You're full of rational and insightful thoughts today. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm completely serious. I agree with both your posts on this topic. A. Who cares who's buying the phones and if they are reselling them. B. Protect the integrity of the line to prevent chaos and unfairness.
LOL. Thanks. Yeah. I don't post often, but then find myself suddenly inspired to do so it would seem. hehe.
So you’re saying it’s not illegal to sell an iPhone 6 in China right now?
Is it illegal to own one? or just selling?
At least the interviewed person from China wanted to purchase a new phone for the bragging rights. Whether this is a honest young man or not, he didn't claim to flip the new product for a profit.
It may be illegal for a company to sell in China at this time, but not sure whether that includes all the personal transactions in China.
I really don't care about anyone flipping iPhones. Apple chose not to sell in China. If Chinese come to where Apple is selling then why is that bad?
Are we really supposed to believe that someone is entitled to buy a phone over another person for no other reason than geography? Sure there are people in line and I'm sure some where various forms of stinky, or rude non-English speaking or whatever.
Who cares?
They are paying a massive mark up to get the phone. Honestly if the time of someone is worth so little that they can sit in a line for days to get an iPhone should they even own an iPhone? One to two days of my time is worth the cost of the phone outright. I'd be paying double to own it if I stood in line.
In the meantime while everyone is rushing off to get the new iPhone 6 and 6+, I did my usual value proposition and bought a mint iPhone 5S/32 gig for $350. I'm a year late to the party but with over 50% depreciation for the first year of ownership, I'm not upset at all. If anyone, be they Chinese or some other nationality would like for me to buy their iPhone 6+/64gig for $400 a year from now, we can arrange that now as well.
Only for Apple. I'll state again, how many unlocked phones were very easy to find stateside a few years ago. None of those phones had FCC approval, but were easily found on the web, and in many legitimate businesses.
Because the Chinese government is exactly the same as the US government¡
Don't parade your utter abject ignorance of what real-world manufacturing, logistics, and marketing entail.
Don't parade your OWN ignorance by ignoring the plain and simple fact that if Apple started production sooner, they would have more units at launch. They don't. On purpose. The lack of inventory at launch is not a "problem" for them, per se.
The Apple Store I was at had hired security to monitor the lines and they laid down the "cutting" policy. We were also empowered to "snitch" on cutters. If you let people cut in line, all of those people would be banned and the person who let them cut would also be banned.
Don't parade your OWN ignorance by ignoring the plain and simple fact that if Apple started production sooner, they would have more units at launch. They don't. On purpose. The lack of inventory at launch is not a "problem" for them, per se.
Um... 'if Apple had started production sooner?' Wow. You're totally clueless." src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
• 1000 people in line at Apple Store The Grove.. One thing stood out... A disproportionate amount of Asian's (compared to other Apple on-sales) were in fact in line and were noticeably carrying and obsessing mainly on Samsung devices...hummmm Apple fans? Yeah sure..
• 3500 people in line Apple Store Brea / Orange County.. Same report.. Contingents of Asians line waiting many only packing Samsung devices..and paying with hoards of cash. Police were called. Anger raged. Extra security. Apple fans were angry and felt these groups were buying up their chances of fairly getting phones.
• Over 700 people in line Apple Store Victoria Gardens Rancho Cucamunga Calif. Same story...
While I directly have no idea what decent any of these line waiters were - anecdotally its a good guess many could have been Chinese and strictly grey market buyers - judging by their own actions.
To be very clear - nobody cares who or what ethnicity stands in line to buy phones - everybody at Apple Store The Grove just wanted a fair shot at getting a phone. There were paid line waiters (task rabbit) - same story, money was changing hands like crazy. But what also seemed obvious was that every culture present had someone buying or looking for grey market phones for just even eBay.
Apple is totally to blame here tho. What is NOT being reported is that Apples own "new" reservation system that was "supposed" to be working that morning of the on-sale and it was not.
It was supposed to guarantee a line waiter a phone and would hold your place in line via a reservation number and text you once your phone was available that day for purchase.
At The Grove store it was a disaster. If in fact the system wasn't working they had no PLAN B ready. What would normally be a three hour line wait turned into 17/18 hours for many line waiters while those with preorder pick up confirmations from 9/12 got priority and waited in a special line.
