Did you read my "question is" part I wrote? The Android is involved as the current batch of feature phone replacements that such a mythical beast as you described (and I described) would have to compete against them.
They competed against Android already, and they lost.
If Apple did that, it would not have worked as you have to go with a open standard that was already in place (NFC). Otherwise, you'd be asking every retailer to pay for a separate POS attachment for every POS they have. The cost would be way too big and retailers would not support it.
This is why I'm so happy Apple finally got on board with NFC and did it right. The adoption of NFC payments are the future. I love using NFC payments at every chance I get.
Yeah good point. I was thinking more along the lines as Apple providing the terminals and Apple Pay taking off like that. It would have been far more successful in the US but now that I think of it, it would also have been a lot of trouble and high risk especially in Europe where NFC is already off the ground.
Which reminds me, I think the new iPads not accepting ?Pay is a huge mistake since there's a wide open door for iPads as POS systems. if Apple doesn't fill the void soon others will run through that open door(as seen by that former PayPal guy, dammit I can't remember his name and former PayPal position!!)
I believe that's what iBeacon was supposed to be. Whatever happened to iBeacon anyways? Is it still being worked on or has it been scrapped?
Yeah iBeacon is an awesome idea. It's still in development but its a more a "behind the scenes" deal since its not a consumer product that millions of people will be lined up to buy.
What financial incentives? Are the carriers now going to pay people to take a feature phone on plans that earn them less money?
Man is it hard to get some people to see a point here.
Forget the fact that it doesn't make sense for anyone to do this: my question is whether the low-end phone buyers would go for it? If so, then it shows that this is the reason why most Android phone users (i.e. the low-end market) are clueless about features like Google Wallet: because they simply don't care and money is the main thing they care about.
Man is it hard to get some people to see a point here.
Forget the fact that it doesn't make sense for anyone to do this: my question is whether the low-end phone buyers would go for it? If so, then it shows that this is the reason why most Android phone users (i.e. the low-end market) are clueless about features like Google Wallet: because they simply don't care and money is the main thing they care about.
Interesting question then with no way to determine an answer? Fair enough.
1) This was always going to be good for all other NFC-based payment systems as it will bring awareness, get more NFC terminals installed, and, perhaps on a lesser note, get OEMs to offer it more models and non-iOS users to see it as a positional good they now want to use (or use more frequently) because they see ?Pay getting all the media attention.
2) I saw Wells Fargo ?Pay billboard today. I don't know what to think about that except they definitely want it to succeed.
I kinda wish Apple had invented a proprietary standard for use of ?Pay besides NFC.
That way it'll lock out piggybackers and shut fandroids up who think Giggle Pay and ?Pay are the same thing.
That's the last thing I'd like to see. There are several wonderful aspects to their solution, and using the NFC standard is one of them.
What financial incentives? Are the carriers now going to pay people to take a feature phone on plans that earn them less money?
1) I infer cheap v expensive when I see dumb v smart, so if one feels they will only use a cellphone for phone calls then there is no incentive to spend a lot more money on a device and plan.
2) I'm getting into this conversation late, so this may be off topic, but I expect that many more inexpensive phones running Android will start including NFC. I also expect Google to alter how Google Wallet works so that it mirrors ?Pay more, but I don't expect that to happen soon.
I imagine some of that is due to all the discussion about CurrentC/MCX, and the stunts pulled by Rite Aid and CVS. It's actually spreading awareness about not only Apple Pay, but Google Wallet as well.
In any case, I'm glad. Increased adoption of Google Wallet can only help Apple Pay as well. And hurt adoption of the very customer unfriendly and insecure CurrentC.
The Android idiots never knew about contactless payments, they went online and searched for "can I get ?pay on my Android phone" and found out they have something a bit like it. Now it has surged from 0 to a few which is a several hundred % increase.
Apple is doomed.
I think the reason that the Android version didn't take off is because of what we have known for ages. Android owners don't like buying/paying for anything. They don't have much money and the soup kitchen is free.
