Samsung wins contract to build 14-nanometer Apple 'A9' chips - report

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 98
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 321member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post



    Baloney.



    Why is AI giving this story prominence? Two narratives her. First, that Samsung is still producing some of the A8. Do you really believe that is this were true, such device would not have miraculously found its way to the tear down folks.



    Second, there is no proof that apple has an agreement for the A9. Parse wat the Samsung exec said, 'once' is the keyword. Wishful thinking. The way this is being pusher is the implication that Samsung will be privy to apple's plans and given their proclivity at imitation, android will still be relevant.



    Gebbels will be proud. Repeat a fantasy over and over....



    Exactly! Nebulous quotes from samsung officially in an attempt to inflate future expectations of their sagging profits and tanking (stock) value. (because if he made actual verifiable statements (lying about present connections or contracts with apple) he would be breaking the law)

     

    Next we have ZD quoting anonymous "informed sources" as to the fact that samsung is co-producing a minor share of Apple's A8. Again if samsung were producing ANY of the current A8's samsung people would almost certainly be shouting it from the rooftops in an effort to raise samsung's expectations. They aren't, which leaves me to conclude they they likely aren't producing any.

    Samsung dug their own grave vis–à–vis Apple. Now they have no choice but to reap the consequences of their actions.

  • Reply 22 of 98
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    PS: How is it @sog35 gets banned but not @pazuzu when only one of those people constantly trolls this forum.

     

    sog has a habit of insulting people. I'm sure he has been warned repeatedly.

     

    pazuzu skirts the rules by not insulting people. Trolling, apparently, is okay... but, even then, I'm sure there are guidelines.

  • Reply 23 of 98
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    rogifan wrote: »
    Why was [@]sog35[/@] banned?

    Too many infractions of course.
  • Reply 24 of 98
    ksecksec Posts: 1,569member
    Quote:


     Apple is not on the bleeding edge of process technologies


    Oh hell yes they are. The most advance SoC Node ( excluding Intel ) are coming from 20nm TSMC and Apple are using the majority of it.

     

    I still dont believe the Samsung A8 Story. Yes Apple can scale and make SoC in both Fabs. But it is not like the the manufacturing of SoC are the bottleneck of iPhone Production. Assuming even at 65% yield rate TSMC could produce at least 20M SoC for Apple per month. And I think with Apple's huge volume the yield should be better then that from start.    

     

    The only reason Apple would use Samsung is price. Not only on 14nm wafers, but on LPDDR4, I think Apple wanted 2GB Memory but to fit its power requirement on iPhone they would need LPDDR4, and that is expensive.

  • Reply 25 of 98
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    mjtomlin wrote: »

    Is your iPhone 6 Plus not fast enough or sturdy enough for you?

    I'm on the "S" cycle and refuse to pay a premium for a device that gets upgraded next year.
  • Reply 26 of 98
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    sog has a habit of insulting people. I'm sure he has been warned repeatedly.

    pazuzu skirts the rules by not insulting people. Trolling, apparently, is okay... but, even then, I'm sure there are guidelines.

    Except I'm not trolling. I have plenty of Apple products and LUV them. I just call it like it is and he refuses to admit he's ever wrong as I've proven him multiple times. And that's why he wants me gone.
  • Reply 27 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

     

    Okay, so what is the current art in 64 bit processors besides Apple's offering? 


     

    nVidia's Tegra K1 "Denver" will be in Android phones this year. 28nm.

     

    Parker 16nm coming next year?

  • Reply 28 of 98
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,210member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post



    Baloney.



    Why is AI giving this story prominence? Two narratives her. First, that Samsung is still producing some of the A8. Do you really believe that is this were true, such device would not have miraculously found its way to the tear down folks.



    Second, there is no proof that apple has an agreement for the A9. Parse wat the Samsung exec said, 'once' is the keyword. Wishful thinking. The way this is being pusher is the implication that Samsung will be privy to apple's plans and given their proclivity at imitation, android will still be relevant.



    Gebbels will be proud. Repeat a fantasy over and over....

