Those two are pretty objectivist when it comes to their own personal lives. Not paying taxes, etc.
That's complete nonsense. Rand paid those taxes she was legally required to pay.
And if you're of the opinion that she was "hypocritical" for collecting Social Security and Medicare payments (again, from a system she was forced to pay into) she wrote:
"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."
Okay this is going to come off bad, but I been involve in these attempts to diversify the geek community for over 20 yrs and nothing has changed. Why?
If minority in this county want more opportunities in the Geek industries other than low paying supporting roles they some how have to figure out how to change their genetic make up to be come more geek like. Yes better education will help, but unless someone have the desire and abilities to be a techno geek there is no amount of pushing and prodding and more education will do to convert minorities or non-geek type into a geek. These groups of individual do not go into engineering and such since they have no interest in it. It like making someone who can not heat the beat in a song into a musician (yeah we all seen Rebecca Black and auto-tune and she was called out as a fake) it will not happen, as it someone who can does not like engineering can not be made into an engineer.
Precisely.
But, of course, it's far too politically incorrect to suggest that some races are better at some things than others. It just depends on the race. It's fine to say that black people are better at basketball than white, but you're not supposed to say that white people are better than black at coding, even though the evidence overwhelmingly points that way.
But, of course, it's far too politically incorrect to suggest that some races are better at some things than others. It just depends on the race. It's fine to say that black people are better at basketball than white, but you're not supposed to say that white people are better than black at coding, even though the evidence overwhelmingly points that way.
From personal experience, I'm calling you out as wrong on the coding bit. It is simply incorrect. Also, the point is to treat people as individuals, not as collectivists do making everything about race or class or some other issue that minimizes the person.
I agree with everything you said, except this line is confusingly worded: "And try to understand that its racist to treat people equally."
Treating people equally is a personal choice, so I wouldn't say it is racist to do so. If the law dictates behavior in a way contrary to our constitutionally protected individual rights, then that's a problem.
Well, I was just refering to the viewpoint and argument of critical race theory, that it is racist to treat people equally and not see color.
Something that'll probably come as a surprise to all the well meaning folk, who thought that they were fighting racism by treating everyone the same.
(According to the Critical Race Theory, it's also racist to disagree with it, or try to refute it. A brilliant example of circular logic, that have kept ethnic studies professors, with an otherwise dubious track record in tenure for years...)
I'm glad I am not the only one that noticed the fringe KKK comments. Thankfully, Apple as a culture doesn't agree with their politics and viewpoint and its unlikely to change in the near future. I'm not for Jackson, but I am sure Tim has it under control, its not like people here know exactly what they are talking about, they just like to think they do.
Apple isn't a culture. And even if it was, a culture isn't a sentient creature that chooses what people are allowed to take part in it or not.
I have a feeling you fully realize this though. But you're too embarrassed to be deeply emotionally and personally invested in something, that at the end of the day just is a capitalist corporation. A corporation that, God forbid it, may even be serving and enriching people who disagree with you politically! Oh perish the thought! Oh the humanity! Think of the children! Etc. etc.
Okay this is going to come off bad, but I been involve in these attempts to diversify the geek community for over 20 yrs and nothing has changed. Why?
If minority in this county want more opportunities in the Geek industries other than low paying supporting roles they some how have to figure out how to change their genetic make up to be come more geek like. Yes better education will help, but unless someone have the desire and abilities to be a techno geek there is no amount of pushing and prodding and more education will do to convert minorities or non-geek type into a geek. These groups of individual do not go into engineering and such since they have no interest in it. It like making someone who can not heat the beat in a song into a musician (yeah we all seen Rebecca Black and auto-tune and she was called out as a fake) it will not happen, as it someone who can does not like engineering can not be made into an engineer.
Its not even about IQ or a particular skillset that may or may not be more common in some populations than in others.
(Personally I think there may be a cultural element.)
But nobody is being discriminated against here!
Yes there are more men than women in tech.
And yes there arent many Hispanics. Or African Americans.
Is that because of discrimination perchance, that white, Asian and South Asian males are represented in higher numbers than in their share of the population in general?
Gee, I don't know... If only there were a way to settle this, so we would know if anybody is being discriminated against...
Oh wait, there is! If you look at how many men and women enter comp.sci and other schools that teach you to code, how many graduate, and what the racial representation in those numbers is, then we'll know if the industry is somehow willfully keeping them out...
And guess what: if you look at those numbers, you'll see that minority and male representation in the tech workforce, is roughly comparable with their representation among university freshmen and university graduates.
That means that nobody is discriminating against women or minorities. But theyre either not interested in tech and a tech career, or theu don't have the skills.
Cause they don't seem to be applying for a degree, or graduating in particularly higher numbers than we see in the industry.
