Samsung's mobile profits plunge 64.2% after Apple's iPhone 6 devastates premium Galaxy sales

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  • Reply 61 of 145
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,799member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    Just a point of clarification... Monopolies existed in the US thanks to the government, not due to a lack of governance. Oil company, telephone and cable monopolies were not created by free market competition, they were all created by laws that protected them from competitors. Check your history. Even AT&T is very blunt about this fact on their own web sites history page.



    Just a point of clarification...I was trying to simply give him a reference point. That is the closest the U.S. came to a chaebol. 

  • Reply 62 of 145
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tmay View Post

     

    Android OEM's are now circling the drain, lack of differentiation having sucked the profits out from under them. Will it be an extinction level event?

     

    Probably not, or yet anyway, but Xiaomi has certainly set a profit floor so low as to give the OEM's little to work with. The question I have is what will the Android world look like a year or two years down the road without profitable OEM's?

     

    Looks like chaos to me...


     

    Android has the same issues as Windows PC's do.  Before long they all start looking the same.   It's a race to the bottom in profits.  Very little from any of them to make themselves stand out.  Before long company's start dropping like flies.  Go out of business, get bought out by another company or start making other products.   You can only go so long making slim to none in profits.   You go to a store now, they're all i3 or i5 intel CPU's and all look similar with similar specs.  Choice is gone.  There's only a few to even pick from.   You want any more choices you have to get a PC from over the Internet or build your own which is what I did.

     

    How do you stand out these days with Android.  6" screen is MAX you can really go with for a phone and even that is a little to large even for those that like huge phones.  The PPI is already overkill by a mile.  Camera Mega Pixels are more then good enough for a Smart phone.  It's at a point of moving to a DSLR for real pro pictures, just for the fact of having a much larger Lens to let more light in, something that's completely impractical for a Smart phone.  That leaves minor CPU/GPU bumps, which all the High end Android phones are using pretty much the same chips. 

     

    The only thing currently saving Samsung and others from the Cheap Chinese Android phones is because they're stuck in China for the most part.  If they try to sell outside of  China, they'll get their butts sued by just about everyone.  They're also running Forked versions of Android which people out of China aren't going to want.  They'll want to use Google's services.  That means running a Non-Forked version of Android, but if they go that route they can't continue to sell FORKED versions of Android.  That's one of Google's Rules.  Company's have tried that in the past and Google put a stop to it.   If you live in China, who in their right mind would buy a Samsung phone which costs more over a cheap China phone?    

     

    There's no money to be made with Android.  Switching to Windows just puts you into the same hole.  The only one who wins is Google.  When you're making slim to none in profits selling your Android phone and you can't make anything on the back end, after the sale with a App Store like Apple, what do you do?  Samsung has tried to offer up their own App store and other features, but it's all failed.  No one wants to use it over Google's services, not that I blame a Android user.  If Samsung can't do it, who can?   I don't think trying to go the Amazon route using a Forked version of Android and having your own store is going to work.  While Amazon can kind of get away with it, though even their phone has failed, no one else would even come close to that.  Why when you can just get a real Android/Google supported phone?

     

    Samsung would be better off jumping in with TIZEN.   It would be a big hit in sales.  But would give them full control and not rely on Google.  Give them control of their own App store.  At least they have other sources of income.  Sooner is better then later.  Google is gaining more control over Android and forcing company's to make Google's services more front and center.   Android really has a lot of issues.  It's a complete mess for so many reasons.    If you're only way at this point to stand out is your Skin like TouchWiz which everyone says they hate even though they keep buying Samsung phones, where do you go from here?

  • Reply 63 of 145

    If there was ever a perfect time for Apple to work on standardization between platforms and stability, this is it.  When you are ahead it's time to consolidate the gains is one nearly perfect set of systems.  Meanwhile you can be working on the next set of innovations.

  • Reply 64 of 145
    In the US, obviously the increase in iphone sizes from Jobs' perfect size finally brought back some of the Apple wayward but you also have to look at Samsung's android competitors such as LG and Microsoft and even Microsoft. For example, LG sold a record 59 million smartphones, that takes directly from Samsung's share. There is hope for Samsung with a new streamlined software like its android competitors instead of pushing touchwiz, which is perceived to be laggy. They are basically copying Apple by finally listening to what consumers want. Swallowing the bitter pill is better than losing your entire lunch eh?
  • Reply 65 of 145

    In the US, obviously the increase in iphone sizes from Jobs' perfect size finally brought back some of the Apple wayward but you also have to look at Samsung's android competitors such as LG and Microsoft and even Microsoft. For example, LG sold a record 59 million smartphones, that takes directly from Samsung's share. There is hope for Samsung with a new streamlined software like its android competitors instead of pushing touchwiz, which is perceived to be laggy.  They are basically copying Apple by finally listening to what consumers want. Swallowing the bitter pill is better than losing your entire lunch eh?

