U.S. Attorney General voices concern over Apple's iOS 8 security features

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 82
    chasm wrote: »
    The director of the FBI and now the Attorney General of the United States are either stupid or flat-out lying. Forensic decryption tools have existed and continue to exist, and are in use on a routine basis. This may come as a shock, but some criminals are kind of smart and already use encryption to protect themselves. In fact, Apple has offered HD encryption for over a decade. Is your mind blown yet?

    What this move by Apple and now others does is make it harder for police/government to ABUSE your rights. It doesn't stop them from getting to your data if they have good reason to believe they need it. They'll use exactly the same tools they do now. It's just that from now on they'll actually have to need a good reason and a real determination to do the work necessary to justify using them.

    Oh boo hoo hoo.

    Without a decryption key, forensic tools cannot be used to find digital evidence. Even with the key, searching encrypted data can be tricky and time consuming.
  • Reply 22 of 82
    manictosh wrote: »
    Can't they just waterboard the suspect until he gives up the pass code to his phone?

    I hate when they do that. :lol:
  • Reply 23 of 82
    jameskatt2 wrote: »
    The US Constitution's 5th Amendment says that you have a right to remain silent. You don't have to incriminate yourself.

    The iPhone's encryption is the expression of this right. Period.

    Anyone using the iPhone's encryption automatically is making a statement of their 5th amendment rights.

    When we give up our right to privacy, we give up the right to free expression, freedom of religion, right to peaceful assembly, and right to not self-incriminate. We even give up (the one that I am not entirely a fan of, but it is what it is) our second amendment rights.
  • Reply 24 of 82
    We even give up (the one that I am not entirely a fan of, but it is what it is) our second amendment rights.

    I wouldn't like to have to wear long sleeve shirts all the time, so I'm all for the right to bare arms. ;)
  • Reply 25 of 82
    The US's CALEA act is worth review.  This act of congress was passed in the 1994 and made stronger all during the Clinton Administration.  (Apple Director, Al Gore probably knows about this law.) 

    This act of congress is already in place and there's possibly an applicable case law worth review.  Back in the late 1990s, one local US telephone company, called "Qwest" was unable to provide lawful intercept capability to the Government under the 1994 act of congress.

    Most likely, the reason for secrecy was related to financial crimes he was committing.  Ultimately, the CEO of the company was found guilty, and served time in jail.  As for the company, well, following a change in leadership, Qwest became compliant with the US law. 

    When your a company like Apple, and your company is based on a culture of secrecy, including mistrust of the US Government, and willful and wanton desire to forgo paying US taxes, it's certainly worth additional study.

    In that particular case, the company's CEO is, and always will be, a convicted felon who was found guilty by a layperson jury, not the government.   Time Magazing ranked the CEO #5 in a top-ten list of the "Most crooked CEOs of All Time".

    It seems Apple is speeding down the same path.

    Like Apple, I have a willful and wanton desire to forgo paying taxes and take every deduction, credit, etc. that I am allowed to take and only pay what I am legally required to pay.

    Oh, and based on the actions of our government over the last several years, we should all harbor some mistrust regarding its intentions as it pertains to our privacy among other things.
  • Reply 26 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Manictosh View Post





    Like Apple, I have a willful and wanton desire to forgo paying taxes and take every deduction, credit, etc. that I am allowed to take and only pay what I am legally required to pay.



    Oh, and based on the actions of our government over the last several years, we should all harbor some mistrust regarding its intentions as it pertains to our privacy among other things.