That was lame bc preorder people were not quoted a specific time so of course they all flooded Apple stores first thing that morning. The stores should have told them return times and that would have given line waiters a shot at available merchandise.
The fact that NO ONE from the Apple Store The Grove came to the line to hand out tickets like other launches - gave no wristbands etc - the bartering for a space in line got to a fever pitch and the opportunity for grey market scalpers flourished before our eyes..that was repeated at nearly every Los Angeles area Apple Store..
Apple Stores in Los Angeles totally failed to protect the integrity of these utterly massive lines to ensure fairness prevailed...
Also - those with preorders were stupidly allowed to change their minds and orders once in the store further diluting any way to grasp what the real stock was they had on hand..
This is what REALLY happened
I totally agree with what you are saying. I experienced the exact same problem at another store in L.A.in my case in Century City. I was number 10 in line spent a long time there and it was ridiculous the amount of Asians in line I would say a 70% of all people there. They did not spoke a word of english, they had big wads of cash and on top of that they wanted to cut in line and being aggressive with security.
On the other hand, it was Apple fault as there was no organization whatsoever from the Apple Store employees, just like you mention, tickets were never given to anyone waiting for hours and hours in line. Priority access was given to pre-orders taking additional phones from the walk-ins inventory not to mention that the process was ridiculously slow.
On the next big launch things need to change with the Asian mafia and with Apple's reservation system. They just can't have everyone picking up the phones at the same time. At least Best Buy had pick up times for all pre-orders.
There is nothing illegal about buying a phone. This would not be news if the hired buyers did not look and talk different from 'normal' Americans. But because they are, then thoughts of 'those farners are taking the stuff that should have been for us' creep in. We can't have a free enterprise system that excludes anyone who isn't 'Murcan. Shame on AI for pandering to baser instincts just to whore clicks.
Not to mention that there are still idiots who think that China is a "poor" country - no wonder they are buying everything they can get their hands at...didn't get your iPhone yet? Just wait in line, it will come one day.
I don't want Apple or anybody else protecting me for "our" sake. If I manage to get to a place and time where I am ready, willing and able to pay the full asking price, I expect an unlocked, fully functional iPhone. What I do with it is nobody's business.
I really don't care about anyone flipping iPhones. Apple chose not to sell in China. If Chinese come to where Apple is selling then why is that bad?
Are we really supposed to believe that someone is entitled to buy a phone over another person for no other reason than geography? Sure there are people in line and I'm sure some where various forms of stinky, or rude non-English speaking or whatever.
Who cares?
They are paying a massive mark up to get the phone. Honestly if the time of someone is worth so little that they can sit in a line for days to get an iPhone should they even own an iPhone? One to two days of my time is worth the cost of the phone outright. I'd be paying double to own it if I stood in line.
In the meantime while everyone is rushing off to get the new iPhone 6 and 6+, I did my usual value proposition and bought a mint iPhone 5S/32 gig for $350. I'm a year late to the party but with over 50% depreciation for the first year of ownership, I'm not upset at all. If anyone, be they Chinese or some other nationality would like for me to buy their iPhone 6+/64gig for $400 a year from now, we can arrange that now as well.
Don't you have access to news media? Apple didn't "choose" not to sell in China. They didn't have (still don't...) full regulatory approval.
I really don't care about anyone flipping iPhones. Apple chose not to sell in China. If Chinese come to where Apple is selling then why is that bad?
Are we really supposed to believe that someone is entitled to buy a phone over another person for no other reason than geography? Sure there are people in line and I'm sure some where various forms of stinky, or rude non-English speaking or whatever.
Who cares?
They are paying a massive mark up to get the phone. Honestly if the time of someone is worth so little that they can sit in a line for days to get an iPhone should they even own an iPhone? One to two days of my time is worth the cost of the phone outright. I'd be paying double to own it if I stood in line.
In the meantime while everyone is rushing off to get the new iPhone 6 and 6+, I did my usual value proposition and bought a mint iPhone 5S/32 gig for $350. I'm a year late to the party but with over 50% depreciation for the first year of ownership, I'm not upset at all. If anyone, be they Chinese or some other nationality would like for me to buy their iPhone 6+/64gig for $400 a year from now, we can arrange that now as well.
