I don't think he goes in every day though. He did say the team meets 3-4 times per week but he didn't say if he meets with them. Tim said before when that interfering guy wanted to bother Jony that Jony isn't involved with the day to day operation.
Based on patent documents it appears that all but two of Ive's design team members live in San Francisco. I'm sure Ive does a lot of traveling (hence why he apparently purchased Steve's Gulfstream) so he's probably not in the office every day. It would be cool if VF eventually put these entire interviews online. Something else Ive said that was interesting is on his core hardware design team there has been zero voluntary turnover since he took over. Sure it's a small team but to garner such loyalty is still quite remarkable.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
Alberto Giacometti 10 October 1901 – 11 January 1966) was a Swiss sculptor, painter, draughtsman and printmaker. He was born in the canton Graubünden's southerly alpine valley Val Bregaglia, as the eldest of four children to Giovanni Giacometti, a well-known post-Impressionist painter.
Now he was one of the very few people who Picasso respected. Picasso had very little time for anyone he considered inferior, Curuously much like Steve Jobs. Now Picasso is the absolute epitomy of vanity and took several mistresses and treated people very badly. So I'm not suprised Jobs quoted him.
In Giacometti's auto biography there is a story about him meeting with his friend Picasso. Giacometti commented about Picasso's art:
"All you do is draw objects"
Giacometti if you study his art tries to depict what is beneath the surface at the nasty underbelly.
I gather this really pissed Picasso off, because its true! Just the same as hi tech , all it makes is objects, Steve tried to add some kind of content some inner quality, Johnny Ive is somewhat similar.
I could go on but its "off topic" but to summarize, its not a simple case of what cool vs what is not cool, its a lot more complex than that! Personally I believe that Jobs considered making electronic devices rather dull and bourgoise and would have much preferred to be artist/painter! Thats why he considered most people around him rather limited in their thought processes and simply "didn't get it".
oh if you really want to start to understand how visions (concepts) , objects (precepts) relate and tie together a good book to read is Rudolf Steiner's "Philosphy of Freedom". Though I warn you it might just change your whole attitude to your perceptions of reality! exactly the experience Jobs had on hallucigenic substances in the early days in San Jose LOL
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Alberto Giacometti 10 October 1901 – 11 January 1966) was a Swiss sculptor, painter, draughtsman and printmaker. He was born in the canton Graubünden's southerly alpine valley Val Bregaglia, as the eldest of four children to Giovanni Giacometti, a well-known post-Impressionist painter.
Now he was one of the very few people who Picasso respected. Picasso had very little time for anyone he considered inferior, Curuously much like Steve Jobs. Now Picasso is the absolute epitomy of vanity and took several mistresses and treated people very badly. So I'm not suprised Jobs quoted him.
In Giacometti's auto biography there is a story about him meeting with his friend Picasso. Giacometti commented about Picasso's art:
"All you do is draw objects"
Giacometti if you study his art tries to depict what is beneath the surface at the nasty underbelly.
I gather this really pissed Picasso off, because its true! Just the same as hi tech , all it makes is objects, Steve tried to add some kind of content some inner quality, Johnny Ive is somewhat similar.
I could go on but its "off topic" but to summarize, its not a simple case of what cool vs what is not cool, its a lot more complex than that! Personally I believe that Jobs considered making electronic devices rather dull and bourgoise and would have much preferred to be artist/painter! Thats why he considered most people around him rather limited in their thought processes and simply "didn't get it".
Perceptive comment.
And maybe Pixar was Jobs's way of entering the realm of creativity.
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Good point. An idea is not a product, some will have ideas without a clue on how to convert them into products. Take the GUI for example; Xerox was putzing with that idea for years and was never able to make a useful product, even after they launched their Xerox Star. Apple stepped in, took that idea and made the Macintosh, after that, every computer in the world uses that same GUI.
