Yes there is. It's called the law. Apple must have government approval to sell the iPhone in China. They don't at this point so they aren't.
Except Apple isn't selling them in China. It wasn't that long ago when many US citizens were purchasing unlocked phones from overseas. Those phones were not FCC approved, and weren't sold on the black/grey market. They were easily found in many legitimate retailers.
Why punish the common Chinese people for the sins of a few governmental and military fat cats?
There are over a billion people in China and most are good decent people. No reason for Apple not to sell product to these good people.
Ah, do it for all the good people. It's not about the money. . .
DuckDuckGo just isn't thinking straight. Censor their search results for those good people.
While companies like Twitter, DuckDuckGo, Google and DropBox are blocked and even Microsoft offices are raided Apple seems to be doing quite well there. Wonder what the trick is?
No its not necessarily legal to line up either. It depends on how you do it. NYC has laws that you have to obey if you want to line up for stuff. People were claiming that shipping these units to china was in fact legal when it is not. Why would you need to smuggle it back to China if what you're doing is legal. China has an approval process. Secondly, these helping someone commit a crime which is in the US illegal in and of itself.
I would hope you are more outraged at the family corruption of Samsung. I've been told by South Koreans that they not only control the government but also the food. I am sure buying Samsung products supports "real" illegal activities compared to Apple who just can't keep up with demand.
I would hope you are more outraged at the family corruption of Samsung. I've been told by South Koreans that they not only control the government but also the food. I am sure buying Samsung products supports "real" illegal activities compared to Apple who just can't keep up with demand.
I dont buy samsung branded products if I can help it.
I would hope you are more outraged at the family corruption of Samsung. I've been told by South Koreans that they not only control the government but also the food. I am sure buying Samsung products supports "real" illegal activities compared to Apple who just can't keep up with demand.
Everybody on this forum already knows that Samsung is a scummy company. What does that have to do with the topic?
The fact of the matter is that these scalpers and smugglers are also scummy people.
I never held Apple responsible for this as it's not their fault. I don't know where you got that from.
I know. That's the point. You hold these line sitters responsible and not Apple, despite Apple knowing a lot more about what is going on than the line sitters. Either all parties or no parties are responsible for the "pre-crime" of selling or buying CE on US soil before they are illegally smuggled out of the country to be sold on the black market in China. You can't have it both ways.
Why punish the common Chinese people for the sins of a few governmental and military fat cats?
There are over a billion people in China and most are good decent people. No reason for Apple not to sell product to these good people.
Ah, do it for all the good people. It's not about the money. . .
DuckDuckGo just isn't thinking straight. Censor their search results for those good people.
While companies like Twitter, DuckDuckGo, Google and DropBox are blocked and even Microsoft offices are raided Apple seems to be doing quite well there. Wonder what the trick is?
I wonder too. Maybe the companies you list should try a business model which depends upon selling devices rather than accumulating data about individuals and see if they do any better.
I definitely hold Apple responsible. They're not stupid, and they know what's going on.
As do I.
They can choose not to accept cash for a certain duration, which I think they had done in the past but it created issues. People could still make a purchase with a gift card that was purchased with cash or if you cancel that you need to have a way for people to be given a gift so they can purchase it themselves. Perhaps the solution is a special GC that can only be bought with a CC or Debit card so it's tied to a bank account.
Would the Chinese mafia want to then go to the trouble of setting up tens of thousands of bank accounts for their line sitters for these special GCs that can only be had when funded by a bank card or would they risk having one account source all the cards?
Now that Apple is working with all the banks perhaps they allow a maximum number of these special gift cards to be funded per account to help prevent this. If possible, this would allow, for example, a teenager who is using one he/she received at his bar/bat mitzvah use this special GC to go buy a new iPhone on their own.
I agree with that short documentary that this isn't good for Apple's business year after year even though many here seem to think that a sale is a sale.