Don't you have access to news media? Apple didn't "choose" not to sell in China. They didn't have (still don't...) full regulatory approval.
They've sold in China before so if you REALLY think this is about regulatory approval not being granted because Apple didn't meet timelines with regard to completing tests or submitting paperwork then you need to wake up to the real world.
This was about favors, bribes and bluffs. Apple called the bluff. Millions of phones are being smuggled into to customers who desire them. Now the state will quickly and magically find a quick way to grant approval so as not to tick off the masses. If the demand hadn't been there then it would be no different from letting crops rot on the dock while awaiting inspection.
They've sold in China before so if you REALLY think this is about regulatory approval not being granted because Apple didn't meet timelines with regard to completing tests or submitting paperwork then you need to wake up to the real world.
This was about favors, bribes and bluffs. Apple called the bluff. Millions of phones are being smuggled into to customers who desire them. Now the state will quickly and magically find a quick way to grant approval so as not to tick off the masses. If the demand hadn't been there then it would be no different from letting crops rot on the dock while awaiting inspection.
Having difficulty reading? Your non sequitor response suggests so. Someone made the statement that Apple chose not to sell the iPhone 6 in China. I pointed out that they didn't have the necessary regulatory approval. Your snarky response veers off into speculation of the "why" of it all. I don't know "why" and neither do you. Fact check this. Did they have regulatory approval to sell the iPhone 6 on the 19th of September, 2014? The answer, of course, is NO. I never addressed "why".
They've sold in China before so if you REALLY think this is about regulatory approval not being granted because Apple didn't meet timelines with regard to completing tests or submitting paperwork then you need to wake up to the real world.
This was about favors, bribes and bluffs. Apple called the bluff. Millions of phones are being smuggled into to customers who desire them. Now the state will quickly and magically find a quick way to grant approval so as not to tick off the masses. If the demand hadn't been there then it would be no different from letting crops rot on the dock while awaiting inspection.
Having difficulty reading? Your non sequitor response suggests so. Someone made the statement that Apple chose not to sell the iPhone 6 in China. I pointed out that they didn't have the necessary regulatory approval. Your snarky response veers off into speculation of the "why" of it all. I don't know "why" and neither do you. Fact check this. Did they have regulatory approval to sell the iPhone 6 on the 19th of September, 2014? The answer, of course, is NO. I never addressed "why".
The regulatory response wasn't related to the product being subpar and certainly wasn't related to lack of effort by Apple with regard to dealing with the regulatory agency. Apple has experience in all these matters. Are you suggesting that Apple didn't submit paperwork, the phone to testing or some other aspect of approval? Are you suggesting it is Apple's fault they didn't get approval on time?
Apple doesn't need approval when they know the phones will get their anyway. It was the Chinese government that chose not to grant approval. Now I'm sure there was something Apple could have done to grease palms or move this refusal to grant permission. The permission wasn't related to anything Apple did though unless you want to suggest Apple was incompetent. Apple made the choice not to sell. The government made the choice not to grant permission to sell. Millions of iPhones have been sold and are entering China regardless so who won that argument? Apple did.
BTW, in a similar fashion Apple continues to keep billions in earnings off-shore because the United States government choose to double-tax the earnings. When the government wises up, Apple will bring that money back to the U.S.
All of it is a choice. Apple could choose to cave to the Chinese officials. They could choose to be double-taxed and bring certain profits into the U.S. They also choose not to sale on terms with which they don't agree knowing that the people that want the phones will find a way to get them
People made it sound like it was the fault of Apple that a bunch of people were standing in line to buy phones and give them immediately to someone who would ship them to China. I see no problem with it. Apple made the choice not to sell there and if the regulatory agency doesn't give Apple what they want with regard to terms, I hope Apple continues to refuse to sell there.
All this talk has me curious. Given that we're talking about America here, what difference does it make what people do with phones after they buy them? If I'm a deranged millionaire who wants to buy a bunch of phones and smash them with a hammer, does that mean Apple can't sell them to me? Are we going to start having "worthiness" checks to buy phones now?
I like your thinking.
For the next launches of new Apple products, they should give priority to those people who don't use any Google apps or services.
