Pretty much confirms what all the sites have said about the benefits of dvorak. The applet says that, using dvorak, I'm moving about 2/3 of the distance that I move in qwerty. And while qwerty has me typing over 60% of the keystrokes on the top row, dvorak is only 20%. Nice.
<strong>Well, I am using my existing keyboard, just with a different layout (found in the International CP in OS X). I'm on my Ti 667 most often, so a different keyboard would be of little use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
how did you take the keys off of your Ti?
after having so many problems with my Ti, i don't want to cause any more
also, how do the <fn> keys work in dvorak?
I think I'm finally going to make a permanent switch this semester...
but I will have my pro keyboard with regular qwerty if i ever need to REALLY type...
how did you overcome AIM usage during your transition? did you just type really slow?
i used dvorak for about a week but had to switch to much to be serious about learning (due to school and work). during the summer when i get a laptop, i will use dvorak on there!
i type around 120wpm, 180 is crazy
how can you get wpm from c++, its completely different type of things. Is that including characters that aren't words?
I've been using Dvorak for about a year, on Windows and Mac, for programming, html coding and general typing and will never go back. I must say I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of enthusiasm for it in this thread.
I switched because I was getting the first twinges of pain in my wrist. As a programmer this is not a good thing. I also switched to using a trackball which I occasionally alternate between my left and right hand.
My recommendation is to forget about moving keys: one of the greatest benefits of shifting to Dvorak for me was better posture as I look at the words appearing on the screen while typing rather than glancing down at the keys then back up to try and catch typos.
This is just good practice for Dvorak or Qwerty touch typing but it was much easier to enforce on Dvorak. When your starting out you can use the Key Caps app that is in the Utilites folder to give an onscreen reference, particularly for finding weird punctuation.
For those that aren't aware you can set up two (or more) keyboard layouts under Mac OS X, in my case UK English and US Dvorak. I can switch between them with ease by hitting Command-alt-space. This is perfect if you have other users or need to switch back and forth while learning. Also the little flag that appears on the menubar gives you easy access to the very handy Character Palette- see <a href="http://radio.weblogs.com/0100676/2002/08/27.html."; target="_blank">http://radio.weblogs.com/0100676/2002/08/27.html.</a>;
Also note that the Mac has a special layout that reverts to qwerty when you hit the Command key. This means you can still make use of your muscle memory for keyboard shortcuts.
There is no equivalent of this on Windows and this was one of the hardest parts to master. I found that I memorised shortcuts by position, not by the assigned letter of the alphabet.
<strong>I've always thought this a good idea but never got around to trying it. I type about 40-50 wpm but it's pure hunt and peck, looking at the keyboard most of the time, and only using about 4 fingers to boot. I'm like a really good handicapped typist! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> If the layout of keys made more sense, I'd probably type a whole lot faster.
Question, you all just re-arranged your keys by popping them out and re-seating them in the DVORAK layout? I think you'll probably have to be carefull which keyboard you use as some of the 'ergo' keyboards have different size/angled keys on the different rows; you could end up with a very funny feeling keyboard. Is this easy to do for laptop keyboards?</strong><hr></blockquote>
From what I've heard from my laptop-using friend, re-seating those little buttons isn't the easiest thing to do in the world. Though you should probably not take that advice.
Dug my old Apple USB keyboard out of the closet, pried up all the keys and rearranged them, and cleaned it. Good God that thing was dirty.
It's back in the closet now. Dvorak is too hard. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[quote] Dug my old Apple USB keyboard out of the closet, pried up all the keys and rearranged them, and cleaned it. Good God that thing was dirty. <hr></blockquote>
Just done the same
[quote]It's back in the closet now. <hr></blockquote>
I am getting close to putting it back but I am slowly getting the hang of it. It has taken me like five minutes to type this post. I find it OK to type but then after every few words I get totally lost. The idea that the letters aoeuidhttns- are all on the home row is actually cool and I can see how this would be benifical.
I'm just learning, but it seems very nice. Thoughts?
-Ender
(yeah, I'm still awfully slow, so I'm keeping this short.)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Heck, even an ABC keyboard should be better than Qwerty... but, alas, I don't...
Why do we use a system designed to be slower so that a typewriter wouldn't jam, and then have people work on their speed? "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills." -- Zoolander.
