Used it at Whole Foods last night. It was so simple I wasn't sure it had even worked ... But was then surprised that I sti had to sign for the purchase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
What? Why? A signature in addition to Apple Pay is a bit backward.
That's BS man. That's one of the steps Apple Pay is supposed to eliminate. The cashier was probably confused.
****Also people are talking about paper receipts but I could have sworn during the iPhone 6 keynote they showed a notification confirming payment sent to the iPhone along with a digital receipt.
I think that the majority of the Android devices out there suck -- because of the "skinning" and update delays. I'm just not interested in any of it. I was excited about the Nexus 6 before it was announced, but then they only have a phablet form factor. I'm not keen on carrying that on bike rides in my jersey pocket... I don't think. Nexus 5 is getting old (though better than my current Nexus 4), but is unavailable right now. Google Play Edition phones are limited selection, but would work (HTC One M8... maybe) -- and they have timely updates and no skinning.
...this is nothing new. In fact, it’s been around for years for Android users. The problem was (and still is) that your average Android user either doesn’t know about it, or can’t use it. Google Wallet was on the leading edge of mobile payments, but a combined lack of marketing, lack of hype, and lack of availability have left it as a niche feature only available for a tiny percentage of Android users. Unless you own a Nexus device you’ve probably never seen Google Wallet on your device. And even if you’re the adventurous type and attempt to download it from Google Play, unless you’re on Sprint your carrier won’t support it on non-Nexus devices...
Wallet, while safer than the swipe-and-sign method, is still less secure than Apple Pay. Apple Pay creates a one-time use token that is passed to credit card companies for approval, and it does not include the user’s account number. Google Wallet also doesn’t pass along the user’s credit card number, but instead creates a virtual card number that is passed along for authorization. Google will likely need to update Google Wallet to the same token system in order to garner the support of credit card companies...
Plainly put, Apple Pay is now the de-facto standard for mobile payments security, and any other competition will need to adopt similar systems and measures. But I fully expect Google to make these adjustments, and quickly, to stymie the Apple Pay rise.
So hold on Android users, Google Wallet is coming soon to a Galaxy phone near you. But if you’re the impatient type, this is just yet another reason why a Nexus 6 needs to be on your wish list.
So, no, Google Wallet isn't "just like Apple Pay". But now that Apple Pay is out, Google will try hard to make it that way.
Unless you own a Nexus device you’ve probably never seen Google Wallet on your device. And even if you’re the adventurous type and attempt to download it from Google Play, unless you’re on Sprint your carrier won’t support it on non-Nexus devices
So, no, Google Wallet isn't "just like Apple Pay". But now that Apple Pay is out, Google will try hard to make it that way.
Weird that folks not on Sprint and not using Nexus devices still use Google Wallet. :rolleyes:
Completely agree on the marketing comment tho. Google doesn't have the kind of marketing savvy network that Apple does. That's why until they came around similar services from companies like Google and PayPal were not going to see much success.
Weird that folks not on Sprint and not using Nexus devices still use Google Wallet.
Completely agree on the marketing comment tho. Google doesn't have the kind of marketing savvy network that Apple does. That's why until they came around similar services from companies like Google and PayPal were not going to see much success.
Correct. Practically any Android device sold in the US now can have Google Wallet. Has been like that for a couple of years.
Still, Apple Pay is better and I'm excited that it's finally come out as this will help speed up adoption nation wide.
Physical cards are [or soon will be] history -- for savvy consumers.
Nobody goes out and about without their phone. iPhone 6 owners won't need to carry credit cards ... owners of other phones will.
And paying with ApplePay will be [monetarily] rewarding as well as convent!
I have to agree with him on this. It will take a long time before credit cards are obsolete. I assume that you do know this. While there are about 220,000 terminals that can accept this once they are updated to do so, it's estimated that there are between 10 and 15 million point of purchase sites in retail around the country. Almost all accept credit cards, and all accept cash.
