Not going to waste anymore time on this. The only point I was originally making and that you disagreed with is that there are other companies capable of supplying touch identification tech besides Authentec and Apple. You were obviously unaware of that. It's really quite simple: You were incorrect, 'nuff said.
I didn't say that. It's just that many of the companies manufacturing these phones have a history of working around patents rather than fairly licensing technology (especially when only distributing products in China, where patents tend to be difficult to enforce).
So I was a bit skeptical when I first looked that the fingerprint sensor technology used in the Ascend, but after a quick look at the FPC site, I see that they've publicly announced it. So I'm satisfied that a reputable company is behind it.
I didn't say that. It's just that many of the companies manufacturing these phones have a history of working around patents rather than fairly licensing technology (especially when only distributing products in China, where patents tend to be difficult to enforce).
So I was a bit skeptical when I first looked that the fingerprint sensor technology used in the Ascend, but after a quick look at the FPC site, I see that they've publicly announced it. So I'm satisfied that a reputable company is behind it.
I am not sure you understand patents. Working around a patent is a perfect legal and encouraged way of inventing. A patent is a specific process.
Take the lightbulb for example, there are millions (or however many really) of patents for it, but they are all revolve around heating a wire till it glows. Each patent really only covered a specific material the wire was made out of. If you changed the material it would be a different invention. By your way, if everyone stuck with the first invented method we would all be using very dim and short lived bulbs.
But it only went that way after it became a choice between a $0 feature phone and a $0 low-end smart phone. Of course people are going to pick the best device they can get at the same price point.
What I'm talking about is something like: a feature phone with a $100 rebate on your first 3 months of cellular service vs a $0 low-end smart phone with no such rebate. Are people going for low-end smart phones (like the vast majority of Android phones being sold) willing to trade features for a rebate? My money is on yes.
That applies here because it then leads into the fact that most people who buy low-end phones don't really take the time to learn about the different features available (like Google Wallet).
The choice of free feature phones, or free smartphone didn't happen overnight. It's what the market dictated.
What carrier is going to offer a $100, rebate on a plan that's at most $40 a month.
If this is true more of carriers would push feature phones. They don't. Because they know in the long run selling smart phones will be more profitable because of data usage.
It's all about return-on-investment. They'll push whichever phone gives them the highest. If they have to pay a $500 subsidy and they make $1000 profit over the 2-year contract, it's no different than if they paid $100 subsidy and only made $600 over the 2-year contract.
I question the legitimacy of the tech in that ad. It would appear that it works faster and easier than even Touch ID or swiping a credit card. That's questionable considering the performance of the technology that could be in a card. Where does the power come? How many data points does it use for authentication? My guess is that it can't be as secure as Touch ID or other fingerprint-based biometrics in other smartphones.
Also, If you can still use your card like a regular card then what is the point of the biometric? Is is really saving time over simply sliding the card?
So do those other devices you mentioned have a Touch ID-like biometric or do you slide your finger? The OPPO N3 has a sensor in the back which they demo with a sliding finger for scrolling, but not sure how the fingerprint sensor works.
Keep moving the goalposts from "there's no one but Authentec", to "there's no one actually shipping them" to "there's no smartphones that use 'em" and you're bond to nail it eventually.
With the revived interest in mobile pay systems you can be pretty certain there's many more smartphones with touch ID sensors to come.
Apple finger print sensor previously owned by Authentech is patented.
I didn't say that. It's just that many of the companies manufacturing these phones have a history of working around patents rather than fairly licensing technology (especially when only distributing products in China, where patents tend to be difficult to enforce).
So I was a bit skeptical when I first looked that the fingerprint sensor technology used in the Ascend, but after a quick look at the FPC site, I see that they've publicly announced it. So I'm satisfied that a reputable company is behind it.
Could be that the option to license the technology is not available.
The choice of free feature phones, or free smartphone didn't happen overnight. It's what the market dictated.