PS: T-Mobile said I have to wait 1-8 weeks for my iPhone. Fine. I agree to that because I don't want to wait in line. Apple's website says 3-4 weeks before shipping. How long would I have to wait for an iPhone regulated for the US if there weren't boatloads being bought just to be sent back to China? I imagine that it would a lot less time.
They can choose not to accept cash for a certain duration, which I think they had done in the past but it created issues.
Yes, I remember that too.
I also remember that various PC media outlets began running a story about some "poor" woman who was unable to buy an iPad with cash, and I guess that she didn't have any other method of paying. Apple, probably afraid of bad publicity, relented shortly after the media began attacking them I believe. Practically anybody can get a debit card today, so I don't have any issues with the no-cash policy, and Apple should implement it again, in my opinion. It wont eliminate the problem completely, but it will certainly make things more difficult for the smugglers.
I think that the media should begin attacking Apple and running stories about the mass smuggling happening. Maybe that will cause Apple to cave, and change their policies. Apple obviously doesn't want bad press, but if that's what it'll take to get them to change, then good!
In one reported incident the handlers of the fake "buyers" were seen handing out AMEX cards as well as priority lists of phones and collecting both once the purchases were brought back out so credit cards are only a small deterrent to the really organized.
I would agree some sort of phasing in would be nice to reward people who are actually going to use their product. Perhaps sell to previously activated or newly established service accounts only for a day or two? Of course the media frenzy fueled by anti-Apple hate does push the company to in NO way restrict opening days volume so....
I remember when Apple got hammered by the NY Times etc. when their China store lines were small: small due to Apple having tried to avoid the previous riots by restricting the first issuance to pre-orders and reservations.
Make sure this coffee beans were legally imported and didn't use slave labour or you could go to jail for drinking conflict coffee.
I know. That's the point. You hold these line sitters responsible and not Apple, despite Apple knowing a lot more about what is going on than the line sitters. Either all parties or no parties are responsible for the "pre-crime" of selling or buying CE on US soil before they are illegally smuggled out of the country to be sold on the black market in China. You can't have it both ways.
Ok I can agree with that. That is a fair point. Then Apple is responsible for knowingly helping scalpers illegally import iPhones into China when they(Apple) has not obtained the necessary approvals to sell the new iPhones in China.
Its also illegal in China to practice Christianity.
This blanket statement is wrong. There are government-approved Christian/Catholic churches all throughout China. Same goes for mosques. I've seen them both in the Shanghai area and asked why they were there.
As long as you practice quietly at a government-approved church/mosque and don't publicly proselytize (no public recruitment or sermons), you are OK. If you are public about it, or the facility is not government-approved, then you are in trouble with the government.
I agree, there is no freedom of religion in China as in the US or Europe (China tries to make it look there is), but it is not 100% illegal.
Ok I can agree with that. That is a fair point. Then Apple is responsible for knowingly helping scalpers illegally import iPhones into China when they(Apple) has not obtained the necessary approvals to sell the new iPhones in China.
So why what is Apple's position here? It's the lesser of two evils as [@]Apple][[/@] states regarding honest shoppers who only have cash, Apple wants to break records more than make the best experience for legitimate US buyers, or something else?
In one reported incident the handlers of the fake "buyers" were seen handing out AMEX cards as well as priority lists of phones and collecting both once the purchases were brought back out so credit cards are only a small deterrent to the really organized.
I would agree some sort of phasing in would be nice to reward people who are actually going to use their product. Perhaps sell to previously activated or newly established service accounts only for a day or two? Of course the media frenzy fueled by anti-Apple hate does push the company to in NO way restrict opening days volume so....
I remember when Apple got hammered by the NY Times etc. when their China store lines were small: small due to Apple having tried to avoid the previous riots by restricting the first issuance to pre-orders and reservations.
What about priority buying for current iPhone customers, like Ferrari does with certain cars they sell that require that you've purchased x-many Ferraris in the past to be eligible.
I personally think that sounds elitist and the last I heard the number of new buyers is still about 50% so I don't think that would be a smart move.