I'm not talking about the quality of the phones but the size. And the fact is Apple pitched the iPhone 5 4" display as the right size because you could comfortably use in one hand. Now we get reachability, which lets be honest, If an Android OEM came up with it we'd be calling it gimmicky. I'm still not convinced Jony Ive wanted to make a phablet (heck if Steve were still around I'd say the same thing about him) but alas the market seems to want this type of device so Apple had to do it. Personally I think it's ridiculous. And again, just to be clear, I'm referring to the screen size not the design of the device. I've held both phones in my hand and I think the iPhone 6 feels amazing. I have no doubt its a brilliant piece of design. But I use my 5S one handed all the time and I'm not sure I could do that with a 6.
There's no evidence that Ive felt forced in making the Plus, and a lot of evidence that he and the hardware and software teams made every effort to exploit the larger size.
The dual domain pixels, the higher density, the wait for LTPS capacity and for processing power, etc., all point to a recognition on the part of the designers that this device is going to be highly, usefully fetishized by visually oriented people of all kinds. You have to imagine yourself finding it a necessity before you realize this, but I suspect you are not the target user—the videographer, the architect, the photographer, graphic artist, etc., etc., who will find it more convenient to carry around for their work than an iPad mini. Or the Asian calligrapher, the Zen landscape painter, i could go on. Come to think of it, it's the most Zen form factor yet seen, and I resist saying anything about how Steve would feel about it.
Good point. An idea is not a product, some will have ideas which they'll have no clue on how to convert them into a products. Take for example the GUI; Xerox was putzing with that idea for years and was never able to make a useful product, even after they launched their Xerox Star. Apple stepped in, took that idea and made the Macintosh, after that every computer in the world uses that same GUI.
Copying, is more like what Samsung does.
With copying there is absolutely no innovation.
It is my belief that Samsung phones are indeed copies. They are not exactly copies , but for all intents and purposes they really are. Samsung doesn't innovate. If it did their watch would be better. If you want proof just wait until they make their next Samsung watch after the Apple watch - Agreed?
Good point. An idea is not a product, some will have ideas which they'll have no clue on how to convert them into a products. Take for example the GUI; Xerox was putzing with that idea for years and was never able to make a useful product, even after they launched their Xerox Star. Apple stepped in, bought that idea and made the Macintosh, after that every computer in the world uses that same GUI.
And maybe Pixar was Jobs's way of entering the realm of creativity.
True "Art" is something which triggers the person observing it. Most art is something "on display" and it causes the viewer to make leaps of intuitive or inspired cognition. Kitsch or Bourgeois objects don't do this, they don't inspire much or cause the person to make these leaps in wonderment. Apple is the only company that comes even close to this "Artistic" trigger. High technology gadgets are different in respect to Art there is much more of a direct user interaction albeit in most cases very utilitarian like setting appointments etc. The real beneficial aspect apart from the mundane aspects of organizing ones life (maps, appointments etc.) is if said gadget is able to do something which really sparks creativity rather than simply a consumption or navigation thru life object. Engineering a gadget to do that is something else entirely.
It is my belief that Samsung phones are indeed copies. They are not exactly copies , but for all intents and purposes they really are. Samsung doesn't innovate. If it did their watch would be better. If you want proof just wait until they make their next Samsung watch after the Apple watch - Agreed?
True. Copying is more like reverse engineering a completed product, manufacturing it, and slapping your logo on it.
True "Art" is something which triggers the person observing it. Most art is something "on display" and it causes the viewer to make leaps of intuitive or inspired cognition. Kitsch or Bourgeois objects don't do this, they don't inspire much or cause the person to make these leaps in wonderment. Apple is the only company that comes even close to this "Artistic" trigger. High technology gadgets are different in respect to Art there is much more of a direct user interaction albeit in most cases very utilitarian like setting appointments etc. The real beneficial aspect apart from the mundane aspects of organizing ones life (maps, appointments etc.) is if said gadget is able to do something which really sparks creativity rather than simply a consumption or navigation thru life object. Engineering a gadget to do that is something else entirely.