Around the world, the situation is the same. Apple Pay will take some time to roll out to every country, a few years for many, a decade, or more for most everywhere else, and possibly forever for some spots, where cash will always be required.
Maybe I was a little flippant in my response.
But, consider this ...
You're in a inn outside of Geneva. You are carrying two credit cards -- Amex and Visa. The inn doesn't take Amex and the Visa won't scan.
What do you/they do?
Either pencil-rub or copy the info from the card to a receipt and call it in manually.
So, the ability to scan a card is convenient -- but not absolutely required.
Now, consider how easy it was to enter your cards into iWallet for Apple Pay -- the camera scans the card and captures the data (you manually enter the auth code). Who's to say Apple or some developer can't duplicate that scan and capture capability and just securely store the images of the cards on the phone.
So when you are not able to use Apple Pay, you just pull up the picture of the desired card -- the merchant copies it as if the card wouldn't scan ...
Just as Inconvnient as above, and works just as well (and the merchant doesn't get access to any personal data).
Google uses a more basic system that substitutes a card number for a virtual MasterCard that is used for the transaction. It’s not as secure as the token-based system used by Apple, and Anderson said he expects Google to adopt the newer tokenization technology.
There’s also a fairly big privacy gap between Apple and Google. Apple doesn’t see all of the transactions being made with Apple Pay, but Google does see what its Google Wallet users are buying and where those transactions are taking place. So success for Apple Pay could push Google to give its users a bit more privacy.
Well, Google Wallet only works when an NFC-equipped Android phone is near a terminal that accepts MasterCard’s PayPass. But even if you have an Android phone with NFC, some carriers restrict your ability to make contactless purchases. Why? Carriers like AT&T and Verizon back another NFC payment system called Softcard, which launched last year as Isis Wallet and rebranded last month.
Weird that so many tech writers are wrong, and some poster named Gatorguy is the only one that knows the real story.
So both systems are better than physically giving your CC anyway.
I fundamentally disagree. Google Wallet has moved the mass collection of data from data sets only available to the individual retailers to a "total data set" that Google is attempting to have about all purchasing. It's absolutely terrible. Even if you trust Google, it's a single source of all information. That's essentially a terrible situation.
Weird that so many tech writers are wrong, and some poster named Gatorguy is the only one that knows the real story.
Gatorguy is correct. Google updated Google Wallet to use HCE to get around the carriers because they suck so bad. You can buy any new Android phone and use Google Wallet with no issues.
Apple Pay is still better. I use both tho, so it's of no concern to me.
Yes there is. Google Wallet already uses tokens, having moved to Host Card Emulation (HCE) several months ago. I'll try to clarify something that might be confusing some of those sources you're quoting.
While Google Wallet definitely uses a secure transaction procedure, one devised and approved by the same folks who worked with Apple on their version of digital payments, tap and pay will no longer work on ALL Google Android devices because of it. That particular feature requires Android 4.4 or better (or iOS6), and became a requirement back in April. FWIW KitKat is probably now the most prevalent Android version, running on at least 25% of active handsets worldwide and likely much higher than that here in the US IMO.
With that out of the way ApplePay is almost certainly going to see more use, especially in light of the heavy promotion being done by card issuers on behalf of the service. Prior to ApplePay most folks were probably unaware of tap and pay on any platform or any device.
So while Google Wallet is available to all Android devices running 2.3 or higher the tap and pay function needs KitKat or better. That's still millions of smartphones.
Weird that so many tech writers are wrong, and some poster named Gatorguy is the only one that knows the real story. :rolleyes:
Yeah, pretty surprising huh?
Here's a simple straightforward article on how tap and pay is enabled on Android devices, and the requirements. In a nutshell NFC, a US SIM and Google Android 4.4. Screw the carriers, HCE goes right around 'em. http://www.androidcentral.com/using-tap-and-pay-google-wallet
I was in Macy's downtown San Francisco this morning to buy a suit. When I asked if I could use Apple Pay I was told "not yet". Apparently, not all departments are ready. I was really looking forward to using for the first time.