What about priority buying for current iPhone customers, like Ferrari does with certain cars they sell that require that you've purchased x-many Ferraris in the past to be eligible.
I personally think that sounds elitist and the last I heard the number of new buyers is still about 50% so I don't think that would be a smart move.
I think doing the least amount possible to curb the problem is the best course of action here. IMO, that is in-store-pickups only for the first couple of weeks. You must have an in store pick up in order to be lined up at the Apple store in advance of the release. Apple store employees can sign those people up who chose to pay with cash by collecting their apple ids etc. Maybe limiting the lines to only 3 hours before opening hours might also help.
I don't have a HUGE problem with scalping. I just think it's gotten out of hand as the scale was massive and obvious over the last several years.... (at least in NYC it is).
Comments
This guy would beg to differ.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/us/04felony.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Except Apple isn't selling them in China. It wasn't that long ago when many US citizens were purchasing unlocked phones from overseas. Those phones were not FCC approved, and weren't sold on the black/grey market. They were easily found in many legitimate retailers.
DuckDuckGo just isn't thinking straight. Censor their search results for those good people.
While companies like Twitter, DuckDuckGo, Google and DropBox are blocked and even Microsoft offices are raided Apple seems to be doing quite well there. Wonder what the trick is?
No its not necessarily legal to line up either. It depends on how you do it. NYC has laws that you have to obey if you want to line up for stuff. People were claiming that shipping these units to china was in fact legal when it is not. Why would you need to smuggle it back to China if what you're doing is legal. China has an approval process. Secondly, these helping someone commit a crime which is in the US illegal in and of itself.
I would hope you are more outraged at the family corruption of Samsung. I've been told by South Koreans that they not only control the government but also the food. I am sure buying Samsung products supports "real" illegal activities compared to Apple who just can't keep up with demand.
Then I misread.
I would hope you are more outraged at the family corruption of Samsung. I've been told by South Koreans that they not only control the government but also the food. I am sure buying Samsung products supports "real" illegal activities compared to Apple who just can't keep up with demand.
I dont buy samsung branded products if I can help it.
I would hope you are more outraged at the family corruption of Samsung. I've been told by South Koreans that they not only control the government but also the food. I am sure buying Samsung products supports "real" illegal activities compared to Apple who just can't keep up with demand.
Everybody on this forum already knows that Samsung is a scummy company. What does that have to do with the topic?
The fact of the matter is that these scalpers and smugglers are also scummy people.
Make sure this coffee beans were legally imported and didn't use slave labour or you could go to jail for drinking conflict coffee.
I know. That's the point. You hold these line sitters responsible and not Apple, despite Apple knowing a lot more about what is going on than the line sitters. Either all parties or no parties are responsible for the "pre-crime" of selling or buying CE on US soil before they are illegally smuggled out of the country to be sold on the black market in China. You can't have it both ways.
I wonder too. Maybe the companies you list should try a business model which depends upon selling devices rather than accumulating data about individuals and see if they do any better.
You hold these line sitters responsible and not Apple, despite Apple knowing a lot more about what is going on than the line sitters.
I definitely hold Apple responsible. They're not stupid, and they know what's going on.
As do I.
They can choose not to accept cash for a certain duration, which I think they had done in the past but it created issues. People could still make a purchase with a gift card that was purchased with cash or if you cancel that you need to have a way for people to be given a gift so they can purchase it themselves. Perhaps the solution is a special GC that can only be bought with a CC or Debit card so it's tied to a bank account.
Would the Chinese mafia want to then go to the trouble of setting up tens of thousands of bank accounts for their line sitters for these special GCs that can only be had when funded by a bank card or would they risk having one account source all the cards?
Now that Apple is working with all the banks perhaps they allow a maximum number of these special gift cards to be funded per account to help prevent this. If possible, this would allow, for example, a teenager who is using one he/she received at his bar/bat mitzvah use this special GC to go buy a new iPhone on their own.
I agree with that short documentary that this isn't good for Apple's business year after year even though many here seem to think that a sale is a sale.
