In what way Mel? Apple stores CC numbers for iTunes yet I've never seen you post any worries about them being hacked. I assume you happily have one of your own credit cards on file with them. Google's servers are no less secure than Apple's AFAIK.
It's not that Google's back end is less secure, it's that Google's business model is to sell or share your data with the retailers. That creates a middle man and another set of servers that your data resides on. The big retailers all do this so they all have your CC data too. That includes Target, Home Depot and many more that have been recently hacked.
Apple Pay can give nothing important to the merchants. Data is only between the user and the issuing cards/banks.
It's a common misconception that Google Wallet uses tokenization in a secure manner. It does not use it in the way Apple Pay, and the new system that is in place does. The "token" Google uses is reusable, it's not a cone time token. As such, if you transaction is broken I to, as can be done with a portable NFC reader, a major security problem with NFC, that token might be usable for another transaction. The standard Apple Jesus, which apparently has been developed with Apple's input, is a one time token, even if it's intercepted, it can't be used.
Google has all of your credit card and transaction data. Apple (nor the retailers) have anything.
The simple fact that Google has the data makes it less secure. Google is not immune to hacking, nor is Google immune to an employee with access deciding to perform an inside job.
In what way Mel? Apple stores CC numbers for iTunes yet I've never seen you post any worries about them being hacked. I assume you happily have one of your own credit cards on file with them. Google's servers are no less secure than Apple's AFAIK.
Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook. Walmart, Target, Newegg, Macys, Banana Republic, Dell and countless other sites will allow you to store a CC number on their site. Not a big deal (in terms of choosing to keep it on file since you're already making a purchase through their site required you to input your card data into their site.
?Pay does not store all your cards on Apple's servers, while Google Wallet does store all your cards on Google's servers. That's a huge difference.
Me, except for having an Amazon card for Amazon purchases, I have intentionally low-value card that I use for internet-based purchases specifically because any entity with an online presence has the potential to be hacked. With ?Pay that is not an issue for all my other cards since they have never been stored online by a 3rd-party or gone through a 3rd-party's servers, and never will.
I've also stated several times that I hope Apple works with banks even more to evolve ?Pay so that when we do use a website for a payment that merchant can be given a one-time representational card number that only works with that online retailer.
PPS: If you don't want to store that one card on file for iTunes Store purchases you could have simply bought a GC with cash and used that to fund your account.
I'm not the one who said security is the most important thing. If security is the most important thing, then Apple ][ must not ever hand a credit card to a server, right?
You are going overboard with you statements, and you know it. This is the real world that most of us live in. We can do what is allowable, and available. Credit cards are safer, and mire secure, in that you don't have to carry thousands in cash with you when making a big purchase. Google wallet is safer, and more secure, than credit cards, and Apple Pay is safer and more secure than Google Wallet. You don't have to like that, and you can squirm around in attempting to believe otherwise, but too bad.
But much less secure. I just saw your PIN over your shoulder. Can you see my thumbprint?
That is true. When I'm at the local supermarket, I hate entering in my pin with people standing all around me, to my left, to my right, behind me, and basically everywhere.
Google has all of your credit card and transaction data. Apple (nor the retailers) have anything.
The simple fact that Google has the data makes it less secure. Google is not immune to hacking, nor is Google immune to an employee with access deciding to perform an inside job.
Try reading the post. I was responding to another commenter saying that Google's back end is less secure than Apple's (iTunes) back end. Both have our CC numbers so they are both the same unless you know something that is inherently insecure about Google servers.
Now if we're talking specifically about Apple Pay vs. Google Wallet, that is something different which I already covered.
Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook. Walmart, Target, Newegg, Macys, Banana Republic, Dell and countless other sites will allow you to store a CC number on their site. Not a big deal (in terms of choosing to keep it on file since you're already making a purchase through their site required you to input your card data into their site.
I do think that it is a big deal. Stores store your info, even if you don't ask them to or want them to.
What about that recent huge Home Depot breach? Anybody who merely swiped their card in one of their stores could have been affected! I was at Home Depot a few months before I heard about that huge breach on the news! I will not be using any card at any Home Depot anymore, because they have shown that they are not to be trusted.