As others have said, I'm sure whipping out your credit card could be just as fast, but it's the security in addition to the convenience that makes Apple Pay a good thing.
So while Google Wallet is available to all Android devices running 2.3 or higher the tap and pay function needs KitKat or better. That's still millions of smartphones.
Ah. So, 75% of Android users can use Google Wallet, they just can't use it. Presumably, they can enter credit card info...but they just can't actually pay for things at a NFS terminal.
Google Wallet was my choice of "contactless payment" as I wandered the Twin Cities in recent days with a trio of Android phones, making small purchases to see how well this technology worked...
Hardly anyone has [the required terminals]....
As I paid for stuff with my smartphones, I encountered astonishment and consternation. This is clear evidence that NFC payments have gone basically nowhere to date -- even in the stores that support it.
At a Subway, for instance, the cashier got a look of worry and confusion as I tapped my phone against the payment terminal instead of swiping my credit card, and looked very relieved when everything worked itself out. I was the first to ever attempt this there, he said. I heard that almost everywhere I went.
At a CVS pharmacy, a cashier told me I wasn't the first to attempt a tap payment -- but I was the first to do so successfully.
That didn't surprise me because a number of my payment attempts failed miserably. At a McDonald's on University Avenue, for instance, my Samsung Galaxy S5 Sport handset repeatedly spewed error messages as it attempted to communicate with an NFC terminal. I ended up pulling out my credit card.
I encountered similar difficulties with my Motorola Moto X handset. On one occasion, I could not get it to communicate with a tap terminal. Other times, I had to tap again and again until I finally achieved contact....
He goes on. The fact is, Google Wallet is like many other Android software and hardware features - they sound cool in an ad, but they're so full of fragmentation and implementation gotchas, that even techies just can't seem to make them work. And so, to be brutally honest, no one other than hardcore Fandroid geeks even try to.
Less security, less privacy, less ease of use than Apple Pay.
And, a month from now, I'd bet, far less used than Apple Pay as well.
...a big reason for the acceptance is that Starbucks has tied its payment and loyalty systems together. Get coffee with the phone app and build credit towards rewards. Similarly, half of Macy's sales come from its in-store card, which is tied to its loyalty program.
That could be where Apple, or another vendor, could ultimately really make mobile payments pay off. Tie a single payment mechanism with virtually all the loyalty programs consumers participate in and there would be enormous incentive for consumers to participate.
Comments
Quote:
Used it at Whole Foods last night. It was so simple I wasn't sure it had even worked ... But was then surprised that I sti had to sign for the purchase.
What? Why? A signature in addition to Apple Pay is a bit backward.
That's BS man. That's one of the steps Apple Pay is supposed to eliminate. The cashier was probably confused.
****Also people are talking about paper receipts but I could have sworn during the iPhone 6 keynote they showed a notification confirming payment sent to the iPhone along with a digital receipt.
In 2014 iPhone 6 users are not going to go out of their way to use a credit card.
A reality check from "Mind of the Geek" ("Android users should be happy about Apple Pay")
...this is nothing new. In fact, it’s been around for years for Android users. The problem was (and still is) that your average Android user either doesn’t know about it, or can’t use it. Google Wallet was on the leading edge of mobile payments, but a combined lack of marketing, lack of hype, and lack of availability have left it as a niche feature only available for a tiny percentage of Android users. Unless you own a Nexus device you’ve probably never seen Google Wallet on your device. And even if you’re the adventurous type and attempt to download it from Google Play, unless you’re on Sprint your carrier won’t support it on non-Nexus devices...
Wallet, while safer than the swipe-and-sign method, is still less secure than Apple Pay. Apple Pay creates a one-time use token that is passed to credit card companies for approval, and it does not include the user’s account number. Google Wallet also doesn’t pass along the user’s credit card number, but instead creates a virtual card number that is passed along for authorization. Google will likely need to update Google Wallet to the same token system in order to garner the support of credit card companies...
