For Apple's revamped photo experience to work, iCloud changes are needed

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  • Reply 121 of 161
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    First of all, you're either a bald faced liar, or criminally ignorant about OSX. I'm running Yosemite, and have image capture open right now. It never went anywhere, not for a second. So either you're making shit up to enhance your argument, or you're deeply ignorant as to make everything else in your posts completely invalid. What made you think image capture was gone, and why wouldn't you spend 1 second checking before making that claim? 

     

    The rest of your post is a mess, and completely besides the point. In 2011, the first thing SJ stated when introducing iCloud is that they're not interested in making a "harddrive in the cloud", like everyone else was doing. By design, the focus was on tight integration with Apple hardware, services, and apps, as well as syncing. iCloud was meant to be the backend to get your content seamlessly everywhere, within the apps themselves, without going back to the archaic model of the filesystem. You're bitching that iCloud isn't multiplatform?  Why would Apple be interested in doing that, and why the hell would Apple waste its time cloning what everyone else has? All these services (dropbox, google drive, onedrive) are multi-platform, yet you want Apple to offer the exact same service with no differentiation. Point being?

     

    You're also lying (or again, criminally ignorant) about how you can't access iCloud on a chromebook. iCloud Drive is available from any web browser. So is almost every feature of iCloud, including photos. Small detail, I know. You really are confused. 

     

    iCloud's entire purpose and design has flown so far beyond your head, and your comparisons make it clear you're unable to rationally assess it. It's now gaining more traditional filesystem features, but that was never its focus.

     

    Picasa? Google hasn't updated that application in ages. I know, I use it. Oh, and can Picasa be setup to auto-download (or even show) photos taken with your phone? Nope, but make sure to leave that out of your comparison too. You're stuck using a shitty web-view and loading every photo from a browser if you want to access anything in Google+

     

    You're free to use any of the other 67,982 services on your Apple devices if all you care about is online file storage. Noone is stopping you. The fact is, you can use every single service you mentioned on an iPhone, so you're missing nothing. But your deceit, lies, and ignorance- and pretending to ignore all of iCloud's other exclusive features, is pretty reprehensible. 


    Some points to your feedback:

    1. I want a HD in the cloud. I want to dump whatever there, like books, and be able to access them (via GoodReader). I want a file system view like Google Drive.

    2. How do I access my iCloud photos from a Chromebook? Oh, I can't?

    3. I just logged into iCloud. It says my browser isn't fully supported.

    4. you don't know how I use Picasa. I use it in conjunction with other programs and it works perfect for me. And not locked into iPhoto's library system, which is due to be replace with something else soon).

    5. I use multiple systems and multiple devices. Apple is now becoming too proprietary compared to anyone else in services.

     

    Some of use like the freedom to use whatever device on whatever OS and have it work across platforms. Google and MS do that, along with other companies like Zoho and so on. Why should Apple "almost" be there and come up short? What's wrong with not allowing users to see their files in the cloud like a file system? How hard is it to allow users to see their iCloud photos on other devices other than Apple's devices? What do they have to gain? They lose a lot of customers who want openness.

     

    Sorry you can't appreciate other's views for services.

  • Reply 122 of 161
    pfisher wrote: »
    Some points to your feedback:
    1. I want a HD in the cloud. I want to dump whatever there, like books, and be able to access them (via GoodReader). I want a file system view like Google Drive.

    So you have it with Google Drive. So why complain?
    2. How do I access my iCloud photos from a Chromebook? Oh, I can't?

    Are you implying that when you log in icloud.com from Chromebook that the Photos "app" is uniquely removed from the rest of the iCloud "apps" by Apple without any reason then to give a big FU to Google?
    3. I just logged into iCloud. It says my browser isn't fully supported.

    But that's Apple's fault, not Google fault for forking the WebKit? See, I'm thinking you should take issue with Google.
    4. you don't know how I use Picasa. I use it in conjunction with other programs and it works perfect for me. And not locked into iPhoto's library system, which is due to be replace with something else soon).

    Again, I ask, if you find Picasa to be such a superior solution why are you complaining? Just fucking use Picasa.
    5. I use multiple systems and multiple devices. Apple is now becoming too proprietary compared to anyone else in services.