  • Reply 66 of 145
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    macvicta wrote: »
    Imagine how bad it would be for Scamsung if Apple wasn't feeding their chip business billions of dollars a year.

    Exactly, that's why I really one day soon Apple can cease any contact wits Scamsung fabrication plants.
  • Reply 67 of 145
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    jbdragon wrote: »
    Android has the same issues as Windows PC's do.  Before long they all start looking the same.   It's a race to the bottom in profits.  Very little from any of them to make themselves stand out.  Before long company's start dropping like flies.  Go out of business, get bought out by another company or start making other products.   You can only go so long making slim to none in profits.   You go to a store now, they're all i3 or i5 intel CPU's and all look similar with similar specs.  Choice is gone.  There's only a few to even pick from.   You want any more choices you have to get a PC from over the Internet or build your own which is what I did.

    How do you stand out these days with Android.  6" screen is MAX you can really go with for a phone and even that is a little to large even for those that like huge phones.  The PPI is already overkill by a mile.  Camera Mega Pixels are more then good enough for a Smart phone.  It's at a point of moving to a DSLR for real pro pictures, just for the fact of having a much larger Lens to let more light in, something that's completely impractical for a Smart phone.  That leaves minor CPU/GPU bumps, which all the High end Android phones are using pretty much the same chips. 

    The only thing currently saving Samsung and others from the Cheap Chinese Android phones is because they're stuck in China for the most part.  If they try to sell outside of  China, they'll get their butts sued by just about everyone.  They're also running Forked versions of Android which people out of China aren't going to want.  They'll want to use Google's services.  That means running a Non-Forked version of Android, but if they go that route they can't continue to sell FORKED versions of Android.  That's one of Google's Rules.  Company's have tried that in the past and Google put a stop to it.   If you live in China, who in their right mind would buy a Samsung phone which costs more over a cheap China phone?    

    There's no money to be made with Android.  Switching to Windows just puts you into the same hole.  The only one who wins is Google.  When you're making slim to none in profits selling your Android phone and you can't make anything on the back end, after the sale with a App Store like Apple, what do you do?  Samsung has tried to offer up their own App store and other features, but it's all failed.  No one wants to use it over Google's services, not that I blame a Android user.  If Samsung can't do it, who can?   I don't think trying to go the Amazon route using a Forked version of Android and having your own store is going to work.  While Amazon can kind of get away with it, though even their phone has failed, no one else would even come close to that.  Why when you can just get a real Android/Google supported phone?

    Samsung would be better off jumping in with TIZEN.   It would be a big hit in sales.  But would give them full control and not rely on Google.  Give them control of their own App store.  At least they have other sources of income.  Sooner is better then later.  Google is gaining more control over Android and forcing company's to make Google's services more front and center.   Android really has a lot of issues.  It's a complete mess for so many reasons.    If you're only way at this point to stand out is your Skin like TouchWiz which everyone says they hate even though they keep buying Samsung phones, where do you go from here?

    Does TEZEN have an eco system? Maps, Search, docs, photo sharing a cloud and so on?
  • Reply 68 of 145
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    gwmac wrote: »
    ]

    You are confusing Chaebol with a Korean and indeed most of Asian cultural norm of saving face and not showing up your boss. Two different things entirely.

    Think of a Chaebol like the old Standard Oil and other big monopolies the U.S. used to have before they were broken up by Teddy Roosevelt in 1911. They are massive companies with many divisions and exert tremendous political influence. In Japan they are called Keiretsu and before that Zaibatsu. The Chaebol was a result of the Japanese occupation of Korea in fact. 

    It is a large grouping of companies working as one and they even have their own banks, schools, even cities. Toyota, Japan for example is basically a city owned by the Toyota company. 

    Well not really confusing the two since I didn't mention 'face'. I was more interested in how such a structured organisation actually works given the apparent conflict between 'doing your very best' for a company while making sure you don't outshine your immediate boss - something more likely to get you promoted in a traditional company.
    To be honest, I don't see many similarities with US monopolies or Japanese keiretsus which are essentially funded by banks, something expressly forbidden for chaebols. Thanks anyway.
  • Reply 69 of 145
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    Does TEZEN have an eco system? Maps, Search, docs, photo sharing a cloud and so on?

    Nope, which makes that a ridiculous suggestion.
  • Reply 70 of 145
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frac View Post





    Well not really confusing the two since I didn't mention 'face'. I was more interested in how such a structured organisation actually works given the apparent conflict between 'doing your very best' for a company while making sure you don't outshine your immediate boss - something more likely to get you promoted in a traditional company.

    To be honest, I don't see many similarities with US monopolies or Japanese keiretsus which are essentially funded by banks, something expressly forbidden for chaebols. Thanks anyway.