It's what happened when the hardware components were being manufactured and sold in higher quantities (economies of scale) and Android OS made it very cheap for manufacturers to have a software interface to those components (i.e. they didn't have to pay for the software to be developed or pay licensing fees). Manufacturers could then make more complex (smart) phones as cheaply as feature phones.
Quote:
What carrier is going to offer a $100, rebate on a plan that's at most $40 a month.
I already gave an example of how this might happen (government subsidies to prevent e-waste) so that we could move beyond it and consider something about consumer rationale related to this article. But I guess people would rather argue the details than see the point.
Could be that the option to license the technology is not available.
Them's the brakes. Either pay for the R&D to have your own technology (as Apple does) or forgo it. Reverse-engineering and trying to work around patents deincentivizes innovation.
And that patent will be tested against shipping products from competitors. There's more than one way to read a fingerprint.
I think the two companies try to steal Apple innovation in two steps. First, they put it on the back. Then they put it on the home button exactly like Apple.
I am not sure you understand patents. Working around a patent is a perfect legal and encouraged way of inventing. A patent is a specific process.
So then, it's fair if someone invests millions of dollars in coming up with an innovative fingerprint recognition technology, and then someone else comes along and copies it identically aside from simply changing the coating on the sensor, and sells the same product for cheaper because they didn't have to do any of the expensive R&D work?
I'm not saying that's the case here (FPC has a history in biometrics), but there needs to be some incentive to invest in innovation.
Auxio, you keep repeating about Apple's R&D coming up with their fingerprint technology. As is commonly the case, Apple purchased this technology from another company and integrated it into their own product(s) to great success. In this case it's Authentec's R&D that did the leg work. Apple is the company responsible for the successful implementation of that technology.
Not going to waste anymore time on this. The only point I was originally making and that you disagreed with is that there are other companies capable of supplying touch identification tech besides Authentec and Apple. You were obviously unaware of that. It's really quite simple: You were incorrect, 'nuff said.
It's important to note that it's not just about the fingerprint scanning. It's also about the secure chip to provide the tokenization. It's also about the operating system integrating all the technology to make it easy to use and difficult to hack.
One of the best things about TouchID is that Apple controls every part of the system - part of the reason they bought Authentec instead of licensing the technology - that way they can customize the technology to work as part of a full eco-system. This type of integration is going to be difficult as long as phone and tablet hardware manufacturers continue to use someone else's operating system i.e., Android.
Heck, as much press as the GTAT lawsuit is getting reminds me that Apple is the only manufacturer that I know of that is using sapphire for their fingerprint reader. You have to wonder about the long term durability of other fingerprint readers.
I am not sure you understand patents. Working around a patent is a perfect legal and encouraged way of inventing. A patent is a specific process.
Take the lightbulb for example, there are millions (or however many really) of patents for it, but they are all revolve around heating a wire till it glows. Each patent really only covered a specific material the wire was made out of. If you changed the material it would be a different invention. By your way, if everyone stuck with the first invented method we would all be using very dim and short lived bulbs.
I don't think you understand patents. Your discussion on the lightbulb is only from your imagination. The total number of US patents is only millions. Millions of them on lightbulb? From your words I can see you are lying. Further, Edison failed a thousand times before he succeeded. So it is not easy to make a little modification here and there to make a new lightbulb. Please educate yourself studying the finger print sensor patent by Authentech.
Auxio, you keep repeating about Apple's R&D coming up with their fingerprint technology. As is commonly the case, Apple purchased this technology from another company and integrated it into their own product(s) to great success. In this case it's Authentec's R&D that did the leg work. Apple is the company responsible for the successful implementation of that technology.
This is not accurate. Apple bought Authentec. Authentec R&D now are Apple R&D.
Auxio, you keep repeating about Apple's R&D coming up with their fingerprint technology. As is commonly the case, Apple purchased this technology from another company and integrated it into their own product(s) to great success. In this case it's Authentec's R&D that did the leg work. Apple is the company responsible for the successful implementation of that technology.