    The iPhone is not the only device that will have an A8. Samsung could be producing A8s for the iPad. In fact, it would make a lot more sense to split the work in that way, since TSMC and Samsung are unlikely to produce chips with exactly the same power and thermal characteristics -- Apple wouldn't want that kind of heterogeneity across units of the same type. 

     

    I actually think this story has a lot of credibility. Apple is operating at a scale where it can afford to have two foundries, and clearly there's a huge advantage to doing that (if you have the scale to support it). It could be that for the next few years Apple will have TSMC and Samsung compete on yields and performance/watt, with the winner getting the iPhone and the loser getting the iPad. 

  • Reply 29 of 98

    Whoever has the better process technology and can deliver sooner is who Apple should be dealing with. I don't care if it's TSMC or Samsung Semiconductor, all I care about is how awesome the A9 processor will be.

     

    Must feel strange for Samsung Mobile, though. Samsung Semi making processors for Apple that are superior to the ones they make for themselves.

  • Reply 30 of 98
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post

     

     

    I've no idea if true or not, but I have read from multiple sources (CNN to Forbes to Wikipedia) that Samsung is still producing 40% of A8 Chips...  Seems ludicrous with all of Apple's resources ($) that they are still tapping it's biggest competitor for components.  Can they not manufacture their own chip designs?


     

    Apple is not in the fabrication business, so it doesn't make sense for them to fabricate their own - the volume just isn't there due to the fact that they update their designs every year and have a limited product line. It's much more cost effective to outsource then it would be to retool their own plants. If the volume or duration of each SoC design increases then, it might make more sense.

     

    Samsung can afford to make their own, because they also build chips for others as well, so they have the volume necessary to sustain such a business.

     

    Apple has the capacity to do pretty much anything and everything, if they so desired, but it just doesn't make sense financially.

  • Reply 31 of 98
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member

    One hand washes the other. The Galaxy Phone only exists to further iPhone, iPad and Mac chip orders from Apple. I've learned to not hate on Samsung so much. I'm just not into their own phones which are basically lab rat phones that people buy. Basically you get beta software and hardware that is ultimately tested for use on a future iPhone. 

  • Reply 32 of 98
    Why keep giving these jackholes the keys to the kingdom?
  • Reply 33 of 98
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

     

    Whoever has the better process technology and can deliver sooner is who Apple should be dealing with. I don't care if it's TSMC or Samsung Semiconductor, all I care about is how awesome the A9 processor will be.

     

    Must feel strange for Samsung Mobile, though. Samsung Semi making processors for Apple that are superior to the ones they make for themselves.


     

    Happens a lot. Think about the guys who built your house.

  • Reply 34 of 98
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post





    I'm on the "S" cycle and refuse to pay a premium for a device that gets upgraded next year.

     

    You'll wait forever.

  • Reply 35 of 98
    v900v900 Posts: 101member
    rcfa wrote: »
    Samsung producing chips doesn't mean they know what Apple is up to, for that they would have to reverse engineer a phone and software from a chip.
    The chip doesn't have that many secrets: RAM, GPU and ARM architecture are all third party contributions.

    Well no. You don't need to reverse engineer. Just by seeing the floor plan, you'll get a good idea of the performance range of the CPU and GPU. And know in which direction Apple will be going in a year or two.

    Think of the 64bit A7 CPU. Don't you think that Apples competitors would have loved to know that in advance?

    And when Samsung is building your CPUs it goes a lot further than them just seeing the layout of the CPU.

    Apple doesn't just give them a CAD file and say "Here you go, build 60 million of these please!" It's a collaborative effort. Designing and producing a chip works the best that way. (This is one of the reasons Intel has such a huge lead over AMD and the most advanced process in the industry...)

    Samsung engineers will spend hundred of hours in Cupertino, and Apples people will more or less live at Samsungs fab for weeks at a time.

    They'll fab dozens of prototypes, tweak the design and process together, and by the end of it, some of Samsungs engineers will know the design almost as close as Apples people.