    OK, now it sounds like you're trolling to suggest that iCloud, now with iCloud Drive, is more proprietary than previous versions of their cloud-based setup. :\
    Some of use like the freedom to use whatever device on whatever OS and have it work across platforms. Google and MS do that, along with other companies like Zoho and so on. Why should Apple "almost" be there and come up short?

    That's Apple, and you damn well that Apple makes their OS with their HW. If you don't want to use iOS on an iPhone then don't buy a fucking iPhone.
    What's wrong with not allowing users to see their files in the cloud like a file system?

    They are allowing that with iCloud Drive, but that isn't exactly a great solution for the majority of users that simply want their files to do what they want them to do. You're probably one of those people that loved how the "open" MP3 players would just load up as a USB drive which would let you copy files into the system that you could then organize and play. You probably liked how MS did photo storage before iPhoto came along. That's fine, no one is saying you aren't allowed to have controls issues, but the majority of people just want their devices to be synced, backed up, and online without having to see folder trees and do complex editing of file data.
    How hard is it to allow users to see their iCloud photos on other devices other than Apple's devices?

    How hard is it for other devices to support open standards in their web browser?
    What do they have to gain?

    Nothing, which is why don't waste time and money supporting both fucked and forked browsers for every potential user in the world. They have iCloud for Windows because Windows is still a huge part of the desktop system.
    They lose a lot of customers who want openness.

    You don't want openness, you want socialism and selfihism. You want Apple to be forced to be supported everywhere you want despite having other alternatives at hand.
    Sorry you can't appreciate other's views for services.

    Your view isn't salient. You keep saying you want openness but Picasa, Google Drive, etc. are not open, just as Google Android is not open. What you're saying is you want Apple to give you control for the sake of having control without any consideration for anything else.. and that's bullshit.
  • Reply 123 of 161
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    So you have it with Google Drive. So why complain?

    Are you implying that when you log in icloud.com from Chromebook that the Photos "app" is uniquely removed from the rest of the iCloud "apps" by Apple without any reason then to give a big FU to Google?

    But that's Apple's fault, not Google fault for forking the WebKit? See, I'm thinking you should take issue with Google.

    Again, I ask, if you find Picasa to be such a superior solution why are you complaining? Just fucking use Picasa.

    OK, now it sounds like you're trolling to suggest that iCloud, now with iCloud Drive, is more proprietary than previous versions of their cloud-based setup. image

    That's Apple, and you damn well that Apple makes their OS with their HW. If you don't want to use iOS on an iPhone then don't buy a fucking iPhone.

    They are allowing that with iCloud Drive, but that isn't exactly a great solution for the majority of users that simply want their files to do what they want them to do. You're probably one of those people that loved how the "open" MP3 players would just load up as a USB drive which would let you copy files into the system that you could then organize and play. You probably liked how MS did photo storage before iPhoto came along. That's fine, no one is saying you aren't allowed to have controls issues, but the majority of people just want their devices to be synced, backed up, and online without having to see folder trees and do complex editing of file data.

    How hard is it for other devices to support open standards in their web browser?

    Nothing, which is why don't waste time and money supporting both fucked and forked browsers for every potential user in the world. They have iCloud for Windows because Windows is still a huge part of the desktop system.

    You don't want openness, you want socialism and selfihism. You want Apple to be forced to be supported everywhere you want despite having other alternatives at hand.

    Your view isn't salient. You keep saying you want openness but Picasa, Google Drive, etc. are not open, just as Google Android is not open. What you're saying is you want Apple to give you control for the sake of having control without any consideration for anything else.. and that's bullshit.

     

    Apples just limited for a lot of users, and that's their business. They have their limited iCloud strategy (which is well behind everybody else) and that's their business model. Just shows that MS is a powerhouse at getting stuff done (that's different than getting it right).

     

    People should use what they like.

    Forums should be a dialogue to discuss the positives and negatives of technology and other topics.

     

    I see people on Appleinsider feel they are "objective" and are not.

    They also think they have thought their point out, but have become selective about what they define as "iCloud" or whatever.

