President Bill Clinton, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella & others praise Apple CEO Tim Cook for publicly

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  • Reply 81 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

     

    @rogifan I think they: 1- know each other 2- are friends.

    I don't think Clinton knows you, does he?

     

    Also, @auxio if you look up #gamergate on google, you'll find being a straight woman is grounds for discrimination.

     

    Little white male rant coming up:

    Actually, even being WHITE MALE is grounds for discrimination, like being a white male farmer in West Africa. Few are still there, most left losing everything. We humans aren't very good with not discriminating the local minorities. We're getting better, because after a few enlightened people, some of which of colour, in the USA and in France, back in the 18th century, brought that idea out that color did not matter, we started evolving the idea that all humans should be equal. However, we still have a tremendous way to go, towards all and each. If at least, like Tim Cook, we'd all admit how privileged we are, thanks to the sacrifice of others, we'd help out so much.




    (Paraphrasing here) As someone once said, as soon as they get the racial discrimination thing sorted, people will find all new ways to discriminate.

     

    The "us versus them" mentality is not going away anytime soon.

  • Reply 82 of 162
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,717member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     



    What about if Tim Cook said he was a member of a Tea Party group? Would liberals and progressives denounce Apple?

     

    I know that the founder of Whole Foods (John Mackey) has strong political opinions and that has earned Whole Foods the wrath of liberals/progressives. In fact, he was told by his board to shut up about it when he's in the public eye.


     

    There's a huge difference between coming out in support of political ideologies and coming out in support of human rights causes.  The former is usually done to advance one's personal agenda, whereas the latter is usually done for the benefit of others.

  • Reply 83 of 162
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elehcdn View Post

     

    Reading through this thread and the earlier thread, my opinion on this is that it was good that Tim Cook came out and was open about his sexuality. I think it is good PR for him to get out in front of this and make it his statement, rather than waiting for the press to catch him in a candid moment and "out" him at a time of their bidding.

     

    People keep on talking about a distraction, but if this is a distraction, what better time to take a break from the business - Apple just had a successful launch of a new generation of phones that are putting a huge dent in their competition; they have laid out the roadmap for current and future products; are entering a new lucrative market (ApplePay); and in almost every way are basking in the glow of success. Why not make the announcement now when things are good, rather than have it leak out at some point when Apple is under stress?

     

    Being forthcoming to the media is something that more CEOs should be - it keeps the rumor mills from making up things and speculating on lifestyle issues. How many CEOs have been drawn through the muck for marital infidelities or prostitutes? How many have had to answer in the glaring spotlight about other personal matters at absolutely the wrong time. By coming out at a time of his choosing, Cook can spin the whole thing in the best manner and turn it into a plus for the company, as opposed to what can happen when news comes out at the most inopportune time.


    Sexual orientation is none of the public's business, I understand that Cook is in the public's eye but he should have kept this to himself, I don't want to know, because I don't care and it shouldn't be a big deal. Americans make way to much out of this, what Cook did will just be used to further certain individuals political agendas, he's the CEO of a tech company, that is all I want to know about the man.

  • Reply 84 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     



    (Paraphrasing here) As someone once said, as soon as they get the racial discrimination thing sorted, people will find all new ways to discriminate.

     

    The "us versus them" mentality is not going away anytime soon.




    I wish you were wrong, but I'm very afraid. There is a study about that indian city in the US desert somewhere that went empty, and it basically says "as years went by, two communities formed that started disposing each other up to the point they self-destroyed through civil war".

     

    Maybe we're just a broken species that evolved wrong somewhere...

  • Reply 85 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Sexual orientation is none of the public's business, I understand that Cook is in the public's eye but he should have kept this to himself, I don't want to know, because I don't care and it shouldn't be a big deal. Americans make way to much out of this, what Cook did will just be used to further certain individuals political agendas, he's the CEO of a tech company, that is all I want to know about the man.




    Americans make too much out of it, but that's exactly why he decided he had to share it with the world. 

    Also, being French, I was ashamed when my country had the whole gay marriage debate and so many people showed to still harbor such outdated, medieval thoughts. Cook's declaration force these people to crawl back in their holes instead of pretending that "normal people aren't gay" and all that crap.