I certainly don't want my personal info and every transaction that I make to be stored on some store's insecure and hacker friendly system.
I don't want every site that I purchase from to store my info. You are only increasing the chances of something bad happening by a factor of hundreds!
Even though it wasn't on the launch list, I was able to use Apple Pay at Home Depot yesterday. I believe Home Depot is on the future implementation list, so this store may have already had the equipment installed.
There's no reason to debate the Google privacy stuff here. We're clearly on opposite sides of that issue, but that's not an issue. The point is that Google's services work, they work well, and they're convenient (for me, at least). They aren't free, and I don't claim otherwise.
I'm sorry you've been hacked. I haven't. Social engineering isn't going to gain anyone access to any of my accounts. You gotta crack that password.
Stealing my phone, well, personal security aside, I'm an avid Tasker user. There are tons of creative security solutions out there to prevent access using tasker. My phone will wipe itself instantly if it receives a certain text message. I can send that text from a stranger's phone while the guy is still running down the block (assuming he survived the theft itself). Unless I'm unconscious, the thief will not have time to figure out a passcode on a phone connected to my accounts.
Not many Wallet users? Ok. The stupidity or brilliance of other Android users or iPhone users is not my concern.
I agree that the Wallet solution is less secure than Apple Pay, and I think that Apple Pay will bring the popularity of these systems way up, and everyone will benefit. Wallet is secure enough though. I do think that people who shun Google solutions just because they're Google solutions are deluded.
Don't try to move the discussion away from its more important parts. Of course Google privacy "stuff" is important. When it becomes part of the transaction, it is important. Why should Goog,e know what I'm buying, where, how much, what time, etc? That's none of their business, and it makes the transaction much less secure. Google,s servers have been hacked into many times. At least once a year, they get breaches in their GMail accounts, etc. Why should we believe that their transaction processing isn't going to be broken into? As imperfect as it may be, I still trust the credit card companies and banks more than Google.
I think that people who shun Apple's solutions are deluded.
Funny. It's what you don't see that get's you. Google loans you the funds, then records the transaction. 20 days later you will start getting mail from McDonalds.
I'm sorry, why is this obsolete, insecure, ineffective version being shown here? No one cares.
Because it's current, secure, and effective, just like Apple Pay.
Mmm ...
From what I've read, it isn't private, though!
Google, the merchant, the processor and the bank (and any hackers) have full access to your credit card data -- that's why it is limited to small purchases.
Really? You don't have to open Wallet. You don't have to pre-load Wallet with funds. I've already owned unlocking the phone and entering the Wallet PIN. Both systems require the phone near the terminal. What did I miss?
What has to be pointed out about Android, even though we all know it, is that many people don't have the ability to use the latest and the greatest. I know people who do have to do those things, because they are stuck with older forms of Google wallet, because their phones haven't yet been able to get the latest from Google. That will be true for some time. So, yes, there are many people who must unlock their phone then unlock Wallet. There are some that still must load their app with money, etc. I hope, for their sake, when they get new phones, that will disappear.
But I'm always amused when Android users point to the latest OS upgrade, and act as though that solves everyone's problems. Considering that most Android users will never be able to upgrade to that latest version, it solves few people's problems. That's the same thing as here. Im not goi g to pretend to know, with detail, every point of interest to every Andoud upgrade. Even Android users can't say they know that. But I've been following Google Wallet since it first was announced. It's gone through a nunber of changes. It's better now, but many people need to use older versions.
It's a common misconception that Google Wallet uses tokenization in a secure manner. It does not use it in the way Apple Pay, and the new system that is in place does. The "token" Google uses is reusable, it's not a cone time token. As such, if you transaction is broken I to, as can be done with a portable NFC reader, a major security problem with NFC, that token might be usable for another transaction. The standard Apple Jesus, which apparently has been developed with Apple's input, is a one time token, even if it's intercepted, it can't be used.
