LA Unified School District suspends iPad deal, faces accusations that officials had close ties with

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  • Reply 61 of 86
    How much do you want to bet that Google/Microsoft/Samsung/etc are behind this. I would look into who has recently funded the teachers union.
  • Reply 62 of 86
    [CONTENTEMBED=/t/181976/la-unified-school-district-suspends-ipad-deal-faces-accusations-that-officials-had-close-ties-with-apple/40#post_2584600 layout=inline]<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Quote:</span>
    [/CONTENTEMBED]
    It's not quite as simple as that ...


    In California, public schools are funded, mainly, by property taxes paid by home owners, and federal tax redistributions based on "butts in the chairs".


    In many poorer districts the property tax base is low because a lot of people rent apartments, live in trailer parks, etc.


    Add to that the collapse of the housing market where districts are receiving less property tax income because of unoccupied houses (some abandoned) and lower assessment values,


    Then there's things like this: I don't know if it's still true (but suspect it is) -- when we lived in Chicagland, it was common practice for Cook County homeowners to challenge their property taxes and have an assessor investigate to lower the taxes for a fee (bribe).


    We bought our first home for $18,000 (1968) in McHenry County -- but paid more property taxes than friends with $80,000 houses in Cook County.
    So what are you trying to say?


    I was replying to your:

    Apple can choose not to sell iPads to anyone "for any reason and at any time", but they have an economic incentive to sell to everyone. Public schools, on the other hand, profits via taxation (you can't choose not to give them money), thus have no such incentive.

    What I was trying to get across was that Public schools are not all the same nor do they have equal access to the tax base.

    Consider these:

    Upper middle-class suburban -- fewer students per home, yet they pay high property taxes on medium-high priced houses.

    Lower middle-class urban - more students per family, yet they pay little or no property taxes because they live in apartments.

    In the first case, the school district has lots of money to provide for fewer students *

    In the second case, the school district has less money to provide for more students.

    * I grew up in Pasadena, CA -- there were 18 homes on our block with 9 school children in 5 of the houses. That means that 13 of the families were helping to pay for the cost of education of children of 5 families -- with no direct benefit to themselves.

    I am no fan of student redistribution (bussing) or income (tax) redistribution -- these have been unsuccessful.


    I do believe that we need to do something to improve our education system -- but throwing money or technology at the problem is not a sufficient solution.
  • Reply 63 of 86
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    Many kids today are a bunch of illiterate, little monkeys. Obnoxious, ignorant creatures who lack basic fundamental skills in many areas.


     

    Sorry, I just don't believe you have fathered a statistically significant enough proportion of the kids for that to be generally true.

  • Reply 64 of 86
    You're aware that hundreds of models of fully functional, very reasonably priced keyboards are available for the iPad, right? /roll-eyes

    I believe [@]AWilliams87[/@] was praising Microsoft for branding their optional keyboard so that it gave the illusion of being "integrated". Odd how that my Logitech iPad Air keyboard also snaps on with magnets, matches the aesthetic of my iPad, and is fully supported by iOS, but still doesn't get brownie points because its isn't Apple-branded.
  • Reply 65 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

    You're aware that hundreds of models of fully functional, very reasonably priced keyboards are available for the iPad, right? /roll-eyes


    I believe @AWilliams87 was praising Microsoft for branding their optional keyboard so that it gave the illusion of being "integrated". Odd how that my Logitech iPad Air keyboard also snaps on with magnets, matches the aesthetic of my iPad, and is fully supported by iOS, but still doesn't get brownie points because its isn't Apple-branded.

     

    If he had actually said that, it would have made a lot more sense. But what he said was: "This (a keyboard) is something that the iPad should of had [sic]".
  • Reply 66 of 86

    I can only assume that Customer support for all level of users was available, Apple would not sign a contract and then not back it up - I do believe that.

    User (school district) - project running over budget, etc - knee jerk reaction by school district to cover their inability to run the school district as a business that it is.

    Apple should not be held responsible for functional issues of the school district.

    Keyboard - I would not do serious production work from my iPad - a user friendly keyboard would be a requirement.

    Apps targeted to school diversity would be smart, but then the school district could save the tax payers money if uniform processes & practices would be mirrored in all schools.

    The state is or will be into bankruptcy?

    Starting to build a new platform will again use resources that could well be spent elsewhere.

     

    Sounds like a grudge match to me - will be waiting to see how the non Apple platform performs.

  • Reply 67 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    I was replying to your:

    What I was trying to get across was that Public schools are not all the same nor do they have equal access to the tax base.



    Consider these:



    Upper middle-class suburban -- fewer students per home, yet they pay high property taxes on medium-high priced houses.



    Lower middle-class urban - more students per family, yet they pay little or no property taxes because they live in apartments.