Forget the fact that it doesn't make sense for anyone to do this: my question is whether the low-end phone buyers would go for it?
Because history has already proven that they won't, and that's my point. Consumers have already spoken, and have said loudly that they're not interested in feature phones.
1) I infer cheap v expensive when I see dumb v smart, so if one feels they will only use a cellphone for phone calls then there is no incentive to spend a lot more money on a device and plan.
2) I'm getting into this conversation late, so this may be off topic, but I expect that many more inexpensive phones running Android will start including NFC. I also expect Google to alter how Google Wallet works so that it mirrors ?Pay more, but I don't expect that to happen soon.
Except that [@]chadbag[/@] wants a 'modern day design' which probably means a metal body, and he wants a good camera, etc, etc... Building such a phone would probably end up costing more than it does making a smartphone, so it being cheap goes out the window.
and yet all those companies have been unable to get their product out of the vaporware stage. But hardware is only half the puzzle. They also need the software which Apple also owns.
and good luck ordering tens of millions of sensors from those companies
Vaporware? You really need to get out and about more. Do a little research, you'll be better for it. At least we're past your claim there's no options but Authentec.
Because history has already proven that they won't, and that's my point. Consumers have already spoken, and have said loudly that they're not interested in feature phones.
But it only went that way after it became a choice between a $0 feature phone and a $0 low-end smart phone. Of course people are going to pick the best device they can get at the same price point.
What I'm talking about is something like: a feature phone with a $100 rebate on your first 3 months of cellular service vs a $0 low-end smart phone with no such rebate. Are people going for low-end smart phones (like the vast majority of Android phones being sold) willing to trade features for a rebate? My money is on yes.
That applies here because it then leads into the fact that most people who buy low-end phones don't really take the time to learn about the different features available (like Google Wallet).
Why would a company give a $100 rebate virtually getting rid of the benefit of subsidizing a phone? Not going to happen. Lets be realistic here: unless all the carriers are subsidizing 95% of the population will opt for smartphones.
What if a government agency tasked with preventing electronics waste from making it's way into landfills (as many feature phones did when they fell out of favour) subsidized it?
Quote:
Again why would a phone company push a $100 phone instead of a $300 phone?
If you're referring to a cellular service provider, then they aren't the ones profiting when someone buys a higher end phone unless they also buy a higher end service plan. In fact, they have to pay a higher subsidy (and thus have to force you onto a more expensive plan to recoup their investment). So they could care less what phone you buy as long as you're tied to a service plan that brings them in more than they paid for the up-front subsidy.
show me a single phone that uses a fingerprint sensor without a swipe besides iphone
till then all those are vaporware.
You really can't research this for yourself?
OPPO N3
Ascend Mate 7
Keep moving the goalposts from "there's no one but Authentec", to "there's no one actually shipping them" to "there's no smartphones that use 'em" and you're bond to nail it eventually.
With the revived interest in mobile pay systems you can be pretty certain there's many more smartphones with touch ID sensors to come.
You really can't research this for yourself?
OPPO N3
Ascend Mate 7
Keep moving the goalposts from "there's no one but Authentec", to "there's no one actually shipping them" to "there's no smartphones that use 'em" and you're bond to nail it eventually.
1) Are these available now? I thought the OPPO N3 wasn't suppose to come out until next month, and even then it's very limited in the countries and carriers it will appear, which means very limited supply.
2) Typing "What phones have non-swipe fingerprint security?" isn't useful. If you know of phones on the market that have fingerprint scanner as good or better than Touch ID then please post videos.
With the revived interest in mobile pay systems you can be pretty certain there's many more smartphones with touch ID sensors to come.
I expect fingerprint biometrics to become more common, but I'm pretty sure Touch ID is an apple trademark.
It also just started shipping this month and it's not available in the US.
Keep moving the goalposts from "there's no one but Authentec", to "there's no one actually shipping them" to "there's no smartphones that use 'em" and you're bond to nail it eventually.