    Instead of a healthy discussion, it's more of people getting bent out of shape and getting upset and offended.

  • Reply 124 of 161

    OneDrive and Google Drive are vastly better than iCloud.

     

    You have the perfect services like apps and a file system access. It's cheap and you can locate all of your stuff and save it there.

     

    Apple? Disjointed. Pictures are in one place and the app drive portion: limited only to iCloud apps and photos for iCloud only works on iOS. And Apple is a lot more expensive in wanting you to spend a lot more than you want to (upselling, like they do on their 64 and 128 GB phones)

     

    I would say that strategy does not work for at least 50% of users. or 75%?

     

    So what about those users like myself that want file systems? We have our iPhotos with limited access, we have our iCloud apps, then we have our 3rd party (OneDrive / Google) we go to - or we just pass on Apple services.

     

    It's unfortunately.

  • Reply 125 of 161
    pfisher wrote: »
    Apples just limited for a lot of users…

    And all the others are also limited for a lot of users. Your point?
  • Reply 126 of 161
    pfisher wrote: »
    OneDrive and Google Drive are vastly better than iCloud.

    Apple offers some vastly better solutions for the cloud than either MS or Google.

    You have the perfect services like apps and a file system.

    Yeah, nothing says perfect like a consumer electronic in 2015 that requires the typical user to go manually manage permissions and nested folders on a pocketable device though a web browser¡
  • Reply 127 of 161
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,293member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    So you have it with Google Drive. So why complain?
    Are you implying that when you log in icloud.com from Chromebook that the Photos "app" is uniquely removed from the rest of the iCloud "apps" by Apple without any reason then to give a big FU to Google?
    But that's Apple's fault, not Google fault for forking the WebKit? See, I'm thinking you should take issue with Google.
    Again, I ask, if you find Picasa to be such a superior solution why are you complaining? Just fucking use Picasa.
    OK, now it sounds like you're trolling to suggest that iCloud, now with iCloud Drive, is more proprietary than previous versions of their cloud-based setup. :\
    That's Apple, and you damn well that Apple makes their OS with their HW. If you don't want to use iOS on an iPhone then don't buy a fucking iPhone.
    They are allowing that with iCloud Drive, but that isn't exactly a great solution for the majority of users that simply want their files to do what they want them to do. You're probably one of those people that loved how the "open" MP3 players would just load up as a USB drive which would let you copy files into the system that you could then organize and play. You probably liked how MS did photo storage before iPhoto came along. That's fine, no one is saying you aren't allowed to have controls issues, but the majority of people just want their devices to be synced, backed up, and online without having to see folder trees and do complex editing of file data.
    How hard is it for other devices to support open standards in their web browser?
    Nothing, which is why don't waste time and money supporting both fucked and forked browsers for every potential user in the world. They have iCloud for Windows because Windows is still a huge part of the desktop system.
    You don't want openness, you want socialism and selfihism. You want Apple to be forced to be supported everywhere you want despite having other alternatives at hand.
    Your view isn't salient. You keep saying you want openness but Picasa, Google Drive, etc. are not open, just as Google Android is not open. What you're saying is you want Apple to give you control for the sake of having control without any consideration for anything else.. and that's bullshit.

    That's just quite nuts.

    The guy wants the integrated services on his phone to work as well as other non integrated services, and to work cross platform and he's a commie.
  • Reply 128 of 161
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,293member
    slurpy wrote: »
    Apple is taking too much money out of our economy? Wow, that's a fucking new one, considering Apple is the biggest taxpayer in the US, and contributes massive amounts of $$ to the economy. How the **** are they "taking it out"? Cause they manufacture in China? That money was never in this economy in the first place, so they didn't "take it out". 

    God this thread is mind-numbing. 

    Also love the other comment that "Apple and free never go together". Yeah, it's not like Apple made OSX, iWork, and iCloud free in the past couple years, when these were all previously paid services. Nope. EVERY FUCKING THING MUST BE FREE!!

    Apple is commie now?