     

    It's a law already on the books; and requires both service providers as well as hardware manufacturers to comply.  I'm sorry to rain on your parade.   If there's an issue, I suppose you could write a letter, to the Apple Director asking why he supported the President in that legislation.  The address is:

     

    Al Gore, Apple Director

    1 Infinite Loop

    Cupertino, CA 95014

  • Reply 27 of 82
    idreyidrey Posts: 640member
    So the government wants to fight terrorism by feeding terror to its own people! Doesn't that makes the government terrorist? People are so full of s... What is worst is that there are people so ignorant that fall for this kind of things. "Think of the children" yeah well if is my kid he'll have and i device and i will track him my self!
  • Reply 28 of 82
    Coming Soon! The greatest techno thriller of the year! The FBI Director announces to the world a communication device that defies being hacked. Later the Attorney General of the United States calls the device a threat to security. Criminals and terrorist by the thousands buy the device knowing it can not be hacked and their information is secure. Can you guess what happens next?

    People who "know" the government lies to its citizens suddenly believes the government is telling the truth. THINK PEOPLE! Try reading all Tom Clancy, Dale Brown, and Dan Brown novels, then see if truth is stranger than fiction. If it still bothers you, move to Green Bank.
  • Reply 29 of 82
    Too secure? So let me get this straight...you care to define "freedom" and "security" as...

    "Holding a gun at everyone on earth and calling it protection"...

    Stolen from Captain America: The Winter Soldier. I knew that quote would come in handy...all the time now. Haha
  • Reply 30 of 82

    Unfortunately if you allow for access by the FBI then you are also leaving the door open for NSA, CIA, Mafia, Russian hackers, virus and trojans, etc, etc, etc.

     

    The SAME technology that protects phones from the FBI protects it from *ALL* of the bad guys out there.

     

    Fraud, theft are drastically more expensive to western society even granting that we want to protect kids. 

  • Reply 31 of 82
    If our children get kidnapped then it will simply confirm that the human race is a capable of horrible things. NO MATTER HOW MUCH THAT HURTS: DO NOT MAKE A POLICE STATE.

    DONT GIVE ME CHILD KIDNAPPING AS A REASON TO DESTROY FREEDOM.

    Scanning images from the brain itself is already being done at a rudimentary level... The government WILL want access to that the same way they do now for your phone.
  • Reply 32 of 82
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

     

    The US's CALEA act is worth review.  This act of congress was passed in the 1994 and made stronger all during the Clinton Administration.  (Apple Director, Al Gore probably knows about this law.) 

     

    This act of congress is already in place and there's possibly an applicable case law worth review.  Back in the late 1990s, one local US telephone company, called "Qwest" was unable to provide lawful intercept capability to the Government under the 1994 act of congress.

     

    Most likely, the reason for secrecy was related to financial crimes he was committing.  Ultimately, the CEO of the company was found guilty, and served time in jail.  As for the company, well, following a change in leadership, Qwest became compliant with the US law. 

     

    When your a company like Apple, and your company is based on a culture of secrecy, including mistrust of the US Government, and willful and wanton desire to forgo paying US taxes, it's certainly worth additional study.

     

    In that particular case, the company's CEO is, and always will be, a convicted felon who was found guilty by a layperson jury, not the government.   Time Magazing ranked the CEO #5 in a top-ten list of the "Most crooked CEOs of All Time".

     

    It seems Apple is speeding down the same path.


     

    Interesting story, but the CEO "was found guilty by a layperson jury" of insider trading.  Nothing at all to do with CALEA.  Yes, Apple could (theoretically) be forced to change their encryption practices, but a) that would be excellent PR for Apple, and b) this doesn't put Cook or any senior officers at risk of a criminal conviction.  It's all good.

  • Reply 33 of 82
    Holder can suck on it. The tyrant wants to snoop on our phones.
  • Reply 34 of 82
    The don't have the combination for my safe. Should that be illegal?
  • Reply 35 of 82
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member

    Who cares what the worst AG in history thinks?

