So big farking deal yourself. Perhaps you should inhabit the Android forums instead. You should like it there more than here.
The point still stands, big farking deal. The faster/better tablet on the market costs more than a slower/poorer unit. So - where's the news here? I don't need some rabid fanboy telling me that the iPad Air 2 "smokes" the competition. I expect it because I paid more for the unit (my iPad Air 2 was ordered on the first day).
Blowing passed an Atom is not a very hard thing to do, man I hate that chip. always have since the first incarnation. I have this little development board that constantly oerheaats, contains an Atom QuadCore Z3740, it will reboot every time I put a little load on the LAMP server. I even thought it was a defective product and returned it for a better one, same thing happened. Every single device I have ever owned with that chip has been complete garbage, almost as bad as Transmeta, though I did like my little Sony PIctureBook, still have the 933Mhz Japan only model in my display case of old but not forgotten tech.
I mentioned it because that Intel's competition in this space. Their Atom based line is pretty large, from 2.3 watt draw, all the way to about 20 watts.
The point still stands, big farking deal. The faster/better tablet on the market costs more than a slower/poorer unit. So - where's the news here? I don't need some rabid fanboy telling me that the iPad Air 2 "smokes" the competition. I expect it because I paid more for the unit (my iPad Air 2 was ordered on the first day).
You still do t get it. Apple's higher price isn't in the SoC. It's estimated that Apple's SoC costs a few bucks more, but that's about it. It's the case and screen where the difference is seen. Also these other manufacturers are doing what Windows PC manufacturers are doing, and cutting orofits to the bone. Just look at what the manufacturer of the chip is claiming. That what matters here. Stop flinging the BS about pricing. Samsung's top tablets, for example, cost as much as an iPad. Performance still isn't there.
You still do t get it. Apple's higher price isn't in the SoC. It's estimated that Apple's SoC costs a few bucks more, but that's about it. It's the case and screen where the difference is seen. Also these other manufacturers are doing what Windows PC manufacturers are doing, and cutting orofits to the bone. Just look at what the manufacturer of the chip is claiming. That what matters here. Stop flinging the BS about pricing. Samsung's top tablets, for example, cost as much as an iPad. Performance still isn't there.
Blah blah blah blah blah.
When did I say a damn thing about a Samsung tablet? I don't consider it falling under the category of the "new Android tablets" since it came out several months ago. If it is priced the same as an iPad Air 2, caveat emptor. According to the performance graphs, I should just buy a Kindle if I were considering a Samsung tablet.
The results for the A8x are stunning to say the least. Questions:
1) what could be achieved with 2 of these in one device... say a 12-13" iPad?
Yes.
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
2) can Apple pull this kind of advancement going forward, say to A9x and A10x? Which would put it at parallel power to today's MB Airs?
Yes thats absolutely sure, even if they keep the same design, using a feature size of 14nm (as Intel already does) will make it so.
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
3) now that they have made good use of their investments in the engineers and chip tech purchases, is it time to go all out and do the same with battery tech? Thy've got the money... who has the visionary tech that needs help developing it?
Several research institutes and several companies have this knowledge.
Apple could licence this or buy those institutes and companies.
4) when will Samsung try to do Question 1 above and come out with a dual processor phone or tablet... both Octa-Cores? @Marvin - Just to keep the Fandroids happy...
The Nexus 9 benchmarks look quite promising for an Android tablet (Geekbench 1812 single thread / 3166 multithread):
Some thoughts:
The 64-bit Tegra K1 SOC features a two core CPU clocked at up to 2.5GHz, combined with a Kepler-based 192-core GPU. The CPU uses a seven-way superscalar microarchitecture, promising up to seven concurrent micro-ops per clock, with a 128KB four-way L1 instruction cache, a 64KB four-way L1 data cache, and a 2MB 16-way L2 cache shared between the cores. This was originally designed for server machines and repurposed for tablet. Interesting there do not appear to be any immediate plans to release a version with more than two CPU cores.
