US government sanctions North Korea for Sony hack as 'The Interview' reigns atop iTunes charts

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  • Reply 101 of 138
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Not sure if you should be accusing others of 'ignorance'. (NK's GDP is 10x that of Sony's net income).



    You could make your larger point without (ignorantly) dissing an entire thread.



    GDP is not the same as "net income." A closer correlation would be gross income. You have proved my point, actually. But here is a reference. I doubt that mere facts will persuade you, but others might find it interesting.

     

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/19/sony-really-is-larger-than-the-economy-of-north-korea/

  • Reply 102 of 138
    cjcampbell wrote: »

    GDP is not the same as "net income." A closer correlation would be gross income. You have proved my point, actually. But here is a reference. I doubt that mere facts will persuade you, but others might find it interesting.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/19/sony-really-is-larger-than-the-economy-of-north-korea/

    Hate to expose your ignorance further, but it's neither. Actually, it's 'value added' that should be measured to compare. It's an impossible number to find. You said 'income' without specifying what you meant, so I helped out there. (As an aside, there is a net income definition if GDP as well, but that would add the wages and salaries paid to employees).

    Incidentally, until 2013, Sony was making losses for a number of years. Their 140,000 employees were destroying value for well over a decade. You conveniently ignored that.

    The Forbes article is totally silly. He just makes up numbers. Moreover, he compares NK's PPP GDP to Sony's made up non-PPP wage number.

    You really shouldn't believe everything you read.
  • Reply 103 of 138
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    cjcampbell wrote: »

    GDP is not the same as "net income." A closer correlation would be gross income. You have proved my point, actually. But here is a reference. I doubt that mere facts will persuade you, but others might find it interesting.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/12/19/sony-really-is-larger-than-the-economy-of-north-korea/

    Hate to expose your ignorance further, but it's neither. Actually, it's 'value added' that should be measured to compare. It's an impossible number to find. You said 'income' without specifying what you meant, so I helped out there. (As an aside, there is a net income definition if GDP as well, but that would add the wages and salaries paid to employees).

    Incidentally, until 2013, Sony was making losses for a number of years. Their 140,000 employees were destroying value for well over a decade. You conveniently ignored that.

    The Forbes article is totally silly. He just makes up numbers. Moreover, he compares NK's PPP GDP to Sony's made up non-PPP wage number.

    You really shouldn't believe everything you read.

    Agreed - the comparison is clearly flawed. Rather obviously, if one is going to include the wages paid to employees by the company to derive a psuedo-GDP, then one must include wages paid to all workers in the country GDP for a fair comparison of "economic size".
  • Reply 104 of 138
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post





    Agreed - the comparison is clearly flawed. Rather obviously, if one is going to include the wages paid to employees by the company to derive a psuedo-GDP, then one must include wages paid to all workers in the country GDP for a fair comparison of "economic size".



    Total wages paid to all workers is included in a country's GDP. But his point is taken. I certainly won't believe anything you write.

     

    http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/199.asp

  • Reply 105 of 138
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Hate to expose your ignorance further, but it's neither. Actually, it's 'value added' that should be measured to compare. It's an impossible number to find. You said 'income' without specifying what you meant, so I helped out there. (As an aside, there is a net income definition if GDP as well, but that would add the wages and salaries paid to employees).



    Incidentally, until 2013, Sony was making losses for a number of years. Their 140,000 employees were destroying value for well over a decade. You conveniently ignored that.



    The Forbes article is totally silly. He just makes up numbers. Moreover, he compares NK's PPP GDP to Sony's made up non-PPP wage number.



    You really shouldn't believe everything you read.



    Again, 'losses' are representative of net income rather than total economic activity. Using your measure, both the United States and North Korea have smaller economies than any profitable corporation since they both have expanding debt.

  • Reply 106 of 138
    cjcampbell wrote: »
    Again, 'losses' are representative of net income rather than total economic activity. Using your measure, both the United States and North Korea have smaller economies than any profitable corporation since they both have expanding debt.

    Um. You're rambling at this point, and don't even realize it. Debt has NOTHING necessarily to do with losses or profits. Don't confuse a level variable with a flow variable.

    If you don't get it, stop. Of course, you're welcome to ramble further, but at least stop accusing others of being ignorant (especially when you're close to being Exhibit A at this point).
  • Reply 107 of 138
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

     

     

    I think there is a big misconception about North Korea. They do have the skills to carry out an attack like this. North Korea has thousands of hackers that have been trained in China. I'm sure this hack originated out of China, but was done by North Korean nationals. The North Koreans have already hacked financial systems in South Korea. They've shut down the financial systems there numerous times. I have no doubt in my mind the Sony hack was done by North Korea. 




    The free world is full of liars like you.  You don't have evidence of what you said.  You probably heard this from anti-China propagandists somewhere.  

  • Reply 108 of 138
    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

    The free world is full of liars like you.



    Where’s he wrong?

  • Reply 109 of 138
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cjcampbell View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post





    Agreed - the comparison is clearly flawed. Rather obviously, if one is going to include the wages paid to employees by the company to derive a psuedo-GDP, then one must include wages paid to all workers in the country GDP for a fair comparison of "economic size".



    Total wages paid to all workers is included in a country's GDP. But his point is taken. I certainly won't believe anything you write.

     

    http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/199.asp




    But his numbers seem well off for income-derived GDP  - even North Korea's estimated PPP GDP is around $40M, not $12M.

     

    And I'm confused by your comment. You disbelieve my opinion that the comparison is flawed, or my observation on using income GDP for that comparison?

  • Reply 110 of 138
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     
    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

    The free world is full of liars like you.



    Where’s he wrong?




    Of course he never claimed that @Boltsfan17 was wrong - just that he doesn't have the evidence.  