  • Reply 36 of 82

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post

     

     

    It's a law already on the books; and requires both service providers as well as hardware manufacturers to comply.  I'm sorry to rain on your parade.   If there's an issue, I suppose you could write a letter, to the Apple Director asking why he supported the President in that legislation.  The address is:

     

    Al Gore, Apple Director

    1 Infinite Loop

    Cupertino, CA 95014


     

    Thanks for the snarky response and for including an address where I can contact Al Gore regarding a law that does not apply to Apple.  You're not raining on my parade by any means and you clearly missed the point I was making.  You insinuated that Apple deserved to be looked at more carefully because it is based on a culture of secrecy, mistrusts the U.S. government, and has a willful and wanton desire to forgo paying U.S. taxes.  Since you missed the point I was making, I'll try again - I, like Apple, only pay the amount of tax that I am required to pay by law.  Apple does not illegally forgo paying U.S. tax.  It pays what it is required to pay even though some in the government think it should pay more and don't like the fact that Apple is legally able to keep its foreign earnings overseas.  This deprives the government of additional revenue which governments hate but is not illegal.  To sum up, there is nothing wrong with a company mistrusting the government, Apple does nothing illegal when it comes to paying its taxes, and your view that Apple is speeding down a path similar to the CEO of Qwest because of these incorrect assertions you make is simply absurd.

     

    As for CALEA, it doesn't apply to Apple.  You might want to read the act again (or actually read it for the first time) - Apple is not a telecommunications carrier.  Your reference to hardware manufacturers has to do with hardware used by a telecom to run its network.  I'd give you a link to the text of the act, but since you seem to be proficient at finding information online (you did find the address for Al Gore so I could write him a letter), you should have no trouble finding it.

  • Reply 37 of 82

    In time sensitive cases, such as kidnappings, an iPhone's data could help find and save the lives of potential victims, Holder said

     

    Isn't this after the fact?

     

    ?Kind of funny to think that the law enforcement have to rely on data from a phone to save a victim and not the kidnapper himself.

     

    ?

  • Reply 38 of 82
    The US's CALEA act is worth review.  This act of congress was passed in the 1994 and made stronger all during the Clinton Administration.  (Apple Director, Al Gore probably knows about this law.) 

    This act of congress is already in place and there's possibly an applicable case law worth review.  Back in the late 1990s, one local US telephone company, called "Qwest" was unable to provide lawful intercept capability to the Government under the 1994 act of congress.

    Most likely, the reason for secrecy was related to financial crimes he was committing.  Ultimately, the CEO of the company was found guilty, and served time in jail.  As for the company, well, following a change in leadership, Qwest became compliant with the US law. 

    When your a company like Apple, and your company is based on a culture of secrecy, including mistrust of the US Government, and willful and wanton desire to forgo paying US taxes, it's certainly worth additional study.

    In that particular case, the company's CEO is, and always will be, a convicted felon who was found guilty by a layperson jury, not the government.   Time Magazing ranked the CEO #5 in a top-ten list of the "Most crooked CEOs of All Time".

    It seems Apple is speeding down the same path.

    You're off your rocker.
  • Reply 39 of 82
    adamc wrote: »
    In time sensitive cases, such as kidnappings, an iPhone's data could help find and save the lives of potential victims, Holder said

    Isn't this after the fact?

    ?Kind of funny to think that the law enforcement have to rely on data from a phone to save a victim and not the kidnapper himself.

    ?

    Those theoretical 'ticking clock' scenarios have almost NEVER happened. The acts of violence and the subsequent Gestapo-style pursuit tactics in Boston being a rare exception.
  • Reply 40 of 82
    adamc wrote: »
    In time sensitive cases, such as kidnappings, an iPhone's data could help find and save the lives of potential victims, Holder said

    Isn't this after the fact?

    ?Kind of funny to think that the law enforcement have to rely on data from a phone to save a victim and not the kidnapper himself.

    ?

    Data on the phone isn't relevant if you have 'find my iPhone' and 'find my friends', it's also possible to find it via cell tower information (the normal way to find a phone).
    So it is just a 'gelegenheids argument' (as we say in Dutch).
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