  • Reply 86 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    auxio wrote: »
    There's a huge difference between coming out in support of political ideologies and coming out in support of human rights causes.  The former is usually done to advance one's personal agenda, whereas the latter is usually done for the benefit of others.
    Who decides what's political and what's not? As far as I'm concerned most gay rights issues are political. I don't buy this human rights BS.
  • Reply 87 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Sexual orientation is none of the public's business, I understand that Cook is in the public's eye but he should have kept this to himself, I don't want to know, because I don't care and it shouldn't be a big deal. Americans make way to much out of this, what Cook did will just be used to further certain individuals political agendas, he's the CEO of a tech company, that is all I want to know about the man.




    Also, you being in Switzerland... I have many friends earning high salaries there who have to live in Germany/France because so many Swiss will only rent to Swiss people. Discrimination is an evil that hides everywhere.

  • Reply 88 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Who decides what's political and what's not? As far as I'm concerned most gay rights issues are political. I don't buy this human rights BS.



    "Human rights" is political by nature. I'm flabbergasted at the way people now use the word "political". Hell, anything that concerns the public sphere, the management of the "polis", is "political". Human rights are political. Gay rights are political. Any rule applied by a government, a "law" or a "decree" or a "treaty", is "political". Anything that causes public debate and could transform into a law or decree or treaty is political.

     

    That simple.

  • Reply 89 of 162
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member

    What about if Tim Cook said he was a member of a Tea Party group? Would liberals and progressives denounce Apple?

    I know that the founder of Whole Foods (John Mackey) has strong political opinions and that has earned Whole Foods the wrath of liberals/progressives. In fact, he was told by his board to shut up about it when he's in the public eye.

    Tim Cook comes out and there is a collective "meh" from conservatives. The (former) CEO of Mozilla comes out in support of traditional marriage and he's rut out of his job, forced to leave. I'm sorry but the liberals are some of the least tolerant people I know. But so long as gays and gay rights supports are able to wrap their cause under the banner of "human rights" it's impossible for anyone to have a different viewpoint without being branded a hater and a bigot.
  • Reply 90 of 162

    File this under "BFD". Straight, gay, whatevah… couldn't care less about anyone's orientation who is not in my personal life. The only thing that matters to me is that Tim Cook has kept Apple - a company whose products I love quite a bit - running smoothly and very successfully for the past 15+ years, and for that I would gladly give him a big ol' bear hug (not one of those fruity E.T.-finger-touchy-thingy's).

     

    And so what if Bill Clinton gives Cook kudos for coming out? His sexual orientation means nothing to him personally… why not applaud Tim for doing an incredibly awesome job of running one of the most successful American businesses in the history of the nation instead? 

  • Reply 91 of 162
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,717member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

     

    Also, @auxio if you look up #gamergate on google, you'll find being a straight woman is grounds for discrimination.


     

    The gamergate thing is a bit different.  I don't feel it can be equated to the direct emotional & physical abuse one can experience by being a gay or lesbian.  I haven't heard a single case where a woman took her own life because of stereotyping and underrepresentation in video games.

     

    That said, it's certainly something that the video game industry (and entertainment industries in general) need to deal with.  The fact that their actions are helping to create a world in which women aren't viewed and treated as equals.  But again, this day and this action by Tim Cook are the main issue we're discussing in this forum.

  • Reply 92 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Tim Cook comes out and there is a collective "meh" from conservatives. The (former) CEO of Mozilla comes out in support of traditional marriage and he's rut out of his job, forced to leave. I'm sorry but the liberals are some of the least tolerant people I know. But so long as gays and gay rights supports are able to wrap their cause under the banner of "human rights" it's impossible for anyone to have a different viewpoint without being branded a hater and a bigot.



    Ewww. I'm afraid this falls under "irreconcilable differences". Enjoy your day, I'll enjoy my night. And then I'll go back to my gay friendly company and enjoy my day, knowing that thankfully, people who risked their lives and sometimes lost it to make our world better have earned me this environment. Kudos to them, not to you.

  • Reply 93 of 162
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,717member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    Who decides what's political and what's not? As far as I'm concerned most gay rights issues are political. I don't buy this human rights BS.

