Samsung wins contract to build 14-nanometer Apple 'A9' chips - report

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 98
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    ralphmouth wrote: »
    If Apple is following Intel's model(which is likely according to Anandtech), the A9 next year will be a whole new architecture (tock) and not a process shrink (tick). I'm sure it is extremely tough to do both at the same time even if Apple has some of the best chip designers in the world. 

    A new design would target a new process, it really isn't t a big deal.
  • Reply 42 of 98
    The problem with Huddler bans is you’re not informed of the nature of the ban.

    You don’t know if it’s a one day, three day, week, month, or permanent. You just have to wait and find out. And even if a mod sends you a PM regarding it, you can’t get to your PMs.

    I think Duddler sends you an email containing the cc of your PM.
  • Reply 43 of 98
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,242member

    It seems to me that Samsung and Global Foundries were rumored for the the A9 and they were syncing their processes to court Apple.

     

    Anybody remember that rumor?

     

    Here's GF's PDF on the collaboration.

     

    http://globalfoundries.com/docs/default-source/PDF/samsung-globalfoundries-14nm-collaboration---final.pdf?sfvrsn=2

     

    My guess is that Apple will now have three foundries at its disposal, though not necessarily all  for each generation. Considering that they get two and three years out of a processor, the overlap among foundries would be natural.

  • Reply 44 of 98
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    The problem with Huddler bans is you’re not informed of the nature of the ban.

    You don’t know if it’s a one day, three day, week, month, or permanent. You just have to wait and find out. And even if a mod sends you a PM regarding it, you can’t get to your PMs.

    You are told of your infractions, and it lists the offending post, but it's deleted so you don't know what it that was you wrote. My experience has been that the duration of the ban increases. I'd say [@]sog35[/@] got no more than a 3 day ban. The mods should at the very least send out a email detailing why the poster was banned.
  • Reply 45 of 98
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    You'll wait forever.

    If I had a useless device I would agree but I have a 5S which does everything I need for now and beautifully. I'm more interested in a new Kindle Voyager actually with HDEInk and I will most likely get Black Friday. And a new Apple TV without question.
  • Reply 46 of 98
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

    I think Duddler sends you an email containing the cc of your PM.



    I never got one. That must be new.

  • Reply 47 of 98
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,140member

    Wait what? A8 just jumped a fab process, are you sure A9 will be 14nm? A10 is where I would expect that. 

  • Reply 48 of 98
    tipoo wrote: »
    Wait what? A8 just jumped a fab process, are you sure A9 will be 14nm? A10 is where I would expect that. 

    Yeah, when the A9 comes out and it's still 20nm, while everybody else is on 28, Apple will be ahead of them, but somehow still behind.

    "Epic Fail! LOL!! 2014 technology!" /Fandroids
  • Reply 49 of 98
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    tipoo wrote: »
    Wait what? A8 just jumped a fab process, are you sure A9 will be 14nm? A10 is where I would expect that. 

    According to industry news 14nm is shipping the end of the year whether Apple is the one using it or not. I suspect Apple is in the mix alongside Qualcomm.
  • Reply 50 of 98
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

     

    Right... And what kind of ridiculous power usage does this mess have. You can cook food on Nvidia'S current powered Tablets and as for the power it use.. Oh my god!

     

    As for the future, we'll see. 


     

    I dunno, you can search as easily as I can.  A quick scan indicates a reduction in power consumption:

    http://wccftech.com/nvidia-tegra-k1-performance-power-consumption-revealed-xiaomi-mipad-ship-32bit-64bit-denver-powered-chips/

  • Reply 51 of 98
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    I dunno, you can search as easily as I can.  A quick scan indicates a reduction in power consumption:

    http://wccftech.com/nvidia-tegra-k1-performance-power-consumption-revealed-xiaomi-mipad-ship-32bit-64bit-denver-powered-chips/


     

    Still a galaxy more than the A8, especially if used more than a few minute. Those chips are high performance, but not if you use them for any length a time unless you want a big hit on your battery. In tablets dedicated to gaming its a bit less of an issue. But, for general use tablets and phone, it is a big issue.

