How Apple, Inc. went thermonuclear on Samsung, erasing Android's primary profit center

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  • Reply 181 of 315
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    If Xiaomi, Lenovo, and other Chinese brands are stealing Samsungs high end sales why does Samsung only make commericals to bash Apple?

     

    Because Samsung is NOT SCARED of Xiaomi.  They are scared of Apple.

     

    Xiaomi is a POS copycat 4th rate company.  The only reason they are in operation is because they have $$$ from the Communist Party.




    yes in most of Asia it is Xiaomi et al that are eating SS's lunch. but in the USA and Japan it's Apple.

  • Reply 182 of 315
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Xiaomi is eating Samsungs mid/low end phone sales.  Not top end.  Why is this so hard for people to understand?

     


     

    that's right. you misunderstood my comment. the point is, SS is getting drubbed from both sides at once.

  • Reply 183 of 315
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    sog35 wrote: »
    If Xiaomi, Lenovo, and other Chinese brands are stealing Samsungs high end sales why does Samsung only make commericals to bash Apple?

    Because Samsung is NOT SCARED of Xiaomi.  They are scared of Apple.

    Xiaomi is a POS copycat 4th rate company.  The only reason they are in operation is because they have $$$ from the Communist Party.

    Maybe because those phones aren't sold in the US at least not by the carriers.
  • Reply 184 of 315
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    If Xiaomi, Lenovo, and other Chinese brands are stealing Samsungs high end sales why does Samsung only make commericals to bash Apple?

     

    Because Samsung is NOT SCARED of Xiaomi.  They are scared of Apple.

     

    Xiaomi is a POS copycat 4th rate company.  The only reason they are in operation is because they have $$$ from the Communist Party.


     

    1) Sure, Samsung makes ads/commercials in all markets, including China.  Samsung spends well over $10B in marketing and ads.  Samsung didn't have to bash lesser competitors, just in the same way Apple attacked MS (eg, "Get a Mac" campaign), but not Moto.

     

    2) Go read Samsung's annual statement from 2013 where they clearly warned about growing threats from the Chinese competitors and declining sales. They never made such warning about Apple.

     

    3) No disputing that Xiaomi is a copycat. It doesn't really matter at all.  Everyone copies in this business -- and yes that also includes Apple.

  • Reply 185 of 315
    Ha ha . Screw Samsung. They are getting what they deserve being the bottom-feeding, idea-stealing troll they are. Just like they did to Sharp. Karma baby, karma! Good. I'll never buy a product of theirs. During the trial the Koran Gov't raided Samsung at Apple's behalf and found emails from company execs stating specifically stated to "copy" 127 different items from the iPhone.

    They also destroyed the high quality Japanese TV makers like Panasonic, etc.

    These Korean and Chinese companies are the same type of corporate leeches and thieves.
  • Reply 186 of 315
    joshajosha Posts: 901member

    Never the less Google still makes advertising money off android, but they must be concerned that the android customers generally are of a lower income category.

     

    A friend who bought a Samsung android a year after I bought my iPhone 4, is increasingly unhappy with it's limitations and difficulties upgrading it's OS.

    My iPhone 4 now upgraded to iOS7, has much superior function to android on her Samsung  phone.

  • Reply 187 of 315
    joshajosha Posts: 901member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Satch99 View Post



    Ha ha . Screw Samsung. They are getting what they deserve being the bottom-feeding, idea-stealing troll they are. Just like they did to Sharp. Karma baby, karma! Good. I'll never buy a product of theirs. During the trial the Koran Gov't raided Samsung at Apple's behalf and found emails from company execs stating specifically stated to "copy" 127 different items from the iPhone.



    They also destroyed the high quality Japanese TV makers like Panasonic, etc.

    A yr ago I replaced my 24" Samsung LCD monitor.

    It's image quality  started going downhill just after the guarantee period ended, eventually totally failing.

    NEVER AGAIN SAMSUNG for anything !!!

  • Reply 188 of 315
    You know, i understand that all the rabid Apple fans will view things differently than others and have different varying opinions and all, but to say that hordes of people are leaving Android and Samsung for Apple is just factually inaccurate. Are some people going to Apple? yes. More than new people going to Android or leaving Apple? No. Everyone likes what they like, and its not a bad thing to feel strongly about something you enjoy made by a company, but lets not distort reality. http://www.cnet.com/news/android-stays-unbeatable-in-smartphone-market-for-now/
  • Reply 189 of 315
    formosa wrote: »
    You read more into it than I did. I took the "truck" to mean a utility vehicle (not an SUV) that is necessary to get the job done but has no sizzle nor emotion. A beige box PC. A Lenovo smartphone.

