Paying by check has one benefit. With the lack of security in many of these companies, at least your credit card info isn't stored on their servers if you pay with check. In the US some companies actually encourage you to set up a direct withdrawal from your bank account and others actually make you pay $10 to use a credit card on the phone.
I guess your going to be shocked that here in Germany, every company big and small prints their bank information on their letterhead and/or invoices. Bank name, bank ID number and your account holder number, has recently been replaced Europe-wide with an IBAN number that integrates all of the ID numbers into one.
So in Europe, how do businesses handle business to business payments?
Direct debit, dated debit, or repeated contract debit.... which is mandatory* for many transactions, like cell service and utilities. You can dispute charges to your account and have the bank reimburse you, naturally at immediate forfeiture of the service... and possible judicial proceedings and credit rating damage. Too often and a bank will drop your account.
Debit transactions ares mostly done with some form of online banking, whether through a bank's online portal or through authorized accounting software. Some individuals that don't have a computer still pay with a bank transaction at a teller, or at a terminal that is inside every bank. Payable to Person/Company, the IBAN number, the amount. The money transfer date is optional, otherwise it's within 2 working days of the transaction date. Within a bank's own network, it's for all intents and purposes immediate. If online banking... a generated PIN/TAN with a device like this that reads blinking bar codes is used. Accounting packages have this integrated with a 2-way terminal within the accounting department.
The way it is done in the US is usually by check. The vendor submits an invoice by mail and a check gets sent by mail within the due date. It is a very simple.... but VERY OLD and OUTDATED...process. Many smaller vendors do not accept credit cards, and arranging for direct deposit is complicated and often the vendor is reluctant to set it up. Checks and paper invoices are well suited for tax audits as well. Electronic payments are not always printed out.*** Here in the US the auditors do not have free access to your electronic bookkeeping unless there is some violation so good paper records are important.
***They are in Germany. It's the only proof you have in a dispute, and must be printed out on official bank printers within every branch.
While the auditors don't have immediate access to a companies bank accounts, accounting software is accredited AND one of them must be used to print an authorized return. The tax authority very well can request the accounting software's data on disk, but yes... it will also be cross-checked against a paper trail, which you are required by law to archive for 10 years (businesses). Individuals also do this just to save themselves trouble down the road if the auditor comes calling.
Just to be complete, there is also the Post Bank run by the post office, which is used by those that no longer can receive a private bank account. I personally have never needed them so i don't know all of the criteria, but I believe you can pay transactions in cash only(?)
OH... and cash transactions can be made at any time, but you need a receipt if you want to deduct it.... and I might add, it is often these that become problematic when your returns are being processed. It's not unheard of that tax returns are adjusted by the tax authority due to large cash payments, and then you as a business must come up with data or reasoning behind the transaction to be reimbursed. Bank transactions are the safer way to go. Cash transactions are also cross-reference between buyer and seller.
NOTE: the financial bedrock of Germany, for right or wrong, is built upon a very powerful and vigilant tax authority (Finanzamt if you're wondering). You DO NOT play around with them. With that said, I must also say that my personal dealings with them have been serious business, but altogether civil, knowledgeable, and downright friendly if you're not trying to screw around. Even "I didn't know that" is an acceptable answer... even if it will still cost you money.
Summary: checks are cute nostalgia for Americans.... everyone likes to throw their John Hancock around like a superstar... when all I can think of is "bouncing" balls bollocks.
Edited: shorter and possibly better replies above, while I was writing this bloody essay! :rolleyes:
Yeah, I suppose we all have bad teeth, live in castles and sound like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins.
No one uses checks (cheques). Many banks have stopped issuing check books years ago.
I've not paid for anything in cash in a shop for years and the majority of sales I have seen are through a credit or debit card.
We have a far higher rate of shops accepting wireless card payments, probably because we are further along the evolutionary scale when it comes to card payments. We had Chip & Pin first and it's only just about to land in the US so you are 11 years behind us already.
We have had contactless payment cards that use NFC since 2008 so the US is 6 years behind us there.
