I was first inline at an Apple store. The Chinese kid next to me slots in second then comes some Chinese ladies third and fourth right down to about 8th. Sometime during the night before the store opens most of these Chinese folk, slot in there friends so that the person who was say 10 for the previous 24 hours now is 26th in line after he has been waiting line for over 24 hours. The most disturbing thing was what my Chinese comrade who was originally no 2 was up to. By the time the store was open at 8:00AM there were 4 of his friends, two of whom showed up at 6:00AM all of whom are now taking spots 3 to 6 in line. So the poor individual who has whethered the cold for days misses out so my Chinese comrade can slip in his friends. And guess what, almost without exception, everyone of these guys is using something other than Apple iPhones. A short discussion with the one who did speak English says they are all their to supply people in China !! Argh !!!
And oh yes, when we go to place our orders just before opening, the Apple Store are out of iPhone 6 Plus 64G gold before we even get to number 7 in line.
Tim Cook, how is this fair !! The poor fella who has shown he's mettle by sleeping out to show how much he appreciates your products, misses out to outrageous shenanigans on the line. Tim please please do something about this.
Don't parade your utter abject ignorance of what real-world manufacturing, logistics, and marketing entail.
So you think selling out of devices was not part of Apple's plan? I'm not saying it's a scheme. But surely by now they know that this is what happens, and it happens because of their manufacturing, logistics, and marketing.
I was first inline at an Apple store. The Chinese kid next to me slots in second then comes some Chinese ladies third and fourth right down to about 8th. Sometime during the night before the store opens most of these Chinese folk, slot in there friends so that the person who was say 10 for the previous 24 hours now is 26th in line after he has been waiting line for over 24 hours. The most disturbing thing was what my Chinese comrade who was originally no 2 was up to. By the time the store was open at 8:00AM there were 4 of his friends, two of whom showed up at 6:00AM all of whom are now taking spots 3 to 6 in line. So the poor individual who has whethered the cold for days misses out so my Chinese comrade can slip in his friends. And guess what, almost without exception, everyone of these guys is using something other than Apple iPhones. A short discussion with the one who did speak English says they are all their to supply people in China !! Argh !!!
And oh yes, when we go to place our orders just before opening, the Apple Store are out of iPhone 6 Plus 64G gold before we even get to number 7 in line.
Tim Cook, how is this fair !! The poor fella who has shown he's mettle by sleeping out to show how much he appreciates your products, misses out to outrageous shenanigans on the line. Tim please please do something about this.
Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.
Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.
Just pondering...
Yeah, I was not really commenting about where they were from or for what reason they were buying. No criticism about them making some bucks. They're good entrepreneurs. But dropping a friend with you in the line ahead of those already in the line, no way !! There are simple western ideas about 'concern for your fellow man' and simple fairness.
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/182450/profiteers-flipping-iphone-6-units-to-chinese-reportedly-to-blame-for-fight-at-apple-store#post_2603990" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Numenorean</strong> <a href="/t/182450/profiteers-flipping-iphone-6-units-to-chinese-reportedly-to-blame-for-fight-at-apple-store#post_2603990"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <p><br />Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.</p><p> </p><p>Just pondering...</p></div></div><p><br />Yeah, I was not really commenting about where they were from or for what reason they were buying. No criticism about them making some bucks. They're good entrepreneurs.<span style="line-height:1.4em"> But dropping a friend with you in the line </span>ahead<span style="line-height:1.4em"> of those already in the line</span>, no way !! There are simple western ideas about 'concern for your fellow man' and simple fairness.</p>
simple solution is give the people in the line a token with a number and then serve in that order.
Don't parade your utter abject ignorance of what real-world manufacturing, logistics, and marketing entail.
So you think selling out of devices was not part of Apple's plan? I'm not saying it's a scheme. But surely by now they know that this is what happens, and it happens because of their manufacturing, logistics, and marketing.
I am not following your point. A 'plan', not a 'scheme'? Meaning what? You agree with what I am saying?.
simple solution is give the people in the line a token with a number and then serve in that order.
Sorry sing, that won't work. I could show up weeks ahead of a launch, get my token and then go home, to arrive back just before opening on launch day. Believe me I have thought about how to solve the problem and it's not easy.