Thank you for your well written posts which are very enlightening.
Thank you for your well written posts which are very enlightening.
Unfortunately Apple can't control the primary technology to make an Apple TV yet! Sad but true but really I can't see how a TV can ever be a truly creative device. Art is hands on, can you think of any artistic medium where fingers and hands are not used? I think the only way a TV might become a truly hand input device is make the technology be able to "read" a human waving hands about in front of it or reading body movements that's the leap I think that Steve Jobs made but Apple has not divulged.
Until a sensor can be made that senses human thought patterns I don't think we will ever get beyond the mouse and the finger as an input device? The accelerometer/gyroscope is an interesting input device, I believe it needs to be freed from the phone and put into other devices like for example the paint brush or the pen, or a glove? Imagine the possibilities now that will be true next step innovation. If I was back at University I'd want to do a project using the accelerometer and gyroscope and build something really cool with it. I'd build a glove with multiple input devices tied to a TV and then paint a picture.
Beyond that I'd love to try build a sensor that could read the pictures I see with my imagination in my mind's eye and then show them on a screen.
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Samsung is not an artist!
The idea is one artist takes from another and adds to it to make it their own. Like Samsung adding the scroll screen on the side of their phones. If they did that in the beginning, people would have said 'they took from Apple and made it their own', it is the same, but entirely different. It does not imply to duplicate the entire work as they did from the beginning. You copy concepts and elements into your own work. You don't copy verbatim.
Every single invention, scientific discovery and step made in the history of mankind comes to us from the non 5 sensory world (spirit world) , in that world there are no secrets or owning of ideas. In this world though the attribute that must prevail is private property, its underpins the edifice of capitalism. That cognitive inspired thought in a human being's head is not that individual's like you have been programmed to believe. Once you realize this spiritual reality it completely make a nonsense of any notion of owning an idea by an individual or group.
"You think that thought you are having is your own?" hmmmmm
I find it funny that people don't understand what Steve Jobs was referring to when he quotes Picasso, “Good artists copy, great artists steal”. Every artist is influenced by what has been done before their time. If not by direct exposure, the information the artist is exposed to through other people, media, etc. influences them. We are all a product of our times and have the benefit of those who have walked similar paths we are now on.
We all borrow because it has all been done before and we are not the originators. To merely copy is to take an existing interpretation and not run away with it. To steal an idea is to take something of value and make it yours. To make an artistic element yours you have to interpret it your way with your own approach.
This cannot be done when you are merely copying the idea. When copying the idea you are just doing everything exactly like it was previously done. When you have done it your way you have used the element and not simply duplicated it.
It is not required that you advance the element. You can go sideways and even backwards with the idea and you can be stealing the element and not copying it. On the contrary, when merely copying the element you have failed if you do not match the original.
Comments
Based on patent documents it appears that all but two of Ive's design team members live in San Francisco. I'm sure Ive does a lot of traveling (hence why he apparently purchased Steve's Gulfstream) so he's probably not in the office every day. It would be cool if VF eventually put these entire interviews online. Something else Ive said that was interesting is on his core hardware design team there has been zero voluntary turnover since he took over. Sure it's a small team but to garner such loyalty is still quite remarkable.
Alberto Giacometti 10 October 1901 – 11 January 1966) was a Swiss sculptor, painter, draughtsman and printmaker. He was born in the canton Graubünden's southerly alpine valley Val Bregaglia, as the eldest of four children to Giovanni Giacometti, a well-known post-Impressionist painter.
Now he was one of the very few people who Picasso respected. Picasso had very little time for anyone he considered inferior, Curuously much like Steve Jobs. Now Picasso is the absolute epitomy of vanity and took several mistresses and treated people very badly. So I'm not suprised Jobs quoted him.
In Giacometti's auto biography there is a story about him meeting with his friend Picasso. Giacometti commented about Picasso's art:
"All you do is draw objects"
Giacometti if you study his art tries to depict what is beneath the surface at the nasty underbelly.