Darnit, I guess we have to start forcing people to get careers they're not interested in.
Oh, BTW: Tech isn't the only field where there is a gender gap... I wonder how we don't see people agitated over the low number of males in childcare or nursing and demanding action?
I agree with everything you said, except this line is confusingly worded: "And try to understand that its racist to treat people equally."
Treating people equally is a personal choice, so I wouldn't say it is racist to do so. If the law dictates behavior in a way contrary to our constitutionally protected individual rights, then that's a problem.
Well, I was just refering to the viewpoint and argument of critical race theory, that it is racist to treat people equally and not see color.
I'm glad I am not the only one that noticed the fringe KKK comments. Thankfully, Apple as a culture doesn't agree with their politics and viewpoint and its unlikely to change in the near future. I'm not for Jackson, but I am sure Tim has it under control, its not like people here know exactly what they are talking about, they just like to think they do.
Okay this is going to come off bad, but I been involve in these attempts to diversify the geek community for over 20 yrs and nothing has changed. Why?
If minority in this county want more opportunities in the Geek industries other than low paying supporting roles they some how have to figure out how to change their genetic make up to be come more geek like. Yes better education will help, but unless someone have the desire and abilities to be a techno geek there is no amount of pushing and prodding and more education will do to convert minorities or non-geek type into a geek. These groups of individual do not go into engineering and such since they have no interest in it. It like making someone who can not heat the beat in a song into a musician (yeah we all seen Rebecca Black and auto-tune and she was called out as a fake) it will not happen, as it someone who can does not like engineering can not be made into an engineer.
Ditto with gender.
To pretend that men and women are the same is just as dumb.
That's complete nonsense. Rand paid those taxes she was legally required to pay.
And if you're of the opinion that she was "hypocritical" for collecting Social Security and Medicare payments (again, from a system she was forced to pay into) she wrote:
"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."
I'm referring to the "I got mine, **** you." Teahadi-Randian philosophy of extreme selfishness.
I'm referring to the "I got mine, **** you." Teahadi-Randian philosophy of extreme selfishness.
I think you've set up a very flimsy strawman argument, however I'd like you to show me where in the law or the Constitution a person has no right to say, think or act on an "I've got mine..." basis. You cannot compel people in the way you want and it would behoove you to realize that not everyone believes in the same things you do.
To pretend that men and women are the same is just as dumb.
WOW THERE!!!!
That is totally sexist and mysogynistic! NOT COOL!!!
(In my younger and more naive days, I actually bought into the idea that men and women are basically the same, and the only reason you see a (non-physical) difference in gender is because society! And the patriarchy! I brought my daughter up with no TV and no McDonalds... Tried to raise her in the socially conscious gender neutral way: No dresses or girly stuff. Gave her trucks and tanks to play with, etc.
Unfortunately, when she was around 5 it was as if something clicked inside her, and she started obsessing over dresses and princesses. And started to pretend that the trucks were boys and girls and started playing with them as you would with Barbie dolls. I started to realize that just maybe, all that gender neutral crap was nonsense...)
But, of course, it's far too politically incorrect to suggest that some races are better at some things than others. It just depends on the race. It's fine to say that black people are better at basketball than white, but you're not supposed to say that white people are better than black at coding, even though the evidence overwhelmingly points that way.
Actually my point is more broad than race. Perfect example, my son has the skills and knowledge to be an engineer and after one semester in engineer and hanging with other engineering type he realize it was not for him and could not see himself as an engineer. I see this all the time, you can have the aptitude for engineering buy lack the desire or ability to do the actually work.
Stupid politician and educator think it just a matter of providing people with the opportunities and skills and it solves the problem. It is not, there is lots of genetics in doing certain types of jobs or careers.
I'll give you another example which does not take brains or education but just skills. I see people go to trade school to learn to be a brick layer or carpenter and they just suck at it they could not build a square wall if their life depended on it. I personally, build furniture as hobby and do pretty good at it with all the right tools, but I can not lay a straight brick wall no matter how hard I work at it. I just can not get the skills down right. I can remove your house, but you would never want me to build a brick wall on your house.
Not to belabor the point, but with the exception of the current world record holder, the last man of African decent to hold the world record in High Jump was in 1960. Eleven individuals, 21 records broken.
Apple isn't a culture. And even if it was, a culture isn't a sentient creature that chooses what people are allowed to take part in it or not.
I have a feeling you fully realize this though. But you're too embarrassed to be deeply emotionally and personally invested in something, that at the end of the day just is a capitalist corporation. A corporation that, God forbid it, may even be serving and enriching people who disagree with you politically! Oh perish the thought! Oh the humanity! Think of the children! Etc. etc.