The A8X is getting nearly identical single threaded performance at only 1.5GHz. Earlier ARM SOCs for Android have had relatively poor single threaded performance. Software optimized for iOS would then be bottlenecked under Android. The new Denver Tegras promise to greatly improve the situation. I still see Android as being behind iOS in developer focus, the but apparent performance gap for users will be nearly eliminated.
Hope to get my iPad Air 2 later today. Looks like a terrific device. As for the Denver machines, I'm glad to see competition as it pushes Apple harder. I can only imagine what the iPad Air 3 benchmarks will be!
And imagine when Apple would let iPad thick as previous model and put there stronger battery and clocked A8X higher. It would jump out of charts :-D But why would Apple do that. A9 with even smaller die size can accommodate 4 cores with probably similar clock speed.
I love how this site tailors the benchmarks to its purpose. Of course, the Air2 will beat the K1 32b in CPU performance, that is not where Nvidia put its focus (though I do think its great that the A8 couldnt beat it). If you take a look at the actual benchmarks (and take these even with a grain of salt as they are from an ES of the Volantis, and Geekbench isnt 64bit for Android yet, every android test was done in 32 bit)
Now, of course, A8X beats the Denver in multicore, thats all fine, it has an extra core, those more power consumption. But wasnt the big thing with Apple that you didnt need multiprocessing power, and that single core was always good enough? Seems Apple is changing there stance a lot lately. Secondly, look at the Integer tests.... You know, the ones that matter. Even at 32b Denver is killing A8X. I
I wouldnt rage nearly as hard about this, but obviously biased sites laughing at other manufacturers with spoofed results and not giving all the facts is irritating. Just wait and see where the GPU performance lies as well... Even given the A8Xs 6 cluster GPU and newer process, I doubt its going to be able to top K1, which is about to be phased out in favor of Maxwell.
All these benchmarks underscore the biggest problem with Android. In the name of being portable across multiple CPU architectures, all apps are written for a Java-like virtual machine. There's a lot of overhead running everything through such an environment, even with JIT compilers.
iOS, on the other hand, doesn't do that. Apps are compiled for the native architecture and run without any kind of emulator. So they can get better application performance on what would otherwise be inferior hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
So the Air 2 has 2GB RAM. Can't wait for people to explain why it's not necessary.
Not necessary is different from not wanted. You can run every app available today in 1G, because developers aren't going to release something that requires more RAM than any customers have. But "necessary" is a pointless benchmark, because those same developers would certainly take advantage of more RAM if it was available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mubaili
it is curious why Apple doesn't include a NFC chip in the iPad air 2.
My guess is that they don't think it's likely to be needed.
With a phone, you can expect people to have it with them at all times, so it's not a big deal to take it out when it's time to make a purchase.
With an iPad, it's less likely. It's too big to fit in a pocket, and the Air is too big to fit in many women's purses. So it is less likely that someone will have it with them when it's time to make a purchase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
What ever Apple decide is right usually is ... just not ending Aperture ...
Apple's not perfect. They've made mistakes, which they've usually corrected later on. Like that iPod Shuffle where they moved all the controls to the headphones. Or removing USB-sync from iTunes and putting it back later.
And they have made a lot of choices that power-users and business-users dislike (e.g. recent Mac OS X UI changes, non-upgradable RAM, removing built-in FireWire and Ethernet ports, etc.) but ultimately did not negatively impact their sales because the majority of customers just didn't care that much. Are these right or wrong? Depends on your perspective.
No company is perfect, but Apple does seem to be doing a much better job than the competition at developing and selling what people want to buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
First 64-bit, now an extra core and 2GB RAM. We are getting closer to the day when a Mac ships with one of these.
There's been a persistent rumor about an ARM-based Mac. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple has prototypes somewhere, in preparation for some future date when Intel fails to keep up with the performance improvements. But that's hardly prophetic, when you consider that Apple has done this twice before (from 68K to PPC, and then from PPC to Intel.)
In addition the sound on the HDX dual speakers run rings around the one crappy speaker which no one seems to mention.
