The burden of proof has nothing to do with a guarantee to receive every text message that is sent to her, all she has to prove is that Apple interfered with her Verizon contract.
1. Was it reasonable for Moore to believe she would get the vast majority of her text messages?
2. If this problem started with iOS 5 (2011) why did Apple wait until this week to put out a tool to deregister your phone?
3. Did Apple make the process unreasonable to get your text messages when switching to another OS?
The fault is on the user. If I rely on something to work, I test it myself. The user should have tested it when they changed phones. I think I have always tested e-mail, messaging, etc. to see if it works.
I wonder what's the technical limitation behind this problem. Surely, if User A has iMessage turned on, this has to be made known to the user B who tries to send a message to user A. If user A then simply sells his phone without turning off iMessage, the message can't be received and in that case it can be sent as an SMS?
This is exactly what happens on my phone when I don't have data, etc (mostly when roaming). Instead of an iMessage, an SMS is sent.
Is it perhaps that the sender B does not have the option to "send as SMS" when iMessages cannot be delivered?
Perhaps "send as SMS" should have been turned on by default... but then somebody would sue and say "hey you charged me for a message which was intended to be sent as an iMessage".
I really do hope the suit will fall through and I do not want to know what's inside Koh's head.
Somebody milks the system but really the price is paid by all of Apple's customers.
Add on services like AT&T Business Messaging provides for added functionality such as delivery confirmation but requires a messaging gateway and an up charge on the each device.
I work with tools that I've set to send SMS but as one of several options. One such tools sends an SMS, an email and an IM on the corporate chat. I wouldn't rely on SMS alone for mission critical.
Me neither. Which is why for years companies used BBM instead of SMS for enterprise mobile messaging.
companies used BBM instead of SMS for enterprise mobile messaging.
And still do. BB being in dire straits (not the band) is causing issues with many enterprises. I'm happy to see they ported it to other OSs. Perhaps the Apple\IBM partnerships will fastly change that landscape.
In this thread: Countless Apple defenders refusing to admit this was a *real* problem.
I've been using Apple products longer than most of you have been alive but even I admit this was a big issue, even if you won't. I have several friends who switched to Android and could not get texts for months. It was not just a "boo hoo" inconvenience, it actually affected their livelihood when they could not be contacted by customers. Apple knew about this problem for years before it implemented a solution. Their attitude was true b*llsh*t on this one and I am glad the judge allowed this to proceed, because they really did wrong here. I cannot fathom why so many of you are belittling what was a true, serious issue.
I'm calling you out: Nobodyy, Maestro64, SpamSandwich, jungmark, Suddenly Newton. You guys are irrational.
The fault is on the user. If I rely on something to work, I test it myself. The user should have tested it when they changed phones. I think I have always tested e-mail, messaging, etc. to see if it works.
To play devil's advocate, the plaintiffs could have tested text messaging and thought that everything was working. They would have still been able to receive normal text messages, it's just texts from their iPhone using friends that wouldn't arrive.
The problem was, as someone already pointed out, that even if you deregistered, there were times Apple didn't let go of the number. I saw it many times, and it happened to me as well. I turned off iMessage, and even went so far as calling Apple, just for them to tell me it'll be fixed. One day. Tell my wife it wasn't a big deal that I didn't get her texts, ever. Sure, she could call, but sometimes you just want to text.
What about the people that lost their phones and couldn't replace it with another iPhone?
It might not warrant a lawsuit, but it WAS a problem. To say otherwise is just being blind.
In this thread: Countless Apple defenders refusing to admit this was a *real* problem. I've been using Apple products longer than most of you have been alive but even I admit this was a big issue, even if you won't. I have several friends who switched to Android and could not get texts for months. It was not just a "boo hoo" inconvenience, it actually affected their livelihood when they could not be contacted by customers. Apple knew about this problem for years before it implemented a solution. Their attitude was true b*llsh*t on this one and I am glad the judge allowed this to proceed, because they really did wrong here. I cannot fathom why so many of you are belittling what was a true, serious issue.