     

    I don't understand how someone can seriously believe that an issue which is related to something a person is born with and can't change (sexual orientation, gender, race) and which causes them to be marginalized and abused, is the same as a personal preference in how society is governed?

  • Reply 94 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    The gamergate thing is a bit different.  I don't feel it can be equated to the direct emotional & physical abuse one can experience by being a gay or lesbian.  I haven't heard a single case where a woman took her own life because of stereotyping and underrepresentation in video games.

     

    That said, it's certainly something that the video game industry (and entertainment industries in general) need to deal with.  The fact that their actions are helping to create a world in which women aren't viewed and treated as equals.  But again, this day and this action by Tim Cook are the main issue we're discussing in this forum.




    I did not mean that much to be honest, just the fact that being a woman is grounds enough to be discriminated against, which is pretty clear from the data that came out through gamer gate.  Quite obviously, in the western world, gay people are still discriminated more violently against than women are, but discrimination against women is subtle and vicious. Your scientific article might be refused when a man's would have been accepted. Your chance of being hired might be smaller than a man's if you're in a relationship. This is quite common. 

     

    Also, "direct emotional & physical abuse"... women die under violent assault in the Western World way more often than I thought, as last awareness campaign informed me. To my opinion, this action by Tim Cook cannot be summed up as "just a gay thing". It's an act towards all minorities, or I'm very mistaken reading his statement.

  • Reply 95 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    I don't understand how someone can seriously believe that an issue which is related to something a person is born with and can't change (sexual orientation, gender, race) and which causes them to be marginalized and abused, is the same as a personal preference in how society is governed?




    Actually, gender can be changed nowadays. And, at the cost of sounding even more insane than I already do... I believe that some day, we'll also be able to change race. We'll switch bodies like we switch clothing nowadays, staying forever young, but not forever male and caucasian, or female and asian, or whatever combination suited you the previous day.

  • Reply 96 of 162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     



    I'm unfamiliar with Mozilla's story... but yes, I'm well aware of the one-way street theory. ;)




    Brendan Eich was the newly minted CEO (the guy was a cofounder of the Mozilla Foundation and created JavaScript!), some websites kicked up a stink because he contributed $1000 to a fund supporting California's Proposition 8 (which passed with a solid majority) back in 2008, claiming he was a bigot and unworthy to run a company, then it turned into a full blown scandal with every media type jumping on the bandwagon, Mozilla forced him to step down. His opinion didn't match the vocal minority, so naturally he was punished.

  • Reply 97 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

     



    Ewww. I'm afraid this falls under "irreconcilable differences". Enjoy your day, I'll enjoy my night. And then I'll go back to my gay friendly company and enjoy my day, knowing that thankfully, people who risked their lives and sometimes lost it to make our world better have earned me this environment. Kudos to them, not to you.


     

    Basically, you're fine with people being run out of their job if their opinion doesn't agree with yours. Noted.

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auxio View Post

     

     

    I don't understand how someone can seriously believe that an issue which is related to something a person is born with and can't change (sexual orientation, gender, race) and which causes them to be marginalized and abused, is the same as a personal preference in how society is governed?




    Some people may have desires to rob banks, that doesn't mean we should be accepting of that desire.

  • Reply 98 of 162
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,717member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

    Some people may have desires to rob banks, that doesn't mean we should be accepting of that desire.


     

    And here we get the heart of the matter: believe that sexuality is personal preference/desire and not something one is born with.  If you believe that in spite of all the scientific evidence to the contrary, then I'm afraid there's no point in continuing our debate.

  • Reply 99 of 162
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,717member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

     



    Actually, gender can be changed nowadays. And, at the cost of sounding even more insane than I already do... I believe that some day, we'll also be able to change race. We'll switch bodies like we switch clothing nowadays, staying forever young, but not forever male and caucasian, or female and asian, or whatever combination suited you the previous day.


     

    ok, now you're just being a contrarian. :p

     

    If/when all those things are possible, I'd hope that people are doing them because they want to and not to avoid discrimination.  But I fear that wouldn't be the case.

  • Reply 100 of 162
    Wasn't this public knowledge at least since he rose to the position of CEO? I thought he had come out in previous interviews and talked openly about growing up gay in the south. Have all those other stories I've read simply been conjecture?
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