    You might not have mentioned it but you described it. I lived in Japan and Korea for over 13 years so I think I know what I am talking about. You described saving face which means don't show up your boss. 

     

    Korean Chaebol are much smaller and more family controlled. Mitsubishi is around 20 times larger than Samsung for example. Zaibatsu used to be like that with families but U.S. control of Japan forced them to dissolve and break apart. Chaebol are more like Zaibasu.

     

    I didn't say anything about U.S. monopolies in 2015 I said ones before 1911. Big difference. Due to differences in laws, regulations, banking, and even culture nothing will be exactly the same when comparing countries. I was just trying to give you a good point of reference  since you don't seem to know much about the subject. 

     

    You can lead a horse to water...you know the rest. 

     

    http://ti.uni-due.de/ti/de/education/teaching/ss09/managecultureEastAsia/studentischeArbeiten/Comparative large Japanese and Korean business groups.24.04.pdf

  • Reply 71 of 145
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    How are the Samsung / Android fan sites interpreting the same information? I don't want to get my Mac dirty but can you paraphrase for me?



    Why would you assume that I know or care what they think?

  • Reply 72 of 145
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,941member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Apple now has about 95% of smartphone profits.
    Wow indeed! Samsung's swift decent is both breathtaking and gratifying to all who saw them for what they were--unscrupulous knock-off artists.
    However, next time you* want to complain about how analysts and the market undervalue AAPL, you have to remember this.

    Other than Apple, how have the last 5 Titans of the phone industry fare over the long haul? Ericsson, Motorola, Nokia, Blackberry(RIM) and now Samsung? They all had stunningly swift declines. Something about the velocity of cell phone upgrade cycles and number portability seem to leave even the biggest, most entrenched companies vulnerable.

    Now, I am long on AAPL. I believe that they have a solid ecosystem and customer loyalty unlike any other tech company that would protect them from such a precipitous drop off in sales. But you have to see how many investors will see what is happening to Samsung and not think "Well, Apple is a sure thing now" but instead will think "See--any company that depends primarily on cell phone profits is a dangerous buy in the long term."

    *This is a general "you" as this post is not really directed AT sog...
  • Reply 73 of 145
    How are the Samsung / Android fan sites interpreting the same information? I don't want to get my Mac dirty but can you paraphrase for me?

    See the other posts in this thread. It should give you a flavor.
  • Reply 74 of 145
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    sky king wrote: »
    If there was ever a perfect time for Apple to work on standardization between platforms and stability, this is it.  When you are ahead it's time to consolidate the gains is one nearly perfect set of systems.  Meanwhile you can be working on the next set of innovations.

    Agreed, and ironically I think the source of their recent problems with stability among the platforms is a direct result of the fact that they're working on it. Never have they tried to connect so many devices and platforms in so many ways for so many users with so much data of so many different types. It is no wonder to me that Bluetooth interferes with WiFi or iCloud messes with your purchased vs. homemade recordings, or whatever. It's a mare's nest they're dealing with, and new territory for any company. I'm thinking the yearly update business is an accidental result of having to push continuity and connectivity over a threshold, and it isn't a permanent condition.

    The Arment and Gruber crowd don't seem to share this view, or I haven't seen it emphasized.
  • Reply 75 of 145
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,040member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jared Porter View Post

     

    I bet Samsung (and other Android players) will have difficulty matching Apple's fingerprint ID technology since Apple wisely purchased AuthenTec which probably has all of the best patents tied up.  They may also be having trouble converting to 64-bit technology as well.  This won't help Samsung and other Android vendors in their need to try to catch up with Apple Pay when "mandated" pin and chip (and NFC) readers need to be installed in the US by this coming September.  What Apple really needs now is some kind of push to get many more retailers (hello Chipolte!) and more online merchants to sign up!


    Also, the Buggy SnapDragon 810 really fcked Samsung flagship S6 this year badly since their 64-bit Exynos chip sucks ball.

  • Reply 76 of 145
    Could we please start referring to Samsung as "the beleaguered company"?
  • Reply 77 of 145
    tiger2 wrote: »
    I hope Samsung, Microsoft, et al, all keep innovating and making great products. This will force Apple to do the same. And, perhaps lower their prices.

    Complete fantasy, disconnected from all reality. Apple has been around for nearly 40 years; they don't play "race to the bottom" or "think same."
  • Reply 78 of 145
    sog35 wrote: »
    Well there goes the last profitable Android smartphone maker.

    Samsung is still making profit... just not as much as they used to. And added to the list of profitable Android vendors is LG, Huawei and Xiaomi. There is now a grand total of four (4) Android vendors making money.

    The problem is... there are over 60 Android smartphone vendors.

    How is this sustainable?

    Is there any other market where there are 60 players but only 4 are profitable? That ratio seems very unbalanced.
  • Reply 79 of 145
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Thermonuclear.

  • Reply 80 of 145
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