Seriously? Countless? I think I'm post 52. I'm all-in on Apple but waiting to read what comes from discovery and presented as argument. Feels like Apple screwed the pooch a bit but it's just text messages.
In this thread: Countless Apple defenders refusing to admit this was a *real* problem.
I've been using Apple products longer than most of you have been alive but even I admit this was a big issue, even if you won't. I have several friends who switched to Android and could not get texts for months. It was not just a "boo hoo" inconvenience, it actually affected their livelihood when they could not be contacted by customers. Apple knew about this problem for years before it implemented a solution. Their attitude was true b*llsh*t on this one and I am glad the judge allowed this to proceed, because they really did wrong here. I cannot fathom why so many of you are belittling what was a true, serious issue.
I'm calling you out: Nobodyy, Maestro64, SpamSandwich, jungmark, Suddenly Newton. You guys are irrational.
What funny is Apple came out few months ago and admitted there were an iOS and server side bugs that caused the issue to persist for some even if they follow the procedure. I honestly don't have an issue with this lawsuit to proceed. Apple did mess up and for three years they did not care until this lawsuit earlier this year. Now we have a solution that should have been there when iMessage was released.
Are you guys kidding me? Part of my job relies on getting text messages and getting them timely. Can you imagine of Google started eating all of your emails cause you switched to Yahoo?
The people affected are no longer using the Apple product, therefore can no longer be bound by the TOS. This is not malfunctioning tech that just misdirected a few text messages. This is poor design that prevented many people from receiving any messages sent through Apple's own service.
What if people are sending you messages from iPads or iPod touch's?
You cut yourself off from them.
I think this is a cellular network issue as I have switched between iOS and other devices numerous times with no issues.
The phone network knows which device you are using, isn't it up to them to deliver it appropriately?
iMessage is damned convenient if you switch SIMs while travelling, as long as there's a data connection you continue to receive messages to your usual number.
I turned off iMessage, and even went so far as calling Apple, just for them to tell me it'll be fixed. One day. Tell my wife it wasn't a big deal that I didn't get her texts, ever. Sure, she could call, but sometimes you just want to text.
Bullshit, tell your wife to turn off iMessage on her iPhone and HER phone will send YOUR phone SMS.
Tell that to people who lost real money and real customers.
The nonexistent people who couldn't be proven to exist as there is nothing to show messages weren't received?
If these potential customers came into existence by using other methods to make contact then there is still a chance they will provide money making opportunities.
Not real familiar with the workings of iMessage, but as I understand it, the Apple server links it to the phone number of the person receiving the text message and not the iPhone. So why can't the person, that switched to an Android phone and forgot to disable iMessage from that phone number, just borrow an iPhone, but in the SIM card from the new Android phone and unlink the number? If all the Apple server need is the phone number to unlink it from iMessage. Or is that too simple and can only be done with the actual iPhone the number was on in the first place? Or maybe there's a compatibility issue with the SIMs.
Comments
Lmao
The burden of proof has nothing to do with a guarantee to receive every text message that is sent to her, all she has to prove is that Apple interfered with her Verizon contract.
1. Was it reasonable for Moore to believe she would get the vast majority of her text messages?
2. If this problem started with iOS 5 (2011) why did Apple wait until this week to put out a tool to deregister your phone?
3. Did Apple make the process unreasonable to get your text messages when switching to another OS?
4. Lucy Koh has this case.
Yeah sorry guys Apple is going to lose this case.
The fault is on the user. If I rely on something to work, I test it myself. The user should have tested it when they changed phones. I think I have always tested e-mail, messaging, etc. to see if it works.
This is exactly what happens on my phone when I don't have data, etc (mostly when roaming). Instead of an iMessage, an SMS is sent.
Is it perhaps that the sender B does not have the option to "send as SMS" when iMessages cannot be delivered?