I seriously doubt there'll be many issues getting Europeans to swap from holding a card up to a machine and holding an iPhone up to the same machine. The issue is selling Apple products to the Europeans, not actually getting them to use the Apple products. In Europe, we pay a LOT more than you do.
America, so backwards and behind the times. Most Yanks still pay bills by cash or signing on a piece of paper. So last century.
But we have more debt than any country on Earth... oh, wait...
Summary: checks are cute nostalgia for Americans.... everyone likes to throw their John Hancock around like a superstar... when all I can think of is "bouncing" balls bollocks.
With many US companies two signatures are required if the amount is over $500.
Checks are free except for postage. At my bank, wire transfers are $10, or $45 for international, plus the recipient is also charged for receiving the money at his bank. The more complicated aspect is just setting up the wire transfer. If I hire a service company for a one time small job, I don't want to spend a half hour getting their account set up to pay him $100. That is one reason checks are still in use. They are supper convenient.
Thats because of vested interests.... Of course paying by electronic transfer is much more cost efficient than bank printing a cheque, bank recording all the numbers for security, payer writing the cheque, send by py post, receiver manually opening an envelope, taking cheque to the bank, the receiving bank scanning the cheque, shipping it back to the paying bank, paying bank checking the payers account balance, so that then the paying bank MAKES AN ELECTRONIC TRANSFER!
The fact that your bank charges you that amount, and that it takes you half an hour to "set up an account of someone you want to pay" (what does that even mean?) is insane.
When I want to pay someone from any of my European accounts (same in UK, Germany, Jersey, and Italy), I go into my bank's website, click "make a payment", then type in name, account number, sort code and amount to be paid, click "Pay", enter a one-time token code (if a new payee) and the money is there in about an hour. 3 minutes, no charge.
I was just in Ireland a week ago and had absolutely no problem using a credit card absolutely everywhere.
That said, I was warned in advance that I should have a chip in my card as they don't have the magnetic stripe readers anymore. This was B.S. If I'd had a chip I'd have had few chances to use it as all the terminals were (just like in the US) stripe readers.
I find it hard to believe that Germany is significantly behind Ireland in adoption of technology but I guess it could be true. I don't recall having trouble using a credit card in Germany when I was there 10 years ago though...
I actually live in Ireland and you are wrong about the chip readers not being readily available. Most of the terminals have a slot in the front which is not really visually obvious, while they also have a slot down the side to swipe a strip which is visually more obvious. Those same terminals are often contactless as well so you can just tap the screen with your card.
May I ask where you are in Europe? Here in Germany I haven't ran across a "contactless card" of any kind. Debit cards must be inserted into a terminal, pulled out then a PIN typed in. Sometimes they are signed in rare occurrences that the terminal or connection is problematic. Some small businesses don't have terminals.... but it is rare these days.
That's strange, I was in a Lidl store here in Ireland just this morning and they have the contactless card readers. I have three such cards in my wallet.
Thats because of vested interests.... Of course paying by electronic transfer is much more cost efficient than bank printing a cheque, bank recording all the numbers for security, payer writing the cheque, send by py post, receiver manually opening an envelope, taking cheque to the bank, the receiving bank scanning the cheque, shipping it back to the paying bank, paying bank checking the payers account balance, so that then the paying bank MAKES AN ELECTRONIC TRANSFER!
The fact that your bank charges you that amount, and that it takes you half an hour to "set up an account of someone you want to pay" (what does that even mean?) is insane.
When I want to pay someone from any of my European accounts (same in UK, Germany, Jersey, and Italy), I go into my bank's website, click "make a payment", then type in name, account number, sort code and amount to be paid, click "Pay", enter a one-time token code (if a new payee) and the money is there in about an hour. 3 minutes, no charge.
(It is really a bit surprising that for all the wealth in the US (and they are richer than anyone else in the world), the banking, health, aviation, road and telephone systems are terrible, the washing machines don't wash, the fruit is tasteless, the produce is bland, the cold cuts are watery, and clothes come from Europe. What DO they spend their money on?)
Great post!.... accept one slight correction: most clothes come from Bangladesh, but with a European label for the luxury up-sell.