  • Reply 52 of 98
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    According to industry news 14nm is shipping the end of the year whether Apple is the one using it or not. I suspect Apple is in the mix alongside Qualcomm.

     

    Shipping to whom, and what year? 2015. If it is the end of next year, it would be hard for Apple to put in their phones. If they're shipped to Apple, they're still not in the phone and then in the hands of customers.

  • Reply 53 of 98
    ksec wrote: »
    Oh hell yes they are. The most advance SoC Node ( excluding Intel ) are coming from 20nm TSMC and Apple are using the majority of it.

    I still dont believe the Samsung A8 Story. Yes Apple can scale and make SoC in both Fabs. But it is not like the the manufacturing of SoC are the bottleneck of iPhone Production. Assuming even at 65% yield rate TSMC could produce at least 20M SoC for Apple per month. And I think with Apple's huge volume the yield should be better then that from start.    

    The only reason Apple would use Samsung is price. Not only on 14nm wafers, but on LPDDR4, I think Apple wanted 2GB Memory but to fit its power requirement on iPhone they would need LPDDR4, and that is expensive.

    The 14nm FinFET taps Samsung and it's exclusive partnership with GlobalFoundries which together are stamping out the 14nm FinFET LPE.
  • Reply 54 of 98
    joshajosha Posts: 901member
    I'm sure Samsung would love to produce a leading edge iPhone CPU for Apple, but why would Apple go back to the company which has been so abusive to Apple?
    Then again Samsung may be playing nice guy to Apple, just to get back into the iPhone info links.

    Whatever I'm sure Apple will keep enough info from Samsung to limit their copying until at least a few months after a new iPhone model is available.
  • Reply 55 of 98
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

     

    The iPhone is not the only device that will have an A8. Samsung could be producing A8s for the iPad. In fact, it would make a lot more sense to split the work in that way, since TSMC and Samsung are unlikely to produce chips with exactly the same power and thermal characteristics -- Apple wouldn't want that kind of heterogeneity across units of the same type. 

     

    I actually think this story has a lot of credibility. Apple is operating at a scale where it can afford to have two foundries, and clearly there's a huge advantage to doing that (if you have the scale to support it). It could be that for the next few years Apple will have TSMC and Samsung compete on yields and performance/watt, with the winner getting the iPhone and the loser getting the iPad. 




    This post makes a hell of a lot of sense. Interesting observation.

  • Reply 56 of 98
    shaminoshamino Posts: 527member

    This article surprises me.  Given that Samsung already has an established reputation for ripping intellectual property from competitors (remember all those Galaxy-vs-iPhone UI lawsuits?), I can't imagine that Apple would want to allow them anywhere near new cutting-edge technology like their next-generation processor.  I wouldn't trust them to honor the NDA beyond the point where doing so becomes inconvenient.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post



    I always wonder how these guys can shrink a process node every year when Intel have so much trouble doing the same. Intel is not a newbie to this game. They have been playing it for 40 years. Is there something that fundamentally makes shrinking an Intel CPU much harder than an ARM one?


     

    I think it is.  ARM is a fairly clean design without a lot of legacy baggage to keep porting forward.

     

    x86, on the other hand, needs to maintain (mostly) software compatibility with all of its old antiquated operating modes like real-mode (8088, 80186), 16-bit protected mode (80286), and all of the various 32-bit modes from the 386 forward.  Supporting all of that, along with modern high-performance requirements makes every successive generation a particularly nasty challenge.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post



    I'm on the "S" cycle and refuse to pay a premium for a device that gets upgraded next year.

     

    I assume you mean to say that you don't want to upgrade every year, not that you are waiting for Apple to wait two years between new models (which, as others already commented, would be silly.)

