anxious to charge their customers additional fees to let them gab loudly or fees to allow them to be in a quieter section. Irritating... yet again!
I live in NYC and take buses and subways regularly. Believe me, when some old bitty starts to yell into her cell phone so her presumably deaf friend on the other end (and the whole bus) can hear every detail about Jeffrey's prostate surgery that went horribly wrong... I say something!
Yes, I make a stand for the rights of the riding public. Old Bitty will hear from me that all of us have cell phones in our pockets but on a bus we use them for only a short time and at a quiet volume, and only for important calls that can't wait.
What I find funny is this, everyone wants to believe the reason you can not use electronics on the plane is there is this belief they will some how interfere with the electronic flight controls of the plane. This is not true and has not been true for a long time, there is not case of a planes systems being interfered with buy consumer electronics, there is some pilots belief it has happen but no documented case of it actually happening.
A quick history lesson, it has been illegal to interfere with any radio or electronic transmission since the 1930's it was not until the 1970's when the FCC put requirement in place about how much a product can radiate without interfering with other transmitting equipment. This actually came about due to a grocery store which had installed a new all electronic cash register systems which happen to be on the approach path of an airport. The airport began having issues with communicating with approaching planes and it was found that the cash register systems was the issue. The RF coming off the system was enough to interfere with the radio communications with the plane. Since then all electronics must be tested to ensure they do not radiate and interfere with other electronic devices.
Also electronic are require to be immune from being interfere with, so not only can not radiate and interfere with other electronic devices, they much be hardened to the point which they must operate normally with in an environment which has RF signal around.
Since all electronics can not radiate and must be immune, and this also go for systems on an airplane, there is no engineering or technical reason why you can not use your electronics on a plane. The only reason and it was the one the DOT cited is passenger safety.
For year I use to hear people in the airline industry say it will interfere with the plan as the primary and only reason not to use personal electronics. However, ever once in a while someone would tell me is has nothing to do with interference and was more about people's safety and it was airline rules not the FCC or DOT which made the real restriction. They said they did not want people paying attention to the electronics but to what was going on around them in the plane during takeoff and landing when something could go wrong. The airlines are responsible for your safety therefore they want you listening to them and not playing with your electronics.
As others pointed out it is good that people will not be allowed to talk during flight since most people lack the personal etiquette to not disturb others around them.
But people will pay the $9.95 for a GoGo mobile all-day pass for the WiFi and then chat it up using Skype or any of a dozen other apps that utilize VOIP. That's assuming the connection is swift enough (and with low-latency) to get decent voice quality. I've never tried, so I don't know.
Thompson
I find it bizarre that this thread is all about having to listen to people talk on the phone. You (not you, thompr, the general you) realize that 99% of what people use their cell phones for is for internet access, right? This issue isn't about whether people can talk on the phone, it's whether they can use their phones as they normally use them--as internet devices. Many airplanes for many years have in seat phones that you could use to talk to people with just a swipe of a credit card. No one used them, or not enough that it was a recurring problem.
Besides, it's not like you can get any cell phone reception in flight anyway, so as someone else pointed out, it's about whether the airline can sell you data services. They already can via WiFi, so this is all a non-issue. FAA, get out of the way and let the airlines do what they are going to do. Good airlines (like Jetblue and maybe Southwest and Virgin?) will offer relatively consumer-friendly services and will win business from the obnoxious carriers.
I find it bizarre that this thread is all about having to listen to people talk on the phone. You (not you, thompr, the general you) realize that 99% of what people use their cell phones for is for internet access, right? This issue isn't about whether people can talk on the phone, it's whether they can use their phones as they normally use them--as internet devices. Many airplanes for many years have in seat phones that you could use to talk to people with just a swipe of a credit card. No one used them, or not enough that it was a recurring problem.
Besides, it's not like you can get any cell phone reception in flight anyway, so as someone else pointed out, it's about whether the airline can sell you data services. They already can via WiFi, so this is all a non-issue. FAA, get out of the way and let the airlines do what they are going to do. Good airlines (like Jetblue and maybe Southwest and Virgin?) will offer relatively consumer-friendly services and will win business from the obnoxious carriers.
Yes, I agree with you. This is much ado about nothing.
But the other poster was right: if an airline puts microcells on their airplanes, attached to their internet link, then yes you can get cell service in the air. But they won't provide it for free. It will come with a surcharge that gets automatically added onto your wireless carrier bill. If the surcharge is high enough - and given the cost of airplane beers, I suspect it will be - then we will be right back to your observation: people will not be using their cell phones just to gib-gab. If they really wanted to do that so much, they would pay the $9.95 for WiFi service and then use Skype, or iMessage, or any other VOIP solution. But nobody is doing that either.
Comments
Given the vehemence of your comment, however, I have to wonder if you might be among the first to instigate one of those brawls you decry ... Hmmm?
You're right. Long day (night?). I need to lighten up.