PS: T-Mobile said I have to wait 1-8 weeks for my iPhone. Fine. I agree to that because I don't want to wait in line. Apple's website says 3-4 weeks before shipping. How long would I have to wait for an iPhone regulated for the US if there weren't boatloads being bought just to be sent back to China? I imagine that it would a lot less time.
They can choose not to accept cash for a certain duration, which I think they had done in the past but it created issues.
Yes, I remember that too.
I also remember that various PC media outlets began running a story about some "poor" woman who was unable to buy an iPad with cash, and I guess that she didn't have any other method of paying. Apple, probably afraid of bad publicity, relented shortly after the media began attacking them I believe. Practically anybody can get a debit card today, so I don't have any issues with the no-cash policy, and Apple should implement it again, in my opinion. It wont eliminate the problem completely, but it will certainly make things more difficult for the smugglers.
I think that the media should begin attacking Apple and running stories about the mass smuggling happening. Maybe that will cause Apple to cave, and change their policies. Apple obviously doesn't want bad press, but if that's what it'll take to get them to change, then good!
In one reported incident the handlers of the fake "buyers" were seen handing out AMEX cards as well as priority lists of phones and collecting both once the purchases were brought back out so credit cards are only a small deterrent to the really organized.
I would agree some sort of phasing in would be nice to reward people who are actually going to use their product. Perhaps sell to previously activated or newly established service accounts only for a day or two? Of course the media frenzy fueled by anti-Apple hate does push the company to in NO way restrict opening days volume so....
I remember when Apple got hammered by the NY Times etc. when their China store lines were small: small due to Apple having tried to avoid the previous riots by restricting the first issuance to pre-orders and reservations.
Make sure this coffee beans were legally imported and didn't use slave labour or you could go to jail for drinking conflict coffee.
I know. That's the point. You hold these line sitters responsible and not Apple, despite Apple knowing a lot more about what is going on than the line sitters. Either all parties or no parties are responsible for the "pre-crime" of selling or buying CE on US soil before they are illegally smuggled out of the country to be sold on the black market in China. You can't have it both ways.
Ok I can agree with that. That is a fair point. Then Apple is responsible for knowingly helping scalpers illegally import iPhones into China when they(Apple) has not obtained the necessary approvals to sell the new iPhones in China.
Its also illegal in China to practice Christianity.
This blanket statement is wrong. There are government-approved Christian/Catholic churches all throughout China. Same goes for mosques. I've seen them both in the Shanghai area and asked why they were there.
As long as you practice quietly at a government-approved church/mosque and don't publicly proselytize (no public recruitment or sermons), you are OK. If you are public about it, or the facility is not government-approved, then you are in trouble with the government.
I agree, there is no freedom of religion in China as in the US or Europe (China tries to make it look there is), but it is not 100% illegal.
So why what is Apple's position here? It's the lesser of two evils as [@]Apple][[/@] states regarding honest shoppers who only have cash, Apple wants to break records more than make the best experience for legitimate US buyers, or something else?
What about priority buying for current iPhone customers, like Ferrari does with certain cars they sell that require that you've purchased x-many Ferraris in the past to be eligible.
I personally think that sounds elitist and the last I heard the number of new buyers is still about 50% so I don't think that would be a smart move.
What about priority buying for current iPhone customers, like Ferrari does with certain cars they sell that require that you've purchased x-many Ferraris in the past to be eligible.
I personally think that sounds elitist and the last I heard the number of new buyers is still about 50% so I don't think that would be a smart move.
I think doing the least amount possible to curb the problem is the best course of action here. IMO, that is in-store-pickups only for the first couple of weeks. You must have an in store pick up in order to be lined up at the Apple store in advance of the release. Apple store employees can sign those people up who chose to pay with cash by collecting their apple ids etc. Maybe limiting the lines to only 3 hours before opening hours might also help.
I don't have a HUGE problem with scalping. I just think it's gotten out of hand as the scale was massive and obvious over the last several years.... (at least in NYC it is).