I find his contributions to AI to be extremely interesting and enjoyable.
You're not alone. Many here like DED's articles and are very entertained by them. Many people also enjoy dramas based on real life. I'm more of a documentary guy myself. To each there own.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
while I know you relish in trolling this site and any attempts at enlightening you will fail due to mule-headedness, I'll try anyway. this sums it up:
"KenC Says:
March 3rd, 2010 at 8:58 pm
It’s metaphorical. Picasso was referring to some artists, aka good, whose work is nothing more than copying. They take an idea and repeat it ad nauseum, adding nothing to pushing the concept forward.
Great artists, according to Picasso, take an idea, and own it, aka steal. Pushing that idea so far that others no longer remember that you got the initial inspiration elsewhere. You’ve taken the idea so far that people think you own it. That’s what “steal” means."
That's very funny and it also makes the point that embedded in that quote lies both humor and irreverence, as well as truth. To suggest that the 'thievery' of ideas that artist indulge in somehow compares to copying and then laying claim to the copied shows willful ignorance.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
It takes an artist to understand that comment in the original context. The difference is subtle, but apparent to those who design, create, and invent. The quote is widely misunderstood and misapplied by those who do not.
I am being serious, even if you are not. Go ahead and google the answer if you really ask because you want to increase your knowledge and you're not just posting that for a cheap troll.
You guys really need to stop citing DED as a reference. His lack of credibility only hurts your position when you cite him. His piece on Apple, Xerox, and MS where he tried to rewrite history was laughable at best, intellectually dishonest at worst.
read about it from the people who were there. as in, actually in the room.
"We are not even _close_ to the ultimate computing-information- communication device. We have much more work to do on system architectures and user interfaces. In particular, user interface design must be driven by deep architectural issues and not just new graphical appearances; interfaces are structure, not image. Neither Copland nor Windows 95 (nor NT, for that matter) represent the last word on operating systems. Unfortunately, market forces are slowing the development of the next revolution. Still, I think you can count on Apple being the company bringing these improvements to next generation systems."
Boy, was he right! Of course, it wasnt the people running Apple then, Steve and Co had to ride to the rescue, but Apple has certainly released the greatest computing information and communication devices of our time.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
"We are not even _close_ to the ultimate computing-information- communication device. We have much more work to do on system architectures and user interfaces. In particular, user interface design must be driven by deep architectural issues and not just new graphical appearances; interfaces are structure, not image. Neither Copland nor Windows 95 (nor NT, for that matter) represent the last word on operating systems. Unfortunately, market forces are slowing the development of the next revolution. Still, I think you can count on Apple being the company bringing these improvements to next generation systems."
Boy, was he right! Of course, it wasnt the people running Apple then, Steve and Co had to ride to the rescue, but Apple has certainly released the greatest computing information and communication devices of our time.
I hope Vanity Fair posts the entire video because it sounds really interesting.
Jony is mesmerizing when he speaks and always so insightful and thoughtful, as I always feel like I benefit from hearing what he says, its always meaningful. I enjoyed the **** out of that very short clip, especially the last part.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
That's always a context problem.
When someone says what Jobs said there, that's in the context of "these people suck or fail at developing this product, let's do it better"
There's not a lot of things out there that are whole-cloth original. Look at all the copy-cat FPS games, MMORPG's, and sports games. Strip these games of the storyline, and they're all the same game.
When was the last time any game did any thing innovative? Minecraft? No Minecraft was actually predated by Infiniminer. Which nobody has heard of unless they're familiar with Minecraft.
This is basically the same idea. Apple saw how crappy the phone market was and reinvented it. Then Samsung and Google just up and ripped it off. This legacy is reflected in the cluster**** of a mess the Android SDK/NDK is. No matter what cool bits Samgsung puts in a phone, it will be forever hobbled by the Android OS, but without the Android OS they have no other option but tizen, which is the same animal as Android (linux.) If developers are hesitant to put up with Android, why would they want to try again with Tizen?
On the other side of the market we have Blackberry, which is who Google intended to rip off. Blackberry switched to QNX at last minute, and completely fumbled out the gate. QNX is also a UNIX descendant.
Ultimately the software is only a small part of the product design. The OS has to be functional, and easy to use. Everything that descends from Linux is not, and has never been user friendly. But had Android been based on FreeBSD or QNX or Symbian, it would likely still have been a mess because of Google's insistence on ripping off Java.