But just imagine the cabin crew trying to serve meals and drinks while being ignored by people busy talking on their phones. Imagine trying to get out of your window seat and having to disturb someone on the phone who gives you one of those "looks" when you want to get to the WC. Imagine waiting at the WC door while hearing the person in the WC is talking on the phone, and the next person behind you is also talking on the phone.
Exaggerated perhaps, but from my last transatlantic flight I still have the nightmare image of everyone around me pulling out their phones and calling just as the plane stopped while at the same time trying to get their carry-on stuff out of the overhead bins. Pure chaos.
Yes...I don't want to listen to a phone conversation on my flight. I hope this passes. Sometimes I hate cell phones and of this doesn't pass and calls are allowed, this would be one of those times. Your god damn phone call can wait a couple of hours. Before cell phones they always did and we still survived. We will today as well.
Yes they did, and even said cellular functions should not pose a safety hazard. Their parent agency apparently has some other issues with allowing cell phone use. This article is specifically referring to cellular voice and cellular data usage. I am not sure why a rule is required. If there is no safety issue then there is no need for a rule or regulation.
I would rather have the asshole next to me talking on the phone than trying to talk to me....
All this batshit crazy paranoia people have about in-flight phone calls makes no sense when you think about how this service will be monetized, how much the charges will be per minute, and how cheap people are.
No, because the "captains of the world", who are travelling on their company's dime, couldn't care less about how much per minute they're spending. To satisfy their own ego and to convince themselves that they're working all the time, they would constantly be on their phones during a flight. Frankly, I'd rather sit next to a crying baby than to someone on their phone. If they need so badly to communicate with someone, they can send texts or an email.
It's bad enough today when they ask everyone to shut off their phones and the idiot next to me continues talking like the rules don't apply to them. On another flight, the woman next to me hid her still powered-on phone under a blanket so she wouldn't have to shut it off.
If they permit people to use their phones in-flight, there are going to be big fights on planes by people who are annoyed by the loudmouth sitting next to them. There's enough idiotic rage on planes as there is. And if it's up to the airlines, then idiot flyers will be confused and such confusion will lead to arguments. I was on a flight earlier this year where they threatened to arrest some clown who refused to put away his laptop when the plane was preparing for landing.
Protecting the public from rude cellphone users is the FAA's job. /s
It becomes’s the FAA’s job when another passenger has had enough, grabs the phone out of the rude loudmouth’s hands, and starts beating them with it.
It becomes’s the FAA’s job when another passenger has had enough, grabs the phone out of the rude loudmouth’s hands, and starts beating them with it.
Sounds more like the air marshall’s job, and then the job of the courts to punish someone so stupid as to do this.
You can easily switch train cars. You can't switch plane cabins.
Easily remedied with phone booths.
Wait, didn't the FAA approve in flight cell phone usage?
Not as a phone call device, they didn't. They approved the use of it as an electronic device from gate-to-gate, but you must stay in airplane mode (but WiFi is OK) until you land at your destination. In other words, you don't have to turn these handheld devices off anymore below 10,000 feet. That and WiFi is all it gains you. Not cellular usage. From the article...
"The FAA did not, however, include cellular calling in its rule change, meaning smartphones still need to be in Airplane Mode during all phases of flight."
This is consistent with my experience on every airline I've traveled since the rule changed. I travel a lot and have never experienced an airline that allows you to make cellular calls. The exception is after landing while taxiing. You're not going to have cell coverage for the majority of the flight anyway... the cell towers are too far away. (I noted another poster mentioned microcell usage. I haven't encountered that yet, but I totally believe that's a real thing. That would mean big $$$ for many parties.) However, you could use a voice messaging app if you want to pay for the on-board WiFi.
Thompson
Thing is, that would never happen.
Airlines want the ability to have in-flight calling because they get a cut of the roaming fees. When you're on a plane, you aren't connected to AT&T or Verizon's network, your phone is connected to a microcell on board the aircraft, which is operated by a third party company the airline contracts with which acts as an in-flight roaming provider. That third party charges roaming fees to connect you to your cellular provider, and the airlines get a portion of that revenue.
Look at how much it costs to make phone calls aboard airplanes in Europe or the rest of the world - $2-4/minute. That means a 5 hour phone call would cost the person between $600 and $1,200!!
All this batshit crazy paranoia people have about in-flight phone calls makes no sense when you think about how this service will be monetized, how much the charges will be per minute, and how cheap people are.
Bingo, with regard to actual cell calls.
But people will pay the $9.95 for a GoGo mobile all-day pass for the WiFi and then chat it up using Skype or any of a dozen other apps that utilize VOIP. That's assuming the connection is swift enough (and with low-latency) to get decent voice quality. I've never tried, so I don't know.
Thompson
You're right. Long day (night?). I need to lighten up.
But just imagine the cabin crew trying to serve meals and drinks while being ignored by people busy talking on their phones. Imagine trying to get out of your window seat and having to disturb someone on the phone who gives you one of those "looks" when you want to get to the WC. Imagine waiting at the WC door while hearing the person in the WC is talking on the phone, and the next person behind you is also talking on the phone.