1) And Tim Cook came from Compaq so what he does for Apple, even at great success, is not a product of Apple, but rather Compaq? No! i guess their A-serires chips aren't really their work either since they license from ARM, not to mention other companies that design other parts of their SoCs.
2) Show me where Authentec had Touch ID has it existed with the iPhone 5S? You won't find it because what Apple did was integrate it into their own HW and SW to make it work. Even if Authentec had done all the work for the Touch ID sensor in the Home Button there was still a mountain of work to be done to make it into a defining iDevice feature.
Comments
http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-Huawei-MT7-TL10-Hisilicon-FDD-LTE/dp/B00NLYMXK2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415224191&sr=1-1&keywords=huawei+ascend+mate+7
Not going to waste anymore time on this. The only point I was originally making and that you disagreed with is that there are other companies capable of supplying touch identification tech besides Authentec and Apple. You were obviously unaware of that. It's really quite simple: You were incorrect, 'nuff said.
FPC stole Apple's IP? That's your claim?
I didn't say that. It's just that many of the companies manufacturing these phones have a history of working around patents rather than fairly licensing technology (especially when only distributing products in China, where patents tend to be difficult to enforce).
So I was a bit skeptical when I first looked that the fingerprint sensor technology used in the Ascend, but after a quick look at the FPC site, I see that they've publicly announced it. So I'm satisfied that a reputable company is behind it.
I didn't say that. It's just that many of the companies manufacturing these phones have a history of working around patents rather than fairly licensing technology (especially when only distributing products in China, where patents tend to be difficult to enforce).
So I was a bit skeptical when I first looked that the fingerprint sensor technology used in the Ascend, but after a quick look at the FPC site, I see that they've publicly announced it. So I'm satisfied that a reputable company is behind it.
I am not sure you understand patents. Working around a patent is a perfect legal and encouraged way of inventing. A patent is a specific process.
Take the lightbulb for example, there are millions (or however many really) of patents for it, but they are all revolve around heating a wire till it glows. Each patent really only covered a specific material the wire was made out of. If you changed the material it would be a different invention. By your way, if everyone stuck with the first invented method we would all be using very dim and short lived bulbs.
The choice of free feature phones, or free smartphone didn't happen overnight. It's what the market dictated.
What carrier is going to offer a $100, rebate on a plan that's at most $40 a month.
If this is true more of carriers would push feature phones. They don't. Because they know in the long run selling smart phones will be more profitable because of data usage.
It's all about return-on-investment. They'll push whichever phone gives them the highest. If they have to pay a $500 subsidy and they make $1000 profit over the 2-year contract, it's no different than if they paid $100 subsidy and only made $600 over the 2-year contract.
I question the legitimacy of the tech in that ad. It would appear that it works faster and easier than even Touch ID or swiping a credit card. That's questionable considering the performance of the technology that could be in a card. Where does the power come? How many data points does it use for authentication? My guess is that it can't be as secure as Touch ID or other fingerprint-based biometrics in other smartphones.
Also, If you can still use your card like a regular card then what is the point of the biometric? Is is really saving time over simply sliding the card?
So do those other devices you mentioned have a Touch ID-like biometric or do you slide your finger? The OPPO N3 has a sensor in the back which they demo with a sliding finger for scrolling, but not sure how the fingerprint sensor works.
You really can't research this for yourself?
OPPO N3
Ascend Mate 7
Keep moving the goalposts from "there's no one but Authentec", to "there's no one actually shipping them" to "there's no smartphones that use 'em" and you're bond to nail it eventually.
With the revived interest in mobile pay systems you can be pretty certain there's many more smartphones with touch ID sensors to come.
Apple finger print sensor previously owned by Authentech is patented.
Could be that the option to license the technology is not available.
The choice of free feature phones, or free smartphone didn't happen overnight. It's what the market dictated.
It's what happened when the hardware components were being manufactured and sold in higher quantities (economies of scale) and Android OS made it very cheap for manufacturers to have a software interface to those components (i.e. they didn't have to pay for the software to be developed or pay licensing fees). Manufacturers could then make more complex (smart) phones as cheaply as feature phones.