But move on- the thread is about copying per Jony.
The thread? You don't get to say what the thread is about because you don't own the thread. The article is about several topics, of which copying was but one. But you probably didn't read past the headline. Maybe it's time you moved on.
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Pazuzu, it's amazing how mind-numbingly predictable you are. It wouldn't take much for Jony to explain that, but it would be completely lost on someone like you. Do you think Picasso was a thief, or that he copied others? Maybe you should make an effort to go understand the meaning and jist behind the original quote-which is widely available- but you won't, because you're incredibly lazy, have a blatant agenda, and intellectually dishonest. That's why you never acknowledge posters when they take the time to explain things to you, using facts and history. I've seen it a million times with you.
Maybe once in a while you should try to gain some insight from the words of someone like Ive, instead of trying to come up with an idiotic quip. Why dont you actually LISTEN and ABSORB what he's saying? Intelligent and intellectually curious people see it as a privelege when they can read or hear the words of extremely accomplished and skilled people. Then there's people like you, who take it as an opportunity to mock. The sad thing is you always derail every single thread you're in, and makes it impossible to have any intelligent discussion about the topic at hand. Why not shut the **** up if you have nothing even remotely intelligent to contribute?
Honestly if I was ever told I was vain for caring about how my teams work was critiqued I would tell that person to f--k off. Jony can say Steve was right (he'd hardly say anything else) but that's BS. Being an asshole isn't the way you inspire people to do their best work.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
According to Twitter, in this interview Ive said his commute to/from Cupertino is around two hours each way. Ouch.
You really think Ive drives himself those two hours? Even lowly Apple employees in SF get driven to work by the Apple Bus. (And time on the bus counts toward your workday. So a two-hour commute would mean you only spend 6 hours at work.)
And in Ive's case, I'm sure he has his own personal driver and vehicle.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
You have to be pretty sophomoric to not see the difference between Steve Jobs taking a concept like a portable media player, which existed, and making a device that was wildly successful and even got the backing of all the major music lables, who were terrified of the new mp3 format and what it could do to their business. So yes he "stole" the idea of a portable media player, but he completely transformed the music industry because he understood how to execute the "idea" like no one else could.
This is a far cry from google execs sitting in on Apple board meetings and basically copy-pasting someone else's result from years of blood, sweat and tears. The two things aren't even remotely equivalent in terms of benefit to humanity and behaviour that is to be admired and studied versus behaviour that is reprehensible.
Comments
Then there's the old writers' maxim: "Steal from one or two other writers and it's plagiarism, steal from three or more and it's research."
LOL
Is the picture below one of the most famous cases of identity theft?
I mean, Leonardo didn't actually paint this woman from scratch, did he?
It also makes you question: did Google steal search?
I find his contributions to AI to be extremely interesting and enjoyable.
You're not alone. Many here like DED's articles and are very entertained by them. Many people also enjoy dramas based on real life. I'm more of a documentary guy myself. To each there own.
That's a huge indictment of Google and Samsung...
while I know you relish in trolling this site and any attempts at enlightening you will fail due to mule-headedness, I'll try anyway. this sums it up:
"KenC Says:
March 3rd, 2010 at 8:58 pm
It’s metaphorical. Picasso was referring to some artists, aka good, whose work is nothing more than copying. They take an idea and repeat it ad nauseum, adding nothing to pushing the concept forward.
Great artists, according to Picasso, take an idea, and own it, aka steal. Pushing that idea so far that others no longer remember that you got the initial inspiration elsewhere. You’ve taken the idea so far that people think you own it. That’s what “steal” means."
It takes an artist to understand that comment in the original context. The difference is subtle, but apparent to those who design, create, and invent. The quote is widely misunderstood and misapplied by those who do not.
I am being serious, even if you are not. Go ahead and google the answer if you really ask because you want to increase your knowledge and you're not just posting that for a cheap troll.
read about it from the people who were there. as in, actually in the room.
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt
"We are not even _close_ to the ultimate computing-information- communication device. We have much more work to do on system architectures and user interfaces. In particular, user interface design must be driven by deep architectural issues and not just new graphical appearances; interfaces are structure, not image. Neither Copland nor Windows 95 (nor NT, for that matter) represent the last word on operating systems. Unfortunately, market forces are slowing the development of the next revolution. Still, I think you can count on Apple being the company bringing these improvements to next generation systems."