Paying by check has another security "benefit": your full account information is printed on every one of them. With this knowledge alone, a thief can make an unauthorized wire transfer out of your account, no secret PIN required.
Really? That's not very secure where ever you live.
Since Apple announced its Watch I've been window shopping for Cartiers and Breitlings. Wonder how many are in same boat and how that will impact sales of Apple Watch and watches in general?
Not at all: those brands do two things: tell date and time and look pretty (I'm leaving off the ego self-stroking), while the Apple Watch is a computer with a variety of selectable functions. Hence the "smart" in smartwatch. IMHO despite the name it's no more a "watch" than an iPhone is a "phone".
(It is really a bit surprising that for all the wealth in the US (and they are richer than anyone else in the world), the banking, health, aviation, road and telephone systems are terrible, the washing machines don't wash, the fruit is tasteless, the produce is bland, the cold cuts are watery, and clothes come from Europe. What DO they spend their money on?)
For those using the London Underground in the UK, you can now use a contactless payment card. When using Contactless payment cards you will be charged an adult-rate pay as you go fare, the same as the London Underground contactless Oyster. How convenient it would be if travellers could use an Apple Watch to pay.
America, so backwards and behind the times. Most Yanks still pay bills by cash or signing on a piece of paper. So last century.
As a Comcast ISP customer, I just this morning switched to using checks to pay them, because their $#% website regularly fails with Safari on 10.6.8. Has done so for 3 years; they been promising to fix it for 3 years. Last month I had to argue for 10 minutes on the phone to get them to waive a $5.95 "convenience fee" for paying by phone when the website kept looping back to the same page on one phase of the transaction, no error message anywhere on-screen.
They're my ISP and they're the only website I deal with regularly that can't handle Safari! I REALLY hate Comcast.
That's strange, I was in a Lidl store here in Ireland just this morning and they have the contactless card readers. I have three such cards in my wallet.
I also do my grocery shopping at Lidl... and I haven't seen contactless payment at the 3 stores I frequent. In fact I'm often the only person i notice paying with a debit card rather than cash. Again... I really think it has to do with the banks here.
As a Comcast ISP customer, I just this morning switched to using checks to pay them, because their $#% website regularly fails with Safari on 10.6.8. Has done so for 3 years; they been promising to fix it for 3 years. Last month I had to argue for 10 minutes on the phone to get them to waive a $5.95 "convenience fee" for paying by phone when the website kept looping back to the same page on one phase of the transaction, no error message anywhere on-screen.
They're my ISP and they're the only website I deal with regularly that can't handle Safari! I REALLY hate Comcast.
Thank you, I feel better now.
If I'm understanding correctly... you pay at the Comcast website? Every month? With a credit card or a pay option/window to your bank/checking account or for example PayPal?
Not that surprising knowing that most Europeans use credit cards that use PIN codes which are already very secure. But I'm sure that once European consumers realize that Apple Pay (and others) are superior to physical cards (auto renewal, single transaction token) and not merely gadgets that only remove the need for an actual card, they'll understand.
Soooo you obviously have electricity then too? Cool!
Actually, I love Yorkshire but when I was dragged kicking and screaming to London as a 10 year old, I was informed by the local tribes there that north of Watford was woad country still ... just before they beat the crap out of me for saying grass with a short 'A' and that was the teachers!.
BTW I assume I can still play for Yorkshire, even though I am an American Citizen now ... right?
You are aware that Europe brought you Spotify, Angry Birds, Skype, Netscape, Clash of Clans, and the entire mobile telephony industry rests on the shoulders of Nokia and Ericsson?
Soooo you obviously have electricity then too? Cool!
Actually, I love Yorkshire but when I was dragged kicking and screaming to London as a 10 year old, I was informed by the local tribes there that north of Watford was woad country still ... just before they beat the crap out of me for saying grass with a short 'A' and that was the teachers!.
BTW I assume I can still play for Yorkshire, even though I am an American Citizen now ... right?
Comments
I guess your going to be shocked that here in Germany, every company big and small prints their bank information on their letterhead and/or invoices. Bank name, bank ID number and your account holder number, has recently been replaced Europe-wide with an IBAN number that integrates all of the ID numbers into one.