I have to say the speakers on mine do sound pretty good, which is probably why I like to use it as my Podcast player, though again I also have a couple of bluetooth speakers so internal speakers aren't the most important thing for me.
Is "beat" by? Please! That might be colloquial street speak for the uneducated where you're from, but it's terrible English. The correct form of words is "is beaten by".
When did I say a damn thing about a Samsung tablet? I don't consider it falling under the category of the "new Android tablets" since it came out several months ago. If it is priced the same as an iPad Air 2, caveat emptor. According to the performance graphs, I should just buy a Kindle if I were considering a Samsung tablet.
The Nexus 9 benchmarks look quite promising for an Android tablet (Geekbench 1812 single thread / 3166 multithread):
Some thoughts:
The 64-bit Tegra K1 SOC features a two core CPU clocked at up to 2.5GHz, combined with a Kepler-based 192-core GPU. The CPU uses a seven-way superscalar microarchitecture, promising up to seven concurrent micro-ops per clock, with a 128KB four-way L1 instruction cache, a 64KB four-way L1 data cache, and a 2MB 16-way L2 cache shared between the cores. This was originally designed for server machines and repurposed for tablet. Interesting there do not appear to be any immediate plans to release a version with more than two CPU cores.
The A8X is getting nearly identical single threaded performance at only 1.5GHz. Earlier ARM SOCs for Android have had relatively poor single threaded performance. Software optimized for iOS would then be bottlenecked under Android. The new Denver Tegras promise to greatly improve the situation. I still see Android as being behind iOS in developer focus, the but apparent performance gap for users will be nearly eliminated.
Hope to get my iPad Air 2 later today. Looks like a terrific device. As for the Denver machines, I'm glad to see competition as it pushes Apple harder. I can only imagine what the iPad Air 3 benchmarks will be!
I think so, the Nvidia Denver is defiantly a fast chip, if it wasn't for the extra core in the iPad Air 2's A8x version the multi-core numbers would have been about the same as the Nvidia beats out the iPhone 6 with dual cores and still both in single-core. I'm happy their is finally competition, who knows Apple adding an extra core might have been in direct response to Nvidia's Denver, can't wait to see how the Nvidia quad core chip performs when it's released next year. Bring on the graphic tests. Regardless I'm really happy that I bought both the iPad Air 2 and Nexus 9. Unlike the iPad though the Nexus will have more use's than just a tablet CPU for me as you can tap into the CUDA cores separately, using them for things like encoding media files, rendering with Blender and LightWave and other GPU computations, quite impressive actually. All you have to do is install the development Linux OS which is based off of Ubuntu onto the Nexus 9 which being a Nexus won't be a problem installing multiple OS's in a dual, even triple boot as I also plan on installing Arch Linux. Connecting a monitor via Miracast, then adding a bluetooth keyboard and mouse will result in a pretty nice little ARM desktop computer. I'm in no way comparing the iPad here or calling one better than the other, their two completely different monsters to me, the Nexus has always been a fun toy for me to experiment on, even more so now that it has CUDA cores that are opened to do what you want with and the iPad is more for work, even though the UI looks a little more on the cutesy side. Now that the iPad has 2GB of RAM, do you guys think this is a foreshadow of better multitasking to come, finally allowing more than one none Apple apps like iTunes to run in the background. This has been my biggest wish and complaint, besides not being able to choose my default browser, email client, chat client and the lack of a file-manager, we still might have to wait till the iPhone also gets 2GB of memory before Apple does anything with it but this is defiantly a promising sign.
On a side note there is an app called OS Experience that you can install after you have Jailbroken your iPad that supposedly allows multi-apps to be ran at the same time, has anyone used this, if so can you please give me you experience with it. This just might be the holy grail I was looking for, if it works as intended that is.
OS Experience
Benchmarks comparing Nvidia's Denver to Apple's A8
I mentioned it because that Intel's competition in this space. Their Atom based line is pretty large, from 2.3 watt draw, all the way to about 20 watts.