Boy, was he right! Of course, it wasnt the people running Apple then, Steve and Co had to ride to the rescue, but Apple has certainly released the greatest computing information and communication devices of our time.
Also, here's the DED article someone was talking about: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/08/10/xerox-parc-the-apple-inc-macintosh-innovator-duplicator-litigator
Don't be thick.
indeed!
funny, I had forgotten about that article and I'm the one who posted its link in the Folklore comments!
Here's a video clip: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/10/jony-ive-lessons-from-steve-jobs
I hope Vanity Fair posts the entire video because it sounds really interesting.
Jony is mesmerizing when he speaks and always so insightful and thoughtful, as I always feel like I benefit from hearing what he says, its always meaningful. I enjoyed the **** out of that very short clip, especially the last part.
When someone says what Jobs said there, that's in the context of "these people suck or fail at developing this product, let's do it better"
There's not a lot of things out there that are whole-cloth original. Look at all the copy-cat FPS games, MMORPG's, and sports games. Strip these games of the storyline, and they're all the same game.
When was the last time any game did any thing innovative? Minecraft? No Minecraft was actually predated by Infiniminer. Which nobody has heard of unless they're familiar with Minecraft.
This is basically the same idea. Apple saw how crappy the phone market was and reinvented it. Then Samsung and Google just up and ripped it off. This legacy is reflected in the cluster**** of a mess the Android SDK/NDK is. No matter what cool bits Samgsung puts in a phone, it will be forever hobbled by the Android OS, but without the Android OS they have no other option but tizen, which is the same animal as Android (linux.) If developers are hesitant to put up with Android, why would they want to try again with Tizen?
On the other side of the market we have Blackberry, which is who Google intended to rip off. Blackberry switched to QNX at last minute, and completely fumbled out the gate. QNX is also a UNIX descendant.
Ultimately the software is only a small part of the product design. The OS has to be functional, and easy to use. Everything that descends from Linux is not, and has never been user friendly. But had Android been based on FreeBSD or QNX or Symbian, it would likely still have been a mess because of Google's insistence on ripping off Java.
Retarded? Who even uses such a term.
But move on- the thread is about copying per Jony.
The thread? You don't get to say what the thread is about because you don't own the thread. The article is about several topics, of which copying was but one. But you probably didn't read past the headline. Maybe it's time you moved on.
Steve Jobs: "
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Pazuzu, it's amazing how mind-numbingly predictable you are. It wouldn't take much for Jony to explain that, but it would be completely lost on someone like you. Do you think Picasso was a thief, or that he copied others? Maybe you should make an effort to go understand the meaning and jist behind the original quote-which is widely available- but you won't, because you're incredibly lazy, have a blatant agenda, and intellectually dishonest. That's why you never acknowledge posters when they take the time to explain things to you, using facts and history. I've seen it a million times with you.
Maybe once in a while you should try to gain some insight from the words of someone like Ive, instead of trying to come up with an idiotic quip. Why dont you actually LISTEN and ABSORB what he's saying? Intelligent and intellectually curious people see it as a privelege when they can read or hear the words of extremely accomplished and skilled people. Then there's people like you, who take it as an opportunity to mock. The sad thing is you always derail every single thread you're in, and makes it impossible to have any intelligent discussion about the topic at hand. Why not shut the **** up if you have nothing even remotely intelligent to contribute?
"Ideas" not "designs". Explained.
According to Twitter, in this interview Ive said his commute to/from Cupertino is around two hours each way. Ouch.
You really think Ive drives himself those two hours? Even lowly Apple employees in SF get driven to work by the Apple Bus. (And time on the bus counts toward your workday. So a two-hour commute would mean you only spend 6 hours at work.)
And in Ive's case, I'm sure he has his own personal driver and vehicle.
You have to be pretty sophomoric to not see the difference between Steve Jobs taking a concept like a portable media player, which existed, and making a device that was wildly successful and even got the backing of all the major music lables, who were terrified of the new mp3 format and what it could do to their business. So yes he "stole" the idea of a portable media player, but he completely transformed the music industry because he understood how to execute the "idea" like no one else could.
This is a far cry from google execs sitting in on Apple board meetings and basically copy-pasting someone else's result from years of blood, sweat and tears. The two things aren't even remotely equivalent in terms of benefit to humanity and behaviour that is to be admired and studied versus behaviour that is reprehensible.
That's always a context problem.
Context?
Understanding context requires intelligence and subtlety. Trolls often have neither -- just low self-esteem.