    Having said that, so far Samsungs fab division has been pretty good at having firewalls between themselves and the phone-engineers. (As far as we know, anyways. At least it doesn't seem like they were expecting the 64bit A7).

    But it's not an ideal situation, and COULD be a cause for concern.
  • Reply 36 of 98
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by v900 View Post





    Well no. You don't need to reverse engineer. Just by seeing the floor plan, you'll get a good idea of the performance range of the CPU and GPU. And know in which direction Apple will be going in a year or two.



    Think of the 64bit A7 CPU. Don't you think that Apples competitors would have loved to know that in advance?



    And when Samsung is building your CPUs it goes a lot further than them just seeing the layout of the CPU.



    Apple doesn't just give them a CAD file and say "Here you go, build 60 million of these please!" It's a collaborative effort. Designing and producing a chip works the best that way. (This is one of the reasons Intel has such a huge lead over AMD and the most advanced process in the industry...)



    Samsung engineers will spend hundred of hours in Cupertino, and Apples people will more or less live at Samsungs fab for weeks at a time.



    They'll fab dozens of prototypes, tweak the design and process together, and by the end of it, some of Samsungs engineers will know the design almost as close as Apples people.



    Having said that, so far Samsungs fab division has been pretty good at having firewalls between themselves and the phone-engineers. (As far as we know, anyways. At least it doesn't seem like they were expecting the 64bit A7).



    But it's not an ideal situation, and COULD be a cause for concern.

     

    I wonder if Intel would eventually start producting chips for Apple. That would be the only real way to totally get away from Samsung since no one right now has enough volume to fill in Apple's orders.

  • Reply 37 of 98
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Delusional are we?
    fjose1929 wrote: »
    Baloney.

    Why is AI giving this story prominence?
    Probably because there is some truth to it! By the way you can't expect such stories to spill all the beans, contracts with companies like Apple require a certain amount of confidentiality.

    Two narratives her. First, that Samsung is still producing some of the A8. Do you really believe that is this were true, such device would not have miraculously found its way to the tear down folks.
    Actually I would suspec that the tear down folks would at best tear down one or two machines and call it a day. The fact that they have not see a Samsung chip means nothing. Im certain however that Samsung is still producing chips for Apple.
    Second, there is no proof that apple has an agreement for the A9.
    Of course not, nobody at Samsung would want to break any governing NDA. However you can be certain that Apple is already working on the A9 and probably is developing that chip against several processes.
    Parse wat the Samsung exec said, 'once' is the keyword. Wishful thinking. The way this is being pusher is the implication that Samsung will be privy to apple's plans and given their proclivity at imitation, android will still be relevant.
    Really! apple is on their second generation 64 bit chip, think about that a bit. Also consider where Samsung is getting its chips for the majority of the cell phones it sells. In a nut shell the baloney is pouring from your fingers.
    Gebbels will be proud. Repeat a fantasy over and over....

    I doubt it is total fantasy. How much is accurately reported is another matter.
  • Reply 38 of 98
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    iqatedo wrote: »
    Okay, so what is the current art in 64 bit processors besides Apple's offering? I've lost sight of what other phone manufacturers are offering currently and into the near future, considering that Apple is now second generation 64 bit shipped. Is Samsung shipping anything from a 14 nm die?

    What people don't seem to grasp is that the majority of Samsungs phones ship with chips from Qualcomm. The gulf between the two divisions at Samsung is pretty massive.
  • Reply 39 of 98
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    nVidia's Tegra K1 "Denver" will be in Android phones this year. 28nm.

     

    Parker 16nm coming next year?


     

    Right... And what kind of ridiculous power usage does this mess have. You can cook food on Nvidia'S current powered Tablets and as for the power it use.. Oh my god!

     

    As for the future, we'll see. 

  • Reply 40 of 98
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    Too many infractions of course.

     

    The problem with Huddler bans is you’re not informed of the nature of the ban.

     

    You don’t know if it’s a one day, three day, week, month, or permanent. You just have to wait and find out. And even if a mod sends you a PM regarding it, you can’t get to your PMs.

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