    The "car" is more personal and personalizable. An iMac or iPhone.

    I'd like to find the clip of Jobs' making this analogy (I can't do that at work now). I forget the details of his analogy.

    Steve Jobs' truck vs car analogy was actually talking about full computers vs mobile tablets.

    Full computers will always be needed to run certain types of software... real Photoshop, video editing, CAD, etc.

    Those are the trucks.

    But most regular consumers simply need to do light duties like checking email, browsing social media, etc. A small light device can handle those tasks.

    Those are the cars.
  • Reply 190 of 315
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,056member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Google's profits are also hurting.

     

    Xiaomi and Amazon do not run Google services so they are not making any profits on those devices.  Many of the Chinese brands also don't run Google services.  Apple is also slowly moving away from Google services:  First maps, than Siri, now spotlight search.  IMO, its only a matter of time before Google gets replaced as the default search engine on iOS devices.  I'd like to see Apple buy DuckDuckGo and turn it into AppleSearch.

     

    More people are using Apps like Facebook to do their searches instead of Google.

    More people are using Amazon to do searches for product instead of Google.

    Less people are using desktop as their main computer (desktops have the highest advertising rates)

     

    last quarter Google had a 5% profit decline.  I bet hardly anyone knows this.  Why?  Because Google reports NON-GAAP earnings.  This is some BS that Google made up that does not take into account losses from discountined operations (Motorola) and Stock compensation.  Really?  How is Stock compensation not a part of operating expense?  Most of the big wigs get 90% of their income from Stock plans.  Last quarter Google had $1,000,000,000 in stock comp.

     

    The outrageous part is all the media outlets report Googles NON-GAAP BS earnings instead of the industry standard GAAP earnings.  When taking out the losses from Motorolla and the $1B paid to the big wigs they showed a 15% profit growth.  What an utter scam.


    However, the ball is still in Google's court. If needed, Google can make android a closed source and crew all android device manufacturers by making them pay for licensing it. Those manufacturers have no choice. At that time Samsung will probably move to Tizen and slowly die in oblivion while Xiaomi will move to some kind Szechuan Chinese developed OS. That would be some day when android device manufacturers go out of line and Google can't control them but have to make adjustment.

  • Reply 191 of 315
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post





    Wrong! They have a lot to do with it! Having lived in China for the last 6 years I can tell you that xiaomei is rapidly replacing Samsung, especially with younger buyers. And xiaomei is accelerating this trend by expanding sales throughout Asia, and adding a new focus on the West.

     

    It is tough to put this point across here.  Some people just read things on the internet and think that Xiaomi's phones are "low end models."

     

    No, whatever the western media called Xiaomi's phones, features wise, some of the Xiaomi, Oppo and Huawei models are phones with high end features and a low price.  Can people understand the concept of high end phones with low price?  This phenomenon can happen when a phone maker just want market share and forgo profit margin. That is why all foreign brand phones such as Sony and Samsung are slaughtered by Xiaomi and other local Chinese phone makers in China. 

     

    Apple fortunately has a strong branding in China and a vastly superior ecosystem and are doing very well in China because many Chinese are willing to pay for iphone.

     

    Is Xiaomi going to destroy Apple?  Can't see it for now.  Apple has too strong an ecosystem and customer base for Xiaomi.  The only company that can destroy Apple is Apple itself.

     

    Before iphone 6 and 6 plus, Samsung was already losing to China and other Android makers.  Let's not imagine it was Apple that has caused Samsung to implode.  This article should be published 3 months later after the new iphone 6 and 6 plus cause more misery to Samsung and other Android makers.

     

    We are looking at Samsung financial results for the past quarter whereby iphone 6 and 6 plus didn't exist for large part of the time.

    This talk about people anticipating larger screen new iphone and holding out before buying a new phone?  Frankly, a large majority of the people holding out are existing iphone users anyway.  Plus, many people, including people on this forum didn't even believe in the rumours that Apple was going to make an iphone with screen bigger than 5".  And now suddenly there were so many people holding out for big screen iphone.

  • Reply 192 of 315
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    sog35 wrote: »

    The outrageous part is all the media outlets report Googles NON-GAAP BS earnings instead of the industry standard GAAP earnings.  When taking out the losses from Motorolla and the $1B paid to the big wigs they showed a 15% profit growth.  What an utter scam.
    What the heck are you going on about? Here's a statement from Microsoft announcing their latest results:
    "We have provided this Non-GAAP financial information to aid investors in better understanding the company’s performance. All growth comparisons relate to the corresponding period in the last fiscal year."