And keep supporting companies that reverse-engineer technology and figure out ways to work around patents. Apple may not always invent things themselves, but at least they play by the rules and either buy the company that did or license the technology from them.
1) Are these available now? I thought the OPPO N3 wasn't suppose to come out until next month, and even then it's very limited in the countries and carriers it will appear, which means very limited supply.
2) Typing "What phones have non-swipe fingerprint security?" isn't useful. If you know of phones on the market that have fingerprint scanner as good or better than Touch ID then please post videos.
I expect fingerprint biometrics to become more common, but I'm pretty sure Touch ID is an apple trademark.
The discussion wasn't about good or better or worse. Sog confidently claimed Authentec to be the only option, which it plainly is not. Even the existence of just the Ascend Mate, ignoring the OPPO for now, deals with his 'vaporware" assertion that no one else yet offers one on a smartphone.
I've not read anything about how good the others are, tho FPC apparently is secure and reliable enough for Mastercard to recommend them. (Did you ever see their video of the CC with an embedded fingerprint sensor? It's real, field-tested and in use) Apple Touch ID would of course be the gold standard that everyone will be compared to.
Also just because Apple owns a trademark doesn't preclude someone else from using a touch identification sensor of course. Thanks for checking the status of the trademark tho as I didn't know it it was ever awarded to Apple or not.
And keep supporting companies that reverse-engineer technology and figure out ways to work around patents. Apple may not always invent things themselves, but at least they play by the rules and either buy the company that did or license the technology from them.
Yeah, I'm sure it isn't anymore now that I've opened your eyes to the fact options beside Authentec exist. Why am I not surprised you're unhappy about learning something you didn't know when the day started.
It's not about promoting someone else, but should be about coming away with a better understanding of the facts than you began with.
Comments
They competed against Android already, and they lost.
Yeah good point. I was thinking more along the lines as Apple providing the terminals and Apple Pay taking off like that. It would have been far more successful in the US but now that I think of it, it would also have been a lot of trouble and high risk especially in Europe where NFC is already off the ground.
Which reminds me, I think the new iPads not accepting ?Pay is a huge mistake since there's a wide open door for iPads as POS systems. if Apple doesn't fill the void soon others will run through that open door(as seen by that former PayPal guy, dammit I can't remember his name and former PayPal position!!)
Yeah iBeacon is an awesome idea. It's still in development but its a more a "behind the scenes" deal since its not a consumer product that millions of people will be lined up to buy.
What financial incentives? Are the carriers now going to pay people to take a feature phone on plans that earn them less money?
Man is it hard to get some people to see a point here.
Forget the fact that it doesn't make sense for anyone to do this: my question is whether the low-end phone buyers would go for it? If so, then it shows that this is the reason why most Android phone users (i.e. the low-end market) are clueless about features like Google Wallet: because they simply don't care and money is the main thing they care about.
Interesting question then with no way to determine an answer? Fair enough.
2) I saw Wells Fargo ?Pay billboard today. I don't know what to think about that except they definitely want it to succeed.
That's the last thing I'd like to see. There are several wonderful aspects to their solution, and using the NFC standard is one of them.
1) I infer cheap v expensive when I see dumb v smart, so if one feels they will only use a cellphone for phone calls then there is no incentive to spend a lot more money on a device and plan.
2) I'm getting into this conversation late, so this may be off topic, but I expect that many more inexpensive phones running Android will start including NFC. I also expect Google to alter how Google Wallet works so that it mirrors ?Pay more, but I don't expect that to happen soon.
In any case, I'm glad. Increased adoption of Google Wallet can only help Apple Pay as well. And hurt adoption of the very customer unfriendly and insecure CurrentC.
Not the only game but in a different league.
Kinda like putting an NFL MVP against High School kids who are tripping over their shoe laces.
Of course there was a surge.
The Android idiots never knew about contactless payments, they went online and searched for "can I get ?pay on my Android phone" and found out they have something a bit like it. Now it has surged from 0 to a few which is a several hundred % increase.
Apple is doomed.