Yeah I know, though it's interesting to see how one of the newest and greatest Atom CPU's for tablets looks like when put up against Apple's A8x, HP's EliteBook 1000, which is actually a very nice tablet contains an Atom Z3795, in Geek Bench it scored a 975 for single-core and 3167 for multi-core. The thing is the HP is no slouch either, it hums along just fine with almost zero lag. This really just shows you that Apple could start using their ARM chips in notebooks now. I would be defiantly be the first one in line for a MacBook Air with an A8x, maybe clocked too 2Ghz, 8GB RAM but I would also take 4GB and of course a 1080P display. Probably get 14 hours of battery like the Acer ChromeBook that uses the Nvidia K1, where do I sign.
Comments
The point still stands, big farking deal. The faster/better tablet on the market costs more than a slower/poorer unit. So - where's the news here? I don't need some rabid fanboy telling me that the iPad Air 2 "smokes" the competition. I expect it because I paid more for the unit (my iPad Air 2 was ordered on the first day).
N.B. All of the A8X chips with 4 good cores are being saved for the 13" iPad for business in 2015.
I was wondering about that.
I mentioned it because that Intel's competition in this space. Their Atom based line is pretty large, from 2.3 watt draw, all the way to about 20 watts.
First 64-bit, now an extra core and 2GB RAM. We are getting closer to the day when a Mac ships with one of these.
Don't forget the $200 price reduction.
You still do t get it. Apple's higher price isn't in the SoC. It's estimated that Apple's SoC costs a few bucks more, but that's about it. It's the case and screen where the difference is seen. Also these other manufacturers are doing what Windows PC manufacturers are doing, and cutting orofits to the bone. Just look at what the manufacturer of the chip is claiming. That what matters here. Stop flinging the BS about pricing. Samsung's top tablets, for example, cost as much as an iPad. Performance still isn't there.
Blah blah blah blah blah.
When did I say a damn thing about a Samsung tablet? I don't consider it falling under the category of the "new Android tablets" since it came out several months ago. If it is priced the same as an iPad Air 2, caveat emptor. According to the performance graphs, I should just buy a Kindle if I were considering a Samsung tablet.
The results for the A8x are stunning to say the least. Questions:
1) what could be achieved with 2 of these in one device... say a 12-13" iPad?
Yes.
2) can Apple pull this kind of advancement going forward, say to A9x and A10x? Which would put it at parallel power to today's MB Airs?
Yes thats absolutely sure, even if they keep the same design, using a feature size of 14nm (as Intel already does) will make it so.
3) now that they have made good use of their investments in the engineers and chip tech purchases, is it time to go all out and do the same with battery tech? Thy've got the money... who has the visionary tech that needs help developing it?
Several research institutes and several companies have this knowledge.
Apple could licence this or buy those institutes and companies.
A very interesting link is this one: http://phys.org/news/2014-10-ultra-fast-batteries-recharged-minutes.html
4) when will Samsung try to do Question 1 above and come out with a dual processor phone or tablet... both Octa-Cores? @Marvin - Just to keep the Fandroids happy...
Don't know, don't care.
Some thoughts:
The 64-bit Tegra K1 SOC features a two core CPU clocked at up to 2.5GHz, combined with a Kepler-based 192-core GPU. The CPU uses a seven-way superscalar microarchitecture, promising up to seven concurrent micro-ops per clock, with a 128KB four-way L1 instruction cache, a 64KB four-way L1 data cache, and a 2MB 16-way L2 cache shared between the cores. This was originally designed for server machines and repurposed for tablet. Interesting there do not appear to be any immediate plans to release a version with more than two CPU cores.
The A8X is getting nearly identical single threaded performance at only 1.5GHz. Earlier ARM SOCs for Android have had relatively poor single threaded performance. Software optimized for iOS would then be bottlenecked under Android. The new Denver Tegras promise to greatly improve the situation. I still see Android as being behind iOS in developer focus, the but apparent performance gap for users will be nearly eliminated.
Hope to get my iPad Air 2 later today. Looks like a terrific device. As for the Denver machines, I'm glad to see competition as it pushes Apple harder. I can only imagine what the iPad Air 3 benchmarks will be!