    IBM uses non-GAAP reporting. AMD too. So does Twitter. And Hewlett-Packard. And Tesla. In fact it looks like most publicly-traded techs include non-GAAP figures in their earnings reports.

    Non-industry standard my a**.

    So why non-GAAP? Read up.
    http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/corporate_finance/building_a_better_income_statement
  • Reply 193 of 315
    512ke512ke Posts: 782member

    Samsung was already having trouble with Apple in China even before the 6 was announced.  

     

    An Android phone is an Android phone.  If you're Samsung and somebody undercuts you on price, it's hard to justify a price premium for your product just based on the Galaxy Brand.

     

    If you're Apple, your phones have unique value, in terms of technology, status, and integration.

     

    Samsung is basically the new Dell.

     

    The best move for Samsung would be to release new premium products based on its own Tizen operating system, but then Google, is **** blocking them from doing so.

     

    Samsung is a great manufacturer -- they could kick *** with their own integrated OS.

     

    Sammy should stand up to Google and copy Apple ALL the way -- by making a Tizen OS ecosystem that sets them apart from Android.

  • Reply 194 of 315
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    sog35 wrote: »
    You read up. 

    GAAP is the standard you TOOL.  Thats why every single public company in the USA needs to report on GAAP basis.

    Here's a pertinent article that you'll probably ignore.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/11/11/these-20-tech-firms-report-the-most-fictional-earnings/

    Bogus or not (in your opinion) non-GAAP is still a tech industry standard. Google isn't even the worst.
  • Reply 195 of 315
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    sog35 wrote: »
    "On average, these companies reported 23% higher income under the non-GAAP measure."

    from the article.

    Its so obvious.  Companies like Google love to report NON-GAAP to make their earnings look better.  They are basicly hiding the facts.

    Please explain to me why Stock Compensation (which is 90% of executive pay) should not be accounted for?  Google simply does not count Stock Comp in their NON GAAP BS reports.  Total and UTTER misleading.  Stock Comp totaled close to $4,000,000,000 last year for Google.
    Your claim is that "The outrageous part is all the media outlets report Googles NON-GAAP BS earnings instead of the industry standard GAAP earnings." The tech industry standard uses non-GAAP does it not? Of course it does.

    The sentence prior to the one you quoted: "56 out of 69 tech companies published non-GAAP income figures in 2011 and 2012."
  • Reply 196 of 315
    I think it's finally time to start breaking down the smartphone market into different segments.

    There needs to be clear distinctions between low-end, mid-range and high-end smartphones.

    A $75 smartphone should not be on the same list as a $400 smartphone or an $800 smartphone.

    But that's exactly how it's presented. Reports say 327 million "smartphones" were shipped last quarter... without any further explanation.

    And that doesn't really help much.
  • Reply 197 of 315
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    I think it's finally time to start breaking down the smartphone market into different segments.

    There needs to be clear distinctions between low-end, mid-range and high-end smartphones.

    A $75 smartphone should not be on the same list as a $400 smartphone or an $800 smartphone.

    But that's exactly how it's presented. Reports say 327 million "smartphones" were shipped last quarter... without any further explanation.

    And that doesn't really help much.

    Is a recommended retail price the differentiator? There's a lot of very good smartphones with very good hardware and very good displays that aren't priced at $700+ like some smartphones. An example off the top of my head would be the Moto G.
  • Reply 198 of 315
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Android users switching to iPhone6

     

    http://www.redmondpie.com/android-users-are-rapidly-switching-to-iphone-6-according-to-report/

     

    There were always quality Android phones besides Samsung.  Why didn't Samsung tank in 2013?  HTC had the ONE, Moto had the X, ect, ect.  Yet Samsung was still selling a ton of high end phones.  Yet when Apple brings out a big phone Samsung profits tank 75%.  Do you not see the correlation?




    There is no correlation unless you support the notion that an event in the future can influence events in the past.

  • Reply 199 of 315
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,056member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

     

    Sammy should stand up to Google and copy Apple ALL the way -- by making a Tizen OS ecosystem that sets them apart from Android.


     

    Apps? who will develop apps for them?

  • Reply 200 of 315
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,056member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    We do this in almost every other sector.

     

    We compare BMW unit sales vs Lexus, Merc, ect.

     

    we dont compare BMW unit sales to Nissan.

     

    Price is the KEY differentiator in market data.


    and profit margin.

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