While 91% of Apple users run iOS 7, five different versions of Android hold 10%+ share

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  • Reply 41 of 184
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    gtr wrote: »
    Let him lie.

    It may just be all he has left in life.

    (>_<)

    A short primer on the proper usage of lay vs. lie. . .
    http://www.chompchomp.com/handouts/irregularrules02.pdf

    No doubt that's what you meant as it's pretty clear what I had to say was 100% correct, and even verified as such by Eric.
  • Reply 42 of 184
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    This type of article has been written for years and years, month after month, at one publication or another. People got the point.
  • Reply 43 of 184
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,498member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Devices running Google Android. That would include those from Samsung. And HTC. And Motorola. And etc. It would NOT include Amazon or Nokia (Microsoft) or Xiaomi or various knock-off's with forked OS's.

    Ah, ok. So non-forked SW Android; nothing to do with HW manufacturer. Tnx
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I look at all this and think what a nightmare for developers and customers alike.

    Don't know about devs, but customers will most likely just look at the monthly price for the phone plan and the screen size of a variety of models. But we're techies, and see things differently.
  • Reply 44 of 184
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    Ok, wait a second there. There is a very specific reason why this becomes relevant. The market share argument is invalid because Apple give a flying f&#@ about market share. Their business model doesn't depend on market share, and that is why that argument is invalid. Now, the "inverse" as you call it being fragmentation *IS* important, that being to developers and customers. I will prove this with a very specific argument that any developer can understand: The Browser Wars of the mid-2000s.

    For a long time you had two major players in the Browser Wars: Internet Explorer and Netscape/Mozilla. Mozilla had the courage to break off their browser to become Firefox, and part of that was that it was going to be standards-based. This was all well and good, but it was hell on developers. Developers had to do hacks and quirks, css-differing rules, and server-side conditionals to try to get the one page they were working on to work in both environments. It became so difficult that many decided to just focus on either Internet Explorer or Firefox, and it hurt the web for years.

    It is this cautionary tale that is happening to Android right now. Since carriers can lock the users into a particular version, you have API fragmentation. The fragmentation makes it incredibly difficult for developers to try to target anyone in the Android universe. Also, since some manufacturers can create a version of Android with their own specific things embedded into it, that just adds to the noise. All of those concerns are what make Android an inferior development platform, even though Google says that it is "Open". iOS may be a closed eco-system, but it is consistent, and it makes sure that you can be kept up to date easily; making the lives of developers that much easier.

    Is multiple closed OSs the answer? Will the market sustain 4,5,6 different ecosystems?
  • Reply 45 of 184
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    You're right... 85% of Android users can take advantage of the features across Android 4.X dating back to 2011.

    So to be safe... a developer should target Android 4.0 to reach the most users. You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

    But if there was some amazing feature introduced in Android 4.4.... the audience is MUCH smaller since not many people have Android 4.4

    And that's the struggle. Android has a lot of users... but not many of them can use the latest features in the current version of Android. Developers are forced to look back instead of moving forward.

    And it will only get worse. Google announced 5,000 new APIs with Android L. Great, right?

    But if a developer wanted to use those APIs in their apps... the devices would need Android L

    Looking back at history... it takes YEARS for any particular version of Android to reach a meaningful percentage of Android users.

    Developers will ignore those 5,000 new APIs in Android L and continue to support Android 4.X instead.

    It might take until 2016 or 2017 until enough phones can support the features of Android L and above.

    Apple leaves out features to older iDevices all the time even if they upgrade to the current version of iOS.
  • Reply 46 of 184
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Apple leaves out features to older iDevices all the time even if they upgrade to the current version of iOS.

    Features dependent on HW in some way, not APIs.
  • Reply 47 of 184
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    Is multiple closed OSs the answer? Will the market sustain 4,5,6 different ecosystems?



    Let's see here.... We have the Mac OS X, Windows 8.1, and the many distributions of Linux out there... So yeah, I think that the world can handle different ecosystems. The discussion about Android though, is that it is one distribution that has fragmented APIs with a poor upgrading policy. In reality, it is that policy that is causing the problem, not the API fragmentation.

     

    So, for example, if iOS could only be upgraded when new devices came out, we would be having this same discussion about iOS; because the number of users out there using out of date software would be huge; instead it is only 9% of the installed iOS base. Android has an issue on their hands when over 70% are not on the latest OS from them; mainly because carriers do not want them to upgrade. Thus, the policy problem on their hands.

  • Reply 48 of 184
    I'm sure there are lots of benefits to Android's fragmentation. And I'm sure the geniuses on Wall Street will get right on it and tell us all about them. In related new, Samsung releases another ad showing how bad it is that Apple has so much consistency in their iOS deployment.
  • Reply 49 of 184
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    In which case you have fragmentation because some devices (Amazon, Chinese vendors) don't connect to Google Play, and others aren't updated even though they conceivably could be.  Which is just another dimension of fragmentation introduced in an effort to roll out security updates across a fragmented core OS that cannot be updated on many devices for either device compatibility reasons or device vendor negligence (they don;t work to offer the updates, preferring their customers to be forced to buy a new handset or tablet).  