Exaggerated perhaps, but from my last transatlantic flight I still have the nightmare image of everyone around me pulling out their phones and calling just as the plane stopped while at the same time trying to get their carry-on stuff out of the overhead bins. Pure chaos.
Another poster is right. The airline, wanting to add additional revenue, is going to charge a pretty penny for the use of their microcell (because the cell towers are too far away.)
The scene that so many of us here are imagining is never going to happen. It would be waaaay too expensive for so many people to engage in throughout the flight. Kind of like the $6 beers. There used to be a lot more drinking on airplanes when the price was half that. Same thing will happen with cell calls.
1. I don't want to have to sit to next to someone talking on the phone.
2. I don't want my head radiated by their mobile phone, just 30cm from my head (which is still very close) ... and not even be able to move away to a safe distance (like 2 or 3m, by the inverse square law).
What I find funny is this, everyone wants to believe the reason you can not use electronics on the plane is there is this belief they will some how interfere with the electronic flight controls of the plane. This is not true and has not been true for a long time, there is not case of a planes systems being interfered with buy consumer electronics, there is some pilots belief it has happen but no documented case of it actually happening.
A quick history lesson, it has been illegal to interfere with any radio or electronic transmission since the 1930's it was not until the 1970's when the FCC put requirement in place about how much a product can radiate without interfering with other transmitting equipment. This actually came about due to a grocery store which had installed a new all electronic cash register systems which happen to be on the approach path of an airport. The airport began having issues with communicating with approaching planes and it was found that the cash register systems was the issue. The RF coming off the system was enough to interfere with the radio communications with the plane. Since then all electronics must be tested to ensure they do not radiate and interfere with other electronic devices.
Also electronic are require to be immune from being interfere with, so not only can not radiate and interfere with other electronic devices, they much be hardened to the point which they must operate normally with in an environment which has RF signal around.
Since all electronics can not radiate and must be immune, and this also go for systems on an airplane, there is no engineering or technical reason why you can not use your electronics on a plane. The only reason and it was the one the DOT cited is passenger safety.
For year I use to hear people in the airline industry say it will interfere with the plan as the primary and only reason not to use personal electronics. However, ever once in a while someone would tell me is has nothing to do with interference and was more about people's safety and it was airline rules not the FCC or DOT which made the real restriction. They said they did not want people paying attention to the electronics but to what was going on around them in the plane during takeoff and landing when something could go wrong. The airlines are responsible for your safety therefore they want you listening to them and not playing with your electronics.
As others pointed out it is good that people will not be allowed to talk during flight since most people lack the personal etiquette to not disturb others around them.
Bingo, with regard to actual cell calls.
But people will pay the $9.95 for a GoGo mobile all-day pass for the WiFi and then chat it up using Skype or any of a dozen other apps that utilize VOIP. That's assuming the connection is swift enough (and with low-latency) to get decent voice quality. I've never tried, so I don't know.
Thompson
I find it bizarre that this thread is all about having to listen to people talk on the phone. You (not you, thompr, the general you) realize that 99% of what people use their cell phones for is for internet access, right? This issue isn't about whether people can talk on the phone, it's whether they can use their phones as they normally use them--as internet devices. Many airplanes for many years have in seat phones that you could use to talk to people with just a swipe of a credit card. No one used them, or not enough that it was a recurring problem.
Besides, it's not like you can get any cell phone reception in flight anyway, so as someone else pointed out, it's about whether the airline can sell you data services. They already can via WiFi, so this is all a non-issue. FAA, get out of the way and let the airlines do what they are going to do. Good airlines (like Jetblue and maybe Southwest and Virgin?) will offer relatively consumer-friendly services and will win business from the obnoxious carriers.
I actually am surprised when I see people on airliners that aren't wearing noise cancelling headphones.
I find it bizarre that this thread is all about having to listen to people talk on the phone. You (not you, thompr, the general you) realize that 99% of what people use their cell phones for is for internet access, right? This issue isn't about whether people can talk on the phone, it's whether they can use their phones as they normally use them--as internet devices. Many airplanes for many years have in seat phones that you could use to talk to people with just a swipe of a credit card. No one used them, or not enough that it was a recurring problem.
Besides, it's not like you can get any cell phone reception in flight anyway, so as someone else pointed out, it's about whether the airline can sell you data services. They already can via WiFi, so this is all a non-issue. FAA, get out of the way and let the airlines do what they are going to do. Good airlines (like Jetblue and maybe Southwest and Virgin?) will offer relatively consumer-friendly services and will win business from the obnoxious carriers.
Yes, I agree with you. This is much ado about nothing.
But the other poster was right: if an airline puts microcells on their airplanes, attached to their internet link, then yes you can get cell service in the air. But they won't provide it for free. It will come with a surcharge that gets automatically added onto your wireless carrier bill. If the surcharge is high enough - and given the cost of airplane beers, I suspect it will be - then we will be right back to your observation: people will not be using their cell phones just to gib-gab. If they really wanted to do that so much, they would pay the $9.95 for WiFi service and then use Skype, or iMessage, or any other VOIP solution. But nobody is doing that either.
Thompson