Direct debit, dated debit, or repeated contract debit.... which is mandatory* for many transactions, like cell service and utilities. You can dispute charges to your account and have the bank reimburse you, naturally at immediate forfeiture of the service... and possible judicial proceedings and credit rating damage. Too often and a bank will drop your account.
Debit transactions ares mostly done with some form of online banking, whether through a bank's online portal or through authorized accounting software. Some individuals that don't have a computer still pay with a bank transaction at a teller, or at a terminal that is inside every bank. Payable to Person/Company, the IBAN number, the amount. The money transfer date is optional, otherwise it's within 2 working days of the transaction date. Within a bank's own network, it's for all intents and purposes immediate. If online banking... a generated PIN/TAN with a device like this that reads blinking bar codes is used. Accounting packages have this integrated with a 2-way terminal within the accounting department.
***They are in Germany. It's the only proof you have in a dispute, and must be printed out on official bank printers within every branch.
While the auditors don't have immediate access to a companies bank accounts, accounting software is accredited AND one of them must be used to print an authorized return. The tax authority very well can request the accounting software's data on disk, but yes... it will also be cross-checked against a paper trail, which you are required by law to archive for 10 years (businesses). Individuals also do this just to save themselves trouble down the road if the auditor comes calling.
Just to be complete, there is also the Post Bank run by the post office, which is used by those that no longer can receive a private bank account. I personally have never needed them so i don't know all of the criteria, but I believe you can pay transactions in cash only(?)
OH... and cash transactions can be made at any time, but you need a receipt if you want to deduct it.... and I might add, it is often these that become problematic when your returns are being processed. It's not unheard of that tax returns are adjusted by the tax authority due to large cash payments, and then you as a business must come up with data or reasoning behind the transaction to be reimbursed. Bank transactions are the safer way to go. Cash transactions are also cross-reference between buyer and seller.
NOTE: the financial bedrock of Germany, for right or wrong, is built upon a very powerful and vigilant tax authority (Finanzamt if you're wondering). You DO NOT play around with them. With that said, I must also say that my personal dealings with them have been serious business, but altogether civil, knowledgeable, and downright friendly if you're not trying to screw around. Even "I didn't know that" is an acceptable answer... even if it will still cost you money.
Summary: checks are cute nostalgia for Americans.... everyone likes to throw their John Hancock around like a superstar... when all I can think of is "bouncing"
ballsbollocks.Edited: shorter and possibly better replies above, while I was writing this bloody essay! :rolleyes:
But we have more debt than any country on Earth... oh, wait...
Summary: checks are cute nostalgia for Americans.... everyone likes to throw their John Hancock around like a superstar... when all I can think of is "bouncing" balls bollocks.
With many US companies two signatures are required if the amount is over $500.
Checks are free except for postage. At my bank, wire transfers are $10, or $45 for international, plus the recipient is also charged for receiving the money at his bank. The more complicated aspect is just setting up the wire transfer. If I hire a service company for a one time small job, I don't want to spend a half hour getting their account set up to pay him $100. That is one reason checks are still in use. They are supper convenient.
Thats because of vested interests.... Of course paying by electronic transfer is much more cost efficient than bank printing a cheque, bank recording all the numbers for security, payer writing the cheque, send by py post, receiver manually opening an envelope, taking cheque to the bank, the receiving bank scanning the cheque, shipping it back to the paying bank, paying bank checking the payers account balance, so that then the paying bank MAKES AN ELECTRONIC TRANSFER!
The fact that your bank charges you that amount, and that it takes you half an hour to "set up an account of someone you want to pay" (what does that even mean?) is insane.
When I want to pay someone from any of my European accounts (same in UK, Germany, Jersey, and Italy), I go into my bank's website, click "make a payment", then type in name, account number, sort code and amount to be paid, click "Pay", enter a one-time token code (if a new payee) and the money is there in about an hour. 3 minutes, no charge.
I was just in Ireland a week ago and had absolutely no problem using a credit card absolutely everywhere.
