The vendor does need to approve the transaction with the bank to verify there's enough funds to cover the purchase.
That usually happens with an intermediary. Regardless, none of that requires an Internet connection or free WiFi for passengers, which is why a plane can offer no WiFi and still allow ?Pay payments to be made during a flight.
That usually happens with an intermediary. Regardless, none of that requires an Internet connection or free WiFi for passengers, which is why a plane can offer no WiFi and still allow ?Pay payments to be made during a flight.
I wasn't referring to the passengers getting Internet, I was opposing the viewpoint that Apple Pay doesn’t need an Internet connection ever.
Wrong. You can get receipt later when your iDevice's reconnected to the network. I bought soda from vending machine using Apple Pay with no cell and network connection multiple times from my company break rooms. No problem at all.
But you still need cell signal to use Google wallet.
What for? What does the ability to make phone calls without an Internet connection do to make a Google Wallet transaction work when you have PIN expiration set to Never?
Wrong. You can get receipt later when your iDevice's reconnected to the network. I bought soda from vending machine using Apple Pay with no cell and network connection multiple times from my company break rooms. No problem at all.
Ok then how does the POS device get approval for the purchase? Is Apple Pay just the connection between the iDevice and the POS device, or the whole process?
Ok then how does the POS device get approval for the purchase? Is Apple Pay just the connection between the iDevice and the POS device, or the whole process?
NFC can only be used between idevices and POS during transactions. POS verification of token code from idevice by some mean I don't know...either the code was pre-authorized by the bank or authorized with internet connection to POS during transactions.
What for? What does the ability to make phone calls without an Internet connection do to make a Google Wallet transaction work when you have PIN expiration set to Never?
Try it and let me know. According to some of my Android friends, no network, no Google Wallet worked on their phones.
I didn't say it was a requirement, but it can also not be said that it's never needed.
It can be said it's never needed, and you were very clear on the necessity aspect for ?Pay. I'm saying it's used because it's convenient, just as Ethernet can be used to connect a Mac to a network it's not a requirement to be used to connect to the Internet. You can go the entire life of your Mac without ever needing to plug in an ethernet cable. Even NFC isn't needed for every ?Pay transaction, but NFC is needed for setting up ?Pay due to the secure element.
It can be said it's never needed, and you were very clear on the necessity aspect for ?Pay. I'm saying it's used because it's convenient, just as Ethernet can be used to connect a Mac to a network it's not a requirement to be used to connect to the Internet. You can go the entire life of your Mac without ever needing to plug in an ethernet cable. Even NFC isn't needed for every ?Pay transaction, but NFC is needed for setting up ?Pay due to the secure element.
I don’t think I ever insisted on its necessity. My first posts were questions on the matter. However I do know for a fact that many POS devices work using DSL, and not just mom and pop shops but major retailers.
I don’t think I ever insisted on its necessity. My first posts were questions on the matter.
Below, sounds insistent to me, and also moves your questions into statements of necessity by your inclusion of "My point is that.." when I answered your query.
"My point is that Apple Pay eventually needs an internet connection."
However I do know for a fact that many POS devices work using DSL, and not just mom and pop shops but major retailers
Yes, as previously mentioned it's cost effective to have the same connection you use for Internet access be the same connection you use for verifying transactions securely, but remember that CC transactions were authenticated on the spot long before these stores had Internet connections.
Below, sounds insistent to me, and also moves your questions into statements of necessity by your inclusion of "My point is that.." when I answered your query.
"My point is that Apple Pay eventually needs an internet connection."
Yes, as previously mentioned it's cost effective to have the same connection you use for Internet access be the same connection you use for verifying transactions securely, but remember that CC transactions were authenticated on the spot long before these stores had Internet connections.
I'll concede that one. Many old CC transactions were done on faith, and if there was any doubt then the vendor called the CC company for authentication.
The consumer using Apple Pay on their iPhone (or Apple Watch in the future) will not need an internet connection while on the plane to make purchases.
The JetBlue iPads that are making the sale will most likely be using an internet connection to verify the purchase so it can go through. I suppose they could be using some older connection type over satellite or radio waves, but they will have to somehow be talking back to a processing center to process the transaction and make sure that it goes through.
The days of charging something to a credit card without making sure the card is valid are behind us. Sellers now days rely on either an internet, satellite, or phone connection back to a processing center to run the card before they approve the transaction. They don't bust out the old carbon copy slide imprinter any more.
The consumer using Apple Pay on their iPhone (or Apple Watch in the future) will not need an internet connection while on the plane to make purchases.
The JetBlue iPads that are making the sale will most likely be using an internet connection to verify the purchase so it can go through. I suppose they could be using some older connection type over satellite or radio waves, but they will have to somehow be talking back to a processing center to process the transaction and make sure that it goes through.
The days of charging something to a credit card without making sure the card is valid are behind us. Sellers now days rely on either an internet, satellite, or phone connection back to a processing center to run the card before they approve the transaction. They don't bust out the old carbon copy slide imprinter any more.
So effectively, the consumer will need an Internet connection! Maybe not directly, but if the plane's internet connection goes down, then no Apple Pay.
Apple Pay will realistically need an Internet connection for all transactions, as no reputable merchant would not check the status of the card at the time of the transaction. For low value transactions, it's conceivable that a merchant could accept payments if the connection went down, though highly unlikely.
So effectively, the consumer will need an Internet connection! Maybe not directly, but if the plane's internet connection goes down, then no Apple Pay.
Apple Pay will realistically need an Internet connection for all transactions, as no reputable merchant would not check the status of the card at the time of the transaction. For low value transactions, it's conceivable that a merchant could accept payments if the connection went down, though highly unlikely.