    I mean you are arguing against yourself there. If they can make previous paid for services free, why not make the (existing) free storage a bit bigger.
  • Reply 129 of 161
    5 GB per device would prevent the vast majority of customers from ever having to make any adjustments. If they provide that and then have additional storage advertised and explained during the optional iCloud Photo Library activation I think the model would be viable for the next several years. Alternately, they could charge separately for iCloud Photo Library and provide unlimited storage.
  • Reply 130 of 161
    asdasd wrote: »
    That's just quite nuts.

    The guy wants the integrated services on his phone to work as well as other non integrated services, and to work cross platform and he's a commie.

    Commie? I made no mention of Communism. I made a mention of what he wants Apple to be to suit his specific wishes.
  • Reply 131 of 161

    Here is what cloud should mean:

     

    You can access any file you backup to the cloud that you can access from any device. And you and create documents on any device from that service (and do save as to any file format). And it be cheap and not an upsell. And those files you create (along with your backups of files and pictures) available in one place.

     

    Google and MS offer this and it is quite awesome. Apple only hurts itself by being disjointed and limited in this sense.

     

    Apple used to be about ease of use (use across platforms? non-limited cloud service?).

     

    When will they change cloud again? When will they confuse uses again? Google made it simple once and seemingly forever with drive and appsf for their office product. MS did the same. Live365 nailed it the first time and did it right like Google. When will Apple change and confuse people again or only some people know about the changes (again) and there is further self-inflicted confusion?

     

    I would go as far to say that Eddie Cue doesn't know half of what to do to run a division/service of Apple. He doesn't have that touch to stay in touch with what keeps Apple simple. Steve generally kept it very simple. That was a key ingredient to the Apple success.

  • Reply 132 of 161
    arlorarlor Posts: 496member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    Irs has never claimed that. Apple is one of the largest US taxpayers if not the. Congress is just pissed about foreign earned money being held offshore.

     

    Gah, you're right. I botched my (sarcastic) joke. 

  • Reply 133 of 161
    That's a silly idea. The whole concept is to be able to store more than your device itself allows!
    And what about people owning multiple devices? If my iMac holds 3tb, but my iPhone 32gb, what will my free storage be?


    You lost me at the point you said that 5gb for free should force users to only be able to upload images of a certain size as well as movies under 15mins (which is fair).

    Instead - Apple should have a simple, single back up solution that includes photos that is the exact same size as the iPhone you purchase.

    Got a new 32gb iPhone? Perfect - you get 32gb iCloud back up space for free. If you hit the limit of backup space you also hot the limit of what you can store on your phone anyway. The upgrade path isn't more cloud storage - it's buying a bigger phone. Hit the wall on the 32gb phone? Upgrade to the 64gb, get 64gb cloud storage. And so on.

    It's completely transparent and just works. The easily understood physical storage on the phone is linked to the abstract concept of cloud storage in the simplest of terms. It's a 1-1 solution. Apple gets a highly profitable upgrade path, and users that are happier.
  • Reply 134 of 161
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Why would Apple need AeroFS at all? They already have the mechanics in place with Back to My Mac, which allows you to connect directly to another Apple device without needing to go through a cloud-based storage, but still uses a server in order to connect the devices via the account holder's credentials.
    I don't want the ability to connect directly. I want iCloud to handle the syncing, but not store the data. Does Back to Mac do that?
  • Reply 135 of 161
    As a few have mentioned.

    5gig per Apple ID is insulting when you have an iPhone, 2 iPads and a Mac. If I bought the cheapest on contract iPhone and that was it I would get 5gig. So it evidently is included in the price, so where's all my other 5 gig's I paid for.

    I have iTunes Match, it is great and I use it ALL the time. I also back up everything onto an external drive once every few months for I do not trust anymore having already lost a few songs bought on iTunes due to them being "no longer available"

    The photo/stream/icloud/drive issue is a total disaster and separate to the issue of backup. I have concluded that it is such a freaking mess that I just want to disable it.

    I get that notionally it is cool and it would be IF IT ACTUALLY SYNCED but as it turns out the photos just end up copied all over the place forcing deletion over and over again. Worse everything gets copied, not just photos, any little graphic I pull off the web, or screen grab, all copied everywhere.