I think the reason that the Android version didn't take off is because of what we have known for ages. Android owners don't like buying/paying for anything. They don't have much money and the soup kitchen is free.
Because history has already proven that they won't, and that's my point. Consumers have already spoken, and have said loudly that they're not interested in feature phones.
Except that [@]chadbag[/@] wants a 'modern day design' which probably means a metal body, and he wants a good camera, etc, etc... Building such a phone would probably end up costing more than it does making a smartphone, so it being cheap goes out the window.
Because history has already proven that they won't, and that's my point. Consumers have already spoken, and have said loudly that they're not interested in feature phones.
But it only went that way after it became a choice between a $0 feature phone and a $0 low-end smart phone. Of course people are going to pick the best device they can get at the same price point.
What I'm talking about is something like: a feature phone with a $100 rebate on your first 3 months of cellular service vs a $0 low-end smart phone with no such rebate. Are people going for low-end smart phones (like the vast majority of Android phones being sold) willing to trade features for a rebate? My money is on yes.
That applies here because it then leads into the fact that most people who buy low-end phones don't really take the time to learn about the different features available (like Google Wallet).
Why would a company give a $100 rebate virtually getting rid of the benefit of subsidizing a phone? Not going to happen. Lets be realistic here: unless all the carriers are subsidizing 95% of the population will opt for smartphones.
What if a government agency tasked with preventing electronics waste from making it's way into landfills (as many feature phones did when they fell out of favour) subsidized it?
If you're referring to a cellular service provider, then they aren't the ones profiting when someone buys a higher end phone unless they also buy a higher end service plan. In fact, they have to pay a higher subsidy (and thus have to force you onto a more expensive plan to recoup their investment). So they could care less what phone you buy as long as you're tied to a service plan that brings them in more than they paid for the up-front subsidy.
OPPO N3
Ascend Mate 7
Keep moving the goalposts from "there's no one but Authentec", to "there's no one actually shipping them" to "there's no smartphones that use 'em" and you're bond to nail it eventually.
With the revived interest in mobile pay systems you can be pretty certain there's many more smartphones with touch ID sensors to come.
1) Are these available now? I thought the OPPO N3 wasn't suppose to come out until next month, and even then it's very limited in the countries and carriers it will appear, which means very limited supply.
2) Typing "What phones have non-swipe fingerprint security?" isn't useful. If you know of phones on the market that have fingerprint scanner as good or better than Touch ID then please post videos.
I expect fingerprint biometrics to become more common, but I'm pretty sure Touch ID is an apple trademark.
edit: Yep: https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/appletmlist.html
OPPO N3
Not shipping yet.
Why is the fingerprint sensor on the back of it?
It also just started shipping this month and it's not available in the US.
And keep supporting companies that reverse-engineer technology and figure out ways to work around patents. Apple may not always invent things themselves, but at least they play by the rules and either buy the company that did or license the technology from them.
The discussion wasn't about good or better or worse. Sog confidently claimed Authentec to be the only option, which it plainly is not. Even the existence of just the Ascend Mate, ignoring the OPPO for now, deals with his 'vaporware" assertion that no one else yet offers one on a smartphone.
I've not read anything about how good the others are, tho FPC apparently is secure and reliable enough for Mastercard to recommend them. (Did you ever see their video of the CC with an embedded fingerprint sensor? It's real, field-tested and in use) Apple Touch ID would of course be the gold standard that everyone will be compared to.
Also just because Apple owns a trademark doesn't preclude someone else from using a touch identification sensor of course. Thanks for checking the status of the trademark tho as I didn't know it it was ever awarded to Apple or not.
FPC stole Apple's IP? That's your claim?
Yeah, I'm sure it isn't anymore now that I've opened your eyes to the fact options beside Authentec exist. Why am I not surprised you're unhappy about learning something you didn't know when the day started.
It's not about promoting someone else, but should be about coming away with a better understanding of the facts than you began with.
EDIT:
Soli, here's that video I mentioned earlier
[VIDEO]