Google Wallet uses a HCE system that definitely generates a one-time token. Essentially the difference between HCE and SE (what Apple uses, and Google used to use before it supported HCE) is that with SE this unique token is generated locally while with HCE it's generated in the cloud and send to the device.
What has to be pointed out about Android, even though we all know it, is that many people don't have the ability to use the latest and the greatest. I know people who do have to do those things, because they are stuck with older forms of Google wallet, because their phones haven't yet been able to get the latest from Google.
Mel, are you doing any background reading before making some of your recent comments on how Google Wallet works and what the requirements are?
The current version of Google Wallet is compatible with any Google Android phone running 2.3 or higher. That's means essentially all of "em Mel. Like with Apple Pay the other half of the requirement, NFC, may not be part of the device's hardware tho. Note that it's not at all unusual to find three year old Android smartphones with NFC so I'd guess far more smartphones are compatible with Google Wallet than not.
Personally I don't see any reason for the thread to have veered off into a Google discussion in the first place (Waterrockets perhaps), or why so many are seemingly anxious to tie Apple success with Apple Pay into a grudge match with Google Wallet. Quite obviously a rising tide lifts all ships, so the other half+ of the market that uses a different OS will see greater uptake of virtual wallets too. Until Apple came on board there was no big incentive for the providers and retailers to make the necessary changes. With the perfect storm of recent data hacks adding to the advantages now there is.
Apple Pay is a well-timed and thought-out feature. Kudos to Apple for that.
Also...I just noticed that the article said that it took longer for the employee to hand the receipt than it took for ApplePay to execute the transaction...receipt? Why not email the receipt?
This will come to pass in some form or the other ...
SPS Pay (Simple Private Secure) with ApplePay
receive itemized digital receipt (secure encrypted WiFi or email)
receipt contains UPCs * for line items when available (Merchant SKUs * if not)
digital receipts will be automatically input into merchant-supplied rewards (earned/scheduled) apps
digital receipts will be automatically input into bank-supplied rewards (earned/scheduled) apps
digital receipts will be automatically input into merchant supplied Budget/Expense app
* UPCs and SKUs will allow granular expense accounting and budgeting by category, e.g. food; household supplies; healthcare ...
All apps will have up-to-the-second data -- for personal and business transactions.
Merchants and Banks will compete to provide to provide these services and rewards.
I set up my ?Pay yesterday although I haven't used it yet, but I think we will all be carrying around our real plastic for a good long while even if we do use ?Pay when available. There is going to be considerable overlap where we will still need the physical card at times. For some things having the actual plastic is more convenient. As far as security is concerned, it varies from Apple's secure tokens all the way down to writing your card number on a reply form and mailing it, and then there's everything in between that we've all been using for years, like giving someone your number over the phone.
I set up my ?Pay yesterday although I haven't used it yet, but I think we will all be carrying around our real plastic for a good long while even if we do use ?Pay when available. There is going to be considerable overlap where we will still need the physical card at times. For some things having the actual plastic is more convenient. As far as security is concerned, it varies from Apple's secure tokens all the way down to writing your card number on a reply form and mailing it, and then there's everything in between that we've all been using for years, like giving someone your number over the phone.
Nah!
Physical cards are [or soon will be] history -- for savvy consumers.
Nobody goes out and about without their phone. iPhone 6 owners won't need to carry credit cards ... owners of other phones will.
And paying with ApplePay will be [monetarily] rewarding as well as convent!
This is probably a really stupid question so please forgive me. If a store accepts wireless payments but isn't on the list of supported stores BUT you have your credit card in Apple Pay, can you use it there?
. No it's not a stupid question I thought the same thing I see a lot more stores that have this logo that apple didn't mention so I tried it I went to CVS and paid for my prescription using apple pay. I only had one issue I jumped the gun by pressing Apple pay when the pharmacist was just asking me to sign for the prescription and the phone made the sound and vibrated and the check mark came on the screen. The pharmacist said oh no it's just asking for your approval for the meds so I did it agiain when the pad said swipe card to pay, once again it vibrated and dinged and the check mark came out. I was worried I was charged twice but it didn't; I called the card company and they said they only saw one charge from cvs. The pharmacist asked what app did I have lol.
