There are HUNDREDS of mods that would have to be redone to work with the Mac version as well. I dont think its a simple 'make new maps and tweak'. You actually have to make new executables on the pc for the mods to work.
With all that 'trouble', might as well wait for HL2 which will, supposedly, be Mac compatible too and therefore will have all the converetd mods for it also for Mac. I know its a long wait and the audience wont be as big seeing new engine = higher spec machines... but it would seem the most logical for Valve.
I will try and pressure my friend at Valve for possible inside info or more response on a possible sideline, unofficial port to OS 9-X.
If you have any ideas for an arguement to present. He is 'only' the head map maker, so not really in the programming part... but its a small company and he has been there forever.
I was thinking that he could try and get things moving by argueing that if they do indeed intend for an OS 9-X port of HL2, they should get some experience while porting HL1. Make it an unofficial port... buy the PC version of HL at any store, then download the app from their site. Like Quake 3 for OS X. I bought the PC version but then downloaded the X version from iD.
This way they could possibly get past the Sierra-Nazis and all of a sudden sell a ton more copies of HL.
Anything else I could send off?
PS Isnt there a linux version as well? I mean, if it exists for Linux, how hard could it be to port to OS X?
Isn't there some way though to use the linux underpinnings as an advntage? HL server already runs on Linux so the maps have to work there, right?
As long as you paint over the command line by accessing through an icon you could actually make it run mostly on linux, making there less to be ported... I mean it's not like they have to overhaul the interface into bondi or anything... or is that just crazy?
...and it's not like Apple would mind it only being on OSX "The future of mac gaming: HL, Game of the year finally makes it to a mac... OSX made it possible.
Unfortunately I know nothing about porting stuff in this way, so somebody please full us in... is this possible?
Why is everything on the Mac so simple, yet everthing non Mac is so complex to bring to the Mac??? I just wish I could play a good version of the Half-Life engine on a Mac, that is all I want...
It's actually not that it's so difficult to port a game. Only 20-30% of the time porting the game is spent getting it up and running on a Mac. The rest of the time is spent fixing problems in the code that were carried over from the PC version. From what I'v heard from Lane and others, most of the Windows games completely abuse memory, and at least in Mac OS 9 where we had no protected memory, the poor handling of memory in the windows code would cause it to completely bomb in OS 9 rather quickly. So in fact, most of the time involved in porting the games to the Mac was fixing stuff like that...
well, combining the fact that 99% of HL for MacOS 8-9 was finished and my friend played it through classic environment in OS X, and that a Linux server version exists (albeit text based), I would think that combining the two together, a little tweaking (Quake, Quake 2 are open source and HL is originally based on Quake and Quake World and Quake GL engine) etc... and if they really wanted to, even in their spare time, they could release a beta in a few weeks.
Heck, they could ask the Omni Group to make a cocoa port n a matter of days!!! Im sure they would do it! The made the Quake 2 port for OS X Server in a matter of days too.
Any other ideas I can put togther before shooting of the email?
The problem is the dozen or so updates that HL has gone through. Would a programmer have to recreate each one of those updates?
I seem to recall that Mark guy over at Westlake saying that, when he ported Unreal (which also had a ton of updates), that he had to port and test each update.
Given that, it would seem to leave two options for a Mac port: 1) ship the 1.0 port of Half-Life (with all of its known bugs) and let Mac users stay detached from the PC community, or 2) invest a ton of time and money trying to bring the Mac version up to par with the PC version. Neither of these are really acceptable.
Besides, Half-Life is ancient now. There's just no way the Mac version is ever gonna see daylight. Nor, I'll wager, will HL2 ever come to the Mac. The reasons it was originally shot down have not changed. 1) Valve had a vision for creating a strong Half-Life brand through an extrordinary amount of support; like I said, the game is ancient yet they continue to update it. They view having to support numerous updates across multiple platforms as a distraction; the resources they spend trying to keep the Mac code up to date are resources they could be using to crank out another PC update. 2) The head of Valve, Gabe Newell, is a former Microsoft manager. It was he who shot down the Mac version days before it went GM, not Sierra. IIRC, Sierra was mighty pissed, but their hands were tied. Newell has no interest in throwing the Mac community a bone. He's a PC guy, through and through.
That being said, it's a real shame, because, IMHO, HL is without a doubt the best FPS game out there. Still.