QWERTY was invented to slow typist down. When they still used typewriters, people using DVORAK would jam the needles becuase they typed to fast. QWERTY was invented so that they didn't jam typewriters.
I have been inspired to switch to DVORAK, which I sorta used to know.
If you are learning Dvorak touch typing I would recommend either Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor, which has a 10 day free trial or the shareware Master Key.
These programs can give you feedback on your progress and let you build up gradually. They also have some good advice about correct posture and practice regimes for maximising muscle learning.
Mulattabianca: there is no official Dvorak keyboard for any other language than English. Dvorak did a lot of research to perfect his keyboard, the non-English keyboard layouts you find that claim to be Dvorak are just quick hacks and may not be standard enough to find on different computers/platforms etc.
The Dvorak US layout is shipped with Windows and the Mac so it only takes seconds to switch a computer that you are using temporarily.
I kinda wish Dvorak was standardized... but I don't think it's that beneficial to learn it, especially for laptop owners or people who have to use a bunch of different computers.
I rearranged the keycaps on my keyboard once to be Dvorak, but I couldn't break into it for long enough to really learn it. Maybe I should try, but now that I have a laptop it'll be that much harder.
i really think i am going to give this a try. i have almost no reason to, since i type qwerty at about 75wpm, but i would really like to try to get over 100wpm, and i just can't do that without qwerty. the fastest i have ever tested is like 85wpm.
moreover, this looks fun and exciting. i had never heard of it before this thread
Comments
Pretty much confirms what all the sites have said about the benefits of dvorak. The applet says that, using dvorak, I'm moving about 2/3 of the distance that I move in qwerty. And while qwerty has me typing over 60% of the keystrokes on the top row, dvorak is only 20%. Nice.
And I think I'm up to maybe 50-60 wpm now.
-Ender
<strong>Well, I am using my existing keyboard, just with a different layout (found in the International CP in OS X). I'm on my Ti 667 most often, so a different keyboard would be of little use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
how did you take the keys off of your Ti?
after having so many problems with my Ti, i don't want to cause any more
also, how do the <fn> keys work in dvorak?
I think I'm finally going to make a permanent switch this semester...
but I will have my pro keyboard with regular qwerty if i ever need to REALLY type...
how did you overcome AIM usage during your transition? did you just type really slow?
[qwerty]i'm still very slow. that dvorak section took me quite a while to do. but i like it. i wonder how long before i get used to it.[/qwerty]
i type around 120wpm, 180 is crazy
how can you get wpm from c++, its completely different type of things. Is that including characters that aren't words?
I switched because I was getting the first twinges of pain in my wrist. As a programmer this is not a good thing. I also switched to using a trackball which I occasionally alternate between my left and right hand.
My recommendation is to forget about moving keys: one of the greatest benefits of shifting to Dvorak for me was better posture as I look at the words appearing on the screen while typing rather than glancing down at the keys then back up to try and catch typos.
This is just good practice for Dvorak or Qwerty touch typing but it was much easier to enforce on Dvorak. When your starting out you can use the Key Caps app that is in the Utilites folder to give an onscreen reference, particularly for finding weird punctuation.
For those that aren't aware you can set up two (or more) keyboard layouts under Mac OS X, in my case UK English and US Dvorak. I can switch between them with ease by hitting Command-alt-space. This is perfect if you have other users or need to switch back and forth while learning. Also the little flag that appears on the menubar gives you easy access to the very handy Character Palette- see <a href="http://radio.weblogs.com/0100676/2002/08/27.html."; target="_blank">http://radio.weblogs.com/0100676/2002/08/27.html.</a>;
Also note that the Mac has a special layout that reverts to qwerty when you hit the Command key. This means you can still make use of your muscle memory for keyboard shortcuts.
There is no equivalent of this on Windows and this was one of the hardest parts to master. I found that I memorised shortcuts by position, not by the assigned letter of the alphabet.
Try it, you'll love it.
havent tried yet, been thinking plenty of times....
if there was a poll for the most painful keyboard, i'd vote for the french!!
.....It took me a few minutes to type this post.
I am interested in trying it out but I want a propper dvorak keyboard for my TiBook!
<strong>I've always thought this a good idea but never got around to trying it. I type about 40-50 wpm but it's pure hunt and peck, looking at the keyboard most of the time, and only using about 4 fingers to boot. I'm like a really good handicapped typist! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> If the layout of keys made more sense, I'd probably type a whole lot faster.