That said, I was warned in advance that I should have a chip in my card as they don't have the magnetic stripe readers anymore. This was B.S. If I'd had a chip I'd have had few chances to use it as all the terminals were (just like in the US) stripe readers.
I find it hard to believe that Germany is significantly behind Ireland in adoption of technology but I guess it could be true. I don't recall having trouble using a credit card in Germany when I was there 10 years ago though...
I actually live in Ireland and you are wrong about the chip readers not being readily available. Most of the terminals have a slot in the front which is not really visually obvious, while they also have a slot down the side to swipe a strip which is visually more obvious. Those same terminals are often contactless as well so you can just tap the screen with your card.
May I ask where you are in Europe? Here in Germany I haven't ran across a "contactless card" of any kind. Debit cards must be inserted into a terminal, pulled out then a PIN typed in. Sometimes they are signed in rare occurrences that the terminal or connection is problematic. Some small businesses don't have terminals.... but it is rare these days.
That's strange, I was in a Lidl store here in Ireland just this morning and they have the contactless card readers. I have three such cards in my wallet.
Great post!.... accept one slight correction: most clothes come from Bangladesh, but with a European label for the luxury up-sell.
Really? That's not very secure where ever you live.
Since Apple announced its Watch I've been window shopping for Cartiers and Breitlings. Wonder how many are in same boat and how that will impact sales of Apple Watch and watches in general?
Not at all: those brands do two things: tell date and time and look pretty (I'm leaving off the ego self-stroking), while the Apple Watch is a computer with a variety of selectable functions. Hence the "smart" in smartwatch. IMHO despite the name it's no more a "watch" than an iPhone is a "phone".
(It is really a bit surprising that for all the wealth in the US (and they are richer than anyone else in the world), the banking, health, aviation, road and telephone systems are terrible, the washing machines don't wash, the fruit is tasteless, the produce is bland, the cold cuts are watery, and clothes come from Europe. What DO they spend their money on?)
Thanks for leaving our beer out of it.
For those using the London Underground in the UK, you can now use a contactless payment card. When using Contactless payment cards you will be charged an adult-rate pay as you go fare, the same as the London Underground contactless Oyster. How convenient it would be if travellers could use an Apple Watch to pay.
...
America, so backwards and behind the times. Most Yanks still pay bills by cash or signing on a piece of paper. So last century.
As a Comcast ISP customer, I just this morning switched to using checks to pay them, because their $#% website regularly fails with Safari on 10.6.8. Has done so for 3 years; they been promising to fix it for 3 years. Last month I had to argue for 10 minutes on the phone to get them to waive a $5.95 "convenience fee" for paying by phone when the website kept looping back to the same page on one phase of the transaction, no error message anywhere on-screen.
They're my ISP and they're the only website I deal with regularly that can't handle Safari! I REALLY hate Comcast.
Thank you, I feel better now.
I also do my grocery shopping at Lidl... and I haven't seen contactless payment at the 3 stores I frequent. In fact I'm often the only person i notice paying with a debit card rather than cash. Again... I really think it has to do with the banks here.
If I'm understanding correctly... you pay at the Comcast website? Every month? With a credit card or a pay option/window to your bank/checking account or for example PayPal?
Interesting to say the least.
Actually, you and they probably could...
:rolleyes:
But I'm sure that once European consumers realize that Apple Pay (and others) are superior to physical cards (auto renewal, single transaction token) and not merely gadgets that only remove the need for an actual card, they'll understand.
Soooo you obviously have electricity then too? Cool!
Actually, I love Yorkshire but when I was dragged kicking and screaming to London as a 10 year old, I was informed by the local tribes there that north of Watford was woad country still ... just before they beat the crap out of me for saying grass with a short 'A' and that was the teachers!.
BTW I assume I can still play for Yorkshire, even though I am an American Citizen now ... right?
Europeans have better taste than Americans or Asians. I would choose Swissmade over a Casio clone anytime too.
You are aware that Europe brought you Spotify, Angry Birds, Skype, Netscape, Clash of Clans, and the entire mobile telephony industry rests on the shoulders of Nokia and Ericsson?
You must be pudding him on.