    I rarely get confused or concerned with tech but since the days of iPhoto and its mystery land of folders inside a container have lead to ZERO control over what is happening and Photostreamcloudrive is that times 27.

    Whoever is in charge of the photos management needs to get Scott Forstalled by Tim Cook
  • Reply 136 of 161
    ash471ash471 Posts: 705member
    slurpy wrote: »
    iCloud is a backup and syncing service. And you could have easily restored your contacts by restoring your phone from a backup from the night before, or whenever the last backup was. Your post is false and invalid. So should iCloud create a separate backup of everything on your phone every time a change is made? I don't get what you expect. Nothing is "f'd up". The situation you just described, with the contacts being "wiped" because a new device is added, is also bullshit. Clearly you're leaving out part of the story, as that would not happen (I've added dozens of new devices to my account over the years, and not once has a contact been deleted". It's also negligence on your part, since exporting contacts once in a while (ie. once every 5 years) is a couple taps away. I do that once in a while, even though I've never had an issue- cause it's the smart and cautious thing to do.

    Except that you're wrong. iCloud does not back up your contacts, or at least it didn't in December 2014. I got to a very high level in Apple technical service and the guy acknowledged this was a problem. Contacts aren't backed up because they are an iCloud service. The backup only backs up the data not on iCloud.
    And yes, of course I tried to restore from backup. Duh.
    To be fair, we don't really know how the contacts got deleted. The syncing with the new device is just a guess. However, I had over 400 contacts and if it wasn't a syncing problem I would have to "accidentally" delete 400 contacts one by one.
    And who do you think you are telling me my post is false and invalid. You think because it didn't happen to you it didn't happen?
  • Reply 137 of 161
    ash471 wrote: »
    I don't want the ability to connect directly. I want iCloud to handle the syncing, but not store the data. Does Back to Mac do that?

    1) Connecting to you stored files is now an option in Yosemite's Finder, as well as at least some limited access on icloud.com.

    2) To do the restore if you're starting device over from scratch these backups of your settings, bookmarks, contacts, etc. do need to be stored on their server.

    3) Back to My Mac allows you to access your actual Mac via the Finder as a remotely shared drive, and (I think) Remote Desktop without having to remember any IP addresses. It's pretty simple so long as you have your home router setup proper for it, which is easy with an AirPort router.
  • Reply 138 of 161
    ash471 wrote: »
    Except that you're wrong. iCloud does not back up your contacts, or at least it didn't in December 2014. I got to a very high level in Apple technical service and the guy acknowledged this was a problem. Contacts aren't backed up because they are an iCloud service. The backup only backs up the data not on iCloud.
    And yes, of course I tried to restore from backup. Duh.
    To be fair, we don't really know how the contacts got deleted. The syncing with the new device is just a guess. However, I had over 400 contacts and if it wasn't a syncing problem I would have to "accidentally" delete 400 contacts one by one.

    That makes no sense. When you backup your device to iCloud or iTunes, it includes all your Contact data.
  • Reply 139 of 161
    ash471ash471 Posts: 705member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    1) Connecting to you stored files is now an option in Yosemite's Finder, as well as at least some limited access on icloud.com.

    2) To do the restore if you're starting device over from scratch these backups of your settings, bookmarks, contacts, etc. do need to be stored on their server.

    3) Back to My Mac allows you to access your actual Mac via the Finder as a remotely shared drive, and (I think) Remote Desktop without having to remember any IP addresses. It's pretty simple so long as you have your home router setup proper for it, which is easy with an AirPort router.
    Directly connecting is a lame ass way to access files. It requires that both computers be on and connected at the same time. Dropbox and AeroFS are a decade ahead of Apple. How can a company so good at hardware suck sooo bad at software. It's not rocket science. F'ing copy DropBox. That's what AeroFS did. And it works great.
  • Reply 140 of 161
    ash471 wrote: »
    Directly connecting is a lame ass way to access files. It requires that both computers be on and connected at the same time. Dropbox and AeroFS are a decade ahead of Apple. How can a company so good at hardware suck sooo bad at software. It's not rocket science. F'ing copy DropBox. That's what AeroFS did. And it works great.


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