I should have correctly stated that Apple's culture is lot more inclusive than the sentiments and statement on this forum.
As to emotional and personal investment, I've worked exclusively with Apple tech for over 20 years, but at home I have more PCs than I do Macs, running different versions of Windows and Linux for a variety of project and purposes. I also own a significant amount of Apple stock invested for the long haul. Its fair to say that I have significant emotional and personal involvement for a company that makes great products, which has allowed me to make a good living providing sys admin and engineering services for the public and private sector. However, you're wrong to think that I am somehow embarrassed by that or ashamed of Apple for being capitalist.
It actually seems that a lot of people here are upset that Apple is a lot more inclusive than they thought or what they think it should be.
I should have correctly stated that Apple's culture is lot more inclusive than the sentiments and statement on this forum.
As to emotional and personal investment, I've worked exclusively with Apple tech for over 20 years, but at home I have more PCs than I do Macs, running different versions of Windows and Linux for a variety of project and purposes. I also own a significant amount of Apple stock invested for the long haul. Its fair to say that I have significant emotional and personal involvement for a company that makes great products, which has allowed me to make a good living providing sys admin and engineering services for the public and private sector. However, you're wrong to think that I am somehow embarrassed by that or ashamed of Apple for being capitalist.
It actually seems that a lot of people here are upset that Apple is a lot more inclusive than they thought or what they think it should be.
I don't think anyone has a problem with "inclusiveness" ("inclusion"?), the problem is pandering to racists. Since so many here are large investors in Apple, they are also owners in the company and should be free to voice their concerns. Let's agree to disagree.
Comments
Tim Cook has lost all creditability.
-kpluck
That's complete nonsense. Rand paid those taxes she was legally required to pay.
And if you're of the opinion that she was "hypocritical" for collecting Social Security and Medicare payments (again, from a system she was forced to pay into) she wrote:
"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."
Precisely.
But, of course, it's far too politically incorrect to suggest that some races are better at some things than others. It just depends on the race. It's fine to say that black people are better at basketball than white, but you're not supposed to say that white people are better than black at coding, even though the evidence overwhelmingly points that way.
From personal experience, I'm calling you out as wrong on the coding bit. It is simply incorrect. Also, the point is to treat people as individuals, not as collectivists do making everything about race or class or some other issue that minimizes the person.
Well, I was just refering to the viewpoint and argument of critical race theory, that it is racist to treat people equally and not see color.
Something that'll probably come as a surprise to all the well meaning folk, who thought that they were fighting racism by treating everyone the same.
(According to the Critical Race Theory, it's also racist to disagree with it, or try to refute it. A brilliant example of circular logic, that have kept ethnic studies professors, with an otherwise dubious track record in tenure for years...)
Apple isn't a culture. And even if it was, a culture isn't a sentient creature that chooses what people are allowed to take part in it or not.
I have a feeling you fully realize this though. But you're too embarrassed to be deeply emotionally and personally invested in something, that at the end of the day just is a capitalist corporation. A corporation that, God forbid it, may even be serving and enriching people who disagree with you politically! Oh perish the thought! Oh the humanity! Think of the children! Etc. etc.
Its not even about IQ or a particular skillset that may or may not be more common in some populations than in others.
(Personally I think there may be a cultural element.)
But nobody is being discriminated against here!
Yes there are more men than women in tech.
And yes there arent many Hispanics. Or African Americans.
Is that because of discrimination perchance, that white, Asian and South Asian males are represented in higher numbers than in their share of the population in general?
Gee, I don't know... If only there were a way to settle this, so we would know if anybody is being discriminated against...
Oh wait, there is! If you look at how many men and women enter comp.sci and other schools that teach you to code, how many graduate, and what the racial representation in those numbers is, then we'll know if the industry is somehow willfully keeping them out...
And guess what: if you look at those numbers, you'll see that minority and male representation in the tech workforce, is roughly comparable with their representation among university freshmen and university graduates.
That means that nobody is discriminating against women or minorities. But theyre either not interested in tech and a tech career, or theu don't have the skills.
Cause they don't seem to be applying for a degree, or graduating in particularly higher numbers than we see in the industry.
Darnit, I guess we have to start forcing people to get careers they're not interested in.
Oh, BTW: Tech isn't the only field where there is a gender gap... I wonder how we don't see people agitated over the low number of males in childcare or nursing and demanding action?
Ditto with gender.
To pretend that men and women are the same is just as dumb.
That's complete nonsense. Rand paid those taxes she was legally required to pay.
And if you're of the opinion that she was "hypocritical" for collecting Social Security and Medicare payments (again, from a system she was forced to pay into) she wrote:
"It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration."
I'm referring to the "I got mine, **** you." Teahadi-Randian philosophy of extreme selfishness.