Comments
You're full of rational and insightful thoughts today. I know that sounds sarcastic, but I'm completely serious. I agree with both your posts on this topic. A. Who cares who's buying the phones and if they are reselling them. B. Protect the integrity of the line to prevent chaos and unfairness.
LOL. Thanks. Yeah. I don't post often, but then find myself suddenly inspired to do so it would seem.
So you’re saying it’s not illegal to sell an iPhone 6 in China right now?
Is it illegal to own one? or just selling?
At least the interviewed person from China wanted to purchase a new phone for the bragging rights. Whether this is a honest young man or not, he didn't claim to flip the new product for a profit.
It may be illegal for a company to sell in China at this time, but not sure whether that includes all the personal transactions in China.
I really don't care about anyone flipping iPhones. Apple chose not to sell in China. If Chinese come to where Apple is selling then why is that bad?
Are we really supposed to believe that someone is entitled to buy a phone over another person for no other reason than geography? Sure there are people in line and I'm sure some where various forms of stinky, or rude non-English speaking or whatever.
Who cares?
They are paying a massive mark up to get the phone. Honestly if the time of someone is worth so little that they can sit in a line for days to get an iPhone should they even own an iPhone? One to two days of my time is worth the cost of the phone outright. I'd be paying double to own it if I stood in line.
In the meantime while everyone is rushing off to get the new iPhone 6 and 6+, I did my usual value proposition and bought a mint iPhone 5S/32 gig for $350. I'm a year late to the party but with over 50% depreciation for the first year of ownership, I'm not upset at all. If anyone, be they Chinese or some other nationality would like for me to buy their iPhone 6+/64gig for $400 a year from now, we can arrange that now as well.
Because the Chinese government is exactly the same as the US government¡
Because the FCC regularly executes people¡
Just goes to show how 'illegal' it really is. Nobody's getting punished for it, so they're going to abuse it.
'Creating scarcity'?
Don't parade your utter abject ignorance of what real-world manufacturing, logistics, and marketing entail.
Don't parade your OWN ignorance by ignoring the plain and simple fact that if Apple started production sooner, they would have more units at launch. They don't. On purpose. The lack of inventory at launch is not a "problem" for them, per se.
The Apple Store I was at had hired security to monitor the lines and they laid down the "cutting" policy. We were also empowered to "snitch" on cutters. If you let people cut in line, all of those people would be banned and the person who let them cut would also be banned.
Don't parade your OWN ignorance by ignoring the plain and simple fact that if Apple started production sooner, they would have more units at launch. They don't. On purpose. The lack of inventory at launch is not a "problem" for them, per se.
Um... 'if Apple had started production sooner?' Wow. You're totally clueless.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Because the Chinese government is exactly the same as the US government¡
Because the FCC regularly executes people¡
Does the Chinese equivalent of the FCC execute people?
Here in Los Angeles...on Launch day...
• 1000 people in line at Apple Store The Grove.. One thing stood out... A disproportionate amount of Asian's (compared to other Apple on-sales) were in fact in line and were noticeably carrying and obsessing mainly on Samsung devices...hummmm Apple fans? Yeah sure..
• 3500 people in line Apple Store Brea / Orange County.. Same report.. Contingents of Asians line waiting many only packing Samsung devices..and paying with hoards of cash. Police were called. Anger raged. Extra security. Apple fans were angry and felt these groups were buying up their chances of fairly getting phones.
• Over 700 people in line Apple Store Victoria Gardens Rancho Cucamunga Calif. Same story...
While I directly have no idea what decent any of these line waiters were - anecdotally its a good guess many could have been Chinese and strictly grey market buyers - judging by their own actions.
To be very clear - nobody cares who or what ethnicity stands in line to buy phones - everybody at Apple Store The Grove just wanted a fair shot at getting a phone. There were paid line waiters (task rabbit) - same story, money was changing hands like crazy. But what also seemed obvious was that every culture present had someone buying or looking for grey market phones for just even eBay.
Apple is totally to blame here tho. What is NOT being reported is that Apples own "new" reservation system that was "supposed" to be working that morning of the on-sale and it was not.
It was supposed to guarantee a line waiter a phone and would hold your place in line via a reservation number and text you once your phone was available that day for purchase.