Comments
In what way Mel? Apple stores CC numbers for iTunes yet I've never seen you post any worries about them being hacked. I assume you happily have one of your own credit cards on file with them. Google's servers are no less secure than Apple's AFAIK.
It's not that Google's back end is less secure, it's that Google's business model is to sell or share your data with the retailers. That creates a middle man and another set of servers that your data resides on. The big retailers all do this so they all have your CC data too. That includes Target, Home Depot and many more that have been recently hacked.
Apple Pay can give nothing important to the merchants. Data is only between the user and the issuing cards/banks.
It's a common misconception that Google Wallet uses tokenization in a secure manner. It does not use it in the way Apple Pay, and the new system that is in place does. The "token" Google uses is reusable, it's not a cone time token. As such, if you transaction is broken I to, as can be done with a portable NFC reader, a major security problem with NFC, that token might be usable for another transaction. The standard Apple Jesus, which apparently has been developed with Apple's input, is a one time token, even if it's intercepted, it can't be used.
The virtual credit card in Wallet is one-time.
It's not that Google's back end is less secure
It is fundamentally less secure.
Google has all of your credit card and transaction data. Apple (nor the retailers) have anything.
The simple fact that Google has the data makes it less secure. Google is not immune to hacking, nor is Google immune to an employee with access deciding to perform an inside job.
Mel, according to Google payment credentials are tokenized and valid for only a single transaction.
http://www.google.com/wallet/faq.html#tab=faq-security
Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook. Walmart, Target, Newegg, Macys, Banana Republic, Dell and countless other sites will allow you to store a CC number on their site. Not a big deal (in terms of choosing to keep it on file since you're already making a purchase through their site required you to input your card data into their site.
?Pay does not store all your cards on Apple's servers, while Google Wallet does store all your cards on Google's servers. That's a huge difference.
Me, except for having an Amazon card for Amazon purchases, I have intentionally low-value card that I use for internet-based purchases specifically because any entity with an online presence has the potential to be hacked. With ?Pay that is not an issue for all my other cards since they have never been stored online by a 3rd-party or gone through a 3rd-party's servers, and never will.
I've also stated several times that I hope Apple works with banks even more to evolve ?Pay so that when we do use a website for a payment that merchant can be given a one-time representational card number that only works with that online retailer.
PPS: If you don't want to store that one card on file for iTunes Store purchases you could have simply bought a GC with cash and used that to fund your account.
You are going overboard with you statements, and you know it. This is the real world that most of us live in. We can do what is allowable, and available. Credit cards are safer, and mire secure, in that you don't have to carry thousands in cash with you when making a big purchase. Google wallet is safer, and more secure, than credit cards, and Apple Pay is safer and more secure than Google Wallet. You don't have to like that, and you can squirm around in attempting to believe otherwise, but too bad.
But much less secure. I just saw your PIN over your shoulder. Can you see my thumbprint?
That is true. When I'm at the local supermarket, I hate entering in my pin with people standing all around me, to my left, to my right, behind me, and basically everywhere.
It is fundamentally less secure.
Google has all of your credit card and transaction data. Apple (nor the retailers) have anything.
The simple fact that Google has the data makes it less secure. Google is not immune to hacking, nor is Google immune to an employee with access deciding to perform an inside job.
Try reading the post. I was responding to another commenter saying that Google's back end is less secure than Apple's (iTunes) back end. Both have our CC numbers so they are both the same unless you know something that is inherently insecure about Google servers.
Now if we're talking specifically about Apple Pay vs. Google Wallet, that is something different which I already covered.
Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook. Walmart, Target, Newegg, Macys, Banana Republic, Dell and countless other sites will allow you to store a CC number on their site. Not a big deal (in terms of choosing to keep it on file since you're already making a purchase through their site required you to input your card data into their site.
I do think that it is a big deal. Stores store your info, even if you don't ask them to or want them to.