I gather this really pissed Picasso off, because its true! Just the same as hi tech , all it makes is objects, Steve tried to add some kind of content some inner quality, Johnny Ive is somewhat similar.
I could go on but its "off topic" but to summarize, its not a simple case of what cool vs what is not cool, its a lot more complex than that! Personally I believe that Jobs considered making electronic devices rather dull and bourgoise and would have much preferred to be artist/painter! Thats why he considered most people around him rather limited in their thought processes and simply "didn't get it".
oh if you really want to start to understand how visions (concepts) , objects (precepts) relate and tie together a good book to read is Rudolf Steiner's "Philosphy of Freedom". Though I warn you it might just change your whole attitude to your perceptions of reality! exactly the experience Jobs had on hallucigenic substances in the early days in San Jose LOL
Steve Jobs: "
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Alberto Giacometti 10 October 1901 – 11 January 1966) was a Swiss sculptor, painter, draughtsman and printmaker. He was born in the canton Graubünden's southerly alpine valley Val Bregaglia, as the eldest of four children to Giovanni Giacometti, a well-known post-Impressionist painter.
Now he was one of the very few people who Picasso respected. Picasso had very little time for anyone he considered inferior, Curuously much like Steve Jobs. Now Picasso is the absolute epitomy of vanity and took several mistresses and treated people very badly. So I'm not suprised Jobs quoted him.
In Giacometti's auto biography there is a story about him meeting with his friend Picasso. Giacometti commented about Picasso's art:
"All you do is draw objects"
Giacometti if you study his art tries to depict what is beneath the surface at the nasty underbelly.
I gather this really pissed Picasso off, because its true! Just the same as hi tech , all it makes is objects, Steve tried to add some kind of content some inner quality, Johnny Ive is somewhat similar.
I could go on but its "off topic" but to summarize, its not a simple case of what cool vs what is not cool, its a lot more complex than that! Personally I believe that Jobs considered making electronic devices rather dull and bourgoise and would have much preferred to be artist/painter! Thats why he considered most people around him rather limited in their thought processes and simply "didn't get it".
Perceptive comment.
And maybe Pixar was Jobs's way of entering the realm of creativity.
Steve Jobs: "
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Good point. An idea is not a product, some will have ideas without a clue on how to convert them into products. Take the GUI for example; Xerox was putzing with that idea for years and was never able to make a useful product, even after they launched their Xerox Star. Apple stepped in, took that idea and made the Macintosh, after that, every computer in the world uses that same GUI.
Copying, is more like what Samsung does.
Edit: Grammar
There's no evidence that Ive felt forced in making the Plus, and a lot of evidence that he and the hardware and software teams made every effort to exploit the larger size.
The dual domain pixels, the higher density, the wait for LTPS capacity and for processing power, etc., all point to a recognition on the part of the designers that this device is going to be highly, usefully fetishized by visually oriented people of all kinds. You have to imagine yourself finding it a necessity before you realize this, but I suspect you are not the target user—the videographer, the architect, the photographer, graphic artist, etc., etc., who will find it more convenient to carry around for their work than an iPad mini. Or the Asian calligrapher, the Zen landscape painter, i could go on. Come to think of it, it's the most Zen form factor yet seen, and I resist saying anything about how Steve would feel about it.
Good point. An idea is not a product, some will have ideas which they'll have no clue on how to convert them into a products. Take for example the GUI; Xerox was putzing with that idea for years and was never able to make a useful product, even after they launched their Xerox Star. Apple stepped in, took that idea and made the Macintosh, after that every computer in the world uses that same GUI.
Copying, is more like what Samsung does.
With copying there is absolutely no innovation.
It is my belief that Samsung phones are indeed copies. They are not exactly copies , but for all intents and purposes they really are. Samsung doesn't innovate. If it did their watch would be better. If you want proof just wait until they make their next Samsung watch after the Apple watch - Agreed?