At The Grove store it was a disaster. If in fact the system wasn't working they had no PLAN B ready. What would normally be a three hour line wait turned into 17/18 hours for many line waiters while those with preorder pick up confirmations from 9/12 got priority and waited in a special line.
That was lame bc preorder people were not quoted a specific time so of course they all flooded Apple stores first thing that morning. The stores should have told them return times and that would have given line waiters a shot at available merchandise.
The fact that NO ONE from the Apple Store The Grove came to the line to hand out tickets like other launches - gave no wristbands etc - the bartering for a space in line got to a fever pitch and the opportunity for grey market scalpers flourished before our eyes..that was repeated at nearly every Los Angeles area Apple Store..
Apple Stores in Los Angeles totally failed to protect the integrity of these utterly massive lines to ensure fairness prevailed...
Also - those with preorders were stupidly allowed to change their minds and orders once in the store further diluting any way to grasp what the real stock was they had on hand..
This is what REALLY happened
I totally agree with what you are saying. I experienced the exact same problem at another store in L.A.in my case in Century City. I was number 10 in line spent a long time there and it was ridiculous the amount of Asians in line I would say a 70% of all people there. They did not spoke a word of english, they had big wads of cash and on top of that they wanted to cut in line and being aggressive with security.
On the other hand, it was Apple fault as there was no organization whatsoever from the Apple Store employees, just like you mention, tickets were never given to anyone waiting for hours and hours in line. Priority access was given to pre-orders taking additional phones from the walk-ins inventory not to mention that the process was ridiculously slow.
On the next big launch things need to change with the Asian mafia and with Apple's reservation system. They just can't have everyone picking up the phones at the same time. At least Best Buy had pick up times for all pre-orders.
There is nothing illegal about buying a phone. This would not be news if the hired buyers did not look and talk different from 'normal' Americans. But because they are, then thoughts of 'those farners are taking the stuff that should have been for us' creep in. We can't have a free enterprise system that excludes anyone who isn't 'Murcan. Shame on AI for pandering to baser instincts just to whore clicks.
Not to mention that there are still idiots who think that China is a "poor" country - no wonder they are buying everything they can get their hands at...didn't get your iPhone yet? Just wait in line, it will come one day.
I really don't care about anyone flipping iPhones. Apple chose not to sell in China. If Chinese come to where Apple is selling then why is that bad?
Are we really supposed to believe that someone is entitled to buy a phone over another person for no other reason than geography? Sure there are people in line and I'm sure some where various forms of stinky, or rude non-English speaking or whatever.
Who cares?
They are paying a massive mark up to get the phone. Honestly if the time of someone is worth so little that they can sit in a line for days to get an iPhone should they even own an iPhone? One to two days of my time is worth the cost of the phone outright. I'd be paying double to own it if I stood in line.
In the meantime while everyone is rushing off to get the new iPhone 6 and 6+, I did my usual value proposition and bought a mint iPhone 5S/32 gig for $350. I'm a year late to the party but with over 50% depreciation for the first year of ownership, I'm not upset at all. If anyone, be they Chinese or some other nationality would like for me to buy their iPhone 6+/64gig for $400 a year from now, we can arrange that now as well.
Don't you have access to news media? Apple didn't "choose" not to sell in China. They didn't have (still don't...) full regulatory approval.
I really don't care about anyone flipping iPhones. Apple chose not to sell in China. If Chinese come to where Apple is selling then why is that bad?
Are we really supposed to believe that someone is entitled to buy a phone over another person for no other reason than geography? Sure there are people in line and I'm sure some where various forms of stinky, or rude non-English speaking or whatever.
Who cares?
They are paying a massive mark up to get the phone. Honestly if the time of someone is worth so little that they can sit in a line for days to get an iPhone should they even own an iPhone? One to two days of my time is worth the cost of the phone outright. I'd be paying double to own it if I stood in line.
In the meantime while everyone is rushing off to get the new iPhone 6 and 6+, I did my usual value proposition and bought a mint iPhone 5S/32 gig for $350. I'm a year late to the party but with over 50% depreciation for the first year of ownership, I'm not upset at all. If anyone, be they Chinese or some other nationality would like for me to buy their iPhone 6+/64gig for $400 a year from now, we can arrange that now as well.