Good arguements, but the fact is, HL hasnt been updated in yonks. And when it is updated nowadays, it takes ages and the updates are major.
To bring the existing HL Mac code up to par with current version shouldnt take TOO much effort. And since they could do it as an unofficial (and unsupported if they care to not want to go through maintaining) port it shouldnt take too much effort and time and hopefully not involve Sierra much or at all.
Anyways, unless I get any other arguements, I'll shoot off the email later today or tomorrow. Keep yer fingers crossed.
I hate to be the pessimist, but I think the only way it is going to happen is if someone can talk them into open sourcing the code for the game in such a way that independent developers could create a mac port. Ultimately though, the game and the code are the property of Sierra, and they aren't going to want to release it to anyone, and I don't think they're going to be terribly keen on reviving a project they killed years back.
Comments
There are HUNDREDS of mods that would have to be redone to work with the Mac version as well. I dont think its a simple 'make new maps and tweak'. You actually have to make new executables on the pc for the mods to work.
With all that 'trouble', might as well wait for HL2 which will, supposedly, be Mac compatible too and therefore will have all the converetd mods for it also for Mac. I know its a long wait and the audience wont be as big seeing new engine = higher spec machines... but it would seem the most logical for Valve.
I will try and pressure my friend at Valve for possible inside info or more response on a possible sideline, unofficial port to OS 9-X.
I was thinking that he could try and get things moving by argueing that if they do indeed intend for an OS 9-X port of HL2, they should get some experience while porting HL1. Make it an unofficial port... buy the PC version of HL at any store, then download the app from their site. Like Quake 3 for OS X. I bought the PC version but then downloaded the X version from iD.
This way they could possibly get past the Sierra-Nazis and all of a sudden sell a ton more copies of HL.
Anything else I could send off?
PS Isnt there a linux version as well? I mean, if it exists for Linux, how hard could it be to port to OS X?
As long as you paint over the command line by accessing through an icon you could actually make it run mostly on linux, making there less to be ported... I mean it's not like they have to overhaul the interface into bondi or anything... or is that just crazy?
Check out that Linux porting ish! That sounds much more promising... does anyone know anything about porting Linux apps to OS X??
[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: WeEeEeEdAsH ]</p>
Unfortunately I know nothing about porting stuff in this way, so somebody please full us in... is this possible?
but an interesting idea.
Heck, they could ask the Omni Group to make a cocoa port n a matter of days!!! Im sure they would do it! The made the Quake 2 port for OS X Server in a matter of days too.
Any other ideas I can put togther before shooting of the email?
I seem to recall that Mark guy over at Westlake saying that, when he ported Unreal (which also had a ton of updates), that he had to port and test each update.
Given that, it would seem to leave two options for a Mac port: 1) ship the 1.0 port of Half-Life (with all of its known bugs) and let Mac users stay detached from the PC community, or 2) invest a ton of time and money trying to bring the Mac version up to par with the PC version. Neither of these are really acceptable.
Besides, Half-Life is ancient now. There's just no way the Mac version is ever gonna see daylight. Nor, I'll wager, will HL2 ever come to the Mac. The reasons it was originally shot down have not changed. 1) Valve had a vision for creating a strong Half-Life brand through an extrordinary amount of support; like I said, the game is ancient yet they continue to update it. They view having to support numerous updates across multiple platforms as a distraction; the resources they spend trying to keep the Mac code up to date are resources they could be using to crank out another PC update. 2) The head of Valve, Gabe Newell, is a former Microsoft manager. It was he who shot down the Mac version days before it went GM, not Sierra. IIRC, Sierra was mighty pissed, but their hands were tied. Newell has no interest in throwing the Mac community a bone. He's a PC guy, through and through.
That being said, it's a real shame, because, IMHO, HL is without a doubt the best FPS game out there. Still.
[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Mr.Potatohead ]</p>
To bring the existing HL Mac code up to par with current version shouldnt take TOO much effort. And since they could do it as an unofficial (and unsupported if they care to not want to go through maintaining) port it shouldnt take too much effort and time and hopefully not involve Sierra much or at all.
Anyways, unless I get any other arguements, I'll shoot off the email later today or tomorrow. Keep yer fingers crossed.
</end value="voice of reason">
Also, I remember seeing Half Life betas on hotline back in the day. MB peeps still have it.
-Owl
[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Owl Boy ]</p>