Corrected your narrative there.
Perceptive comment.
And maybe Pixar was Jobs's way of entering the realm of creativity.
True "Art" is something which triggers the person observing it. Most art is something "on display" and it causes the viewer to make leaps of intuitive or inspired cognition. Kitsch or Bourgeois objects don't do this, they don't inspire much or cause the person to make these leaps in wonderment. Apple is the only company that comes even close to this "Artistic" trigger. High technology gadgets are different in respect to Art there is much more of a direct user interaction albeit in most cases very utilitarian like setting appointments etc. The real beneficial aspect apart from the mundane aspects of organizing ones life (maps, appointments etc.) is if said gadget is able to do something which really sparks creativity rather than simply a consumption or navigation thru life object. Engineering a gadget to do that is something else entirely.
With copying there is absolutely no innovation.
It is my belief that Samsung phones are indeed copies. They are not exactly copies , but for all intents and purposes they really are. Samsung doesn't innovate. If it did their watch would be better. If you want proof just wait until they make their next Samsung watch after the Apple watch - Agreed?
True. Copying is more like reverse engineering a completed product, manufacturing it, and slapping your logo on it.
Thank you for your well written posts which are very enlightening.
Thank you for your well written posts which are very enlightening.
Unfortunately Apple can't control the primary technology to make an Apple TV yet! Sad but true but really I can't see how a TV can ever be a truly creative device. Art is hands on, can you think of any artistic medium where fingers and hands are not used? I think the only way a TV might become a truly hand input device is make the technology be able to "read" a human waving hands about in front of it or reading body movements that's the leap I think that Steve Jobs made but Apple has not divulged.
Until a sensor can be made that senses human thought patterns I don't think we will ever get beyond the mouse and the finger as an input device? The accelerometer/gyroscope is an interesting input device, I believe it needs to be freed from the phone and put into other devices like for example the paint brush or the pen, or a glove? Imagine the possibilities now that will be true next step innovation. If I was back at University I'd want to do a project using the accelerometer and gyroscope and build something really cool with it. I'd build a glove with multiple input devices tied to a TV and then paint a picture.
Beyond that I'd love to try build a sensor that could read the pictures I see with my imagination in my mind's eye and then show them on a screen.
Steve Jobs: "
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
Samsung is not an artist!
The idea is one artist takes from another and adds to it to make it their own. Like Samsung adding the scroll screen on the side of their phones. If they did that in the beginning, people would have said 'they took from Apple and made it their own', it is the same, but entirely different. It does not imply to duplicate the entire work as they did from the beginning. You copy concepts and elements into your own work. You don't copy verbatim.
"You think that thought you are having is your own?" hmmmmm
Did you just quote yourself, then flame yourself? It's like Fight Club
well spotted, I made a mistake, o I'm sorry I'm just being human.
Jony, please design something new. Small ipad and large screen iphone are hardly anything to brag about. SJ hated and ridiculed them, remember?
Maybe go to this page.
Idea does not equal product.
One is legally safe in any context only if those sources are dead.
I find it funny that people don't understand what Steve Jobs was referring to when he quotes Picasso, “Good artists copy, great artists steal”. Every artist is influenced by what has been done before their time. If not by direct exposure, the information the artist is exposed to through other people, media, etc. influences them. We are all a product of our times and have the benefit of those who have walked similar paths we are now on.
We all borrow because it has all been done before and we are not the originators. To merely copy is to take an existing interpretation and not run away with it. To steal an idea is to take something of value and make it yours. To make an artistic element yours you have to interpret it your way with your own approach.
This cannot be done when you are merely copying the idea. When copying the idea you are just doing everything exactly like it was previously done. When you have done it your way you have used the element and not simply duplicated it.
It is not required that you advance the element. You can go sideways and even backwards with the idea and you can be stealing the element and not copying it. On the contrary, when merely copying the element you have failed if you do not match the original.