Question, you all just re-arranged your keys by popping them out and re-seating them in the DVORAK layout? I think you'll probably have to be carefull which keyboard you use as some of the 'ergo' keyboards have different size/angled keys on the different rows; you could end up with a very funny feeling keyboard. Is this easy to do for laptop keyboards?</strong><hr></blockquote>
From what I've heard from my laptop-using friend, re-seating those little buttons isn't the easiest thing to do in the world. Though you should probably not take that advice.
Dug my old Apple USB keyboard out of the closet, pried up all the keys and rearranged them, and cleaned it. Good God that thing was dirty.
It's back in the closet now. Dvorak is too hard. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Just done the same
[quote]It's back in the closet now. <hr></blockquote>
I am getting close to putting it back but I am slowly getting the hang of it. It has taken me like five minutes to type this post. I find it OK to type but then after every few words I get totally lost. The idea that the letters aoeuidhttns- are all on the home row is actually cool and I can see how this would be benifical.
Its taken me over ten minutes to do this post
<strong>Well?
I'm just learning, but it seems very nice. Thoughts?
-Ender
(yeah, I'm still awfully slow, so I'm keeping this short.)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Heck, even an ABC keyboard should be better than Qwerty... but, alas, I don't...
Why do we use a system designed to be slower so that a typewriter wouldn't jam, and then have people work on their speed? "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills." -- Zoolander.
I get ò, Ã*, ù, è, ì, é, ç in ONE key. I havent found a dvorak layout for italian keyboards.
If i need 5 - 15 % of THOSE letters, it sure sslows down if in the new one i need TWO strokes to those.
So, how can i add ò, Ã*, ù, è, é, ì in ONE KEY? i'd like ç, ñ and ã also.
As long as to to those letters i'll need TWO keys i don't believe i'll be able to type sgnifcantly faster in italian on dvorak.
I find dvorak for palms.
and dvorak for BeOS / PC. and dvorak for dutch and spanish, but for windows.
anyone has ever found a dvorak layout for italian mac?? something to use with ibook.. i need òÃ*ùèìé with 1 key..
QWERTY was invented to slow typist down. When they still used typewriters, people using DVORAK would jam the needles becuase they typed to fast. QWERTY was invented so that they didn't jam typewriters.
I have been inspired to switch to DVORAK, which I sorta used to know.
These programs can give you feedback on your progress and let you build up gradually. They also have some good advice about correct posture and practice regimes for maximising muscle learning.
Mulattabianca: there is no official Dvorak keyboard for any other language than English. Dvorak did a lot of research to perfect his keyboard, the non-English keyboard layouts you find that claim to be Dvorak are just quick hacks and may not be standard enough to find on different computers/platforms etc.
The Dvorak US layout is shipped with Windows and the Mac so it only takes seconds to switch a computer that you are using temporarily.
i found no stats for italian, only
<a href="http://www.shiar.org/happy/txts/dvoraklv.php"; target="_blank">spanish dvorak stats</a>
Spanish Dvorak variation
~ ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ) { } ____
` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 [ ] BS
___ : ; W P Y F G C H L ¿ _ ¡
Tab . , w p y f g c h l ? - !
____ A< O> E| U/ I\\ D R T N S Ã? _____
Caps a o e u i d r t n s ñ Enter
_____ " Q J K X B M ¨ V Z _______
Shift ' q j k x b m ´ v z Shift
____ ____ _________________ _____ ____
Ctrl Alt Space Bar AltGr Ctrl
(row by row) :
dvorak
18.9%
19.5%
72.7%
71.0%
8.4%
9.6%
us
dvorak
24.2%
24.3%
67.4%
65.9%
8.4%
9.6%
qwerty
48.3%
46.1%
31.8%
33.7%
19.9%
20.2%
Individual Finger Usage :
Dvorak es 13% 10% 13% 14% 17% 11% 8% 14%
Dvorak us 12% 10% 14% 14% 12% 9% 14% 14% Qwerty es 13% 7% 21% 16% 15% 8% 15% 6%
hm, i think the english has to do.. but only when i write in english... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: Mulattabianca ]</p>
I rearranged the keycaps on my keyboard once to be Dvorak, but I couldn't break into it for long enough to really learn it. Maybe I should try, but now that I have a laptop it'll be that much harder.
moreover, this looks fun and exciting. i had never heard of it before this thread