Plainly put, Apple Pay is now the de-facto standard for mobile payments security, and any other competition will need to adopt similar systems and measures. But I fully expect Google to make these adjustments, and quickly, to stymie the Apple Pay rise.
So hold on Android users, Google Wallet is coming soon to a Galaxy phone near you. But if you’re the impatient type, this is just yet another reason why a Nexus 6 needs to be on your wish list.
So, no, Google Wallet isn't "just like Apple Pay". But now that Apple Pay is out, Google will try hard to make it that way.
Weird that folks not on Sprint and not using Nexus devices still use Google Wallet. :rolleyes:
Completely agree on the marketing comment tho. Google doesn't have the kind of marketing savvy network that Apple does. That's why until they came around similar services from companies like Google and PayPal were not going to see much success.
Weird that folks not on Sprint and not using Nexus devices still use Google Wallet.
Completely agree on the marketing comment tho. Google doesn't have the kind of marketing savvy network that Apple does. That's why until they came around similar services from companies like Google and PayPal were not going to see much success.
Correct. Practically any Android device sold in the US now can have Google Wallet. Has been like that for a couple of years.
Still, Apple Pay is better and I'm excited that it's finally come out as this will help speed up adoption nation wide.
Maybe I was a little flippant in my response.
But, consider this ...
You're in a inn outside of Geneva. You are carrying two credit cards -- Amex and Visa. The inn doesn't take Amex and the Visa won't scan.
What do you/they do?
Either pencil-rub or copy the info from the card to a receipt and call it in manually.
So, the ability to scan a card is convenient -- but not absolutely required.
Now, consider how easy it was to enter your cards into iWallet for Apple Pay -- the camera scans the card and captures the data (you manually enter the auth code). Who's to say Apple or some developer can't duplicate that scan and capture capability and just securely store the images of the cards on the phone.
So when you are not able to use Apple Pay, you just pull up the picture of the desired card -- the merchant copies it as if the card wouldn't scan ...
Just as Inconvnient as above, and works just as well (and the merchant doesn't get access to any personal data).
Try a "pure" 2014 MotoX then.
Excellent suggestion. Not sure how that fell off my radar, but again, such is the frustration of the fragmented landscape.
Also, from PCWorld ("Why Apple Pay could even be a big deal for Android users"):
Google uses a more basic system that substitutes a card number for a virtual MasterCard that is used for the transaction. It’s not as secure as the token-based system used by Apple, and Anderson said he expects Google to adopt the newer tokenization technology.
There’s also a fairly big privacy gap between Apple and Google. Apple doesn’t see all of the transactions being made with Apple Pay, but Google does see what its Google Wallet users are buying and where those transactions are taking place. So success for Apple Pay could push Google to give its users a bit more privacy.
So much misinformation out there, I guess.
Strangely, ummm...consistent misinformation. Odd, that.
Weird that folks not on Sprint and not using Nexus devices still use Google Wallet.
Quote:
Weird that so many tech writers are wrong, and some poster named Gatorguy is the only one that knows the real story.
So both systems are better than physically giving your CC anyway.
I fundamentally disagree. Google Wallet has moved the mass collection of data from data sets only available to the individual retailers to a "total data set" that Google is attempting to have about all purchasing. It's absolutely terrible. Even if you trust Google, it's a single source of all information. That's essentially a terrible situation.
Weird that so many tech writers are wrong, and some poster named Gatorguy is the only one that knows the real story.
Gatorguy is correct. Google updated Google Wallet to use HCE to get around the carriers because they suck so bad. You can buy any new Android phone and use Google Wallet with no issues.
Apple Pay is still better. I use both tho, so it's of no concern to me.
Yes there is. Google Wallet already uses tokens, having moved to Host Card Emulation (HCE) several months ago. I'll try to clarify something that might be confusing some of those sources you're quoting.