    In the first case, the school district has lots of money to provide for fewer students *



    In the second case, the school district has less money to provide for more students.



    * I grew up in Pasadena, CA -- there were 18 homes on our block with 9 school children in 5 of the houses. That means that 13 of the families were helping to pay for the cost of education of children of 5 families -- with no direct benefit to themselves.



    I am no fan of student redistribution (bussing) or income (tax) redistribution -- these have been unsuccessful.





    I do believe that we need to do something to improve our education system -- but throwing money or technology at the problem is not a sufficient solution.

    But my argument was that public schools profits from taxation, thus certain economic incentives don't exist for them. It really doesn't matter if some school districts get more tax money than others.

  • Reply 68 of 86
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    At this point, I hope Apple sues the LA school district for 

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post

     

    But my argument was that public schools profits from taxation, thus certain economic incentives don't exist for them. It really doesn't matter if some school districts get more tax money than others.


     

    Government is inherently not competitive. It quashes competition and feeds corruption. Like any creation involving people, it ultimately benefits itself as people are self-interested. At least with competition, inefficient and corrupt businesses fail and are replaced.

     

    The only things the Federal government should be responsible for are those defined and restricted in the Constitution.

  • Reply 69 of 86
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

    At this point, I hope Apple sues the LA school district for 

     

    Government is inherently not competitive. It quashes competition and feeds corruption. Like any creation involving people, it ultimately benefits itself as people are self-interested. At least with competition, inefficient and corrupt businesses fail and are replaced.

     

    The only things the Federal government should be responsible for are those defined and restricted in the Constitution.


    Yes, I agree. But Dick's response confused me. Schools not having "equal access to the tax base" doesn't really matter.

  • Reply 70 of 86

    Very true since Apple have greater ecosystem to support school wide system!

    Look at Window and Android devices. They still do not have ecosystem at all.

     

    Remember! Dell debacle

     

    "The device itself is a short-term thing," said Perris Supt. Greenberg. "New devices are always coming out."

    That is the whole problem! They stick to with choices - Chromebook and other devices. They don’t see the whole ecosystem solution. 

     

    Believe me as it will create more problem for teachers and students from Perris Union High School District. It will repeat history all over again.

     

    Let us keep eyes on Perris Union HS as they will raise and waving with white flags.

  • Reply 71 of 86
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

    Take your "reasonably priced keyboards" and multiply that by the number of students involved and you'll see that adds up quickly.

     

    Exactly. So maybe the children should learn how to use a TOUCHSCREEN since that’s the game-changing future of technology to them what mouse+keyboard was to most of us.


     

    A touchscreen is never going to eliminate the keyboard. In fact, the more people use a touchscreen for work, the more they realize how much they need a keyboard.

  • Reply 72 of 86
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

    A touchscreen is never going to eliminate the keyboard. In fact, the more people use a touchscreen for work, the more they realize how much they need a keyboard.

     

    And a screen will never replace blinkenlights¡

     

    They’ve already replaced keyboards and mice on phones and tablets.

  • Reply 73 of 86
    Note that suspend does not mean cancel or terminate. Apple makes the best and most effective tablets. The contract will resume.
  • Reply 74 of 86
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,406moderator
    Public schools are a mismanaged disaster. Shut them all down and get private companies in there to compete for students instead.

    Making them private would make them unaccountable. They'd do the same thing as this but you wouldn't hear about it. Private companies selling PCs bundle Windows with every one and had it not been for the government, Internet Explorer would have remained the most dominant web browser, holding back web standards. In a competitive utopia, there would be schools offering Apple products and schools offering Windows products and schools offering Android products and every combination of every other product so you'd have a thousand schools to choose from all driving down costs of education and the best teachers everywhere.

    That's just a fantasy and it's another example of turning back time:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_the_United_States#Growth_of_public_schools

    "The school system remained largely private and unorganized until the 1840s. Public schools were always under local control, with no federal role, and little state role. The 1840 census indicated that of the 3.68 million children between the ages of five and fifteen, about 55% attended primary schools and academies."

    It marginalizes the poor and allows companies to set their own agenda be it promotion of religious views, promotion of certain genders, sexualities or races and they'd take bribes and incentives from wherever they wanted. It didn't work before, which is why it's not popular now.

    Plus, they're not excluding Apple, they are responding to feedback about their iPad rollout:

    "under the recently expanded approach, 18,000 laptops are being purchased. Deasy wrote that he expects Apple and Pearson to be among the bidders in the new process."

    If a 10" iPad is too small, I guess an 11" Air will be too leaving their 13" $999 Air to compete with ~$200 Chromebooks. We know that iPads aren't as productive as Macs and general laptops so this shouldn't be a surprise. Even copying and pasting is laborious on tablets especially if the text goes past the edge of the screen and then there's sending documents to staff or back home to continue on other devices.