Perhaps "send as SMS" should have been turned on by default... but then somebody would sue and say "hey you charged me for a message which was intended to be sent as an iMessage".
I really do hope the suit will fall through and I do not want to know what's inside Koh's head.
Somebody milks the system but really the price is paid by all of Apple's customers.
Handset to handset is best effort.
Add on services like AT&T Business Messaging provides for added functionality such as delivery confirmation but requires a messaging gateway and an up charge on the each device.
I work with tools that I've set to send SMS but as one of several options. One such tools sends an SMS, an email and an IM on the corporate chat. I wouldn't rely on SMS alone for mission critical.
Me neither. Which is why for years companies used BBM instead of SMS for enterprise mobile messaging.
Would everyone know if they weren't getting messages that this was the issue?
Can you rephrase that? Not sure what you mean. What is "the issue" you are referring to?
And still do. BB being in dire straits (not the band) is causing issues with many enterprises. I'm happy to see they ported it to other OSs. Perhaps the Apple\IBM partnerships will fastly change that landscape.
If dog's needed houses back then, they'da had Adam as company.
In this thread: Countless Apple defenders refusing to admit this was a *real* problem.
I've been using Apple products longer than most of you have been alive but even I admit this was a big issue, even if you won't. I have several friends who switched to Android and could not get texts for months. It was not just a "boo hoo" inconvenience, it actually affected their livelihood when they could not be contacted by customers. Apple knew about this problem for years before it implemented a solution. Their attitude was true b*llsh*t on this one and I am glad the judge allowed this to proceed, because they really did wrong here. I cannot fathom why so many of you are belittling what was a true, serious issue.
I'm calling you out: Nobodyy, Maestro64, SpamSandwich, jungmark, Suddenly Newton. You guys are irrational.
The fault is on the user. If I rely on something to work, I test it myself. The user should have tested it when they changed phones. I think I have always tested e-mail, messaging, etc. to see if it works.
To play devil's advocate, the plaintiffs could have tested text messaging and thought that everything was working. They would have still been able to receive normal text messages, it's just texts from their iPhone using friends that wouldn't arrive.
What about the people that lost their phones and couldn't replace it with another iPhone?
It might not warrant a lawsuit, but it WAS a problem. To say otherwise is just being blind.
Seriously? Countless? I think I'm post 52. I'm all-in on Apple but waiting to read what comes from discovery and presented as argument. Feels like Apple screwed the pooch a bit but it's just text messages.
What funny is Apple came out few months ago and admitted there were an iOS and server side bugs that caused the issue to persist for some even if they follow the procedure. I honestly don't have an issue with this lawsuit to proceed. Apple did mess up and for three years they did not care until this lawsuit earlier this year. Now we have a solution that should have been there when iMessage was released.
it's just text messages.
Tell that to people who lost real money and real customers.
What if people are sending you messages from iPads or iPod touch's?
You cut yourself off from them.
I think this is a cellular network issue as I have switched between iOS and other devices numerous times with no issues.
The phone network knows which device you are using, isn't it up to them to deliver it appropriately?
iMessage is damned convenient if you switch SIMs while travelling, as long as there's a data connection you continue to receive messages to your usual number.
Bullshit, tell your wife to turn off iMessage on her iPhone and HER phone will send YOUR phone SMS.
The nonexistent people who couldn't be proven to exist as there is nothing to show messages weren't received?
If these potential customers came into existence by using other methods to make contact then there is still a chance they will provide money making opportunities.
I don’t want to live in a world where business is done by text message.
Not real familiar with the workings of iMessage, but as I understand it, the Apple server links it to the phone number of the person receiving the text message and not the iPhone. So why can't the person, that switched to an Android phone and forgot to disable iMessage from that phone number, just borrow an iPhone, but in the SIM card from the new Android phone and unlink the number? If all the Apple server need is the phone number to unlink it from iMessage. Or is that too simple and can only be done with the actual iPhone the number was on in the first place? Or maybe there's a compatibility issue with the SIMs.