     

    I feel the same way.  I'm not going to pay full price, so I only get new phones when I can take advantage of re-up discounts, which generally means every 18-24 months.  I also prefer to not replace a phone until it breaks or can no longer run my apps well, which is why my 4S is still being used - 2.5 years later and it's still working well.

     

    I broke that rule this year (ordering a 6plus, which will be delivered at the end of the month) only because Verizon was giving me a $200 trade-in on my 4S to upgrade immediately and I doubt I'll find an offer that good when circumstances force me to upgrade.

     

    Ironically, my ancient Motorola RAZR v3c was working great after five years (needing only a new battery to keep going strong.)  I only stopped using it because I wanted to get a smartphone.  I've still considered switching back, and using an iPad mini for my apps, except that with the pricing plans for today's mobile contracts, I wouldn't save any money if I did.

  • Reply 57 of 98
    Broadwell will solve everything. /s
  • Reply 58 of 98
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Whomever can do the job is the one I want Apple to use, but I find it interesting that we're already hearing about another process shrink when Apple has doing one every year for several years now and is ahead of everyone else in the industry. My guess is this won't happen in 2015, but 2016, which 20-nanometer holding next year with some advancements in other areas of the A9 chip.



    That said, if they are truly ready for 14-nm production in 2015 I'd think the ?Watch would be the first place I'd want to it since this is where battery life needs the most help and the sales would likely be low enough to make the yields sustainable.







    PS: How is it @sog35 gets banned but not @pazuzu when only one of those people constantly trolls this forum.

     

     

    I don't think you understand the meaning of that word.

  • Reply 59 of 98
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shamino View Post

     

     

     

    I think it is.  ARM is a fairly clean design without a lot of legacy baggage to keep porting forward.

     

    x86, on the other hand, needs to maintain (mostly) software compatibility with all of its old antiquated operating modes like real-mode (8088, 80186), 16-bit protected mode (80286), and all of the various 32-bit modes from the 386 forward.  Supporting all of that, along with modern high-performance requirements makes every successive generation a particularly nasty challenge.

     

     

    I assume you mean to say that you don't want to upgrade every year, not that you are waiting for Apple to wait two years between new models (which, as others already commented, would be silly.)

     

    I feel the same way.  I'm not going to pay full price, so I only get new phones when I can take advantage of re-up discounts, which generally means every 18-24 months.  I also prefer to not replace a phone until it breaks or can no longer run my apps well, which is why my 4S is still being used - 2.5 years later and it's still working well.

     

    I broke that rule this year (ordering a 6plus, which will be delivered at the end of the month) only because Verizon was giving me a $200 trade-in on my 4S to upgrade immediately and I doubt I'll find an offer that good when circumstances force me to upgrade.

     

    Ironically, my ancient Motorola RAZR v3c was working great after five years (needing only a new battery to keep going strong.)  I only stopped using it because I wanted to get a smartphone.  I've still considered switching back, and using an iPad mini for my apps, except that with the pricing plans for today's mobile contracts, I wouldn't save any money if I did.


     

    I just can't see paying Verizon's high rates and holding back on the latest tech. With a Verizon plan, you're paying $450-$500/year for the phone anyway. You've got great resale on an iPhone at two years, so the "purchase price" with Verizon is soaked up when you sell the old phone. At least that way the $500/year virtual phone rental keeps you on the best hardware.

  • Reply 60 of 98
    Yeah, when the A9 comes out and it's still 20nm, while everybody else is on 28, Apple will be ahead of them, but somehow still behind.

    "Epic Fail! LOL!! 2014 technology!" /Fandroids

    "You don't need 14nm chips."
    "It's not really 14nm."
    "but but but 1GB of memory"
    "Bend gate"
    "Qualcomm already had a 14nm chip"
    "I'll wait until next year when 9nm chips are out"
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