    Apple doesn't necessarily need a fitted keyboard but they need to sit someone with an iPad next to someone with a Macbook Air and make them both do productive tasks and whenever the person on the iPad is going too slow or hitting a hurdle, sort it out. There's no reason a touch device can't be as efficient as a laptop. The laptop's advantage is simply down to the touchpad mapping to a ratio of the screen dimensions with the precision of a pixel and having fixed keys that perform precise actions every time. This can be replicated without a physical trackpad and keyboard with a 3D gesture zone above the table. Attaching a keyboard is the wrong way to go because it forces one tablet orientation.

    They could redesign the smart cover to not fold up the way it does. That only allows you to use landscape anyway. It can fold up in a way to hold an iPad in landscape or portrait and it can have an area that tracks gestures. They'd need a whole new UI mechanism beside a mouse pointer because it would use multi-touch.

    Until they figure this out, laptops will always be preferred for productivity. iPads are better for younger children though as they can read books and their attention is held better with interactive software.
    Apple || wrote:
    When I was a kid, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far away, there was one Apple ][ machine in the classroom, that was shared by 35 students!

    You're recommending what made you turn out this way?
    Apple || wrote:
    Let the damn parents provide for their children. And then they are free to buy whatever they please.

    Kids shouldn't suffer because of the inability or unwillingness of their parents to buy them technology.
  • Reply 75 of 86
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    They’ve already replaced keyboards and mice on phones and tablets.


     

    One more time for those who didn't get it the first time:

     

    "A touchscreen is never going to eliminate the keyboard. In fact, the more people use a touchscreen for work, the more they realize how much they need a keyboard."

     

    Your rebuttal only backs up what I wrote. Thanks!  

  • Reply 76 of 86
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

    Your rebuttal only backs up what I wrote. Thanks!  

     

    So you’re illiterate?

  • Reply 77 of 86
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    So you’re illiterate?


     

    No, but I think you read things incorrectly.

  • Reply 78 of 86
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    And a screen will never replace blinkenlights¡

     

    They’ve already replaced keyboards and mice on phones and tablets.


    True but I am no where near as fast as when I'm working with a physical keyboard, phone included, I am almost three time as fast when using a BlackBerry keyboard for instance. Not just faster, more proficient but it's also a lot more comfortable, I would never write a program using a virtual keyboard for instance. Students need to learn how to touch type using a mechanical keyboard before moving onto tablets. Not to say an iPad doesn't make a good learning tool, just also needs a keyboard.

  • Reply 79 of 86
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,597member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    Many kids today are a bunch of illiterate, little monkeys. Obnoxious, ignorant creatures who lack basic fundamental skills in many areas. The US educational system is pretty pathetic, compared to many other countries in the world. American students are dumb, and they are just getting dumber. An idiocracy type of society is what these kids will end up producing.

    I agree with SpamSandwich. Students and their families should be paying for their own computers.

    When I was a kid, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far away, there was one Apple ][ machine in the classroom, that was shared by 35 students!

    If every student wants their own computer, then don't those kids have something called parents? Let the damn parents provide for their children. And then they are free to buy whatever they please.

    Take head out of rectum. The iPad replaces text books, a school expense. And we certainly don't, and shouldn't, expect kids to pay for their own textbooks. This is such a nonissue.
  • Reply 80 of 86
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    There is no right to an education in the US Constitution.



    http://www.cato.org/blog/education-constitution



    You may be thinking of your own state's constitution.

    I read what you responded to there, and I don't see how it matters. A significant portion of school funding comes from state and local sources. I also kind of disagree with Dick on the apartment thing, as renters do facilitate the payment of property tax. In some municipalities (LA is one of them) landlords are allowed to include certain surcharges to reclaim various per unit fees. The downside to areas with a high concentration of apartments is that you typically have a smaller tax base relative to the population in that area.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

    At this point, I hope Apple sues the LA school district for 

     

    Government is inherently not competitive. It quashes competition and feeds corruption. Like any creation involving people, it ultimately benefits itself as people are self-interested. At least with competition, inefficient and corrupt businesses fail and are replaced.

     

    The only things the Federal government should be responsible for are those defined and restricted in the Constitution.




    You don't know that they broke any contracts. Even if they did, imagine the PR disaster. I don't think any highly visible company with competent management would consider that option.

     

    The civil servant mentality has its problems, but these often aren't provided for by privatization. You seem to have forgotten Enron and energy trading. Free market principles work well when it's possible to allow specific businesses to fail without destroying infrastructure which has been deemed necessary. I don't know how you would do that in the case of schools. Homeschooling  probably works for some children.

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