Don't you have access to news media? Apple didn't "choose" not to sell in China. They didn't have (still don't...) full regulatory approval.
They've sold in China before so if you REALLY think this is about regulatory approval not being granted because Apple didn't meet timelines with regard to completing tests or submitting paperwork then you need to wake up to the real world.
This was about favors, bribes and bluffs. Apple called the bluff. Millions of phones are being smuggled into to customers who desire them. Now the state will quickly and magically find a quick way to grant approval so as not to tick off the masses. If the demand hadn't been there then it would be no different from letting crops rot on the dock while awaiting inspection.
Clever........
They've sold in China before so if you REALLY think this is about regulatory approval not being granted because Apple didn't meet timelines with regard to completing tests or submitting paperwork then you need to wake up to the real world.
This was about favors, bribes and bluffs. Apple called the bluff. Millions of phones are being smuggled into to customers who desire them. Now the state will quickly and magically find a quick way to grant approval so as not to tick off the masses. If the demand hadn't been there then it would be no different from letting crops rot on the dock while awaiting inspection.
Having difficulty reading? Your non sequitor response suggests so. Someone made the statement that Apple chose not to sell the iPhone 6 in China. I pointed out that they didn't have the necessary regulatory approval. Your snarky response veers off into speculation of the "why" of it all. I don't know "why" and neither do you. Fact check this. Did they have regulatory approval to sell the iPhone 6 on the 19th of September, 2014? The answer, of course, is NO. I never addressed "why".
They've sold in China before so if you REALLY think this is about regulatory approval not being granted because Apple didn't meet timelines with regard to completing tests or submitting paperwork then you need to wake up to the real world.
This was about favors, bribes and bluffs. Apple called the bluff. Millions of phones are being smuggled into to customers who desire them. Now the state will quickly and magically find a quick way to grant approval so as not to tick off the masses. If the demand hadn't been there then it would be no different from letting crops rot on the dock while awaiting inspection.
Having difficulty reading? Your non sequitor response suggests so. Someone made the statement that Apple chose not to sell the iPhone 6 in China. I pointed out that they didn't have the necessary regulatory approval. Your snarky response veers off into speculation of the "why" of it all. I don't know "why" and neither do you. Fact check this. Did they have regulatory approval to sell the iPhone 6 on the 19th of September, 2014? The answer, of course, is NO. I never addressed "why".
The regulatory response wasn't related to the product being subpar and certainly wasn't related to lack of effort by Apple with regard to dealing with the regulatory agency. Apple has experience in all these matters. Are you suggesting that Apple didn't submit paperwork, the phone to testing or some other aspect of approval? Are you suggesting it is Apple's fault they didn't get approval on time?
Apple doesn't need approval when they know the phones will get their anyway. It was the Chinese government that chose not to grant approval. Now I'm sure there was something Apple could have done to grease palms or move this refusal to grant permission. The permission wasn't related to anything Apple did though unless you want to suggest Apple was incompetent. Apple made the choice not to sell. The government made the choice not to grant permission to sell. Millions of iPhones have been sold and are entering China regardless so who won that argument? Apple did.
BTW, in a similar fashion Apple continues to keep billions in earnings off-shore because the United States government choose to double-tax the earnings. When the government wises up, Apple will bring that money back to the U.S.
All of it is a choice. Apple could choose to cave to the Chinese officials. They could choose to be double-taxed and bring certain profits into the U.S. They also choose not to sale on terms with which they don't agree knowing that the people that want the phones will find a way to get them
People made it sound like it was the fault of Apple that a bunch of people were standing in line to buy phones and give them immediately to someone who would ship them to China. I see no problem with it. Apple made the choice not to sell there and if the regulatory agency doesn't give Apple what they want with regard to terms, I hope Apple continues to refuse to sell there.
In the meantime, buy stock in Hostess Twinkies.
All this talk has me curious. Given that we're talking about America here, what difference does it make what people do with phones after they buy them? If I'm a deranged millionaire who wants to buy a bunch of phones and smash them with a hammer, does that mean Apple can't sell them to me? Are we going to start having "worthiness" checks to buy phones now?
I like your thinking.
For the next launches of new Apple products, they should give priority to those people who don't use any Google apps or services.