    So is "Google's Android" and AOSP the same thing? Does Google have any control over what Amazon or Chinese vendors do with open source Android? What devices from members of the open handset alliance don't receive updates via the Google Play store?
  • Reply 50 of 184
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    sog35 wrote: »

    I'm sorry.

    Google can do all the bandaids they want.  The fact is Androids framentation makes it a much bigger security threat.


    Less secure than un-jailbroken iOS? I fully agree. That does not mean Google Android is therefore dangerously insecure.
  • Reply 51 of 184

    Who gives a damn about their share. Androiders should be far more concerned about stuff like this: http://nyti.ms/1oZdnPE

  • Reply 52 of 184
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Features dependent on HW in some way, not APIs.

    Does the reason really matter? A missing feature is a missing feature no matter how you look at it.
  • Reply 53 of 184
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    I did a simular thing except i bought an iPhone 5S.  I'm also with Tmobile.

     

    I paid $300 more for my phone but over 2 years that's only $12.50 a month.

    Next year I'll be able to sell my 5S for about $200.

    So it comes out to $4.17 more per month I paid than you.

     

    To me the $4 extra I pay a month for an iPhone is well worth it.


     

    Yep, you're ahead of the curve just since you bought your phone outright. I don't understand why more folks don't. You really do end up with many more options to keep more of your own money.

     

    That said, no way I'd pay $4/month to lose Tasker ;)

  • Reply 54 of 184
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Apple could see benefits from a "Google Play Services" approach to speed updates to core services rather than waiting until an OS update is finalized.

     

    Do tell us of an instance in the past two to three years where that would have been beneficial for iOS.

  • Reply 55 of 184
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member

    Let's see here.... We have the Mac OS X, Windows 8.1, and the many distributions of Linux out there...

    Except that for the most part the makers of Win and Linux aren't selling hardware. Discussing a problem without discussing a solution is pointless.
  • Reply 56 of 184
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Does the reason really matter? A missing feature is a missing feature no matter how you look at it.

    Absolutely!
  • Reply 57 of 184
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Less secure than un-jailbroken iOS? I fully agree. That does not mean Google Android is therefore dangerously insecure.


     

     

    I was reading today about a very big security hack on Android.

     

    http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~zhiyunq/publications.html

     

    First topic in the publication list:

     

    Peeking into Your App without Actually Seeing it: UI State Inference and Novel Android Attacks [PDF]

     

    One thing he mentions in the article is that in theory this hack could be done on Windows, OS X and iOS too although unproven because for one thing you need to download a malware app first. He has only demonstrated it on Android, but it can steal anything that is in the UI. So when you log in to online banking, for example, it can grab the password, etc. Basically anything that is on the screen can be stolen.

  • Reply 58 of 184
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    Who gives a damn about their share. Androiders should be far more concerned about stuff like this: http://nyti.ms/1oZdnPE

    Sounds eerily similar to a piece of iOS ransomware that was reported to target Australian iOS users and another one that used the same "FBI Porn" warning to go after Mac owners too. I'm guessing it's probably a related group responsible for this supposed Android version and like with iOS and OSX requires the user to actively install it.
    http://venturebeat.com/2013/07/15/fbi-ransomware-trojan-now-tricking-mac-users-into-paying-300-fines/
    http://www.tuaw.com/2014/05/27/ios-and-mac-users-in-australia-locked-out-of-their-devices-via/?ncid=rss_truncated
  • Reply 59 of 184
    nhtnht Posts: 4,496member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Which is another way of saying these newer APIs can't be used without a lot of retooling.

     

    No, he's saying the exact opposite.  I agree with him...fragmentation today under 4.x is a lot better than it was 2.x.  Targeting for Jelly Bean 4.2 captures the majority of the US market and still leaves you with a fairly recent API stack to work with.

     

    Apps under 5.x may require some retooling but probably not much more than iOS 7 did.

  • Reply 60 of 184
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    mstone wrote: »
    I was reading today about a very big security hack on Android.

    http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~zhiyunq/publications.html

    First topic in the publication list:

    Peeking into Your App without Actually Seeing it: UI State Inference and Novel Android Attacks [PDF]

    One thing he mentions in the article is that in theory this hack could be done on Windows, OS X and iOS too although unproven because for one thing you need to download a malware app first. He has only demonstrated it on Android, but it can steal anything that is in the UI. So when you log in to online banking, for example, it can grab the password, etc. Basically anything that is on the screen can be stolen.

    There's a lot of bad guys out there trying their best to find their way in to our mobile devices. So far mobile OS's have been relatively secure.
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