What about that recent huge Home Depot breach? Anybody who merely swiped their card in one of their stores could have been affected! I was at Home Depot a few months before I heard about that huge breach on the news! I will not be using any card at any Home Depot anymore, because they have shown that they are not to be trusted.
I certainly don't want my personal info and every transaction that I make to be stored on some store's insecure and hacker friendly system.
I don't want every site that I purchase from to store my info. You are only increasing the chances of something bad happening by a factor of hundreds!
Don't try to move the discussion away from its more important parts. Of course Google privacy "stuff" is important. When it becomes part of the transaction, it is important. Why should Goog,e know what I'm buying, where, how much, what time, etc? That's none of their business, and it makes the transaction much less secure. Google,s servers have been hacked into many times. At least once a year, they get breaches in their GMail accounts, etc. Why should we believe that their transaction processing isn't going to be broken into? As imperfect as it may be, I still trust the credit card companies and banks more than Google.
I think that people who shun Apple's solutions are deluded.
Yep, that's about how it's supposed to look
Funny. It's what you don't see that get's you. Google loans you the funds, then records the transaction. 20 days later you will start getting mail from McDonalds.
Mmm ...
From what I've read, it isn't private, though!
Google, the merchant, the processor and the bank (and any hackers) have full access to your credit card data -- that's why it is limited to small purchases.
What has to be pointed out about Android, even though we all know it, is that many people don't have the ability to use the latest and the greatest. I know people who do have to do those things, because they are stuck with older forms of Google wallet, because their phones haven't yet been able to get the latest from Google. That will be true for some time. So, yes, there are many people who must unlock their phone then unlock Wallet. There are some that still must load their app with money, etc. I hope, for their sake, when they get new phones, that will disappear.
But I'm always amused when Android users point to the latest OS upgrade, and act as though that solves everyone's problems. Considering that most Android users will never be able to upgrade to that latest version, it solves few people's problems. That's the same thing as here. Im not goi g to pretend to know, with detail, every point of interest to every Andoud upgrade. Even Android users can't say they know that. But I've been following Google Wallet since it first was announced. It's gone through a nunber of changes. It's better now, but many people need to use older versions.
Mel, are you doing any background reading before making some of your recent comments on how Google Wallet works and what the requirements are?
The current version of Google Wallet is compatible with any Google Android phone running 2.3 or higher. That's means essentially all of "em Mel. Like with Apple Pay the other half of the requirement, NFC, may not be part of the device's hardware tho. Note that it's not at all unusual to find three year old Android smartphones with NFC so I'd guess far more smartphones are compatible with Google Wallet than not.
Personally I don't see any reason for the thread to have veered off into a Google discussion in the first place (Waterrockets perhaps), or why so many are seemingly anxious to tie Apple success with Apple Pay into a grudge match with Google Wallet. Quite obviously a rising tide lifts all ships, so the other half+ of the market that uses a different OS will see greater uptake of virtual wallets too. Until Apple came on board there was no big incentive for the providers and retailers to make the necessary changes. With the perfect storm of recent data hacks adding to the advantages now there is.
Apple Pay is a well-timed and thought-out feature. Kudos to Apple for that.
This will come to pass in some form or the other ...
* UPCs and SKUs will allow granular expense accounting and budgeting by category, e.g. food; household supplies; healthcare ...
All apps will have up-to-the-second data -- for personal and business transactions.
Merchants and Banks will compete to provide to provide these services and rewards.
I set up my ?Pay yesterday although I haven't used it yet, but I think we will all be carrying around our real plastic for a good long while even if we do use ?Pay when available. There is going to be considerable overlap where we will still need the physical card at times. For some things having the actual plastic is more convenient. As far as security is concerned, it varies from Apple's secure tokens all the way down to writing your card number on a reply form and mailing it, and then there's everything in between that we've all been using for years, like giving someone your number over the phone.
Nah!
Physical cards are [or soon will be] history -- for savvy consumers.
Nobody goes out and about without their phone. iPhone 6 owners won't need to carry credit cards ... owners of other phones will.
And paying with ApplePay will be [monetarily] rewarding as well as convent!