It's perfect for the most basic tasks.
In addition the sound on the HDX dual speakers run rings around the one crappy speaker which no one seems to mention.
A9 with even smaller die size can accommodate 4 cores with probably similar clock speed.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/1037443?baseline=1061742
Now, of course, A8X beats the Denver in multicore, thats all fine, it has an extra core, those more power consumption. But wasnt the big thing with Apple that you didnt need multiprocessing power, and that single core was always good enough? Seems Apple is changing there stance a lot lately. Secondly, look at the Integer tests.... You know, the ones that matter. Even at 32b Denver is killing A8X. I
I wouldnt rage nearly as hard about this, but obviously biased sites laughing at other manufacturers with spoofed results and not giving all the facts is irritating. Just wait and see where the GPU performance lies as well... Even given the A8Xs 6 cluster GPU and newer process, I doubt its going to be able to top K1, which is about to be phased out in favor of Maxwell.
All these benchmarks underscore the biggest problem with Android. In the name of being portable across multiple CPU architectures, all apps are written for a Java-like virtual machine. There's a lot of overhead running everything through such an environment, even with JIT compilers.
iOS, on the other hand, doesn't do that. Apps are compiled for the native architecture and run without any kind of emulator. So they can get better application performance on what would otherwise be inferior hardware.
Quote:
So the Air 2 has 2GB RAM. Can't wait for people to explain why it's not necessary.
Not necessary is different from not wanted. You can run every app available today in 1G, because developers aren't going to release something that requires more RAM than any customers have. But "necessary" is a pointless benchmark, because those same developers would certainly take advantage of more RAM if it was available.
it is curious why Apple doesn't include a NFC chip in the iPad air 2.
My guess is that they don't think it's likely to be needed.
With a phone, you can expect people to have it with them at all times, so it's not a big deal to take it out when it's time to make a purchase.
With an iPad, it's less likely. It's too big to fit in a pocket, and the Air is too big to fit in many women's purses. So it is less likely that someone will have it with them when it's time to make a purchase.
What ever Apple decide is right usually is ... just not ending Aperture ...
Apple's not perfect. They've made mistakes, which they've usually corrected later on. Like that iPod Shuffle where they moved all the controls to the headphones. Or removing USB-sync from iTunes and putting it back later.
And they have made a lot of choices that power-users and business-users dislike (e.g. recent Mac OS X UI changes, non-upgradable RAM, removing built-in FireWire and Ethernet ports, etc.) but ultimately did not negatively impact their sales because the majority of customers just didn't care that much. Are these right or wrong? Depends on your perspective.
No company is perfect, but Apple does seem to be doing a much better job than the competition at developing and selling what people want to buy.
First 64-bit, now an extra core and 2GB RAM. We are getting closer to the day when a Mac ships with one of these.
There's been a persistent rumor about an ARM-based Mac. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple has prototypes somewhere, in preparation for some future date when Intel fails to keep up with the performance improvements. But that's hardly prophetic, when you consider that Apple has done this twice before (from 68K to PPC, and then from PPC to Intel.)
Thanks for the reply and yes, I've read that link earlier in the week. Very interesting indeed!
It's perfect for the most basic tasks.
In addition the sound on the HDX dual speakers run rings around the one crappy speaker which no one seems to mention.
I have to say the speakers on mine do sound pretty good, which is probably why I like to use it as my Podcast player, though again I also have a couple of bluetooth speakers so internal speakers aren't the most important thing for me.
Beats By Dre.
This is very good question - why no NFC chip if IOS 8.1 geared to Apple Pay...maybe if they did include it then you don't really need Iphone 6...
I don't think you know what you're saying.
The Nexus 9 benchmarks look quite promising for an Android tablet (Geekbench 1812 single thread / 3166 multithread):
Some thoughts:
The 64-bit Tegra K1 SOC features a two core CPU clocked at up to 2.5GHz, combined with a Kepler-based 192-core GPU. The CPU uses a seven-way superscalar microarchitecture, promising up to seven concurrent micro-ops per clock, with a 128KB four-way L1 instruction cache, a 64KB four-way L1 data cache, and a 2MB 16-way L2 cache shared between the cores. This was originally designed for server machines and repurposed for tablet. Interesting there do not appear to be any immediate plans to release a version with more than two CPU cores.