I already gave an example of how this might happen (government subsidies to prevent e-waste) so that we could move beyond it and consider something about consumer rationale related to this article. But I guess people would rather argue the details than see the point.
Could be that the option to license the technology is not available.
Them's the brakes. Either pay for the R&D to have your own technology (as Apple does) or forgo it. Reverse-engineering and trying to work around patents deincentivizes innovation.
Apple finger print sensor previously owned by Authentech is patented.
And that patent will be tested against shipping products from competitors. There's more than one way to read a fingerprint.
And that patent will be tested against shipping products from competitors. There's more than one way to read a fingerprint.
I think the two companies try to steal Apple innovation in two steps. First, they put it on the back. Then they put it on the home button exactly like Apple.
I am not sure you understand patents. Working around a patent is a perfect legal and encouraged way of inventing. A patent is a specific process.
So then, it's fair if someone invests millions of dollars in coming up with an innovative fingerprint recognition technology, and then someone else comes along and copies it identically aside from simply changing the coating on the sensor, and sells the same product for cheaper because they didn't have to do any of the expensive R&D work?
I'm not saying that's the case here (FPC has a history in biometrics), but there needs to be some incentive to invest in innovation.
Really? Show me one.
Blackberry?
http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-Huawei-MT7-TL10-Hisilicon-FDD-LTE/dp/B00NLYMXK2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415224191&sr=1-1&keywords=huawei+ascend+mate+7
Not going to waste anymore time on this. The only point I was originally making and that you disagreed with is that there are other companies capable of supplying touch identification tech besides Authentec and Apple. You were obviously unaware of that. It's really quite simple: You were incorrect, 'nuff said.
It's important to note that it's not just about the fingerprint scanning. It's also about the secure chip to provide the tokenization. It's also about the operating system integrating all the technology to make it easy to use and difficult to hack.
One of the best things about TouchID is that Apple controls every part of the system - part of the reason they bought Authentec instead of licensing the technology - that way they can customize the technology to work as part of a full eco-system. This type of integration is going to be difficult as long as phone and tablet hardware manufacturers continue to use someone else's operating system i.e., Android.
Heck, as much press as the GTAT lawsuit is getting reminds me that Apple is the only manufacturer that I know of that is using sapphire for their fingerprint reader. You have to wonder about the long term durability of other fingerprint readers.
I am not sure you understand patents. Working around a patent is a perfect legal and encouraged way of inventing. A patent is a specific process.
Take the lightbulb for example, there are millions (or however many really) of patents for it, but they are all revolve around heating a wire till it glows. Each patent really only covered a specific material the wire was made out of. If you changed the material it would be a different invention. By your way, if everyone stuck with the first invented method we would all be using very dim and short lived bulbs.
I don't think you understand patents. Your discussion on the lightbulb is only from your imagination. The total number of US patents is only millions. Millions of them on lightbulb? From your words I can see you are lying. Further, Edison failed a thousand times before he succeeded. So it is not easy to make a little modification here and there to make a new lightbulb. Please educate yourself studying the finger print sensor patent by Authentech.
Auxio, you keep repeating about Apple's R&D coming up with their fingerprint technology. As is commonly the case, Apple purchased this technology from another company and integrated it into their own product(s) to great success. In this case it's Authentec's R&D that did the leg work. Apple is the company responsible for the successful implementation of that technology.
This is not accurate. Apple bought Authentec. Authentec R&D now are Apple R&D.
1) And Tim Cook came from Compaq so what he does for Apple, even at great success, is not a product of Apple, but rather Compaq? No! i guess their A-serires chips aren't really their work either since they license from ARM, not to mention other companies that design other parts of their SoCs.
2) Show me where Authentec had Touch ID has it existed with the iPhone 5S? You won't find it because what Apple did was integrate it into their own HW and SW to make it work. Even if Authentec had done all the work for the Touch ID sensor in the Home Button there was still a mountain of work to be done to make it into a defining iDevice feature.