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/182450/profiteers-flipping-iphone-6-units-to-chinese-reportedly-to-blame-for-fight-at-apple-store/40#post_2603998" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>singularity</strong> <a href="/t/182450/profiteers-flipping-iphone-6-units-to-chinese-reportedly-to-blame-for-fight-at-apple-store/40#post_2603998"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /><br /><br />simple solution is give the people in the line a token with a number and then serve in that order.</div></div><p><br />Sorry sing, that won't work. I could show up weeks ahead of a launch, get my token and then go home, to arrive back just before opening on launch day. Believe me I have thought about how to solve the problem and it's not easy.</p>
Ok gps, iBeacon with a photo. Heck go the whole hog and DNA the bastards.
I am not following your point. A 'plan', not a 'scheme'? Meaning what? You agree with what I am saying?.
Sorry. What I'm saying is that Apple planned to not have enough phones in stores. I'm not saying it was a goal, but with the manufacturing, logistics, and marketing that were planned, running out of phones was a known result. There are a number of things that could be done to avoid it, if running out of phones was not acceptable, but those would have compromised the launch goals.
Ok gps, iBeacon with a photo. Heck go the whole hog and DNA the bastards.
Singgy, I think you are sort of on the right track but DNA also wouldn't work. You need some way to confirm that some poor bastard actually stayed in the line for weeks, days or whatever. I mean you can exchange your place with someone else to go for comfort breaks etc, but how do ensure against the a#$&hole who brings his Jonny come-lately-friends to the party just before launch opening hour to take a place ahead in the line of the poor bastard who actually waited in the line?
Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.
Just pondering...
You're full of rational and insightful thoughts today. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm completely serious. I agree with both your posts on this topic. A. Who cares who's buying the phones and if they are reselling them. B. Protect the integrity of the line to prevent chaos and unfairness.
You're full of rational and insightful thoughts today. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm completely serious. I agree with both your posts on this topic. A. Who cares who's buying the phones and if they are reselling them. B. Protect the integrity of the line to prevent chaos and unfairness.
So... Apple needs to appoint 'Line Managers'. (Well... I thought that sounded comical !) No seriously.
Sorry. What I'm saying is that Apple planned to not have enough phones in stores. I'm not saying it was a goal, but with the manufacturing, logistics, and marketing that were planned, running out of phones was a known result. There are a number of things that could be done to avoid it, if running out of phones was not acceptable, but those would have compromised the launch goals.
If you change "planned" to "predicted" or "expected" I'd agree with you. Could Apple have done more to ensure that almost everyone got their phone on "Day 1?" Sure, they could have pushed Day 1 back to say December 1 so they would have 40 million phones on hand, and between now and then they could just be stacking up in a Warehouse and no one would have one. How does that makes sense?
So... Apple needs to appoint 'Line Managers'. (Well... I thought that sounded comical !) No seriously.
Yes, they should invest more in planning and training to deal with these predictable crushes of people. This is basic "Black Friday" stuff (to an extreme degree).
There was at least 600 of people in the line (and ours was a 'small' line)at opening and most of the i 6 product was well and truly sold after some modest percentage of the line had made it through the doors.
All this talk has me curious. Given that we're talking about America here, what difference does it make what people do with phones after they buy them? If I'm a deranged millionaire who wants to buy a bunch of phones and smash them with a hammer, does that mean Apple can't sell them to me? Are we going to start having "worthiness" checks to buy phones now?
Sorry. What I'm saying is that Apple planned to not have enough phones in stores. I'm not saying it was a goal, but with the manufacturing, logistics, and marketing that were planned, running out of phones was a known result. There are a number of things that could be done to avoid it, if running out of phones was not acceptable, but those would have compromised the launch goals.
They will always run out of iPhones. You think Apple doesn't want to sell iPhones to everyone? There's only so many iPhones they can make. Suppose they could have start making them earlier. That means they would need to stop making the previous iPhones sooner so then they will have a scarcity of current iPhones by a month or two. How does that help?
Yes, they should invest more in planning and training to deal with these predictable crushes of people. This is basic "Black Friday" stuff (to an extreme degree).
Sorry sing, that won't work. I could show up weeks ahead of a launch, get my token and then go home, to arrive back just before opening on launch day. Believe me I have thought about how to solve the problem and it's not easy.
It might work. Apple can say you can't get a numbered token until 10 am the previous day. And you need to come back by the time the store opens and line up by the numbers on launch day. But who is to say those line tokens won't be sold.