The A8X is getting nearly identical single threaded performance at only 1.5GHz. Earlier ARM SOCs for Android have had relatively poor single threaded performance. Software optimized for iOS would then be bottlenecked under Android. The new Denver Tegras promise to greatly improve the situation. I still see Android as being behind iOS in developer focus, the but apparent performance gap for users will be nearly eliminated.
Hope to get my iPad Air 2 later today. Looks like a terrific device. As for the Denver machines, I'm glad to see competition as it pushes Apple harder. I can only imagine what the iPad Air 3 benchmarks will be!
I think so, the Nvidia Denver is defiantly a fast chip, if it wasn't for the extra core in the iPad Air 2's A8x version the multi-core numbers would have been about the same as the Nvidia beats out the iPhone 6 with dual cores and still both in single-core. I'm happy their is finally competition, who knows Apple adding an extra core might have been in direct response to Nvidia's Denver, can't wait to see how the Nvidia quad core chip performs when it's released next year. Bring on the graphic tests. Regardless I'm really happy that I bought both the iPad Air 2 and Nexus 9. Unlike the iPad though the Nexus will have more use's than just a tablet CPU for me as you can tap into the CUDA cores separately, using them for things like encoding media files, rendering with Blender and LightWave and other GPU computations, quite impressive actually. All you have to do is install the development Linux OS which is based off of Ubuntu onto the Nexus 9 which being a Nexus won't be a problem installing multiple OS's in a dual, even triple boot as I also plan on installing Arch Linux. Connecting a monitor via Miracast, then adding a bluetooth keyboard and mouse will result in a pretty nice little ARM desktop computer. I'm in no way comparing the iPad here or calling one better than the other, their two completely different monsters to me, the Nexus has always been a fun toy for me to experiment on, even more so now that it has CUDA cores that are opened to do what you want with and the iPad is more for work, even though the UI looks a little more on the cutesy side. Now that the iPad has 2GB of RAM, do you guys think this is a foreshadow of better multitasking to come, finally allowing more than one none Apple apps like iTunes to run in the background. This has been my biggest wish and complaint, besides not being able to choose my default browser, email client, chat client and the lack of a file-manager, we still might have to wait till the iPhone also gets 2GB of memory before Apple does anything with it but this is defiantly a promising sign.
On a side note there is an app called OS Experience that you can install after you have Jailbroken your iPad that supposedly allows multi-apps to be ran at the same time, has anyone used this, if so can you please give me you experience with it. This just might be the holy grail I was looking for, if it works as intended that is.
OS Experience
Benchmarks comparing Nvidia's Denver to Apple's A8
SC MC
Nvidia Denver Dual Core 1940 3297
Apple iPhone 6 Dual Core 1627 2920
Apple iPad Air 2 Tri Core 1812 4477
LOL!
Here go the fireworks again...
main question is does new iPad 3 bends as easily as the new iPhone 6 plus LOL -
my LOL to your LOL
I mentioned it because that Intel's competition in this space. Their Atom based line is pretty large, from 2.3 watt draw, all the way to about 20 watts.
Yeah I know, though it's interesting to see how one of the newest and greatest Atom CPU's for tablets looks like when put up against Apple's A8x, HP's EliteBook 1000, which is actually a very nice tablet contains an Atom Z3795, in Geek Bench it scored a 975 for single-core and 3167 for multi-core. The thing is the HP is no slouch either, it hums along just fine with almost zero lag. This really just shows you that Apple could start using their ARM chips in notebooks now. I would be defiantly be the first one in line for a MacBook Air with an A8x, maybe clocked too 2Ghz, 8GB RAM but I would also take 4GB and of course a 1080P display. Probably get 14 hours of battery like the Acer ChromeBook that uses the Nvidia K1, where do I sign.