No, the consumer does not need an internet connection (or any other type of connection) at all. The consumer can put their phone in airplane mode, shutting off all cellular, bluetooth, and WiFi signals and Apple Pay will still work fine for them. The consumer will not need to buy WiFi service on their flight, or even hook up to the planes WiFi if it is free. The only part of Apple Pay that a consumer needs a connection for is adding a new payment card.
The merchant however may not be able to make the sale, or choose not to make the sale if they lose their connection. That would be true for Apple Pay, Google Wallet, or regular credit card swipe payments. If the merchant does not have a connection to their credit processor they may choose to not allow any sales other than cash, or they may choose to allow sales taking on the risk themselves that they might not go through later.
The only person that needs any kind of connection is the merchant. This is no different for being in a plane than it is on the ground or at sea.
Comments
That usually happens with an intermediary. Regardless, none of that requires an Internet connection or free WiFi for passengers, which is why a plane can offer no WiFi and still allow ?Pay payments to be made during a flight.
I wasn't referring to the passengers getting Internet, I was opposing the viewpoint that Apple Pay doesn’t need an Internet connection ever.
AND IT DOESN'T!
Which is 100% of the time.
Wrong. You can get receipt later when your iDevice's reconnected to the network. I bought soda from vending machine using Apple Pay with no cell and network connection multiple times from my company break rooms. No problem at all.
Hmm...this is the the Google Wallet FAQ on their site:
"Unlock the app" with internet connection in Google's words means authorizing based on information stored in their server.
So not one single vendor uses the Internet to approve transactions?
What for? What does the ability to make phone calls without an Internet connection do to make a Google Wallet transaction work when you have PIN expiration set to Never?
Ok then how does the POS device get approval for the purchase? Is Apple Pay just the connection between the iDevice and the POS device, or the whole process?
I already said it's used, because it's cheap and convenient. What you failed to understand is that it's not a requirement.
Ok then how does the POS device get approval for the purchase? Is Apple Pay just the connection between the iDevice and the POS device, or the whole process?
NFC can only be used between idevices and POS during transactions. POS verification of token code from idevice by some mean I don't know...either the code was pre-authorized by the bank or authorized with internet connection to POS during transactions.
What for? What does the ability to make phone calls without an Internet connection do to make a Google Wallet transaction work when you have PIN expiration set to Never?
Try it and let me know. According to some of my Android friends, no network, no Google Wallet worked on their phones.
Then show me that Google is lying.
I didn't say it was a requirement, but it can also not be said that it's never needed.
It can be said it's never needed, and you were very clear on the necessity aspect for ?Pay. I'm saying it's used because it's convenient, just as Ethernet can be used to connect a Mac to a network it's not a requirement to be used to connect to the Internet. You can go the entire life of your Mac without ever needing to plug in an ethernet cable. Even NFC isn't needed for every ?Pay transaction, but NFC is needed for setting up ?Pay due to the secure element.
I don’t think I ever insisted on its necessity. My first posts were questions on the matter. However I do know for a fact that many POS devices work using DSL, and not just mom and pop shops but major retailers.
Below, sounds insistent to me, and also moves your questions into statements of necessity by your inclusion of "My point is that.." when I answered your query.
Yes, as previously mentioned it's cost effective to have the same connection you use for Internet access be the same connection you use for verifying transactions securely, but remember that CC transactions were authenticated on the spot long before these stores had Internet connections.
I'll concede that one. Many old CC transactions were done on faith, and if there was any doubt then the vendor called the CC company for authentication.
The consumer using Apple Pay on their iPhone (or Apple Watch in the future) will not need an internet connection while on the plane to make purchases.
The JetBlue iPads that are making the sale will most likely be using an internet connection to verify the purchase so it can go through. I suppose they could be using some older connection type over satellite or radio waves, but they will have to somehow be talking back to a processing center to process the transaction and make sure that it goes through.
The days of charging something to a credit card without making sure the card is valid are behind us. Sellers now days rely on either an internet, satellite, or phone connection back to a processing center to run the card before they approve the transaction. They don't bust out the old carbon copy slide imprinter any more.
So effectively, the consumer will need an Internet connection! Maybe not directly, but if the plane's internet connection goes down, then no Apple Pay.
Apple Pay will realistically need an Internet connection for all transactions, as no reputable merchant would not check the status of the card at the time of the transaction. For low value transactions, it's conceivable that a merchant could accept payments if the connection went down, though highly unlikely.
So effectively, the consumer will need an Internet connection! Maybe not directly, but if the plane's internet connection goes down, then no Apple Pay.
Apple Pay will realistically need an Internet connection for all transactions, as no reputable merchant would not check the status of the card at the time of the transaction. For low value transactions, it's conceivable that a merchant could accept payments if the connection went down, though highly unlikely.
No, the consumer does not need an internet connection (or any other type of connection) at all. The consumer can put their phone in airplane mode, shutting off all cellular, bluetooth, and WiFi signals and Apple Pay will still work fine for them. The consumer will not need to buy WiFi service on their flight, or even hook up to the planes WiFi if it is free. The only part of Apple Pay that a consumer needs a connection for is adding a new payment card.
The merchant however may not be able to make the sale, or choose not to make the sale if they lose their connection. That would be true for Apple Pay, Google Wallet, or regular credit card swipe payments. If the merchant does not have a connection to their credit processor they may choose to not allow any sales other than cash, or they may choose to allow sales taking on the risk themselves that they might not go through later.
The only person that needs any kind of connection is the merchant. This is no different for being in a plane than it is on the ground or at sea.