Guys I really feel like if you want to receive an iPhone in a frustration-free manner it's best just to wait a couple weeks. I have done the line in years past, at both apple and best buy (which was far worse in how they organized theirs), but this time I just ordered on Saturday from Att and 2-3 weeks is not a huge deal. The Chinese or any other non launch country wants it first just as badly as some of us, agree that Craigslist and eBay sales domestically are probably just as big as a culprit, but just see it what it is...behind every line waiter either they or someone else is just as excited as you. You're not in line to vote lol, you're buying a product on the open market and ought to know what you're in for by now if you take part in launch day activities. Complaining about non English speakers or Samsung phones being in line isn't very nice, no need to bring dogma into what can be a fun day with friends whether or not you actually end up getting a phone in the end
There is a VERY EASY way to stop it and it's already built-in into iOS... ACTIVATION LOCK.
The moment you buy it, it becomes locked and this initial lock stays for say 2-4 weeks until the landrush is over. I really wish Apple would consider doing this for our sake.
Done.
Folks wouldn't buy the phones if that were done. After all all they paid for it so who the hell is apple to deny them using it for even 2 hours.
Requiring all phones to be activated on an account at the times purchase is about as close as they might come but they would also need carriers to have systems to tell if someone is activating and canceling accounts over and over. Otherwise they just need to enforce their own rules. They need to require an Id and track them to make sure someone isnt buying more than the limits. Apple ID if nothing else. But one thst has been used before with full billing address etc. not set up just for buying s phone. They need to tell their managers if they know someone is a reseller refuse them. Many stores are small enough they recognize names and faces. And if someone wants to sue claiming Apple is being racist, let them. The truth will out when those so called victims have to prove their case. It's not racist that the bulk of the resellers happen to be Russian, Armenian, Israeli and Chinese.
Comments
I was first inline at an Apple store. The Chinese kid next to me slots in second then comes some Chinese ladies third and fourth right down to about 8th. Sometime during the night before the store opens most of these Chinese folk, slot in there friends so that the person who was say 10 for the previous 24 hours now is 26th in line after he has been waiting line for over 24 hours. The most disturbing thing was what my Chinese comrade who was originally no 2 was up to. By the time the store was open at 8:00AM there were 4 of his friends, two of whom showed up at 6:00AM all of whom are now taking spots 3 to 6 in line. So the poor individual who has whethered the cold for days misses out so my Chinese comrade can slip in his friends. And guess what, almost without exception, everyone of these guys is using something other than Apple iPhones. A short discussion with the one who did speak English says they are all their to supply people in China !! Argh !!!
And oh yes, when we go to place our orders just before opening, the Apple Store are out of iPhone 6 Plus 64G gold before we even get to number 7 in line.
Tim Cook, how is this fair !! The poor fella who has shown he's mettle by sleeping out to show how much he appreciates your products, misses out to outrageous shenanigans on the line. Tim please please do something about this.
'Creating scarcity'?
Don't parade your utter abject ignorance of what real-world manufacturing, logistics, and marketing entail.
So you think selling out of devices was not part of Apple's plan? I'm not saying it's a scheme. But surely by now they know that this is what happens, and it happens because of their manufacturing, logistics, and marketing.
I was first inline at an Apple store. The Chinese kid next to me slots in second then comes some Chinese ladies third and fourth right down to about 8th. Sometime during the night before the store opens most of these Chinese folk, slot in there friends so that the person who was say 10 for the previous 24 hours now is 26th in line after he has been waiting line for over 24 hours. The most disturbing thing was what my Chinese comrade who was originally no 2 was up to. By the time the store was open at 8:00AM there were 4 of his friends, two of whom showed up at 6:00AM all of whom are now taking spots 3 to 6 in line. So the poor individual who has whethered the cold for days misses out so my Chinese comrade can slip in his friends. And guess what, almost without exception, everyone of these guys is using something other than Apple iPhones. A short discussion with the one who did speak English says they are all their to supply people in China !! Argh !!!
And oh yes, when we go to place our orders just before opening, the Apple Store are out of iPhone 6 Plus 64G gold before we even get to number 7 in line.
Tim Cook, how is this fair !! The poor fella who has shown he's mettle by sleeping out to show how much he appreciates your products, misses out to outrageous shenanigans on the line. Tim please please do something about this.
Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.
Just pondering...
Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.
Just pondering...
Yeah, I was not really commenting about where they were from or for what reason they were buying. No criticism about them making some bucks. They're good entrepreneurs. But dropping a friend with you in the line ahead of those already in the line, no way !! There are simple western ideas about 'concern for your fellow man' and simple fairness.