I think you've set up a very flimsy strawman argument, however I'd like you to show me where in the law or the Constitution a person has no right to say, think or act on an "I've got mine..." basis. You cannot compel people in the way you want and it would behoove you to realize that not everyone believes in the same things you do.
WOW THERE!!!!
That is totally sexist and mysogynistic! NOT COOL!!!
(In my younger and more naive days, I actually bought into the idea that men and women are basically the same, and the only reason you see a (non-physical) difference in gender is because society! And the patriarchy! I brought my daughter up with no TV and no McDonalds... Tried to raise her in the socially conscious gender neutral way: No dresses or girly stuff. Gave her trucks and tanks to play with, etc.
Unfortunately, when she was around 5 it was as if something clicked inside her, and she started obsessing over dresses and princesses. And started to pretend that the trucks were boys and girls and started playing with them as you would with Barbie dolls. I started to realize that just maybe, all that gender neutral crap was nonsense...)
Precisely.
But, of course, it's far too politically incorrect to suggest that some races are better at some things than others. It just depends on the race. It's fine to say that black people are better at basketball than white, but you're not supposed to say that white people are better than black at coding, even though the evidence overwhelmingly points that way.
Actually my point is more broad than race. Perfect example, my son has the skills and knowledge to be an engineer and after one semester in engineer and hanging with other engineering type he realize it was not for him and could not see himself as an engineer. I see this all the time, you can have the aptitude for engineering buy lack the desire or ability to do the actually work.
Stupid politician and educator think it just a matter of providing people with the opportunities and skills and it solves the problem. It is not, there is lots of genetics in doing certain types of jobs or careers.
I'll give you another example which does not take brains or education but just skills. I see people go to trade school to learn to be a brick layer or carpenter and they just suck at it they could not build a square wall if their life depended on it. I personally, build furniture as hobby and do pretty good at it with all the right tools, but I can not lay a straight brick wall no matter how hard I work at it. I just can not get the skills down right. I can remove your house, but you would never want me to build a brick wall on your house.
And yes White men can not jump...
Ahh, nothing brings out the flying spittle and free-form loathing more than the good Reverend Jackson.
If Cook meets with Justin Bieber next, that will pretty much break the Internets.
Anyone who doubts the agenda of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need only do a simple search: Duke University Lacrosse
Remember that one?
Anyone who doubts the agenda of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need only do a simple search: Duke University Lacrosse
Remember that one?
Forgot about that. There have been so many.
And yes White men can not jump...
Sure they can!
Not to belabor the point, but with the exception of the current world record holder, the last man of African decent to hold the world record in High Jump was in 1960. Eleven individuals, 21 records broken.
You are right, I was just bored...
Apple isn't a culture. And even if it was, a culture isn't a sentient creature that chooses what people are allowed to take part in it or not.
I have a feeling you fully realize this though. But you're too embarrassed to be deeply emotionally and personally invested in something, that at the end of the day just is a capitalist corporation. A corporation that, God forbid it, may even be serving and enriching people who disagree with you politically! Oh perish the thought! Oh the humanity! Think of the children! Etc. etc.
I should have correctly stated that Apple's culture is lot more inclusive than the sentiments and statement on this forum.
As to emotional and personal investment, I've worked exclusively with Apple tech for over 20 years, but at home I have more PCs than I do Macs, running different versions of Windows and Linux for a variety of project and purposes. I also own a significant amount of Apple stock invested for the long haul. Its fair to say that I have significant emotional and personal involvement for a company that makes great products, which has allowed me to make a good living providing sys admin and engineering services for the public and private sector. However, you're wrong to think that I am somehow embarrassed by that or ashamed of Apple for being capitalist.
It actually seems that a lot of people here are upset that Apple is a lot more inclusive than they thought or what they think it should be.
I should have correctly stated that Apple's culture is lot more inclusive than the sentiments and statement on this forum.
As to emotional and personal investment, I've worked exclusively with Apple tech for over 20 years, but at home I have more PCs than I do Macs, running different versions of Windows and Linux for a variety of project and purposes. I also own a significant amount of Apple stock invested for the long haul. Its fair to say that I have significant emotional and personal involvement for a company that makes great products, which has allowed me to make a good living providing sys admin and engineering services for the public and private sector. However, you're wrong to think that I am somehow embarrassed by that or ashamed of Apple for being capitalist.
It actually seems that a lot of people here are upset that Apple is a lot more inclusive than they thought or what they think it should be.
I don't think anyone has a problem with "inclusiveness" ("inclusion"?), the problem is pandering to racists. Since so many here are large investors in Apple, they are also owners in the company and should be free to voice their concerns. Let's agree to disagree.