While Google Wallet definitely uses a secure transaction procedure, one devised and approved by the same folks who worked with Apple on their version of digital payments, tap and pay will no longer work on ALL Google Android devices because of it. That particular feature requires Android 4.4 or better (or iOS6), and became a requirement back in April. FWIW KitKat is probably now the most prevalent Android version, running on at least 25% of active handsets worldwide and likely much higher than that here in the US IMO.
With that out of the way ApplePay is almost certainly going to see more use, especially in light of the heavy promotion being done by card issuers on behalf of the service. Prior to ApplePay most folks were probably unaware of tap and pay on any platform or any device.
So while Google Wallet is available to all Android devices running 2.3 or higher the tap and pay function needs KitKat or better. That's still millions of smartphones.
EDIT: Article here that explains it better than I did.
http://www.smartinsights.net/Secure-Transactions-News/Google-becomes-HCE-exclusive-in-Google-Wallet
Yeah, pretty surprising huh?
Here's a simple straightforward article on how tap and pay is enabled on Android devices, and the requirements. In a nutshell NFC, a US SIM and Google Android 4.4. Screw the carriers, HCE goes right around 'em.
http://www.androidcentral.com/using-tap-and-pay-google-wallet
As others have said, I'm sure whipping out your credit card could be just as fast, but it's the security in addition to the convenience that makes Apple Pay a good thing.
So while Google Wallet is available to all Android devices running 2.3 or higher the tap and pay function needs KitKat or better. That's still millions of smartphones.
Ah. So, 75% of Android users can use Google Wallet, they just can't use it. Presumably, they can enter credit card info...but they just can't actually pay for things at a NFS terminal.
Got it.
Here's what the tech writer for the Minneapolis Star-Tribune said, a few days pre-Apple Pay:
Google Wallet was my choice of "contactless payment" as I wandered the Twin Cities in recent days with a trio of Android phones, making small purchases to see how well this technology worked...
Hardly anyone has [the required terminals]....
As I paid for stuff with my smartphones, I encountered astonishment and consternation. This is clear evidence that NFC payments have gone basically nowhere to date -- even in the stores that support it.
At a Subway, for instance, the cashier got a look of worry and confusion as I tapped my phone against the payment terminal instead of swiping my credit card, and looked very relieved when everything worked itself out. I was the first to ever attempt this there, he said. I heard that almost everywhere I went.
At a CVS pharmacy, a cashier told me I wasn't the first to attempt a tap payment -- but I was the first to do so successfully.
That didn't surprise me because a number of my payment attempts failed miserably. At a McDonald's on University Avenue, for instance, my Samsung Galaxy S5 Sport handset repeatedly spewed error messages as it attempted to communicate with an NFC terminal. I ended up pulling out my credit card.
I encountered similar difficulties with my Motorola Moto X handset. On one occasion, I could not get it to communicate with a tap terminal. Other times, I had to tap again and again until I finally achieved contact....
He goes on. The fact is, Google Wallet is like many other Android software and hardware features - they sound cool in an ad, but they're so full of fragmentation and implementation gotchas, that even techies just can't seem to make them work. And so, to be brutally honest, no one other than hardcore Fandroid geeks even try to.
Less security, less privacy, less ease of use than Apple Pay.
And, a month from now, I'd bet, far less used than Apple Pay as well.
Can you get cash back with ?Pay debit card?
Yes, as long as they have NFC. I used it yesterday in a mom and pop store in my neighborhood and it worked perfectly.
Can you get cash back with ?Pay debit card?
I presume the cash back features will be the same as before, although I don't think that Discover is on board yet, for instance. On the other hand, a lot of folks are waking up to the potential for synergy with loyalty programs:
...a big reason for the acceptance is that Starbucks has tied its payment and loyalty systems together. Get coffee with the phone app and build credit towards rewards. Similarly, half of Macy's sales come from its in-store card, which is tied to its loyalty program.
That could be where Apple, or another vendor, could ultimately really make mobile payments pay off. Tie a single payment mechanism with virtually all the loyalty programs consumers participate in and there would be enormous incentive for consumers to participate.