I am not following your point. A 'plan', not a 'scheme'? Meaning what? You agree with what I am saying?.
simple solution is give the people in the line a token with a number and then serve in that order.
Sorry sing, that won't work. I could show up weeks ahead of a launch, get my token and then go home, to arrive back just before opening on launch day. Believe me I have thought about how to solve the problem and it's not easy.
I am not following your point. A 'plan', not a 'scheme'? Meaning what? You agree with what I am saying?.
Sorry. What I'm saying is that Apple planned to not have enough phones in stores. I'm not saying it was a goal, but with the manufacturing, logistics, and marketing that were planned, running out of phones was a known result. There are a number of things that could be done to avoid it, if running out of phones was not acceptable, but those would have compromised the launch goals.
Ok gps, iBeacon with a photo. Heck go the whole hog and DNA the bastards.
Singgy, I think you are sort of on the right track but DNA also wouldn't work. You need some way to confirm that some poor bastard actually stayed in the line for weeks, days or whatever. I mean you can exchange your place with someone else to go for comfort breaks etc, but how do ensure against the a#$&hole who brings his Jonny come-lately-friends to the party just before launch opening hour to take a place ahead in the line of the poor bastard who actually waited in the line?
Where they're from is no one's concern, nor who they're buying it for. That is each person's prerogative and is a private matter. BUT that line management problem should most definitely be addressed. One thing is to stay in line for someone else, but suddenly bring in a group of people? No way. The Apple Stores should really address this issue. It actually has been happening for years, but it seems it's been much more obvious this time around.
Just pondering...
You're full of rational and insightful thoughts today. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm completely serious. I agree with both your posts on this topic. A. Who cares who's buying the phones and if they are reselling them. B. Protect the integrity of the line to prevent chaos and unfairness.
You're full of rational and insightful thoughts today. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm completely serious. I agree with both your posts on this topic. A. Who cares who's buying the phones and if they are reselling them. B. Protect the integrity of the line to prevent chaos and unfairness.
So... Apple needs to appoint 'Line Managers'. (Well... I thought that sounded comical !) No seriously.
Sorry. What I'm saying is that Apple planned to not have enough phones in stores. I'm not saying it was a goal, but with the manufacturing, logistics, and marketing that were planned, running out of phones was a known result. There are a number of things that could be done to avoid it, if running out of phones was not acceptable, but those would have compromised the launch goals.
If you change "planned" to "predicted" or "expected" I'd agree with you. Could Apple have done more to ensure that almost everyone got their phone on "Day 1?" Sure, they could have pushed Day 1 back to say December 1 so they would have 40 million phones on hand, and between now and then they could just be stacking up in a Warehouse and no one would have one. How does that makes sense?
So... Apple needs to appoint 'Line Managers'. (Well... I thought that sounded comical !) No seriously.
Yes, they should invest more in planning and training to deal with these predictable crushes of people. This is basic "Black Friday" stuff (to an extreme degree).
There was at least 600 of people in the line (and ours was a 'small' line) at opening and most of the i 6 product was well and truly sold after some modest percentage of the line had made it through the doors.
They will always run out of iPhones. You think Apple doesn't want to sell iPhones to everyone? There's only so many iPhones they can make. Suppose they could have start making them earlier. That means they would need to stop making the previous iPhones sooner so then they will have a scarcity of current iPhones by a month or two. How does that help?
Because Black Friday sales always run smoothly.
It might work. Apple can say you can't get a numbered token until 10 am the previous day. And you need to come back by the time the store opens and line up by the numbers on launch day. But who is to say those line tokens won't be sold.
Folks wouldn't buy the phones if that were done. After all all they paid for it so who the hell is apple to deny them using it for even 2 hours.
Requiring all phones to be activated on an account at the times purchase is about as close as they might come but they would also need carriers to have systems to tell if someone is activating and canceling accounts over and over. Otherwise they just need to enforce their own rules. They need to require an Id and track them to make sure someone isnt buying more than the limits. Apple ID if nothing else. But one thst has been used before with full billing address etc. not set up just for buying s phone. They need to tell their managers if they know someone is a reseller refuse them. Many stores are small enough they recognize names and faces. And if someone wants to sue claiming Apple is being racist, let them. The truth will out when those so called victims have to prove their case. It's not racist that the bulk of the resellers happen to be Russian, Armenian, Israeli and Chinese.