  • Reply 111 of 138
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stoutie View Post



    This is sad since it's highly unlikely that NK even did the hack. The FBI used very old code that's been out in the public for some time now to determine that NK was behind it, and numerous experts have determined that NK did not hack Sony. My gut tells me the FBI blew this one and is now trying to keep from looking like idiots. They discounted a well-known security company's conclusions before they even saw the data behind it. I like Obama, but I think he missed it on this one and caved to public pressure. Unfortunate. There are lots of good reasons to hammer NK. This probably isn't one of them, and if it turns out they weren't behind the Sony hack it makes us look like morons.



    There is a fundamental problem of US-led democracy.  The government is not perfect.  I can make mistakes.  Any reasonable adults knows this.  If the victims are in US they can either go to the streets protesting or file law suits against the government.  Many local governments have paid dearly for their mistakes.

     

    OTOH, when the wrongs done by the US government is a foreign entity especially one being declared evil and all kinds of bad words there is no viable means the US government will have to pay for its mistake.  And the culprits (government employees) are safely protected.  The examples are numerous.  The most famous one is the second Iraq war.  Despite being proven multiple times the people are that committed the lies are still free.  Of course the self righteous western civilization people will argue that since Saddam Hussein is a dictator then according to the matching of the Bible the evil people can be killed even through lies.  But I can tell you this is the origin of the hatred of the terrorists.  Because they see so many wrongs being inflicted upon them.  The self righteous western civilization people actually know this hatred.  They don't care.  Because they like wars.  They think US is so powerful.  US will win win the war eventually.  In the meantime they got paid handsomely through our astronomically spending on the military and home land security.  

  • Reply 112 of 138
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     



    Where’s he wrong?




    He said thousands of North Korean hackers were trained in China.  He said so definitely to make it sounds like facts.  I challenge any AI reader here to show me a credible evidence.  

     

    I saw many such stupid lies in the Iraq war.  When UN inspectors failed to find any WMD in multiple searches. Some one said Saddam hide them in one of his palace. 

  • Reply 113 of 138
    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

    Of course he never claimed that @Boltsfan17 was wrong - just that he doesn't have the evidence.  

     

    He did call him a liar, which would inherently mean wrong statements.

     

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

    He said thousands of North Korean hackers were trained in China. I challenge any AI reader here to show me a credible evidence.  

     

    Oh, okay; it’s just a matter of a lack of evidence, then, not that you’re refuting the possibility.

  • Reply 114 of 138
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,294member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    Unless someone from the FBI can reasonably counter what the experts are saying, as well as tell us why the mounting evidence on links between GoP and the Lizard Squad doesn't suggest otherwise, it'll be another case similar to -- or at least, a lot of people will believe it to be similar to -- "trust us, we know Saddam was hiding WMD."

     

    The fact that you have a family member in the FBI who said "trust me" is far from proof. It is also far from a source of comfort: in the absence of any official policy to be more forthcoming (s)he should more appropriately have said "no comment" around your family dinner table.




    There is hardly any evidence that suggests the hack was done by someone other than North Korea. The so called experts don't have any hard evidence to prove it wasn't North Korea. Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was I discussed the hack with a family member, never said they were my source. At the end of the day, it all comes down to who you chose to believe, the FBI or those so called experts. 

  • Reply 115 of 138
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     



    The free world is full of liars like you.  You don't have evidence of what you said.  You probably heard this from anti-China propagandists somewhere.  




    What did I lie about? You must be pretty naive if you think North Korea doesn't have hackers or help from China. 

  • Reply 116 of 138
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    He did call him a liar, which would inherently mean wrong statements.

     

     

    Oh, okay; it’s just a matter of a lack of evidence, then, not that you’re refuting the possibility.




    Whether a person lies is very easy to see for knowledgeable person.  Unfortunately under the fake freedom of speech, many people are regaining from directly confronting the liars.  

     

    A liar will habitually distorting facts.  He will insert a distorted word into a fact.  NK of course have sent thousands of people to China to learn high tech.  But to present the fact to sounds like they are trained purely for hacking is a lie.  

  • Reply 117 of 138
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

     



    What did I lie about? You must be pretty naive if you think North Korea doesn't have hackers or help from China. 




    You said "North Korea has thousands of hackers that have been trained in China."  Do you mean China trained them how to hack?

  • Reply 118 of 138
    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

    Unfortunately under the fake freedom of speech, many people are regaining from directly confronting the liars.  

     

    Did you mean ‘reneging’?

     

    Here’s the thing: there’s no “falseness” to freedom of speech. It means actual freedom of actual speech, whatever that entails. A person has the right to any ludicrous belief, borne of whatever mental illnesses are possible, as well as to express that belief. What a person does NOT have is the right to force others to 1. also believe it 2. so much as listen to it 3. even provide a platform for it to be heard.

     
    NK of course have sent thousands of people to China to learn high tech.  But to present the fact to sounds like they are trained purely for hacking is a lie.

     

    Now here you present a statement of your own with an equal amount of legitimacy as his (being, as it is, sourceless). Additionally, you’ve changed his statement. North Korea has hackers, trained in and operating from China. Sure. We know this already. A case could certainly be made that people were sent to China for the sole purpose of learning system infiltration. To suggest otherwise is silly. He also did not say that there are no people sent to China for reasons other than hacking or that the only North Koreans sent to China were sent for the sake of hacking, just that there are individuals who are sent solely for it.

  • Reply 119 of 138
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,294member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

     



    You said "North Korea has thousands of hackers that have been trained in China."  Do you mean China trained them how to hack?


    Yes. 

     

  • Reply 120 of 138
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

     

    Yes. 

     




    This is ludicrous.  I do not know there is a class of learning how to hack.  If there is such a class, how come I don't see such class in silicon valley which invented the high tech?

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